Hooookay, so what's the average salary for a system administrator?

Trouble is, the answer varies by city. Also, there are "system 
administrators" who keep 3 PCs running and make sure Word is still 
working. And there are system administrators who supervise a small army 
of technitions who keep an entire data center operational 24x7. The 
first guy is probably on £16,000 and the second is probably on £60,000. 
Now define "average".

Google isn't especially helpful here. I can see particular job adverts 
and the salaries they *claim* to offer - but that's not the same as what 
the applicants actually end up getting paid. The other problem is that 
almost all salary data is for the USA, not the UK. But I did manage to 
find two useful links:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/systems%20administrator.do

http://www.mysalary.co.uk/average-salary/System_Administrator_2991

The first link provides not only an average, but some confidence 
intervals and even a histogram, which is nice.

So the first site claims the average is £35k, but it falls to £32k if 
you exclude London. The second site claims it's £30.5k. And the first 
site claims that 90% of all jobs offer more than £26k.

Does anybody have any better data to offer?

Obviously, if I get a new job, I want them to pay me as much money as 
humanly possible. But on the other hand, if I ask for £50k, they'll just 
hire somebody else instead. And if I tell them that I currently work in 
a highly-regulated environment which large amounts of responsibility for 
just £14k, they'll just offer me £15k and say "take it or leave it"...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:26:16 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Obviously, if I get a new job, I want them to pay me as much money as
> humanly possible. But on the other hand, if I ask for £50k, they'll just
> hire somebody else instead. 

Maybe, maybe not.  Start by asking what they're offering, not by telling 
them what you think you should get.

> And if I tell them that I currently work in
> a highly-regulated environment which large amounts of responsibility for
> just £14k, they'll just offer me £15k and say "take it or leave it"...

Your current salary isn't their business, so don't tell them what you 
make.

Jim

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>> Obviously, if I get a new job, I want them to pay me as much money as
>> humanly possible. But on the other hand, if I ask for £50k, they'll just
>> hire somebody else instead. 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.  Start by asking what they're offering, not by telling 
> them what you think you should get.

A better place to start would be to ask what they're expecting me to do. 
How much they're paying should obviously be related to how difficult the 
work is...

>> And if I tell them that I currently work in
>> a highly-regulated environment which large amounts of responsibility for
>> just £14k, they'll just offer me £15k and say "take it or leave it"...
> 
> Your current salary isn't their business, so don't tell them what you 
> make.

The recruiters seem awfully keen to know what I make now and "what my 
expectations are".

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Invisible wrote:

>> Your current salary isn't their business, so don't tell them what you 
>> make.
> 
> The recruiters seem awfully keen to know what I make now and "what my 
> expectations are".

Crikey! Whatever you do don’t tell the truth. Multiply what you get by 
at least 1.5.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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>> The recruiters seem awfully keen to know what I make now and "what my 
>> expectations are".
> 
> Crikey! Whatever you do don’t tell the truth. Multiply what you get by 
> at least 1.5.

Well, I don't have to tell them what I make now. But it seems reasonable 
for them to ask what I'm expecting to get paid - so I need to come up 
with a number.

Unfortunately, it seems I either pick a number that's too high and they 
say "sorry, the job we were going to offer to you doesn't pay that 
much", or a number too low and I end up getting less money than I should 
have.

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Invisible wrote:
>>> The recruiters seem awfully keen to know what I make now and "what my 
>>> expectations are".
>>
>> Crikey! Whatever you do don’t tell the truth. Multiply what you get by 
>> at least 1.5.
> 
> Well, I don't have to tell them what I make now. But it seems reasonable 
> for them to ask what I'm expecting to get paid - so I need to come up 
> with a number.
> 
> Unfortunately, it seems I either pick a number that's too high and they 
> say "sorry, the job we were going to offer to you doesn't pay that 
> much", or a number too low and I end up getting less money than I should 
> have.

Yes, that the decision you have to make.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:55:10 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>> Obviously, if I get a new job, I want them to pay me as much money as
>>> humanly possible. But on the other hand, if I ask for £50k, they'll
>>> just hire somebody else instead.
>> 
>> Maybe, maybe not.  Start by asking what they're offering, not by
>> telling them what you think you should get.
> 
> A better place to start would be to ask what they're expecting me to do.
> How much they're paying should obviously be related to how difficult the
> work is...

Well, partially - there are other factors as well, of course, such as 
your skill level.

>>> And if I tell them that I currently work in a highly-regulated
>>> environment which large amounts of responsibility for just £14k,
>>> they'll just offer me £15k and say "take it or leave it"...
>> 
>> Your current salary isn't their business, so don't tell them what you
>> make.
> 
> The recruiters seem awfully keen to know what I make now and "what my
> expectations are".

"not enough" and "more".

Just because they ask doesn't mean they're entitled to know.

Jim

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On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:16:11 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> Unfortunately, it seems I either pick a number that's too high and they
> say "sorry, the job we were going to offer to you doesn't pay that
> much",

Then you ask them what they're offering.

That's "negotiation".

Jim

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Invisible wrote:
> Unfortunately, it seems I either pick a number that's too high and they 
> say "sorry, the job we were going to offer to you doesn't pay that 
> much", or a number too low and I end up getting less money than I should 
> have.

Whoever is the first to give a number loses. That's why recruiters ask you. 
You're not their customer. You're their product.

A good answer when they ask is "I expect above the industry average" or 
"Industry standard wages would be good."  Don't give them a number, because 
you don't know a number, because they haven't offered you a job yet. After 
they offer you the job, you can give them a number that makes sense for the 
amount of work, the distance of the commute, the cost of living in the city 
where the job is, the intangible benefits at the workplace, etc.

If they insist, tell them you insist on knowing how long it'll take for them 
to find you a job first.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

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Darren New wrote:

> Whoever is the first to give a number loses.

Just like in fighting...

> That's why recruiters ask 
> you. You're not their customer. You're their product.

Heh, there is that.

I'm just surprised that this particular recruiter seemed to *have* a 
clue about the subject in question. Usually you get the strong 
impression while talking to these people that they have no idea what the 
hell the stuff on your CV means, they're just trying to see if it looks 
similar to the stuff on the job spec. This recruiter seemed to 
understand what I'm talking about...

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Invisible wrote:
> This recruiter seemed to understand what I'm talking about...

That's a good recruiter, then. You can probably use the "industry standard" 
line on them, and explain you don't want to give a number because you don't 
know anything about the job.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

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Invisible wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> Whoever is the first to give a number loses.
> 
> Just like in fighting...
> 

Not necessarily so. In judo there is a saying that the first person to 
take hold, wins.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:29:46 +0100, Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
> In judo there is a saying that the first person to take hold, wins.

http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2009/9/23/how-to-riff-on-an-idea.html



-- 
FE

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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:29:46 +0100, Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
>> In judo there is a saying that the first person to take hold, wins.
> 
>
http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2009/9/23/how-to-riff-on-an-idea.html 
> 

That was quick :-)

Yes a riff or as people with an education say "reductio ad absurdum" :-P
But then the first move can instigate a counter move which if you know 
that it is coming can open the opportunity for a counter-counter move 
und so weiter.


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 18-2-2010 18:56, Stephen wrote:
> Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:29:46 +0100, Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
>>> In judo there is a saying that the first person to take hold, wins.
>>
>>
http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2009/9/23/how-to-riff-on-an-idea.html 
>>
> 
> That was quick :-)
> 
> Yes a riff or as people with an education say "reductio ad absurdum" :-P
> But then the first move can instigate a counter move which if you know 
> that it is coming can open the opportunity for a counter-counter move 
> und so weiter.

There is that. Also you get penalized for not moving so 2 judo masters 
may both move a bit while keeping fully balanced continually.
If both are good enough for the arms race mentioned above you may even 
start some sort of complicated dance until one sees an opportunity he or 
she thinks the other one missed. (One of the reasons why I don't dance).
In big tournaments the whole idea of judo is perverted and mainly 
reduced to a fight who gets the best grip on the other persons jacket. 
(One of the reasons why I never compete in a tournament)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Hooookay, so what's the average salary for a system administrator?
> 
> The first site claims that 90% of all jobs offer more than £26k.

I told them I was hoping to earn somewhere around £28k.

Amusing fact: If I get this job and they actually pay £28k, this will 
constitute a 100% pay rise for me - the largest pay rise I've ever 
received. (By a mile...)

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> I told them I was hoping to earn somewhere around £28k.
>
> Amusing fact: If I get this job and they actually pay £28k, this will 
> constitute a 100% pay rise for me - the largest pay rise I've ever 
> received. (By a mile...)

Good luck - not many people manage a 100% pay rise when switching jobs.

But the real negotiation on salary will be between you and the employer 
(rather than the agency) once they decided to offer you the job.  Whatever 
you do, don't agree to the first number they offer you just because it's a 
lot more than you are getting now.  Remember, every extra 1K you bargain for 
is an extra 1K per year for life.

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scott wrote:

> Good luck - not many people manage a 100% pay rise when switching jobs.

Not many people are as underpaid as me in the first place. ;-)

...oh, wait. This is a BAD thing. o_O

> But the real negotiation on salary will be between you and the employer 
> (rather than the agency) once they decided to offer you the job.

The real negatiation is persuading them that they should hire me in the 
first place. :-/

> Whatever you do, don't agree to the first number they offer you just 
> because it's a lot more than you are getting now.  Remember, every extra 
> 1K you bargain for is an extra 1K per year for life.

Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)

It'll be nice if I can actually get this job. (From what I've read so 
far, it sounds pretty ideal.) OTOH, I guess I'll have to go back to 
actually *doing* some work. Rather than, say, lurking on 
povray.off-topic, surfing Wikipedia, or implementing fractal image 
compression algorithms...

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On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:44:33 +0100, scott wrote:

> Good luck - not many people manage a 100% pay rise when switching jobs.

That largely has to do with where you are in the pay scale, though - 
those at the lower end of the scale tend to be more successful with that 
than those at the higher end of the scale.

Jim

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Invisible wrote:
> Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)

Not really.  Remember how everyone keeps asking you what you're making at 
*this* job?  That doesn't stop after the second job.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

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Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)
> 
> Not really.  Remember how everyone keeps asking you what you're making 
> at *this* job?  That doesn't stop after the second job.

I don't follow.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>>> Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)
>>
>> Not really.  Remember how everyone keeps asking you what you're making 
>> at *this* job?  That doesn't stop after the second job.
> 
> I don't follow.

Let's say at your second job you make 30K. You work there a couple years, 
then decide for whatever reason to leave. You talk to a recruiter. What 
question does he ask?  "How much are you making now?"

Now, let's say at your second job you make 40K.

In which situation is it more likely you'll find a job making 35K for your 
third job?  When the recruiter asks "How much are you making now?", they're 
asking because they're using that as a basis for which jobs to look at, and 
as a tool for telling the employer how much you're likely to accept.

For the same reason that you're unlikely to go from a $25K job to a $100K 
job, you're also unlikely to go from a $100K job to a $25K job.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

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