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Wow. My dad is having computer problems, so I thought I'd just maybe get him
an iPad, something targeted at the person who turns it on a couple hours a
week. Set him up with 3G for $15/month, and he's good to go.
Except ... there's no backup, the disk is tiny, there's no external storage,
there's no printer connection, no scanner connector, no way to put music on
it without buying it, no way to put music you already bought onto it, ...
It really doesn't look like it's targeted at the casual user. It looks like
it's targeted at people who already have a high-end computer and now want
another one, or something.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Darren New wrote:
> no way to put music on it without buying it, no way to put music you
> already bought onto it, ...
You can, but you need a separate computer with iTunes for that.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> You can, but you need a separate computer with iTunes for that.
Well, yes. I'm saying it's not a computer, it's a peripheral. I can't use it
as a replacement computer for someone who is computer illiterate.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote in message
news:4bef1486$1@news.povray.org...
> It really doesn't look like it's targeted at the casual user. It looks
like
> it's targeted at people who already have a high-end computer and now want
> another one, or something.
It's a gadget, a glorified i-pod, not a computer. The brilliance of
marketing of Apple is that you have to buy their entire line of hardware,
software and subscription services to be properly funcational fanboy.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Except ... there's no backup
There is.
> the disk is tiny, there's no external storage,
> there's no printer connection, no scanner connector, no way to put music on
> it without buying it, no way to put music you already bought onto it, ...
The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop. Why are you expecting it to be?
Do you buy an XBox360 and expect it to be a PC? There are similarly many
thing that can be done with a PC that cannot be done with an XBox360.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop. Why are you expecting it to be?
To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell the iPad *is*
being marketed as. What's it supposed to *do*??
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop. Why are you expecting it to be?
> To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell the iPad *is*
> being marketed as. What's it supposed to *do*??
You can play iPhone and iPad games with it, so it's a gaming platform.
There are also tons and tons of other applications for the iPhone, and in
the near future iPad-specific apps. You can also browse the WWW, read
your email, etc. You can buy and read ebooks, as well as iTunes music and
movies.
You can do all of those things (well, except for the ebooks) in an
iPhone/iPod Touch as well, but the iPad has a larger screen and larger
resolution, so things like browsing the WWW and watching movies are much
more comfortable.
So it's a multimedia platform.
--
- Warp
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On 16/05/2010 10:11 AM, Warp wrote:
> You can do all of those things (well, except for the ebooks) in an
> iPhone/iPod Touch as well, but the iPad has a larger screen and larger
> resolution, so things like browsing the WWW and watching movies are much
> more comfortable.
You can read books on the iphone using an app called Stanza and convert
soft books and documents using calibre. Both are free.
Holding my iphone sideways I get 9 lines of text on the screen, it is
usable. I read about 5 books on it before buying a Sony PRS-600. The
iphone app is handy because I have my phone to hand and can dip into a
book in those odd moments when I’ve got nothing to do. ;-)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Warp wrote:
> The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop. Why are you expecting it to be?
I wasn't, really. I was hoping it could serve for one, for sufficiently
modest needs.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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And lo On Sun, 16 May 2010 05:26:53 +0100, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did
spake thusly:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Except ... there's no backup
>
> There is.
>
>> the disk is tiny, there's no external storage,
>> there's no printer connection, no scanner connector, no way to put
>> music on
>> it without buying it, no way to put music you already bought onto it,
>> ...
>
> The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop.
No it's being marketed as "The best way to experience the web, email,
photos, and video. Hands down" So you're going to get people thinking "I
just my laptop to surf the web, get my email and look at my photos. Hey I
can get this cool iPad instead" or even as Darren suggested possibly get
it for someone who does really just do that. At which point you discover
you're tied to using the Apple Store to get your music, you can't import
any of your existing music, you can't get your photos to it unless you use
the optional "iPad Camera Connection Kit" because using a standard USB
slot would be way to easy. You can't backup those photos or email easily.
Yes it's an accessory, but it's not really being marketed as that either.
If they'd proclaimed that it was a big iPhone without the ability to make
calls people would probably grasp that it had limitations, but they're not
so it's a reasonable question to ask and a reasonable thing to expect.
> Do you buy an XBox360 and expect it to be a PC? There are similarly
> many
> thing that can be done with a PC that cannot be done with an XBox360.
Do you buy a PS3 expecting it to be a PC? Yet I can surf the net, view my
photos, get videos, import my CDs, I can hook up a mouse and keyboard and
even print from it. In theory there's nothing stopping anyone from
creating a PS3 word processor or spread sheet that runs off a disc.
Nothing stopping Sony adding such as a permanent app in the same way as
VidZone or iPlayer was added. The lines blur and what defines a product is
less what it can do, but what it can't do. An iPad fulfills the criteria
needed for a casual laptop user until you hit the restrictions.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> No it's being marketed as "The best way to experience the web, email,
> photos, and video. Hands down" So you're going to get people thinking "I
> just my laptop to surf the web, get my email and look at my photos. Hey I
> can get this cool iPad instead" or even as Darren suggested possibly get
> it for someone who does really just do that. At which point you discover
> you're tied to using the Apple Store to get your music, you can't import
> any of your existing music, you can't get your photos to it unless you use
> the optional "iPad Camera Connection Kit" because using a standard USB
> slot would be way to easy. You can't backup those photos or email easily.
You won't be able to use your laptop on a 10-hour flight to watch movies
all the way.
Besides, you can backup the contents of an iPhone/iPad.
> Do you buy a PS3 expecting it to be a PC? Yet I can surf the net, view my
> photos, get videos, import my CDs, I can hook up a mouse and keyboard and
> even print from it. In theory there's nothing stopping anyone from
> creating a PS3 word processor or spread sheet that runs off a disc.
Nothing stops anyone from making a word processor or spread sheet for the
iPad either. In fact, Apple is encouraging people to do so.
--
- Warp
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> The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop. Why are you expecting it to
> be?
I think the issue is that nowadays everyone expects anything the size of the
iPad with a screen to support a number of standard features. These include
a USB socket for connection to external drives: memory sticks, card readers,
cameras, printers etc. TBH this was the first I heard that you cannot
connect any standard external devices to the iPad, I would have assumed it
had a USB socket. It does has WLAN and/or bluetooth right? Can't you just
share folders from another device that way? A bit inconvenient if you have
a passive device like a memory stick or MP3 player.
> Do you buy an XBox360 and expect it to be a PC? There are similarly many
> thing that can be done with a PC that cannot be done with an XBox360.
The PS3 OS actually gives you the option to install a Linux OS if you want,
and the Xbox360 lets you write programs for it using C# and XNA, so it those
respects modern games consoles pretty much are PCs.
Anyway, if I did buy an XBox360 I would expect it to do certain things as
standard, like let me connect a memory stick and listen to the music on it
or look at the photos and videos on it. Or grab files from the network to
show. There's a huge user outcry even when some specific format of video is
not supported by a games console, imagine what would happen if it didn't
support *any* external connection!
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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> the Xbox360 lets you write programs for it using C# and XNA
You make it sound like you cannot write your own programs for the iPhone
or iPad. You can (although in this case it has to be with Objective-C++).
> Anyway, if I did buy an XBox360 I would expect it to do certain things as
> standard, like let me connect a memory stick and listen to the music on it
> or look at the photos and videos on it.
Well, the iPhone is more like an iPod with respect to music (it was even
initially marketed as such, iow. smartphone+iPod) rather than a general-use
portable computer. At first you couldn't even write software for it (but
that changed later).
I suppose the iPad continues the same ideology of being a tight sandbox
which is safe to use and hard to mess up (unlike a laptop, which is simply
a PC/Mac, and which is very easy to mess up).
An iPhone/iPad is not much different from buying a PSP or Nintendo DS.
Those are not even intended to be laptops either.
--
- Warp
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> An iPhone/iPad is not much different from buying a PSP or Nintendo DS.
I think that is the point a lot of people fail to understand, they see the
iPad and assume it will work like some kind of tablet PC, but it doesn't.
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On Tue, 18 May 2010 13:50:58 +0200, scott wrote:
> The PS3 OS actually gives you the option to install a Linux OS if you
> want,
Not anymore, not since the latest firmware update. The option was never
present on the slim models, either.
Jim
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Warp wrote:
> Besides, you can backup the contents of an iPhone/iPad.
But only if you already have a real computer, yes? Or is there something
that will back it up to .mac or some such? (Doesn't Apple have some online
service thingie you can subscribe to?)
> Nothing stops anyone from making a word processor or spread sheet for the
> iPad either. In fact, Apple is encouraging people to do so.
Yeah, great, until you want to print your document out. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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scott wrote:
> and the Xbox360 lets you write programs for it using C# and XNA,
Well, in some sense. XNA is specifically limited to keep you from mucking
with the network and such, so you can really only write games. You can't
contact your own server, you can't get things from the disk to anywhere
else, etc. All you have is one directory, a network connection to other
instances of your game, the controller and speaker and screen. You can't
even send email to the email address of the person logged into your game
while it's running, for example.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Warp wrote:
> I suppose the iPad continues the same ideology of being a tight sandbox
> which is safe to use and hard to mess up (unlike a laptop, which is simply
> a PC/Mac, and which is very easy to mess up).
My disappointment is that you can't easily use an iPad to replace the thing
that's hard to use and easy to mess up.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > Nothing stops anyone from making a word processor or spread sheet for the
> > iPad either. In fact, Apple is encouraging people to do so.
> Yeah, great, until you want to print your document out. :-)
Actually since iPhone programs can make http requests, one could devise
a system where you send the document to your PC via http, and have the PC
print it out... Contrived, but entirely possible.
(Yes, it is entirely possible. Eg. games use this to send high scores
to online servers.)
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>> Nothing stops anyone from making a word processor or spread sheet for the
>>> iPad either. In fact, Apple is encouraging people to do so.
>
>> Yeah, great, until you want to print your document out. :-)
>
> Actually since iPhone programs can make http requests, one could devise
> a system where you send the document to your PC via http, and have the PC
> print it out... Contrived, but entirely possible.
Sure. Which, again, means you need a PC as an adjunct. You could write a
word processor. You can't print it out. You can only send it to someone else
to print it. You wouldn't need http - just email it to the mail account on
your laptop.
And it's certainly not the kind of thing that someone who doesn't even want
a Mac is going to code, is my point.
> (Yes, it is entirely possible. Eg. games use this to send high scores
> to online servers.)
Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing XNA disallows. I don't think
Microsoft wants an XBoxBotNet.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >>> Nothing stops anyone from making a word processor or spread sheet for the
> >>> iPad either. In fact, Apple is encouraging people to do so.
> >
> >> Yeah, great, until you want to print your document out. :-)
> >
> > Actually since iPhone programs can make http requests, one could devise
> > a system where you send the document to your PC via http, and have the PC
> > print it out... Contrived, but entirely possible.
> Sure. Which, again, means you need a PC as an adjunct.
But the point is that you could write your document during a 10-hour
flight and then print it out when you get home... (A laptop won't do,
unless the airplane offers a wall socket you can use to recharge the
battery.)
No, it's not the best way of writing documents, but it's theoretically
possible.
> You could write a
> word processor. You can't print it out. You can only send it to someone else
> to print it. You wouldn't need http - just email it to the mail account on
> your laptop.
I was thinking about an automated system, where you install the word
processor on the iPad and a printing program on the PC, so you can print
by pressing a button on the iPad. Contrived, but possible. :)
> And it's certainly not the kind of thing that someone who doesn't even want
> a Mac is going to code, is my point.
I didn't understand that.
> > (Yes, it is entirely possible. Eg. games use this to send high scores
> > to online servers.)
> Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing XNA disallows. I don't think
> Microsoft wants an XBoxBotNet.
Not supporting online highscores is a big minus for game developers.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> But the point is that you could write your document during a 10-hour
> flight and then print it out when you get home...
Oh, OK.
> (A laptop won't do,
> unless the airplane offers a wall socket you can use to recharge the
> battery.)
They actually usually do, at least if you get out of coach.
Or you lug multiple batteries. :-)
> No, it's not the best way of writing documents, but it's theoretically
> possible.
Or I could take a pencil. ;-)
> I was thinking about an automated system, where you install the word
> processor on the iPad and a printing program on the PC, so you can print
> by pressing a button on the iPad. Contrived, but possible. :)
I suppose it *could* be made easier, yes.
>> And it's certainly not the kind of thing that someone who doesn't even want
>> a Mac is going to code, is my point.
>
> I didn't understand that.
I was being mildly sarcastic, implying that the author of the program would
also be the same user who finds a Mac intimidating and hard to use.
>> Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing XNA disallows. I don't think
>> Microsoft wants an XBoxBotNet.
>
> Not supporting online highscores is a big minus for game developers.
Understand that XNA is the free indy development system. Of course the xbox
supports all that stuff if you sign up with Microsoft and do the legal
paperwork.
I think the latest version has achievements and leaderboards, tho. I haven't
downloaded it, but the online docs included classes with suggestive names.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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And lo On Tue, 18 May 2010 17:12:13 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Warp wrote:
>> Besides, you can backup the contents of an iPhone/iPad.
>
> But only if you already have a real computer, yes? Or is there
> something that will back it up to .mac or some such? (Doesn't Apple have
> some online service thingie you can subscribe to?)
Yeah they have this MobileMe thing at $99/year 20Gb of storage space
including email.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:50:58 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scottcom> did
spake thusly:
>> The iPad is not being marketed as a laptop. Why are you expecting it
>> to be?
>
> I think the issue is that nowadays everyone expects anything the size of
> the iPad with a screen to support a number of standard features. These
> include a USB socket for connection to external drives: memory sticks,
> card readers, cameras, printers etc. TBH this was the first I heard
> that you cannot connect any standard external devices to the iPad, I
> would have assumed it had a USB socket.
It has the optional iPad Camera Connection Kit for only £25. That gives
you two dongles that plug into the Apple connector, one allows you to read
SD cards and the other gives you a USB A slot to connect a camera
directly. Note that firstly that's two connectors they didn't combine it
into just the one dongle; and secondly it doesn't tell you if the USB slot
is powered (judging by the questions and answers on the page the answer is
no it's not). Ah Apple so sleek and well designed ;-)
> It does has WLAN and/or bluetooth right?
Yes
> Can't you just share folders from another device that way? A bit
> inconvenient if you have a passive device like a memory stick or MP3
> player.
"Here" said John, "I've loaded all the presentation files onto this stick
for you to review"
"Ah" I said, "I've only brought my iPad with me. You couldn't email them
all to me could you"
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> no way to put music on it without buying it
Btw, what do you base this on? Does it work differently than the iPhone or
the iPhone Touch? Because in those you can put your own mp3's in the device
to be played normally, without any problems (you have to do it through the
iTunes program, but there's no limitation on what you can put there). I would
be quite surprised if it wasn't the same on the iPad.
--
- Warp
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> into just the one dongle; and secondly it doesn't tell you if the USB
> slot is powered (judging by the questions and answers on the page the
> answer is no it's not). Ah Apple so sleek and well designed ;-)
It's not powered, and it *only* talks to something serving pictures. Want
music on your iPad? Don't consider putting it on an SD chip and importing
it. For that matter, don't consider writing anything to the SD chip either.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> no way to put music on it without buying it
>
> Btw, what do you base this on?
All my complaints were predicated on "without a real computer to connect it
to." You can't import music into the itunes library on the iPad, from what
I can tell. You would have to import it into iTunes on a laptop then sync it
to your iPad.
I would also suspect without evidence that music you bought on the iPad
iTunes client wouldn't sync to any other device, for that matter.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> All my complaints were predicated on "without a real computer to connect it
> to." You can't import music into the itunes library on the iPad, from what
> I can tell. You would have to import it into iTunes on a laptop then sync it
> to your iPad.
You seem to be pretty fixated with this "you need a computer to transfer
any personal data from/to the iPad". Yeah, you do. So what? The iPad is not
a laptop, as has been repeated many times.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> You seem to be pretty fixated with this "you need a computer to transfer
> any personal data from/to the iPad". Yeah, you do. So what?
My original post was along the lines of "My Dad's computer is broken. I was
thinking of buying him an iPad to replace it. That won't work, because he'll
still need a real computer."
Why are you giving me crap for making this observation?
I say "Without a computer, you can't do X." You quote the second half of
the sentence and answer "Well, of course you can, with a computer. Why are
you so down on the iPad?"
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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Warp wrote:
> So it's a multimedia platform.
It's a digital consumption machine.
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> > Nothing stops anyone from making a word processor or spread sheet for
>> > the
>> > iPad either. In fact, Apple is encouraging people to do so.
>
>> Yeah, great, until you want to print your document out. :-)
>
> Actually since iPhone programs can make http requests, one could devise
> a system where you send the document to your PC via http, and have the PC
> print it out... Contrived, but entirely possible.
The Internet Printing Protocol is based on HTTP, and there are printers that
support it directly (but more likely you'd be talking to CUPS or something
like that)...
And iPhone programs can make arbitrary TCP/IP connections anyway.
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On 20/05/2010 7:12 PM, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> So it's a multimedia platform.
>
> It's a digital consumption machine.
It's a $$$ consumption machine. ;-)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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On Thu, 20 May 2010 21:32:56 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 20/05/2010 7:12 PM, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> So it's a multimedia platform.
>>
>> It's a digital consumption machine.
>
> It's a $$$ consumption machine. ;-)
Best answer so far. ;-)
Jim
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On 20/05/2010 10:40 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 20 May 2010 21:32:56 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 20/05/2010 7:12 PM, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>>> Warp wrote:
>>>> So it's a multimedia platform.
>>>
>>> It's a digital consumption machine.
>>
>> It's a $$$ consumption machine. ;-)
>
> Best answer so far. ;-)
>
Cynical, moi? :-D
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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On Fri, 21 May 2010 06:18:46 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 20/05/2010 10:40 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 May 2010 21:32:56 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/05/2010 7:12 PM, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>>>> Warp wrote:
>>>>> So it's a multimedia platform.
>>>>
>>>> It's a digital consumption machine.
>>>
>>> It's a $$$ consumption machine. ;-)
>>
>> Best answer so far. ;-)
>>
>>
> Cynical, moi? :-D
LOL
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