On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:29:46 +0100, Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
> In judo there is a saying that the first person to take hold, wins.

http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2009/9/23/how-to-riff-on-an-idea.html



-- 
FE

Post a reply to this message

Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:29:46 +0100, Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
>> In judo there is a saying that the first person to take hold, wins.
> 
>
http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2009/9/23/how-to-riff-on-an-idea.html 
> 

That was quick :-)

Yes a riff or as people with an education say "reductio ad absurdum" :-P
But then the first move can instigate a counter move which if you know 
that it is coming can open the opportunity for a counter-counter move 
und so weiter.


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 18-2-2010 18:56, Stephen wrote:
> Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:29:46 +0100, Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
>>> In judo there is a saying that the first person to take hold, wins.
>>
>>
http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2009/9/23/how-to-riff-on-an-idea.html 
>>
> 
> That was quick :-)
> 
> Yes a riff or as people with an education say "reductio ad absurdum" :-P
> But then the first move can instigate a counter move which if you know 
> that it is coming can open the opportunity for a counter-counter move 
> und so weiter.

There is that. Also you get penalized for not moving so 2 judo masters 
may both move a bit while keeping fully balanced continually.
If both are good enough for the arms race mentioned above you may even 
start some sort of complicated dance until one sees an opportunity he or 
she thinks the other one missed. (One of the reasons why I don't dance).
In big tournaments the whole idea of judo is perverted and mainly 
reduced to a fight who gets the best grip on the other persons jacket. 
(One of the reasons why I never compete in a tournament)

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Hooookay, so what's the average salary for a system administrator?
> 





constitute a 100% pay rise for me - the largest pay rise I've ever 
received. (By a mile...)

Post a reply to this message

>

> constitute a 100% pay rise for me - the largest pay rise I've ever 
> received. (By a mile...)

Good luck - not many people manage a 100% pay rise when switching jobs.

But the real negotiation on salary will be between you and the employer 
(rather than the agency) once they decided to offer you the job.  Whatever 
you do, don't agree to the first number they offer you just because it's a 
lot more than you are getting now.  Remember, every extra 1K you bargain for 
is an extra 1K per year for life.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:

> Good luck - not many people manage a 100% pay rise when switching jobs.

Not many people are as underpaid as me in the first place. ;-)

...oh, wait. This is a BAD thing. o_O

> But the real negotiation on salary will be between you and the employer 
> (rather than the agency) once they decided to offer you the job.

The real negatiation is persuading them that they should hire me in the 
first place. :-/

> Whatever you do, don't agree to the first number they offer you just 
> because it's a lot more than you are getting now.  Remember, every extra 
> 1K you bargain for is an extra 1K per year for life.

Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)

It'll be nice if I can actually get this job. (From what I've read so 
far, it sounds pretty ideal.) OTOH, I guess I'll have to go back to 
actually *doing* some work. Rather than, say, lurking on 
povray.off-topic, surfing Wikipedia, or implementing fractal image 
compression algorithms...

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:44:33 +0100, scott wrote:

> Good luck - not many people manage a 100% pay rise when switching jobs.

That largely has to do with where you are in the pay scale, though - 
those at the lower end of the scale tend to be more successful with that 
than those at the higher end of the scale.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)

Not really.  Remember how everyone keeps asking you what you're making at 
*this* job?  That doesn't stop after the second job.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)
> 
> Not really.  Remember how everyone keeps asking you what you're making 
> at *this* job?  That doesn't stop after the second job.

I don't follow.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>>> Or until they fire me, more like. ;-)
>>
>> Not really.  Remember how everyone keeps asking you what you're making 
>> at *this* job?  That doesn't stop after the second job.
> 
> I don't follow.

Let's say at your second job you make 30K. You work there a couple years, 
then decide for whatever reason to leave. You talk to a recruiter. What 
question does he ask?  "How much are you making now?"

Now, let's say at your second job you make 40K.

In which situation is it more likely you'll find a job making 35K for your 
third job?  When the recruiter asks "How much are you making now?", they're 
asking because they're using that as a basis for which jobs to look at, and 
as a tool for telling the employer how much you're likely to accept.

For the same reason that you're unlikely to go from a $25K job to a $100K 
job, you're also unlikely to go from a $100K job to a $25K job.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

Post a reply to this message