Am 07.06.2010 16:42, schrieb Darren New:
> scott wrote:
>> which I guess is around a 4 second gap.
>
> Four seconds *is* tailgating at any speed where you're worried about
> going faster.

Even at 150 km/h, four seconds is still a distance of 167 m - more than 
twice the distance at which you can be fined in Germany.

That's surely not enough space to come to a standstill, but hey - the 
car in front of you would need some distance to slow down to zero, too. 
And even if the car ahead of you should slow down extremely rapidly by 
doing somersaults or some such, 4 seconds gives you plenty of time not 
only to slam the brakes to slow down a good deal, but also to look, 
think and take evasive maneuvers without endangering following traffic.

(And if you're woried about lane hoggers, there's a definite given that 
the slow lane will be unoccupied at that time & space.)

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On 6/8/2010 6:51 AM, clipka wrote:

>
> Overtaking on the right is a no-go, obviously considered worse than lane
> hogging: While overtaking on the right is bound to cost 100,- EUR over
> here, lane hogging (and slow overtaking) is "only" 80,- EUR.


I take it by your description Germany drives on the right side of the 
road, similar to the U.S.

I knew someone who was in the military and stationed in Germany who 
after several failed attempts finally got a license to drive. He said 
their standards for drivers is way above what they require over here.

Of course in the state I'm in once you've got a drivers license from the 
state, that's pretty much it. You're never really required to take a 
test (unless you're under psychiatric care.. I know this firsthand, 
don't ask... Though I did discover that I actually can parallel park 
perfectly, and I scored 100% on the written portion... even the 
meaningless statistics. I remember the DPS employ's look of shock when 
she offered me a few minutes to study the manual and I declined)

-- 
~Mike

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On 6/8/2010 3:16 AM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> "scott"<sco### [at] scottcom>  wrote:
>>> As an aside, on the few occasions I've driven in the US, I was amazed how
>>> short
>>> the acceleration/deceleration lanes were for exits... this was in the
>>> MA/NH area
>>> so I don't know if it's the same everywhere. Our slips roads in the UK are
>>> often
>>> 3x as long!
>>
>> Ditto here in Germany, very short compared to UK. Also the off-ramps
>> suddenly go into a very tight corner which you can only take at 30 mph or
>> so.
>>
>> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:
>>
>> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=48.138643,11.397221&spn=0.00552,0.01074&t=k&z=17
>
> Eek. Compare that with this, a fairly typical junction on the M40:
>
>
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.739759,-1.095693&spn=0.009527,0.01929&z=16
>

Wow ....

This is pretty typical around here ...

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=33.004048,-96.732334&spn=0.006694,0.013937&t=k&z=17

That is also the interchange around where people use the acceleration 
lane as a passing lane.


-- 
~Mike

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Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow ....

Wow good or wow bad? ;-)

> This is pretty typical around here ...
>
>
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=33.004048,-96.732334&spn=0.006694,0.013937&t=k&z=17
>
> That is also the interchange around where people use the acceleration
> lane as a passing lane.

Ahyes, that's a bit different to what I've seen, looks like there's a continuous
acceleration lane between those on/off ramps? No wonder people are cheeky with
that. We've got some of those over here too, and yes, people often use them as
passing lanes. Now where's that laser? :)

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And lo On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 09:26:53 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scottcom> did  
spake thusly:

> (Note left/right here is for driving on the right, for driving on the  
> left countries reverse the left/rights).
>
> Here we have two important rules for multi-lane roads, one is that you  
> should only move out to the left to overtake someone, and secondly you  
> are not allowed to pass anyone on the right side (there are some  
> exceptions for queues etc).  I know it's not like this in all countries.

Just as a note this is referred to as overtaking on the left in the UK and  
is not prohibited by law. You'd advised not to do it on motorways unless  
in congested traffic otherwise you should only do so if the car in front  
is signaling to turn right and there's room to do so.

For multi-lane carriageways you're advised to stay in the left-hand lane  
unless turning or overtaking and should return to your original lane when  
the maneuver is complete, but again this is not prohibited law.

You can't be charged with overtaking on the left, but you could be charged  
with driving in an unsafe or reckless manner.

> As anyone who has driven probably knows already, the problem comes when  
> someone stays in the left lane when they are not overtaking anyone and  
> you want to go faster than them.  What are you meant to do if you are  
> behind them in this situation?  What if you are directly behind in the  
> same lane, or what if you approach them in the right lane?
<snip>

> What do you do?

I overtake them, might wake them up to the fact they should have switched  
back to the correct lane.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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clipka wrote:
> Even at 150 km/h, four seconds is still a distance of 167 m - more than 
> twice the distance at which you can be fined in Germany.

So going substantially faster than any road in the USA allows, you think you 
can stop your car in 4 seconds?

> That's surely not enough space to come to a standstill, but hey - the 
> car in front of you would need some distance to slow down to zero, too. 

Here's the problem with that: The guy in 5 in front of you needs five 
seconds to stop and only has four. Now the guy 4 in front of you has only 
three seconds to stop. And the guy three in front of you has only 2 seconds 
to stop. Etc.  This is how you get 300 car pile-ups.


But yeah, if you're going that fast, it's a lot of distance. Just don't get 
distracted for a second.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Fair enough, but most of the exits I was thinking of were in untouched
> countryside, and, as Scott says of some of his German exits, terminated by sharp
> corners!

Funny enough, there's a stretch of freeway in Pennsylvania that goes about 
75 miles with no exits. There are ramps, but the ramps are all walled off at 
the bottom.

It seems the government built the expressway, then came along to build the 
ramps and surface roads, and the farmers pointed out they had made a deal 
generations ago with the government that prevented the government from 
confiscating their land for public purposes.

It's definitely creepy, and you do *not* want to accidentally get on the 
expressway, unless you like driving 150 miles out of your way.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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scott wrote:
> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:

This is the one I was talking about, which is actually quite untypical:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=san+diego+ca,+rt+52+and+rt+5&sll=32.729169,-117.138119&sspn=0.040723,0.057077&ie=UTF8&hq=rt+52+and+rt+5&hnear=San+Diego,+CA&ll=32.839329,-117.234571&spn=0.002542,0.003567&t=k&z=18


It wouldn't be quite so bad except it's uphill, people on the main road 
(North/South) are trying to exit, and those trees keep you from seeing who 
is coming up the freeway while you're on the ramp. (The ramp in question 
being the westbound 52 ramp merging into the northbound I-5).

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Just for the spectacle, here's a highly atypical UK intersection, the infamous
> 'spaghetti' junction on the M6:

That's pretty typical around here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=san+diego+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.184175,58.447266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Diego,+California&ll=32.758813,-117.203661&spn=0.005089,0.007135&t=k&z=17
-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Exception: When the car in front of you brakes suddenly after cutting 
> directly in front of you, not giving you room to react ....

True. It's sometimes hard to avoid that sort of thing.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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