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<rant>
I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
service. Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved them
oodles of $... I suspect they are trying to take my work to a
commercial developer so they can make the $ and throw me away... Very
sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or suffer
a $20k penalty... Ouch!
</rant>
~db
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DungBeatle wrote:
> Very sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
If it makes you feel any better, no one wants a Haskell programmer either.
(Well... actually Well-Typed.com do. But they want somebody who's also a
C expert and a good salesman, so...)
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My condolences, that sucks! You'd think after 21 years they could have
at least waited another two. I assume since you've been doing a good
job for quite some time at the job you'll either be able to get another
or make do with a slightly early retirement, but still, my sympathies.
I'm certainly not looking forward to when I have to worry about that
sort of thing.
DungBeatle wrote:
> <rant>
> I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
> service. Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved them
> oodles of $... I suspect they are trying to take my work to a
> commercial developer so they can make the $ and throw me away... Very
> sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
>
> They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or suffer
> a $20k penalty... Ouch!
>
> </rant>
>
> ~db
>
>
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On 13-5-2010 17:27, DungBeatle wrote:
> <rant>
> I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
> service.
That's not good.
> Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved them
> oodles of $... I suspect they are trying to take my work to a
> commercial developer so they can make the $ and throw me away... Very
> sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
Possibly not no one. Sometimes people do want an experienced senior
programmer.
> They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or suffer
> a $20k penalty... Ouch!
I don't understand that. Is that an anti-competition thing that you can
not work for 2 years in the same line of work after you left? Or
something to do with your pension?
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All great annual reviews! I would have thought they would appreciate
all the extra time I put in FOR FREE. But I think they have ideas of
selling my software commercially and with me there, I'm in the way.
I'll have to do something for income and wait out the last 2 years. I
will get unemployment, but at about 1/4 to 1/3 my original salary...
Sucks..
~db
"Kevin Wampler" <wam### [at] u washingtonedu> wrote in message
news:4bec1ea6$1@news.povray.org...
: My condolences, that sucks! You'd think after 21 years they could
have
: at least waited another two. I assume since you've been doing a
good
: job for quite some time at the job you'll either be able to get
another
: or make do with a slightly early retirement, but still, my
sympathies.
: I'm certainly not looking forward to when I have to worry about that
: sort of thing.
:
:
: DungBeatle wrote:
: > <rant>
: > I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
: > service. Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved
them
: > oodles of $... I suspect they are trying to take my work to a
: > commercial developer so they can make the $ and throw me away...
Very
: > sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
: >
: > They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or
suffer
: > a $20k penalty... Ouch!
: >
: > </rant>
: >
: > ~db
: >
: >
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On Thu, 13 May 2010 09:55:22 -0700, DungBeatle wrote:
> I would have thought they would appreciate all the extra time I put in
> FOR FREE. But I think they have ideas of selling my software
> commercially and with me there, I'm in the way.
IANAL, but you might talk to a lawyer and see if there's something
actionable - even in "at will" states, there are circumstances where one
can win a wrongful termination suit.
Jim
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"andrel" <byt### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
news:4BE### [at] gmailcom...
: On 13-5-2010 17:27, DungBeatle wrote:
: > They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or
suffer
: > a $20k penalty... Ouch!
:
: I don't understand that. Is that an anti-competition thing that you
can
: not work for 2 years in the same line of work after you left? Or
: something to do with your pension?
I can't retire for another 2 years because my retirement plan only
allows me to take my pension without penalty at 59.5 years old. I'm
just turning 57 this year... So they want 20% to allow me to retire
today!
~db
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DungBeatle wrote:
> I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
> service. Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved them
Oh, that sucks. Sorry to hear that.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
news:4bec2f85$1@news.povray.org...
: IANAL, but you might talk to a lawyer and see if there's something
: actionable - even in "at will" states, there are circumstances where
one
: can win a wrongful termination suit.
:
: Jim
Yeah, I'm considering something like that. But it costs $ I don't
really have...
~db
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On 13/05/2010 4:27 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
> <rant>
> I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
> service. Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved them
> oodles of $... I suspect they are trying to take my work to a
> commercial developer so they can make the $ and throw me away... Very
> sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
>
> They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or suffer
> a $20k penalty... Ouch!
>
> </rant>
>
My condolences too. I was made redundant about ten years ago and it was
the best thing that happened to me.
Can you not go independent and work as a freelance developer?
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:4bec1c0f@news.povray.org...
: DungBeatle wrote:
:
: > Very sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
: If it makes you feel any better, no one wants a Haskell programmer
either.
: (Well... actually Well-Typed.com do. But they want somebody who's
also a
: C expert and a good salesman, so...)
What bothers me most is that my ex-supervisor won't tell me what's
happening with the software I created. And all my servers were turned
off so my ex-clients can't access anything. I smell a rat...
~db
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On Thu, 13 May 2010 09:58:52 -0700, DungBeatle wrote:
> Yeah, I'm considering something like that. But it costs $ I don't really
> have...
That's one of the things that "they" count on, I think. You might find a
lawyer who will do a free consultation (many will) to determine if
there's a chance of winning - because it's a situation where they make
money, too, it's in the lawyer's interest to look and see, and many will
do that initial consult at no cost (and get paid from the settlement).
Often times, a settlement can be reached without it going to court as
well.
Jim
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"Stephen" <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote in message
news:4bec3040@news.povray.org...
: My condolences too. I was made redundant about ten years ago and it
was
: the best thing that happened to me.
: Can you not go independent and work as a freelance developer?
: Best Regards,
: Stephen
That's what I'm working on now. I have a lead on a two-month job that
should make up the difference. Then after that? Who knows... It's all
very depressing. No one told me there was even a remote chance that I
was to be laid off. I arrived at work and my keys wouldn't work! All
my servers had been turned off, I'm not even sure if they did it
gracefully. It's as if they didn't trust me? After 21 years of
handling very sensitive data without ever a compromise. Never lost a
byte of data since 1993 when I took over this responsibility.
But yes, I will probably go freelance... I was planning to retire
though, so this really screws up everything!
~db
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On Thu, 13 May 2010 10:00:54 -0700, DungBeatle wrote:
> What bothers me most is that my ex-supervisor won't tell me what's
> happening with the software I created. And all my servers were turned
> off so my ex-clients can't access anything. I smell a rat...
First rule if you want to go down the lawsuit path: document absolutely
*everything*. My wife had to deal with a legal issue several years ago,
and her lawyer advised her that "if it isn't written down, it didn't
happen". Get a notebook and start documenting absolutely *everything*
about the termination.
Jim
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On 5/13/2010 10:27 AM, DungBeatle wrote:
> <rant>
> I can't believe it. I was laid off from my job after 21 years of
> service. Great annual reviews, told my work was wonderful! Saved them
> oodles of $... I suspect they are trying to take my work to a
> commercial developer so they can make the $ and throw me away... Very
> sad... No one wants a 57 year old programmer.. :(
>
> They force me to retire, but I can't do it for 2 more years or suffer
> a $20k penalty... Ouch!
>
> </rant>
Wow... my condolences. :( Such is the way the world is today.
--
~Mike
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DungBeatle wrote:
> Yeah, I'm considering something like that. But it costs $ I don't
> really have...
And if you're in the USA, there's also the age discrimination laws to consider.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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On 13/05/2010 6:04 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
> That's what I'm working on now. I have a lead on a two-month job that
> should make up the difference. Then after that? Who knows...
That's all we contractors know :-(
> It's all
> very depressing. No one told me there was even a remote chance that I
> was to be laid off. I arrived at work and my keys wouldn't work! All
> my servers had been turned off, I'm not even sure if they did it
> gracefully. It's as if they didn't trust me? After 21 years of
> handling very sensitive data without ever a compromise. Never lost a
> byte of data since 1993 when I took over this responsibility.
>
It’s what they do, don’t take it personally (seriously, because that
road leads to bitterness and madness). I’ve actually been escorted off
the premises much to the embarrassment of the person who had to do it
and my annoyance.
Remember this when you’re giving your loyalty again.
> But yes, I will probably go freelance... I was planning to retire
> though, so this really screws up everything!
>
Maybe you will earn enough not to want to retire. :-D
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote in message
news:4bec615a$1@news.povray.org...
: On 13/05/2010 6:04 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
: Remember this when you’re giving your loyalty again.
I'll never give so much again!
~db
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On 14/05/2010 4:26 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
> "Stephen"<mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:4bec615a$1@news.povray.org...
> : On 13/05/2010 6:04 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
> : Remember this when you’re giving your loyalty again.
>
> I'll never give so much again!
>
> ~db
>
>
Funnily enough when you get over it you may find the habit ingrained.
I generally do about two implementations a year and I develop a loyalty
to the people I’m working with but not the implementation partner. I
know that after the back of the project is broken, if they can find one
of their own people to take over, at a lower cost, then that is what
will happen.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> On 14/05/2010 4:26 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
>> "Stephen"<mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:4bec615a$1@news.povray.org...
>> : On 13/05/2010 6:04 PM, DungBeatle wrote:
>> : Remember this when you’re giving your loyalty again.
>>
>> I'll never give so much again!
>>
>> ~db
>>
>>
> Funnily enough when you get over it you may find the habit ingrained.
> I generally do about two implementations a year and I develop a loyalty
> to the people I’m working with but not the implementation partner. I
> know that after the back of the project is broken, if they can find one
> of their own people to take over, at a lower cost, then that is what
> will happen.
>
>
Agreed, out of habit, as you say, or out of a need to contribute in some
meaningful way, yet, also as you say, it will be tempered in some manner.
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On 15/05/2010 6:09 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
>> Funnily enough when you get over it you may find the habit ingrained.
>> I generally do about two implementations a year and I develop a
>> loyalty to the people I’m working with but not the implementation
>> partner. I know that after the back of the project is broken, if they
>> can find one of their own people to take over, at a lower cost, then
>> that is what will happen.
>>
>>
> Agreed, out of habit, as you say, or out of a need to contribute in some
> meaningful way, yet, also as you say, it will be tempered in some manner.
Or out of a feeling of “take the money and run”. :-)
My present contract keeps getting extended month on month. I could
really do with giving it up and taking a break but as the money is OK
and there is little pressure I’ll do the contractor’s thing and keep
accepting. The one think I know is that I won’t be going to New Mexico
next year.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
>> Agreed, out of habit, as you say, or out of a need to contribute in some
>> meaningful way, yet, also as you say, it will be tempered in some manner.
>
> Or out of a feeling of “take the money and run”. :-)
> My present contract keeps getting extended month on month. I could
> really do with giving it up and taking a break but as the money is OK
> and there is little pressure I’ll do the contractor’s thing and keep
> accepting. The one think I know is that I won’t be going to New Mexico
> next year.
>
>
As it happens, here I am at 2am Sunday morning working on PowerPoint
presentations for the class I teach on Monday. I get paid by the hour
for time in the classroom. This time I spend now would be tolerably
classified as 'time given' to the job. A job that has zero security.
But...this time spent: makes the job in the classroom easier, elevates
the quality of my teaching, and elevates the reputation of the program.
Or so I hope. Have I forgotten the bitter lesson learned when the
corporate world gave me the boot? Not sure. I believe I do this more
for myself now, not so to please others. But it is difficult to be
sure. As far as just taking the money? Yes, but the real value of this
gig is the health care benefits. And for that I need to stay around.
The new head of the Taxi & Limousine Commission comes to the school on
Monday presumably to inform himself on the current state of taxi
training. I am being scheduled to teach, rather than other instructors
I am guessing, because of my 'smart room' innovations. The more I
talk about it, the more I am thinking I've been sucked back in :O
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On 16/05/2010 7:30 AM, Jim Charter wrote:
> As it happens, here I am at 2am Sunday morning working on PowerPoint
> presentations for the class I teach on Monday. I get paid by the hour
> for time in the classroom. This time I spend now would be tolerably
> classified as 'time given' to the job. A job that has zero security.
> But...this time spent: makes the job in the classroom easier, elevates
> the quality of my teaching, and elevates the reputation of the program.
> Or so I hope.
Well training is a different kettle of fish. You’re always having to do
work outside working hours. Always improving and preparing.
> Have I forgotten the bitter lesson learned when the
> corporate world gave me the boot? Not sure. I believe I do this more for
> myself now, not so to please others. But it is difficult to be sure.
It is difficult, all those years of giving your all leaves ingrained habits.
> As far as just taking the money? Yes, but the real value of this gig is the
> health care benefits. And for that I need to stay around.
>
Wouldn’t universal health care be better :-P
Sorry I couldn’t resist it. But I don’t want to hijack the thread so
I’ll zip it. :-)
> The new head of the Taxi & Limousine Commission comes to the school on
> Monday presumably to inform himself on the current state of taxi
> training. I am being scheduled to teach, rather than other instructors I
> am guessing, because of my 'smart room' innovations. The more I talk
> about it, the more I am thinking I've been sucked back in :O
It is hard not to be. Especially if you are contentious.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Jim Charter wrote:
> A job that has zero security.
I think you've already answered it. There's a world of difference between
"can you do this work, and we'll pay you if we're successful?" and "Come
work for a salary. Oh sorry, ran out of money, you're not getting your last
month's paycheck."
> The new head of the Taxi & Limousine Commission comes to the school on
> Monday presumably to inform himself on the current state of taxi
> training. I am being scheduled to teach, rather than other instructors
> I am guessing, because of my 'smart room' innovations. The more I talk
> about it, the more I am thinking I've been sucked back in :O
Ah, don't miss the opportunity to network up. You're going to be standing in
front of a fairly powerful person who is likely looking to make some changes
to his organization. Make sure he knows who you are, how to get in touch
with you, and what sort of things you're interested in. It's definitely the
way to get to where you want to be in this world.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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> I can't retire for another 2 years because my retirement plan only
> allows me to take my pension without penalty at 59.5 years old. I'm
> just turning 57 this year... So they want 20% to allow me to retire
> today!
Doesn't your employer give you some form of redundancy pay? In the UK at
least I think you get about 1 weeks pay for every years service you have by
law, and some employers give more than that minimum.
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In my company, it's interesting that there's a certain Project Management
certification one can get. All the people I know personally who have this are
recently retired and/or about to be laid off. On one hand, this unscientific,
fear-based correlation in my head makes me wonder if people taking the time to
get this certification helped get them laid off.
On the other hand, I overheard a quick job interview that happened between
casual friends at a party-- one had started his own company and was hiring
another about to be laid off-- and the main and only criteria that was needed
was this certification.
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Stephen wrote:
> On 16/05/2010 7:30 AM, Jim Charter wrote:
>
>> As it happens, here I am at 2am Sunday morning working on PowerPoint
>> presentations for the class I teach on Monday. I get paid by the hour
>> for time in the classroom. This time I spend now would be tolerably
>> classified as 'time given' to the job. A job that has zero security.
>> But...this time spent: makes the job in the classroom easier, elevates
>> the quality of my teaching, and elevates the reputation of the program.
>> Or so I hope.
>
> Well training is a different kettle of fish. You’re always having to do
> work outside working hours. Always improving and preparing.
>
>> Have I forgotten the bitter lesson learned when the
>> corporate world gave me the boot? Not sure. I believe I do this more for
>> myself now, not so to please others. But it is difficult to be sure.
>
> It is difficult, all those years of giving your all leaves ingrained
> habits.
>
>> As far as just taking the money? Yes, but the real value of this gig
>> is the
>> health care benefits. And for that I need to stay around.
>>
>
>
> Wouldn’t universal health care be better :-P
> Sorry I couldn’t resist it. But I don’t want to hijack the thread so
> I’ll zip it. :-)
>
Briefly, with me you're preaching to the choir. I'm now in NYC but grew
up in Canada. The decision my wife and I made, to change from the plan
we had, quite expensive, but the only one we could qualify for, to the
current plan, completely free but married to a job I must be
'reinstated' to every six months, was an agonizing one. And something
as simple as a change in TLC directors could easily result in no more
job for Jim, and no health care plan at all.
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On 18/05/2010 5:56 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>>
>> Wouldn’t universal health care be better :-P
>> Sorry I couldn’t resist it. But I don’t want to hijack the thread so
>> I’ll zip it. :-)
>>
> Briefly, with me you're preaching to the choir.
I know.
> I'm now in NYC but grew
> up in Canada. The decision my wife and I made, to change from the plan
> we had, quite expensive, but the only one we could qualify for, to the
> current plan, completely free but married to a job I must be
> 'reinstated' to every six months, was an agonizing one. And something as
> simple as a change in TLC directors could easily result in no more job
> for Jim, and no health care plan at all.
Good luck, But at worse you could always go back to driving.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> On 18/05/2010 5:56 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
>> Stephen wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Wouldn’t universal health care be better :-P
>>> Sorry I couldn’t resist it. But I don’t want to hijack the thread so
>>> I’ll zip it. :-)
>>>
>> Briefly, with me you're preaching to the choir.
>
> I know.
:)
>
>> I'm now in NYC but grew
>> up in Canada. The decision my wife and I made, to change from the plan
>> we had, quite expensive, but the only one we could qualify for, to the
>> current plan, completely free but married to a job I must be
>> 'reinstated' to every six months, was an agonizing one. And something as
>> simple as a change in TLC directors could easily result in no more job
>> for Jim, and no health care plan at all.
>
> Good luck, But at worse you could always go back to driving.
>
Man I'm still driving. Took May off but starting June, three days a
week driving, three days teaching.
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On 18/05/2010 10:46 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
>> Good luck, But at worse you could always go back to driving.
>>
> Man I'm still driving. Took May off but starting June, three days a
> week driving, three days teaching.
Getting better :-)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> On 18/05/2010 10:46 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
>>> Good luck, But at worse you could always go back to driving.
>>>
>> Man I'm still driving. Took May off but starting June, three days a
>> week driving, three days teaching.
>
> Getting better :-)
>
yes
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