Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Neeum Zawan wrote:
>>  > Entrapment, though, is something I generally feel should be illegal.
> 
>> Entrapment already is illegal. However, buying drugs from a drug dealer 
>> isn't entrapment.
> 
>> Entrapment is when the cop tells you to do something you know would 
>> otherwise be illegal, then punishes you for it. Entrapment would be a cop 
>> waving you through a red light, then giving you a ticket for going thru a 
>> red light.
> 
>   A cop buying drugs is not entrapment, but a cop *selling* drugs (in order
> to arrest the people who buy them) would be, wouldn't it? Or a cop posing
> as a prostitute to arrest people who try to buy her services (at least in
> places where that's illegal).
> 

Should the police officer posing as a drug dealer take a hesitant
customer, tell them they are a cop and will get busted for buying even
when they haven't, convince the person to buy drugs to do something else
for the cop, and then bust them for buying and what ever else they had
them do; that would be entrapment.

Entrapment is a cop, or another official of the state, convincing a
person to commit a crime by using their position as part of the state to
influence the person. In the case of an undercover cop, no entrapment
because the person is not unduly influenced.

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Warp wrote:
>   A cop buying drugs is not entrapment, but a cop *selling* drugs (in order
> to arrest the people who buy them) would be, wouldn't it? Or a cop posing
> as a prostitute to arrest people who try to buy her services (at least in
> places where that's illegal).

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Basically, if he 
says "I'm a cop, and this is OK, I authorize you to do this", then it would 
be entrapment.

That's my understanding, but as I said, I have nothing more than heresay 
recollections about this, etc.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
   I get "focus follows gaze"?

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Sabrina Kilian <ski### [at] vtedu> wrote:
> Entrapment is a cop, or another official of the state, convincing a
> person to commit a crime by using their position as part of the state to
> influence the person. In the case of an undercover cop, no entrapment
> because the person is not unduly influenced.

  So you are saying that if a cop identifies himself as a police officer
and then lures someone to commit a crime, it's entrapment, but if the cop
does not identify himself as such, then it's not entrapment?

  I don't think that's how entrapment is defined in the US or any other
country.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> >   A cop buying drugs is not entrapment, but a cop *selling* drugs (in order
> > to arrest the people who buy them) would be, wouldn't it? Or a cop posing
> > as a prostitute to arrest people who try to buy her services (at least in
> > places where that's illegal).

> I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Basically, if he 
> says "I'm a cop, and this is OK, I authorize you to do this", then it would 
> be entrapment.

  Wouldn't that mean that the police can lure anybody to do a crime with
impunity as long as they don't identify themselves as the police?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 26-1-2010 22:12, Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>>   A cop buying drugs is not entrapment, but a cop *selling* drugs (in order
>>> to arrest the people who buy them) would be, wouldn't it? Or a cop posing
>>> as a prostitute to arrest people who try to buy her services (at least in
>>> places where that's illegal).
> 
>> I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Basically, if he 
>> says "I'm a cop, and this is OK, I authorize you to do this", then it would 
>> be entrapment.
> 
>   Wouldn't that mean that the police can lure anybody to do a crime with
> impunity as long as they don't identify themselves as the police?

Yes, at least in the US. From your question I assume that this is not 
the case in Finland.

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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> On 26-1-2010 22:12, Warp wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> Warp wrote:
> >>>   A cop buying drugs is not entrapment, but a cop *selling* drugs (in order
> >>> to arrest the people who buy them) would be, wouldn't it? Or a cop posing
> >>> as a prostitute to arrest people who try to buy her services (at least in
> >>> places where that's illegal).
> > 
> >> I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Basically, if he 
> >> says "I'm a cop, and this is OK, I authorize you to do this", then it would 
> >> be entrapment.
> > 
> >   Wouldn't that mean that the police can lure anybody to do a crime with
> > impunity as long as they don't identify themselves as the police?

> Yes, at least in the US.

  That seems to make the whole "entrapment" notion kind of moot.

> From your question I assume that this is not the case in Finland.

  Recently there was a law proposal to allow undercover police officers to
perform minor crimes (such as pilferage) to keep their disguise while
undercover (the losses to the victim being compensated by the government
afterwards). I don't remember if it passed or not.

  I suppose that tells something about how limited the actions of law
enforcement is.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 26-1-2010 22:26, Warp wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> On 26-1-2010 22:12, Warp wrote:
>>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> Warp wrote:
>>>>>   A cop buying drugs is not entrapment, but a cop *selling* drugs (in order
>>>>> to arrest the people who buy them) would be, wouldn't it? Or a cop posing
>>>>> as a prostitute to arrest people who try to buy her services (at least in
>>>>> places where that's illegal).
>>>> I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Basically, if he 
>>>> says "I'm a cop, and this is OK, I authorize you to do this", then it would 
>>>> be entrapment.
>>>   Wouldn't that mean that the police can lure anybody to do a crime with
>>> impunity as long as they don't identify themselves as the police?
> 
>> Yes, at least in the US.
> 
>   That seems to make the whole "entrapment" notion kind of moot.

Not really. A policeman cannot say to somebody: "my friend here needs 
weed for medicinal purposes and if you can get him that, I'll look the 
other way" and then arrest. But he is allowed to say "I need it as 
medicine" as long as he is not identifiable as an officer.

We might think that is almost the same, but in the US the concept is 
apparently that in the latter case the person framed would under other 
circumstances also perform this crime.

> 
>> From your question I assume that this is not the case in Finland.
> 
>   Recently there was a law proposal to allow undercover police officers to
> perform minor crimes (such as pilferage) to keep their disguise while
> undercover (the losses to the victim being compensated by the government
> afterwards). I don't remember if it passed or not.
> 
>   I suppose that tells something about how limited the actions of law
> enforcement is.

Sort of the same as here.

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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> >   That seems to make the whole "entrapment" notion kind of moot.

> Not really. A policeman cannot say to somebody: "my friend here needs 
> weed for medicinal purposes and if you can get him that, I'll look the 
> other way" and then arrest. But he is allowed to say "I need it as 
> medicine" as long as he is not identifiable as an officer.

  If he says "I'm a doctor and my friend here needs weed", then it is ok?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 26-1-2010 23:19, Warp wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>>   That seems to make the whole "entrapment" notion kind of moot.
> 
>> Not really. A policeman cannot say to somebody: "my friend here needs 
>> weed for medicinal purposes and if you can get him that, I'll look the 
>> other way" and then arrest. But he is allowed to say "I need it as 
>> medicine" as long as he is not identifiable as an officer.
> 
>   If he says "I'm a doctor and my friend here needs weed", then it is ok?
> 
Yes, because he is not giving the impression that he has the authority 
to arrest but won't. So he can legally arrest the poor guy. (at least 
that is how I understand US law as a foreigner).

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On 01/26/10 10:12, Darren New wrote:
> Neeum Zawan wrote:
>> Entrapment, though, is something I generally feel should be illegal.
> 
> Entrapment already is illegal. However, buying drugs from a drug dealer
> isn't entrapment.

	Except, apparently, when the Feds convince you to blow something up,
and provide all the materials, too.

> Entrapment is when the cop tells you to do something you know would
> otherwise be illegal, then punishes you for it. Entrapment would be a

	Sounds like the above.


-- 
"Graphic Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."

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