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...and now let's try that again, without the 3-page psychotic episode at
the end...
It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to
put my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for too
much money.
At this point, I'm pretty upset and frustrated. I'm left once again
wondering just what the hell I need to do to even reach the interview stage.
Given the spectacular lack of available job vacancies, I guess I'm going
to have to try something more drastic. So far I've held off applying to
the likes of Google because 1) I'd have to move to London, and 2) I
don't stand a snowball's change in hell. But I'm running out of options
here, so...
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> It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
> materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to put
> my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for too much
> money.
Why don't you ask them? 28K for someone with a degree and 7 years experience
is not too much IMO.
> Given the spectacular lack of available job vacancies, I guess I'm going
> to have to try something more drastic. So far I've held off applying to
> the likes of Google because 1) I'd have to move to London,
If you only want to work in one particular location in the country then you
just have to wait until something comes up, and then you probably won't even
get an interview (it's unrealistic to expect an interview for every job you
apply for). Obviously if you are willing to relocate to another part of the
country that opens up a massive number of new opportunities, you will surely
find a new job much quicker.
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>> It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
>> materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to
>> put my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for
>> too much money.
>
> Why don't you ask them? 28K for someone with a degree and 7 years
> experience is not too much IMO.
I shouldn't have let them fob me off without a real answer. I'm such a
damned push-over. Trouble is, every time I have to make an actual phone
call, I dissolve into a nervous gibbering wreck. I'm currently sitting
here in one very wet office shirt. (Not that I can do anything about it
now - but seriously, this doesn't look attractive.) Anybody who claims
this stuff gets easier clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.
I'm going to phone them again tomorrow, and hopefully this time I'll
have grown enough of a spine to make them TELL ME what's actually going on.
> If you only want to work in one particular location in the country then
> you just have to wait until something comes up
I've already lowered my standards in the hope of increasing the number
of available jobs. I'm shocked and dissappointed that this has had no
effect at all.
> and then you probably
> won't even get an interview (it's unrealistic to expect an interview for
> every job you apply for).
Not everybody you apply to is going to interview you. But I would
imagine the people who eventually hire you will.
> Obviously if you are willing to relocate to
> another part of the country that opens up a massive number of new
> opportunities, you will surely find a new job much quicker.
At the cost of selling my soul. What a bargin.
Hmm. Spend the rest of my life rotting away in this suck-arse job. Move
to somewhere I hate. Life is so full of choices...
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Invisible wrote:
> ....and now let's try that again, without the 3-page psychotic episode
> at the end...
>
>
>
> It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
> materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to
> put my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for too
> much money.
>
> At this point, I'm pretty upset and frustrated. I'm left once again
> wondering just what the hell I need to do to even reach the interview
> stage.
>
Agencies typically will send only a few CVs as they also operate as a
filtering service for the employer. Also they will get a percentage of
your first year’s salary if they place you there so it is in their
interest to get you more money.
It is OK to ask the agency why your CV was not presented. Tell them that
you need to know in order to present yourself better for other
opportunities. The difficult part is listening and taking in what they
say with the blood pounding in your ears.
My advice is to take what people say here on this newsgroup with a pinch
of salt. As a lot of them are quite successful with a few jobs under
their belts. IMO you need to get more experience of other companies so
go for a rate that you can live with not necessarily the top of the
salary range.
A couple of years ago when I had difficulty finding work. I accepted a
job in Nigeria at a rate in Euros that was only about 60% of what I had
been getting in pounds. Not for the money but to get myself back into
the job market. (Not that I would recommend to anyone going to Nigeria,
you understand.)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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On 23-2-2010 12:54, Invisible wrote:
>
>> Obviously if you are willing to relocate to another part of the
>> country that opens up a massive number of new opportunities, you will
>> surely find a new job much quicker.
>
> At the cost of selling my soul. What a bargain.
>
> Hmm. Spend the rest of my life rotting away in this suck-arse job. Move
> to somewhere I hate. Life is so full of choices...
Move to a place you don't know yet, meet people (even women) you don't
know yet, be happy during the week and visit MK in the weekend and
during holidays and be happy there too. Doesn't sound like a difficult
decision to me. Someday you might go back to MK a rich man,
alternatively stay there and stay poor, also not a difficult decision if
you ask me (which you didn't).
Note that I am not even suggesting to leave the country (BTW you haven't
answered my question about your CV on e-mail, but that is a different
subject).
Also completely aside: have you read Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and
Neil Gaiman?
More to the point: you are ageing everyday. Getting a new job will be
increasingly difficult. But you knew that of course.
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Invisible wrote:
> For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to put my CV forward.
I think you should (a) ask them, (b) insist.
And then send your resume directly to whoever had the job.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
The question in today's corporate environment is not
so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
"what color is your nose?"
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Stephen wrote:
> the job market. (Not that I would recommend to anyone going to Nigeria,
Altho I hear the ministry of finance has a job opening.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
The question in today's corporate environment is not
so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
"what color is your nose?"
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Darren New wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> the job market. (Not that I would recommend to anyone going to Nigeria,
>
> Altho I hear the ministry of finance has a job opening.
>
LMAO
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:37 +0000, Invisible wrote:
> For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to put my CV forward.
Ask them why. Don't assume why.
And don't give up!
Jim
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:46:46 -0800, Darren New wrote:
> And then send your resume directly to whoever had the job.
Yes, I was just going to suggest that as well. It seems Andy knows who
the company is, so he should stop faffing about with employment agencies
and talk directly to the company in question.
Jim
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> At this point, I'm pretty upset and frustrated. I'm left once again
> wondering just what the hell I need to do to even reach the interview stage.
I was able to reach the interview stage quite a few times. I've never got past
it, though. That's why I got a job at the government: if you pass the
technical exam, you're in. No silly dilly-dallying about your life or your
clumsyness.
It gets easier talking in the phone as you age. You realize it's never as
formal and serious as you think it is. Be more of yourself and less of a drone
-- just remember this advice comes from someone who never got past an interview.
:P
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nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I was able to reach the interview stage quite a few times. I've never got past
> it, though. That's why I got a job at the government: if you pass the
> technical exam, you're in. No silly dilly-dallying about your life or your
> clumsyness.
Job interviews are a curious phenomenon. As far as I know, a significant
portion of job interviews being performed out there could be considered,
more or less, total failures at achieving what they are supposed to achieve.
Often interviewers are just outright incompetent at it. And this even if
the interviewer *is* an expert in the field (which is not a given). That's
because many such people are very poor at judging others' competence. Thus
it happens often that people who could be perfect for the job are dismissed
because of irrelevant things (eg. if the person being interviewed is nervous
about the interview) or because the interviewer is incapable of seeing that
the person might not be the best in the field *at that moment*, but he could
be a person who is a good learner and could get acquinted with the job quite
fast (for example, the interviewee might have never programmed for a certain
platform, but he could learn to do so rather efficiently in just a few weeks
and then be better than most people already in the company).
And that's assuming the interview questions themselves are competent.
Often the questions are very poor, test the wrong things or don't test
anything useful or relevant at all.
This causes for many competent people, people who could actually boost
the productivity of the company quite significantly, to be dismissed, and
also for incompetent people to get hired, for the sole reason that they
happened to convince the interviewer.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> This causes for many competent people, people who could actually boost
> the productivity of the company quite significantly, to be dismissed, and
> also for incompetent people to get hired, for the sole reason that they
> happened to convince the interviewer.
Ah. You've worked for my company then? The company where the entire
management staff were hired on their ability to spout
impressive-sounding power-words rather than actually, you know, manage
things?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:12:21 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Ah. You've worked for my company then? The company where the entire
> management staff were hired on their ability to spout
> impressive-sounding power-words rather than actually, you know, manage
> things?
This might come as a bit of a shock to you, but your company is not
unique in that occurrence. ;-)
I've worked for a couple companies that had managers like that. In fact,
it's probably more fair to say that all of the companies I've worked for
have had at least 1 manager who had no clue....
Jim
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > This causes for many competent people, people who could actually boost
> > the productivity of the company quite significantly, to be dismissed, and
> > also for incompetent people to get hired, for the sole reason that they
> > happened to convince the interviewer.
> Ah. You've worked for my company then? The company where the entire
> management staff were hired on their ability to spout
> impressive-sounding power-words rather than actually, you know, manage
> things?
No, but I have heard of actual cases where people with basically no
programming experience have been hired as programmers simply because of
incompetent job interviews. (Apparently these people think that they
could secure the job first, and learn the programming part later because,
you know, programming is easy. Any kid can do it, so why not them?)
This was especially true in the early 90's, where claiming that you know
how to write computer program automatically made you a guru in the eyes of
management and other people in charge of companies (and who knew absolutely
nothing about how computers work). People in charge have probably wisened
up a bit nowadays, at least in average, but I'm sure it still happens quite
a lot.
The problem with competent programmers, on the other hand, is that not
very surprisingly they tend to lack in social communication skills, which
makes them look bad in job interviews. Even if they would be more than
perfect for the job and would greatly boost the productivity of the company,
they could easily be dismissed because they can't handle the interview
process very convincingly.
--
- Warp
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On 02/23/10 03:24, Invisible wrote:
> It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
> materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to
> put my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for too
> much money.
You assume too much. There could be lots of reasons - some not having
to do with you.
--
Lisa: Oedipus killed his father and married his mother.
Homer: Who payed for THAT wedding?
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On 02/23/10 03:54, Invisible wrote:
> I'm going to phone them again tomorrow, and hopefully this time I'll
> have grown enough of a spine to make them TELL ME what's actually going on.
I don't know how recruiting companies work. Are you currently paying
them? If so, and if they don't seem helpful, tell them to close the
account. If not, merely ask why you should try to find a job through
them, with perhaps a hint that you don't want to continue with them (if
they're being vague with you).
Don't take my advice too seriously unless someone else here mirrors it
- as I said, I don't know much about such companies.
As for having trouble speaking on the phone: I used to have that
problem. I'd get stuck even ordering pizza. It helps to prepare certain
phrases in advance - both generic ones and specific to this current job
issue. When trying to ask something, you may have trouble finding a
segway where they'll allow you to speak on that particular topic. So
just prepare saying something (before you call) like "OK. I'm having a
bit of trouble understanding how this process works..." and then proceed
to say what you need to say. It's fairly easy making that statement
pretty much anywhere in the conversation.
It took me a while (perhaps a few years) of preparing for conversations
like these before calling before I didn't have to do so any more.
Also, it helps if you don't care too much. I mean, at worst, you won't
be any worse off than you were before.
Just don't say anything abusive/insulting, which I assume you wouldn't
do anyway...
--
Lisa: Oedipus killed his father and married his mother.
Homer: Who payed for THAT wedding?
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"Neeum Zawan" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message
news:4b848fb0$1@news.povray.org...
> issue. When trying to ask something, you may have trouble finding a
> segway
How long were you waiting to segue that in? <g>
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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:4b8452c3$1@news.povray.org...
> Ah. You've worked for my company then? The company where the entire
> management staff were hired on their ability to spout
> impressive-sounding power-words rather than actually, you know, manage
> things?
Why do you assume spouting impressive-sounding power-word is not a big part
of managing things? And I'm not being sarcastic. Being a manager requires
different qualities than being a labourer (of body or mind). Whether
labourers appreciate those qualities or not is besides the point; such
qualities work for what they do.
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>> Ah. You've worked for my company then? The company where the entire
>> management staff were hired on their ability to spout
>> impressive-sounding power-words rather than actually, you know, manage
>> things?
>
> Why do you assume spouting impressive-sounding power-word is not a big part
> of managing things?
If you're a salesman, being able to sound impressive is probably very
important.
If, on the other hand, your job is to make strategic decisions on how to
run the company's UK site, then the ability to spout enough BS to
convince management that the current disaster somehow isn't your fault
MAY allow you to hang on to your job, but will do nothing to prevent you
making mistake after mistake.
Management *does* require different skills. Being able to make things
look better than they are is only a very small part of that. A much,
much bigger part is
- Having some clue how the thing you're in charge of actually operates.
- Knowing what options are open to you.
- Understanding what impact your past decisions have had, and having
some idea what impact future decisions could have.
None of these have anything at all to do with impressive talking.
And yet, management consistently hire managers who talk with arrogant
over-confidence and promise them the Earth and the stars out of the sky,
rather than somebody who has a clue.
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>> Ah. You've worked for my company then?
>
> No, but I have heard of actual cases where people with basically no
> programming experience have been hired as programmers simply because of
> incompetent job interviews.
I'm sure this happens quite a lot. It would be somewhat worrying if
large companies make this kind of mistake though.
> (Apparently these people think that they
> could secure the job first, and learn the programming part later because,
> you know, programming is easy. Any kid can do it, so why not them?)
I'm sure some people actually think this. ("After all, it's just pushing
buttons, right?") Others probably know they can't program to save their
life, but think they can get away with it and still earn pots of money.
I'm not sure exactly which camp the guy I met at uni falls into. One day
I'm sitting in one of the computer rooms, and this Asian guy comes up to
me, somehow knows my name, and begs me to "fix my Java". "You Andrew,
yuh? You know Java? My Java broke - you fix for me? Is only small
problem. You fix? Yuh?"
I can't decide if the guy was deceitful or delusional, but his "Java"
consisted of several hopefully-named source files containing text which
bears a superficial resemblance to Java, but is not, in fact, Java. It
had curly brackets and semicolons and words like "class" and "public"
and "double", and a few hopeful-sounding words like "Product" and
"getName", but I couldn't even begin to guess, as a human being, what
the hell the assignment was. Syntactic validity? What's that then?
I honestly can't decide if the guy genuinely thought his program was
nearly working, or he knew full well it was gibberish and was hoping to
somehow get away with it anyway and earn his qualification. (An MSc,
apparently. Several other Asian MSc students came to me with the exact
same proposition, actually. No idea how the hell they knew who I was...
They didn't seem to pester anyone else!)
> This was especially true in the early 90's, where claiming that you know
> how to write computer program automatically made you a guru in the eyes of
> management and other people in charge of companies (and who knew absolutely
> nothing about how computers work). People in charge have probably wisened
> up a bit nowadays, at least in average, but I'm sure it still happens quite
> a lot.
Are these the same management-types in the early 90's who thought that
any company with ".com" in the name would automatically make hundreds of
trillians of dollars in profit any second now?
A cursory glance at The Daily WTF shows that there are still plenty of
managers who still have absolutely no clue how computers work.
(One manager commented that a particular program upgrade was "simple"
because "you only need to add one button". I mean, let's face it, that's
all a program *is*, right? Some buttons on a screen. It's not like
there's anything going on behind it or anything like that...)
I like to think that only the stupidest companies and coders end up on
The Daily WTF. I like to think that only my own employer would be stupid
enough to hire temp staff for 1 month to do a job which takes 2 months
of training to learn. I like to think that the human race HAS a
future... but I'm beginning to wonder.
> The problem with competent programmers, on the other hand, is that not
> very surprisingly they tend to lack in social communication skills, which
> makes them look bad in job interviews. Even if they would be more than
> perfect for the job and would greatly boost the productivity of the company,
> they could easily be dismissed because they can't handle the interview
> process very convincingly.
I'd like to claim that this is why I don't get hired. Then again, given
that I have only actually *been* to three job interviews in my entire
life, I'd say the problem is elsewhere...
Also - not wishing to belittle the fact that some recruiters don't have
a clue, but in most programming jobs some degree of social skill is
actually necessary for the job itself.
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Invisible wrote:
> Are these the same management-types in the early 90's who thought that
> any company with ".com" in the name would automatically make hundreds of
> trillians of dollars in profit any second now?
Reminds me of that great ETrade (I think) commercial, that ends "It's not
1999 any more." I couldn't find it online tho, as any possible reference
was overwhelmed with babies.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
The question in today's corporate environment is not
so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
"what color is your nose?"
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>> Are these the same management-types in the early 90's who thought that
>> any company with ".com" in the name would automatically make hundreds
>> of trillians of dollars in profit any second now?
>
> Reminds me of that great ETrade (I think) commercial, that ends "It's
> not 1999 any more." I couldn't find it online tho, as any possible
> reference was overwhelmed with babies.
"Overwhelmed with babies" sounds so utterly terrifying, doesn't it?
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > (Apparently these people think that they
> > could secure the job first, and learn the programming part later because,
> > you know, programming is easy. Any kid can do it, so why not them?)
> I'm sure some people actually think this. ("After all, it's just pushing
> buttons, right?") Others probably know they can't program to save their
> life, but think they can get away with it and still earn pots of money.
Which reminds me of this: http://warp.povusers.org/snaps/ad.jpg
(Kudos if you know where it's from.)
--
- Warp
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>> I'm sure some people actually think this. ("After all, it's just pushing
>> buttons, right?") Others probably know they can't program to save their
>> life, but think they can get away with it and still earn pots of money.
>
> Which reminds me of this: http://warp.povusers.org/snaps/ad.jpg
>
> (Kudos if you know where it's from.)
Well *obviously* that's Superman. (IV? The one where Lex Luthor gets Gus
Gorman to take over the world be stockpiling the world's oil in the
middle of the Atlantic ocean. Not that I used to watch the VHS three
times a week when I was a child or *anything* like that...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Well *obviously* that's Superman.
Dmanit, if you squint close enough, you can see it says "Telephone
Metropolis" - as in, the fictional city that only exists in the Superman
universe.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> > Well *obviously* that's Superman.
> Dmanit, if you squint close enough, you can see it says "Telephone
> Metropolis" - as in, the fictional city that only exists in the Superman
> universe.
Yeah, but you got the sequel number wrong.
--
- Warp
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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news:
4b85931c$1@news.povray.org...
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> Well *obviously* that's Superman.
>
> Dmanit, if you squint close enough, you can see it says "Telephone
> Metropolis" - as in, the fictional city that only exists in the Superman
> universe.
>
Eerr don't you know German expressionism films? : Fritz Lang 1927
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(film)
Marc
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>>> Well *obviously* that's Superman.
>
> Yeah, but you got the sequel number wrong.
Oh well, never mind. I'm used to failure. (See subject line.)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Oh well, never mind. I'm used to failure. (See subject line.)
Failure is not the only option.
--
- Warp
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M_a_r_c wrote:
> "Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 4b85931c$1@news.povray.org...
>> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>
>>> Well *obviously* that's Superman.
>> Dmanit, if you squint close enough, you can see it says "Telephone
>> Metropolis" - as in, the fictional city that only exists in the Superman
>> universe.
>>
> Eerr don't you know German expressionism films? : Fritz Lang 1927
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(film)
That is indeed a pretty sweet movie, although I haven't seen the new
restored version with most of the lost scenes which I hear was recently
released.
There was also a decent anime of the same name released (based on the
Fritz Lang film):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(anime)
Of course, given that the photo is live-action and in color I can't
think of any possibility for the city of Metropolis other than Superman.
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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Oh well, never mind. I'm used to failure. (See subject line.)
>
> Failure is not the only option.
>
That phrase always reminds me of this:
http://www.angryflower.com/crisis.html
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"Kevin Wampler" <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> a écrit dans le message de news:
4b85f511$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Of course, given that the photo is live-action and in color I can't think
> of any possibility for the city of Metropolis other than Superman.
Indeed :)
I was just making the point that Metropolis does *not* exist only in
Superman's universe.
Marc
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> Indeed :)
> I was just making the point that Metropolis does *not* exist only in
> Superman's universe.
This reminds me of when I saw that countdown of the all-time best movie
robots.
Some of them were good, like Robbie the Robot. Some of them were evil,
like HAL. All of them were absurdly famous.
But the number one spot, the pinacle of robothood, the jewel in the
crown, was... was... some robot nobody's ever heard of, from a film
nobody's ever seen.
And then I looked again at the pannel of judges, and concluded that this
is probably because they were probably in their teens when Metropolis
came out in 1874 or whenever it was. :-P
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> And then I looked again at the pannel of judges, and concluded that this
> is probably because they were probably in their teens when Metropolis
> came out in 1874 or whenever it was. :-P
Given that the first commercial exhibition of film took place on 1894,
that's quite unlikely.
--
- Warp
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Invisible wrote:
> Some of them were good, like Robbie the Robot. Some of them were evil,
> like HAL. All of them were absurdly famous.
HAL wasn't evil. Just overenthusiastic.
> But the number one spot, the pinacle of robothood, the jewel in the
> crown, was... was... some robot nobody's ever heard of, from a film
> nobody's ever seen.
Actually, I would expect that title should go to the star of RUR, the movie
which invented to word "robot." :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
The question in today's corporate environment is not
so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
"what color is your nose?"
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>> And then I looked again at the pannel of judges, and concluded that this
>> is probably because they were probably in their teens when Metropolis
>> came out in 1874 or whenever it was. :-P
>
> Given that the first commercial exhibition of film took place on 1894,
> that's quite unlikely.
From the look of the short clips they shows, it wouldn't surprise me if
this film predates commercial filming. :-P
But sure. I just meant that the film is so astonishingly old that almost
nobody will have ever heard of it. I very much doubt that the date I
randomly picked out of the air happens to be anywhere near the real
release date.
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Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Some of them were good, like Robbie the Robot. Some of them were evil,
>> like HAL. All of them were absurdly famous.
>
> HAL wasn't evil. Just overenthusiastic.
>
Thus spake Zaraprogrammer :-)
>> But the number one spot, the pinacle of robothood, the jewel in the
>> crown, was... was... some robot nobody's ever heard of, from a film
>> nobody's ever seen.
>
> Actually, I would expect that title should go to the star of RUR, the
> movie which invented to word "robot." :-)
>
I always liked Tobor the Great.
BTW robot is Tobor spelt backwards ;)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Invisible wrote:
>
> But sure. I just meant that the film is so astonishingly old that almost
> nobody will have ever heard of it.
This is absolutely not true. Fritz Lang's Metropolis is *far* from
obscure, and is probably one of the better known "classic" movies out
there. Sure, if you only watch movies that you've had a chance to see
in the theater you won't have seen it, but in that case you wouldn't
have watched Casablanca, Citizen Cane, Modern Times, etc. either.
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Stephen wrote:
>> HAL wasn't evil. Just overenthusiastic.
> Thus spake Zaraprogrammer :-)
It's explained quite well in the book, really. :) No more evil than a
general sending soldiers on a mission where he knows they'll die. Not *good*
mind you...
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
The question in today's corporate environment is not
so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
"what color is your nose?"
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Darren New wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>>> HAL wasn't evil. Just overenthusiastic.
>> Thus spake Zaraprogrammer :-)
>
> It's explained quite well in the book, really. :) No more evil than a
> general sending soldiers on a mission where he knows they'll die. Not
> *good* mind you...
>
Yes, how can a machine be evil?
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> > Stephen wrote:
> >>> HAL wasn't evil. Just overenthusiastic.
> >> Thus spake Zaraprogrammer :-)
> >
> > It's explained quite well in the book, really. :) No more evil than a
> > general sending soldiers on a mission where he knows they'll die. Not
> > *good* mind you...
> >
> Yes, how can a machine be evil?
Many scifi books explore the idea that machines are not good or evil,
but completely neutral. Their problem is that they are too logical, and
when given contradictory directives, they will try to come up with a solution
which fulfills all of them at the same time. IIRC that was the case with
2001: A Space Odyssey as well as many books by Asimov (and one of the ideas
behind the so-called "zeroth law of robotics" in his books).
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Many scifi books explore the idea that machines are not good or evil,
> but completely neutral. Their problem is that they are too logical, and
> when given contradictory directives, they will try to come up with a solution
> which fulfills all of them at the same time. IIRC that was the case with
> 2001: A Space Odyssey as well as many books by Asimov (and one of the ideas
> behind the so-called "zeroth law of robotics" in his books).
>
Ah! The good Doctor and his Gentle Reader along with Arthur C Clarke
were the favourite authors of my childhood.
You would know better than me about error and infinite loop trapping.
Still how can a fulcrum be evil?
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Invisible wrote:
> It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
> materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to
> put my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for too
> much money.
On Monday, a recruiter phoned me and said he wanted to put my CV forward
for a job offering... £28k. So apparently it's a reasonable sum to ask
for, even in MK.
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Invisible wrote:
> On Monday, a recruiter phoned me and said he wanted to put my CV forward
> for a job offering... £28k. So apparently it's a reasonable sum to ask
> for, even in MK.
Woah, wait a sec... I have a telephone interview tomorrow! o_O
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On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:25:01 +0000, Invisible wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>
>> It seems the job I've been pinning all my hopes on isn't going to
>> materialise after all. For reasons unknown, the agency isn't going to
>> put my CV forward. I can only assume I was too greedy and asked for too
>> much money.
>
> On Monday, a recruiter phoned me and said he wanted to put my CV forward
> for a job offering... £28k. So apparently it's a reasonable sum to ask
> for, even in MK.
Sounds like a positive development. :-)
Jim
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On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:47:12 +0000, Invisible wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>
>> On Monday, a recruiter phoned me and said he wanted to put my CV
>> forward for a job offering... £28k. So apparently it's a reasonable sum
>> to ask for, even in MK.
>
> Woah, wait a sec... I have a telephone interview tomorrow! o_O
You'll do fine. :-)
Jim
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Invisible wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>
>> On Monday, a recruiter phoned me and said he wanted to put my CV
>> forward for a job offering... £28k. So apparently it's a reasonable
>> sum to ask for, even in MK.
>
> Woah, wait a sec... I have a telephone interview tomorrow! o_O
Well done, try to take it on a land line much better than having an
interview on a mobile. Have a cup of something to hand and your CV so
you can refer to the lies you told. :)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> Have a cup of something to hand and your CV so
> you can refer to the lies you told. :)
Oh. Yeah, that would be a good idea. Hmm, I wonder if I can get my CV
back off Monster...
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>> Have a cup of something to hand and your CV so you can refer to the
>> lies you told. :)
>
> Oh. Yeah, that would be a good idea. Hmm, I wonder if I can get my CV
> back off Monster...
Oh goodie. I can't remember my password. >_<
(If I was at home, I'd have it written down...)
Fortunately the post I made here last month with a draft of my CV hasn't
expired yet. I don't think I changed it *that* much since then...
It's all going swimmingly. :-/
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