I guess you will all have to put up with me blogging about my new computer.

Most of the components arrived yesterday - everything but the CPU fan.  But 
I've got spare 120mm fans laying around, so that didn't stop me from putting 
it all together yesterday.  Once everything was installed, I turned it on, 
and surprisingly (for me anyway), it all worked the first time I flipped the 
switch.  It was about 10:30pm at that point (I'm slow), so I was going to 
simply leave it alone until today, but I just couldn't leave it.  I got 
Windows 7 installed and then messed around with some overclocking.

Asus actually ships with a utility that "auto-tunes" the overclock for you. 
It just keeps raising the speeds and voltages, then testing until your 
system crashes.  It was getting pretty late at that point, so I stopped 
messing with it, but it seemed to really start having trouble around 3.6 to 
3.7GHz.  3.5GHz seemed pretty stable, but it's hard to say for certain.

Windows 7 takes about 20 seconds from start to displaying the login prompt, 
then only 2 seconds from there to display the desktop.  Of course, as I load 
more crap onto the machine, that will become slower and slower.

Temps: I was in my basement, where it was perhaps 60F-65F last night.  With 
no overclock, the system was idling at about 24C.  That's crazy cool.  OC'd 
to 3.3GHz, it was idling at 28C and hit 56C under load.  I really didn't 
monitor the temps very much, though, so it's possible that they went a bit 
higher.

Fun!

Post a reply to this message

Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> I guess you will all have to put up with me blogging about my new computer.

Don't worry about it.

> Temps: I was in my basement, where it was perhaps 60F-65F last night.  With 
> no overclock, the system was idling at about 24C.  That's crazy cool.  OC'd 
> to 3.3GHz, it was idling at 28C and hit 56C under load.  I really didn't 
> monitor the temps very much, though, so it's possible that they went a bit 
> higher.

I'm loving the arbitrary mixture of Celsius and Farenheit.

> Fun! 

Indeed.

It's when you try the POV-Ray beta's realtime raytracing with video 
underlay that it gets exciting...

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4b7e9e21@news.povray.org...
> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>> I guess you will all have to put up with me blogging about my new 
>> computer.
>
> Don't worry about it.

As if you had any right to complain.  LOL!

>
>> Temps: I was in my basement, where it was perhaps 60F-65F last night. 
>> With no overclock, the system was idling at about 24C.  That's crazy 
>> cool.  OC'd to 3.3GHz, it was idling at 28C and hit 56C under load.  I 
>> really didn't monitor the temps very much, though, so it's possible that 
>> they went a bit higher.
>
> I'm loving the arbitrary mixture of Celsius and Farenheit.

I actually noticed that when I typed it up.  CPU temps, I think about C, but 
ambient/room temps, I think of F.  I guess that's how we Americans are... 
Perhaps I should also mention that the CPU cooler is about 6 inches high, 
leaving my case with only about 1 cm of clearance.  ;-)

>
>> Fun!
>
> Indeed.
>
> It's when you try the POV-Ray beta's realtime raytracing with video 
> underlay that it gets exciting...

Yeah.  I was really tempted to download POV and do some testing, but it was 
past midnight, and I knew for certain that I would not be able to walk away 
once I started playing with POV.

Post a reply to this message

>>> I guess you will all have to put up with me blogging about my new 
>>> computer.
>> Don't worry about it.
> 
> As if you had any right to complain.  LOL!

Actually I was speaking from experience. ;-)

>> I'm loving the arbitrary mixture of Celsius and Farenheit.
> 
> I actually noticed that when I typed it up.  CPU temps, I think about C, but 
> ambient/room temps, I think of F.  I guess that's how we Americans are... 
> Perhaps I should also mention that the CPU cooler is about 6 inches high, 
> leaving my case with only about 1 cm of clearance.  ;-)

I guess we won't even get into the whole craziness that I know that I'm 
6 feet 2 inches tall, but I have no idea how many meters that is. Or 
that they sell petrol in litres, but all cars measure fuel in gallons...

>> It's when you try the POV-Ray beta's realtime raytracing with video 
>> underlay that it gets exciting...
> 
> Yeah.  I was really tempted to download POV and do some testing, but it was 
> past midnight, and I knew for certain that I would not be able to walk away 
> once I started playing with POV. 

BEWARE THE LEMNISCATE ZONE! Easy to enter, IMPOSSIBLE to leave!

Post a reply to this message

Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> Asus actually ships with a utility that "auto-tunes" the overclock for you. 

My graphics card had one of those. I had turned it on (or it had turned 
itself on or soemthing) and forgotten about it, and a few weeks later 
started getting crashes of the video driver about twice a week, sometimes 
including restarting the whole machine. When I realized that was turned on 
and turned it off, my machine went back to not crashing.

Just take care, because overclocking leads to unreliability. The factory 
already tested the chip and they marked it with the maximum safe speed. 
(That's how they decide if a part is a 3.3GHz part, or a 3.0, or a 2.8, etc)

> Windows 7 takes about 20 seconds from start to displaying the login prompt, 
> then only 2 seconds from there to display the desktop.  Of course, as I load 
> more crap onto the machine, that will become slower and slower.

I noticed that, but I don't know why it happens to me (on vista) since I 
pretty much turn off or defer all the services I don't need. Vista used to 
boot faster than my Linux, but now it's about 1.5 times as long.

Just as an aside, I'm amused that my flat-screen TV apparently runs Linux 
(there's instructions in google for getting a root prompt on your TV), and 
it takes about 20-25 seconds to power up to where the remote will display 
the menu, roughly the same time as the XBox.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> Just take care, because overclocking leads to unreliability.

This is why I never overlock anything, even though obviously I'd like it 
to go faster.

> The factory 
> already tested the chip and they marked it with the maximum safe speed. 
> (That's how they decide if a part is a 3.3GHz part, or a 3.0, or a 2.8, 
> etc)

Not necessarily.

Sometimes parts are sold as 2.8 GHz because they're not stable enough to 
run at 3.3 GHz or whatever. And sometimes they're sold as 2.8 because 
the 2.8 bin is looking a bit empty this week.

It depends on what production yields the manufacturer is getting, and 
how much demand for different CPU speeds there is currently. If lots of 
people are buying the cheap 2.8 chips and not many buying the expensive 
3.3 ones, they're going to label more of them as 2.8 to get more sales.

So it's just kind of pot-luck as to how much you can overclock your 
particular chip. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

"Jeremy \"UncleHoot\" Praay" <jer### [at] questsoftwarecmo> wrote:
> >> Temps: I was in my basement, where it was perhaps 60F-65F last night.
> >> With no overclock, the system was idling at about 24C.  That's crazy
> >> cool.  OC'd to 3.3GHz, it was idling at 28C and hit 56C under load.  I
> >> really didn't monitor the temps very much, though, so it's possible that
> >> they went a bit higher.
> >
> > I'm loving the arbitrary mixture of Celsius and Farenheit.
>
> I actually noticed that when I typed it up.  CPU temps, I think about C, but
> ambient/room temps, I think of F.  I guess that's how we Americans are...

I think so... I read that without a second thought.
Charles

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

> I guess we won't even get into the whole craziness that I know that I'm
> 6 feet 2 inches tall, but I have no idea how many meters that is. Or
> that they sell petrol in litres, but all cars measure fuel in gallons...

I *wish* my cars could display how much fuel was left in some kind of unit.
Every car I've driven so far only has your standard quarter-tank marks on a
dial. In the US they sell fuel by the gallon. (I live in a place where you
aren't allowed to fuel your own car.  People get confused if you ever try asking
for a certain number of gallons rather than a certain number of "dollars-worth"
or "full".)
Charles

Post a reply to this message

Charles C wrote:
> People get confused if you ever try asking for a certain number of gallons 

That must be pretty brain-damaged. I could handle that much when I was 12 or so.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Charles C wrote:
> > People get confused if you ever try asking for a certain number of gallons
>
> That must be pretty brain-damaged. I could handle that much when I was 12 or so.


Try it.  (Adding emphasis on the word "gallons" would be cheating.)
Charles

Post a reply to this message

Charles C wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Charles C wrote:
>>> People get confused if you ever try asking for a certain number of gallons
>> That must be pretty brain-damaged. I could handle that much when I was 12 or so.
> 
> 
> Try it.  (Adding emphasis on the word "gallons" would be cheating.)
> Charles
> 

Don't your fuel pumps have a counter for volume and one for total price?
-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote:
> Don't your fuel pumps have a counter for volume and one for total price?

They do...
Charles

Post a reply to this message

Charles C wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote:
>> Don't your fuel pumps have a counter for volume and one for total price?
> 

Now that’s a puzzle then :-)

On another point my car is a 5 year old Ford Mondeo so it’s not an 
expensive car, has a MPG readout that will also tell you (in miles) how 
far you can drive before the tank is empty.


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Charles C wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Charles C wrote:
>>> People get confused if you ever try asking for a certain number of gallons
>> That must be pretty brain-damaged. I could handle that much when I was 12 or so.
> 
> 
> Try it.  (Adding emphasis on the word "gallons" would be cheating.)

I'm not sure what you mean. What do you think "I could handle that at 12" 
means if not that I handled it at 12?  My dad owned a service station.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Charles C wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> Charles C wrote:
> >>> People get confused if you ever try asking for a certain number of gallons
> >> That must be pretty brain-damaged. I could handle that much when I was 12 or so.
> >
> >
> > Try it.  (Adding emphasis on the word "gallons" would be cheating.)
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. What do you think "I could handle that at 12"
> means if not that I handled it at 12?  My dad owned a service station.
>
> --
> Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
>    The question in today's corporate environment is not
>    so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
>    "what color is your nose?"

I didn't make that inference. By "I could handle that at 12" I thought you meant
you could fulfill such a request at age 12, not that you necessarily had a
reason to.

By "try it" I meant try asking for some number of gallons and see how the gas
station attendant responds.  I didn't mean fuel people's cars ;)

I suppose I've only requested fuel into a car's tank by volume a couple of
times.  The first time, I got "x" dollars worth of fuel rather than "x" gallons
of fuel.  The second time I made it very clear that I wanted "x" gallons and was
told they could only punch in a dollar amount. (..which yes, is easy to
calculate.)

Charles

PS, sorry, I didn't mean to rat-hole on this.

Post a reply to this message

> I *wish* my cars could display how much fuel was left in some kind of 
> unit.

Every car I've driven within the last 5 years tells you how much fuel is 
left in either km or miles.

> dial. In the US they sell fuel by the gallon. (I live in a place where you
> aren't allowed to fuel your own car.  People get confused if you ever try 
> asking
> for a certain number of gallons rather than a certain number of 
> "dollars-worth"
> or "full".)

Why would you want to put a certain number of gallons into your car?

Post a reply to this message

> Sometimes parts are sold as 2.8 GHz because they're not stable enough to 
> run at 3.3 GHz or whatever. And sometimes they're sold as 2.8 because the 
> 2.8 bin is looking a bit empty this week.

Also don't forget the manufacturer will be testing for absolute worst case 
conditions, the CPU will only be binned at 3.3 GHz if they think it can 
survive running at 3.3 GHz (plus a bit) at the maximum specified temperature 
(plus a bit) for a long time.

They have to do that, because even 0.01% returned unstable CPUs is a huge 
cost for them - but what this means for the individual user is that they've 
got a very good chance of being able to overclock the CPU without any 
reliability issues.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:4b824ae8$1@news.povray.org...
>> Sometimes parts are sold as 2.8 GHz because they're not stable enough to 
>> run at 3.3 GHz or whatever. And sometimes they're sold as 2.8 because the 
>> 2.8 bin is looking a bit empty this week.
>
> Also don't forget the manufacturer will be testing for absolute worst case 
> conditions, the CPU will only be binned at 3.3 GHz if they think it can 
> survive running at 3.3 GHz (plus a bit) at the maximum specified 
> temperature (plus a bit) for a long time.
>
> They have to do that, because even 0.01% returned unstable CPUs is a huge 
> cost for them - but what this means for the individual user is that 
> they've got a very good chance of being able to overclock the CPU without 
> any reliability issues.
>

I don't know exactly what the manufacturer does, but I would figure that 
they sell a lot more of the 860's than the 870's, simply because there is a 
huge price difference (almost double), and very little performance 
difference between 2.8 and 2.9GHz.  So, even though the CPU may run at 
2.9GHz, they simply don't need to manufacture any more 870's, so it gets 
labeled as an 860.

Anyway...  At stock voltages, I was only able to take it up to 2.9GHz, and 
while it seemed stable, who cares?  I can get way higher than that!  After 
messing around for a couple hours or so, I was able to crank it up to about 
3.8GHz, but it was pretty unstable at that point.  I kept the same voltages 
and lowered it to 3.5GHz, and it seems to be very stable.  I lowered some of 
the voltages and it still seems very stable.  I ran Prime95 on it for about 
an hour and did a couple POV-Ray renders, and no trouble at all.

Apples and oranges, but I had a render that took over 20 hours (POV 3.6) on 
my old computer that ran in under 13 minutes on the new one (overclocked, 
POV 3.7 beta).  The gamma was messed up, though.  I guess I need to read-up 
on how to compensate for that.  Some of the sample scenes ran so fast that 
it didn't even have time to measure the time, and they showed up with a time 
of 0:00.

Suddenly, I'm really starting to feel like rendering again.  Who knew?

Post a reply to this message

Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:

> Suddenly, I'm really starting to feel like rendering again.  Who knew? 

I'm pretty sure several people could have put money on it. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> I *wish* my cars could display how much fuel was left in some kind of 
>> unit.
> 
> Every car I've driven within the last 5 years tells you how much fuel is 
> left in either km or miles.

Not really. They estimate, and usually with a wide margin for safety. :-) 
But you knew that already.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

On 02/22/10 01:06, scott wrote:
>> dial. In the US they sell fuel by the gallon. (I live in a place where
>> you
>> aren't allowed to fuel your own car.  People get confused if you ever
>> try asking
>> for a certain number of gallons rather than a certain number of
>> "dollars-worth"
>> or "full".)
> 
> Why would you want to put a certain number of gallons into your car?

	Because I don't have to keep track of prices.

	My car is half full. I want it near full. I know the capacity of my
tank, so I have a good guess as to how many gallons I should put in.

	Gas prices vary quite a bit. I don't want to have to do the math every
time to figure out how many $$ I should spend to get the appropriate
amount of gas.

-- 
Lisa: Oedipus killed his father and married his mother.
Homer: Who payed for THAT wedding?

Post a reply to this message

Neeum Zawan wrote:
> 	My car is half full. I want it near full. 

Out of curiousity, why not just "full"?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

>> Why would you want to put a certain number of gallons into your car?
>
> Because I don't have to keep track of prices.
>
> My car is half full. I want it near full.

Yeh but why would anyone want to do that?  I can understand asking for 
"full" or for $10 worth, but why would anyone want to ask for 2 gallons?

Post a reply to this message

What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??

Post a reply to this message

> What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
> can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??

Probably quite a long way with a lawn mower, go-kart, moped or this:

http://www.hpieurope.com/kit-info.php?partNo=10611&lang=en

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
> can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??

To the next gas station?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

On 02/22/10 19:37, Darren New wrote:
> Neeum Zawan wrote:
>>     My car is half full. I want it near full. 
> 
> Out of curiousity, why not just "full"?

	Well, with a gas station attendant, that may be OK. I usually pay cash,
and you often have to pre-pay, so it becomes a headache to overpay, and
then return to get the change. When I pay with a CC, then it's not a
problem.


-- 
Lisa: Oedipus killed his father and married his mother.
Homer: Who payed for THAT wedding?

Post a reply to this message

On 02/23/10 02:16, scott wrote:
>> My car is half full. I want it near full.
> 
> Yeh but why would anyone want to do that?  I can understand asking for
> "full" or for $10 worth, but why would anyone want to ask for 2 gallons?

	Full works with a gas station attendant. With self service, they often
want you to prepay if you pay in cash (which I usually do). That becomes
a headache.

-- 
Lisa: Oedipus killed his father and married his mother.
Homer: Who payed for THAT wedding?

Post a reply to this message

Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 02/22/10 19:37, Darren New wrote:
>> Neeum Zawan wrote:
>>>     My car is half full. I want it near full. 
>> Out of curiousity, why not just "full"?
> 
> 	Well, with a gas station attendant, that may be OK. I usually pay cash,
> and you often have to pre-pay, so it becomes a headache to overpay, and
> then return to get the change. When I pay with a CC, then it's not a
> problem.

OK. So why not full? Or some number of dollars? How does some number of 
gallons prevent you from having to go in and get your change?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4b83abea$1@news.povray.org...
> What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
> can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4b83abea$1@news.povray.org...
> What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
> can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??

My 5.7 litre V8 ute will do about 10k on a litre of fuel if I dont drive it 
like I stole it...

Cheers Dre

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4b7eaac9$1@news.povray.org...
>>>> I guess you will all have to put up with me blogging about my new 
>>>> computer.
>>> Don't worry about it.
>>
>> As if you had any right to complain.  LOL!
>
> Actually I was speaking from experience. ;-)
>
>>> I'm loving the arbitrary mixture of Celsius and Farenheit.
>>
>> I actually noticed that when I typed it up.  CPU temps, I think about C, 
>> but ambient/room temps, I think of F.  I guess that's how we Americans 
>> are... Perhaps I should also mention that the CPU cooler is about 6 
>> inches high, leaving my case with only about 1 cm of clearance.  ;-)
>
> I guess we won't even get into the whole craziness that I know that I'm 6 
> feet 2 inches tall, but I have no idea how many meters that is. Or that 
> they sell petrol in litres, but all cars measure fuel in gallons...
<snip>
Unless of course you live in Australia where cars measure fuel in litres...

Cheers Dre

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >> Why would you want to put a certain number of gallons into your car?
> >
> > Because I don't have to keep track of prices.
> >
> > My car is half full. I want it near full.
>
> Yeh but why would anyone want to do that?  I can understand asking for
> "full" or for $10 worth, but why would anyone want to ask for 2 gallons?

Yes, exactly - which is why almost nobody asks for fuel by volume, which
probably means if you're a gas station attendant and somebody drives up in a car
and asks you for "ten gallons of regular", they probably *really* meant $10
worth."  Plus it probably doesn't help that you've been hearing repetitively
similar phrases all day long.

Charles

Post a reply to this message

>> What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
>> can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??
> 
> My 5.7 litre V8 ute will do about 10k on a litre of fuel if I dont drive it 
> like I stole it...

According to Wolfram Alpha, a "gallon", depending on which one you mean, 
is somewhere between 3 L and 4 L. (I actually thought it was more like 
25 L, but apparently not.)

My new car gets about 35 miles/gallon, which works out to about 9 
miles/litre.

So I guess, hypothetically, you can drive 9 miles. (Obviously the real 
distance will be shorter than that, because it takes fuel to start the 
engine, and once the tank is nearly empty the engine stops working.)

9 miles is in fact about 14 Km.



I just wonder why they don't make 2 L or even 5 L petrol cans. I presume 
it's to do with fire safety or something...

Post a reply to this message

>>> What *I* don't understand is those 1-litre petrol cans. I mean, how far 
>>> can you possibly drive with 1 L of fuel??
>>
>> My 5.7 litre V8 ute will do about 10k on a litre of fuel if I dont drive 
>> it like I stole it...
>
> According to Wolfram Alpha, a "gallon", depending on which one you mean, 
> is somewhere between 3 L and 4 L. (I actually thought it was more like 25 
> L, but apparently not.)
>
> My new car gets about 35 miles/gallon, which works out to about 9 
> miles/litre.
>
> 9 miles is in fact about 14 Km.

If I drive mine sensibly I should be able to get 20 km (handy that my car 
displays the fuel consumption in litres per 100 km).

> I just wonder why they don't make 2 L or even 5 L petrol cans. I presume 
> it's to do with fire safety or something...

Dunno, I thought we had a few 5 L ones at home, also don't pumps have a 
minimum delivery of 2 litres? (the ones round here do)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> also don't pumps have a 
> minimum delivery of 2 litres? (the ones round here do)

Hmm. Actually yes... so I wonder how the hell you fill a 1 L can? o_O

Post a reply to this message

>> I guess we won't even get into the whole craziness that I know that I'm 6 
>> feet 2 inches tall, but I have no idea how many meters that is. Or that 
>> they sell petrol in litres, but all cars measure fuel in gallons...
> <snip>
> Unless of course you live in Australia where cars measure fuel in 
> litres...

Or any European country apart from the UK.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:4b8510d5$1@news.povray.org...
>>> I guess we won't even get into the whole craziness that I know that I'm 
>>> 6 feet 2 inches tall, but I have no idea how many meters that is. Or 
>>> that they sell petrol in litres, but all cars measure fuel in gallons...
>> <snip>
>> Unless of course you live in Australia where cars measure fuel in 
>> litres...
>
> Or any European country apart from the UK.
>
Even Canada measures fuel in litres.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> I just wonder why they don't make 2 L or even 5 L petrol cans. I presume 
> it's to do with fire safety or something...

I have two 2-gallon cans and a 5-gallon can in the garage. Must be your laws 
or something.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> scott wrote:
>> also don't pumps have a minimum delivery of 2 litres? (the ones round 
>> here do)

Wha?  You have weirdness over there.

> Hmm. Actually yes... so I wonder how the hell you fill a 1 L can? o_O

Usually after filling your car, I'd guess.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

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On 02/23/10 18:38, Darren New wrote:
>>     Well, with a gas station attendant, that may be OK. I usually pay
>> cash,
>> and you often have to pre-pay, so it becomes a headache to overpay, and
>> then return to get the change. When I pay with a CC, then it's not a
>> problem.
> 
> OK. So why not full? Or some number of dollars? How does some number of
> gallons prevent you from having to go in and get your change?

	If it's prepay and full, I have to go in and pay in advance. They will
want me to pay SOME amount, and so it has to be more than what's needed
to be full, and then I have to go back in and get the change.

	If it's just some number of gallons, I can say that amount (and it will
be less than full, obviously). However, since I can't say gallons, I
have to do the math.

	


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