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So someone's laptop "broke" and won't switch on (yes I've tried everything
but nothing works) and they need some files off it. I've got the HD out,
it's a 2.5" SATA with standard connections. Only problem is it's encrypted
using 3rd party software. If I connect the drive to another machine and
boot it I can get past the decryption window and it starts to boot windows
off the drive but then blue screens (I suspect due to radically different
hardware). Trying to boot in safe mode (and all the other options from the
F8 menu) does the same.
Any ideas how I can get any files off this drive? What I really need is
some way in the F8 window to say "now run a different windows installation
from a different drive" - that doesn't seem to be possible though.
There is an option in the encryption software screen to boot from floppy
rather than the HD, so maybe I'll end up buying a floppy drive and trying
that way. Any ideas how to make a floppy that just runs my Vista
installation? (or gives me command line to copy files between NTFS drives?).
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scott wrote:
> So someone's laptop "broke" and won't switch on (yes I've tried
> everything but nothing works) and they need some files off it. I've got
> the HD out, it's a 2.5" SATA with standard connections. Only problem is
> it's encrypted using 3rd party software. If I connect the drive to
> another machine and boot it I can get past the decryption window and it
> starts to boot windows off the drive but then blue screens (I suspect
> due to radically different hardware). Trying to boot in safe mode (and
> all the other options from the F8 menu) does the same.
>
> Any ideas how I can get any files off this drive?
Ouch.
If it were me, I'd probably try taking an image of the entire drive, and
then trying to find a way to decrypt it. But I don't suppose for a
moment that this 3rd party software happens to offer offline decryption
as a feature. (Indeed, given what the software is supposed to do, I
guess that would be an "anti-feature"...)
I don't suppose it stays up long enough for the network stack to be
initialised so you can grab the files over the network?
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On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:40:44 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scott com> wrote:
> Any ideas how to make a floppy that just runs my Vista installation? (or
> gives me command line to copy files between NTFS drives?).
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4622
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/grubconf-for-windows-vista-or-xp-dual-boot
--
FE
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scott wrote:
>
> There is an option in the encryption software screen to boot from floppy
> rather than the HD, so maybe I'll end up buying a floppy drive and
> trying that way. Any ideas how to make a floppy that just runs my Vista
> installation? (or gives me command line to copy files between NTFS
> drives?).
>
After solving this, make sure to remind your customer of backups :).
-Aero
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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> After solving this, make sure to remind your customer of backups :).
Yeah, but... it's a laptop, isn't it? By definition, it's usually far,
far away from anywhere you could make a backup copy. ;-)
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Invisible wrote:
>
> Yeah, but... it's a laptop, isn't it? By definition, it's usually far,
> far away from anywhere you could make a backup copy. ;-)
Ummm.. no? Laptops usually tend to eg, *come home* with theier owners
etc and one can back them up. And you know what else exists? The...
*damdamdamdamdam*... INTERNET! One can back the laptop up *over the
network*. So, backups are far from impossible - it's just people don't
realize that just they might need them some day.
-Aero
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> Ummm.. no? Laptops usually tend to eg, *come home* with theier owners
> etc and one can back them up. And you know what else exists? The...
> *damdamdamdamdam*... INTERNET! One can back the laptop up *over the
> network*. So, backups are far from impossible - it's just people don't
> realize that just they might need them some day.
This is only vaild in theory. Sorry. The fastest DSL I can get has an
upstream of 384 kbit/s (48 kB/s).
Try to backup 40 GB this way - it will take about 10 days.
I would suggest an external HDD for backup.
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TC wrote:
>
> This is only vaild in theory. Sorry. The fastest DSL I can get has an
> upstream of 384 kbit/s (48 kB/s).
>
> Try to backup 40 GB this way - it will take about 10 days.
Well yes, obviously incremental backups are more than reasonable choice
on this level, I still wouldn't call it simply impossible.
> I would suggest an external HDD for backup.
So would I, actually. And yes, that also can be carried along with the
laptop itself (remembering that Andy stated backing laptop up as
impossible, 'cause it's moving around the globe continously), I didn't
even think about that at first.
-Aero
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>> There is an option in the encryption software screen to boot from floppy
>> rather than the HD, so maybe I'll end up buying a floppy drive and
>> trying that way. Any ideas how to make a floppy that just runs my Vista
>> installation? (or gives me command line to copy files between NTFS
>> drives?).
Thanks for all the suggestions, actually I found an old PC with a floppy
drive, so installed that in my desktop machine and hooked up the encrypted
drive. I told the encryption software to boot from floppy and then tried a
variety of boot disks.
Finally I found "The All In One Boot Floppy" to be most helpful, it allowed
me to boot my Vista partition without restarting, but unfortunately Vista
still saw the drive as encrypted (I guess it somehow bypasses whatever
decryption software was installed). Anyway, as the user only needed a
handful of files I could use the NTFS4DOS command line tools to copy over
the needed files to a memory stick - very slowly. However it didn't work
for some files (I don't know why) so I found another program called NTFS
Reader that copied them over even slower (about 1 hour for a 100 MB file!!).
It worked though.
> After solving this, make sure to remind your customer of backups :).
Hehe, this was a colleague, and actually him having made a backup 2 weeks
ago is pretty unusual. Maybe it's just my company, or the Japanese in
general, but all secondees that come here seem to have the mentality of
storing everything only on their PC for "security" - it's a bit screwed, is
it bad for me to secretly hope one of them loses everything one day?
The issue is that most people have their Outlook pst files as their most
valuable posession, and to backup the pst files you need to quit Outlook -
not many people here like having Outlook turned off for 30 mins while
several Gbs of files are copied to the server each day.
Geez, this isn't even meant to be my job, it's just the IT people are far
away and don't really do much.
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scott wrote:
> The issue is that most people have their Outlook pst files as their most
> valuable posession, and to backup the pst files you need to quit Outlook
Not true. Just make a shadow copy, and back up the shadow copy. It's pretty
easy.
> - not many people here like having Outlook turned off for 30 mins while
> several Gbs of files are copied to the server each day.
What, they don't go to sleep?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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>> The issue is that most people have their Outlook pst files as their
>> most valuable posession, and to backup the pst files you need to quit
>> Outlook
>
> Not true. Just make a shadow copy, and back up the shadow copy. It's
> pretty easy.
OOC, how do you actually do this?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> The issue is that most people have their Outlook pst files as their
>>> most valuable posession, and to backup the pst files you need to quit
>>> Outlook
>>
>> Not true. Just make a shadow copy, and back up the shadow copy. It's
>> pretty easy.
>
> OOC, how do you actually do this?
The only trick is that vshadow will make a shadow copy, and then delete it
when your script exits. So this sets up some environment variables and calls
vshadow -nw -p -script=XYZ.bat -exec=PDQ.bat c:
That creates a shadow copy of C:, writes bunch of environment variables
into XYZ.bat that describes where it put the shadow copy, then runs PDQ.bat.
In this case, the script that invokes vshadow is the PDQ script, so after it
invokes vshadow, it sources the temporary script to set the environment
variables[1] and deletes it and goes to the end of the script. At the
beginning, it tests if we're in the callback (looking at CALLBACK_SCRIPT)
and goes to IS_CALLBACK if so. (This obviously would have been more clear as
two scripts, but I never really expected to write a tutorial about it.)
If it's running as the callback, it sources the generated script full of
environment variables, calls vshadow again to connect SHADOW_ID_1 to B:. It
then runs robocopy to back up \users\darren to m:\darren with robocopy.
When robocopy finishes, it falls off the end of the script, which returns to
the first callback, which sources the environment variables into *that*
script and jumps to EOF, which then invokes vshadow to delete the shadow
copy (which also unhooks B: from anything).
Kind of convoluted, but as you might guess, I'm not the original author.
Looking at it again, I realize what one really wants is to just stick :EOF
after the first invocation and be done, and let the return delete the shadow
copy.
[1] MS clearly hasn't caught on to the whole "environment variables get
passed in memory" concept yet.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'backup darren.bat.txt' (3 KB)
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> Not true. Just make a shadow copy, and back up the shadow copy. It's
> pretty easy.
OK will check your later post in more detail on how to do this - could be
very useful.
>> - not many people here like having Outlook turned off for 30 mins while
>> several Gbs of files are copied to the server each day.
>
> What, they don't go to sleep?
Nearly everyone here takes their laptop home with them each night, and I
don't know how many of them would leave their laptop on every night "just"
to do backups. Besides, home internet is usually very limited upstream,
it's going to take a while.
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scott wrote:
>> Not true. Just make a shadow copy, and back up the shadow copy. It's
>> pretty easy.
>
> OK will check your later post in more detail on how to do this - could
> be very useful.
Yah.
>> What, they don't go to sleep?
>
> Nearly everyone here takes their laptop home with them each night, and I
> don't know how many of them would leave their laptop on every night
> "just" to do backups.
So have a script they start before they turn it off at night that does the
backup then shuts down the machine.
Or tell them that if they break the computer, they lose all the work they
did since last time they left it at work. Their choice. :-)
> Besides, home internet is usually very limited
> upstream, it's going to take a while.
You only have to move changed files. How much are they going to change when
they take it home after work and before sleep?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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> So have a script they start before they turn it off at night that does the
> backup then shuts down the machine.
That's a good idea.
> You only have to move changed files. How much are they going to change
> when they take it home after work and before sleep?
I imagine they are only going to change a few emails, but some people have
sevreal multi-GB pst files for Outlook which I guess would need to be sent
to the server even if they are 99% the same?
Anyway, it seems as if the volume copy solution will work. I was playing
about today and seems as if even a few PST files making up 10 GB will copy
within a few minutes to our server here - while Outlook was running with
them open.
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>>> Not true. Just make a shadow copy, and back up the shadow copy. It's
>>> pretty easy.
>>
>> OOC, how do you actually do this?
>
> The only trick is that vshadow will make a shadow copy, and then delete
> it when your script exits. [...]
So vshadow is the tool for working with Shadow Copy?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb530725%28VS.85%29.aspx
OK, I've never heard of this tool before. Time to start reading...
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scott wrote:
>> So have a script they start before they turn it off at night that does
>> the backup then shuts down the machine.
>
> That's a good idea.
BTDT. :-)
>> You only have to move changed files. How much are they going to change
>> when they take it home after work and before sleep?
>
> I imagine they are only going to change a few emails, but some people
> have sevreal multi-GB pst files for Outlook which I guess would need to
> be sent to the server even if they are 99% the same?
Uhhh. Probably, yeah. I'm not sure if you're using Exchange why you'd be
storing the definitive version of .pst files on the laptop. Why not store
them on the exchange server?
The unix rsync utility has the capability of doing a checksum of the
destination file and of the beginning of the source file and only copying
the end if those two checksums are the same. If Outlook mostly appends, you
might want to consider something like this.
> Anyway, it seems as if the volume copy solution will work.
I'm glad. It's a bit of a bugger to track down vshadow.exe, but it sounds
like you got it going. The /Z option to robocopy is handy too.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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Invisible wrote:
> So vshadow is the tool for working with Shadow Copy?
Well, it's the command-line utility for it. Most people code the API calls
into their program, but if you just want shell scripts, you can use the
sample command-line utility out of the resource kit, which is called vshadow.
It's a bit annoying to find the executables, but it is free. I suspect you
need different versions for different OSes.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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Darren New wrote:
>
> Uhhh. Probably, yeah. I'm not sure if you're using Exchange why you'd be
> storing the definitive version of .pst files on the laptop. Why not
> store them on the exchange server?
>
And if using $something_else, just use IMAP and you'll have copies of
mails at the server.
-Aero
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>> So vshadow is the tool for working with Shadow Copy?
>
> Well, it's the command-line utility for it. Most people code the API
> calls into their program, but if you just want shell scripts, you can
> use the sample command-line utility out of the resource kit, which is
> called vshadow.
>
> It's a bit annoying to find the executables, but it is free. I suspect
> you need different versions for different OSes.
Right. So what you're saying is that when you use a real backup product,
it probably uses VSS to do its work without stopping people using their
stuff? (But you can also use vshadow if you have nothing better...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Right. So what you're saying is that when you use a real backup product,
> it probably uses VSS to do its work without stopping people using their
> stuff? (But you can also use vshadow if you have nothing better...)
Exactly.
Incidentally, I suspect Outlook is probably a VSS Writer, so when you start
making the shadow copy, Outlook instances get told to finish what they're
doing and flush any half-read messages out to disk (for example) so your
restored file will still be correct, or at least usable. I'd be surprised if
MS didn't bother to make that work in Outlook after doing all the work in
VSS to support it.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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> Uhhh. Probably, yeah. I'm not sure if you're using Exchange why you'd be
> storing the definitive version of .pst files on the laptop. Why not store
> them on the exchange server?
Because we only get allocated a certain amount of space on Exchange, and
most people quickly go over that limit within a few months of emails.
Everyone I know that works here moves files off into local PSTs to be able
to keep emails longer than that (which is essential in this job). Some
people keep one huge PST (which I think is a bad idea) others like me have
several PST files for different areas of the job, and the big ones I usually
split up by year or even by quarter if there is a large volume of data.
> I'm glad. It's a bit of a bugger to track down vshadow.exe, but it sounds
> like you got it going. The /Z option to robocopy is handy too.
I got vshadow from the vss sdk which was a small free download from MS. So
far I've just been hacking about with the standard copy command to check
that vshadow works, will look into robocopy later, it's on my list of things
I know are possible but just need to be implemented now :-)
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scott wrote:
>> Uhhh. Probably, yeah. I'm not sure if you're using Exchange why you'd
>> be storing the definitive version of .pst files on the laptop. Why not
>> store them on the exchange server?
>
> Because we only get allocated a certain amount of space on Exchange, and
> most people quickly go over that limit within a few months of emails.
> Everyone I know that works here moves files off into local PSTs to be
> able to keep emails longer than that (which is essential in this job).
> Some people keep one huge PST (which I think is a bad idea) others like
> me have several PST files for different areas of the job, and the big
> ones I usually split up by year or even by quarter if there is a large
> volume of data.
We have this exact brain-deadness where I work.
Everybody is limited to 500MB of email. Most people have, like, 5MB or
less, but a few people have multiple gigabytes of stuff. Apparently
we're running out of space on our Exchange server, so the 500MB limit is
rigidly enforced. (Why they don't just buy a bit more storage space is
beyond me...) Thus, instead of mail on the Exchange server, people end
up archiving it into PST files.
Now let's think about this for a moment. If your mail is on the central
Exchange server:
- It is centrally stored on the Exchange server.
- It is protected by RAID technology.
- It is backed up every single day.
- Deligates can be given access to it.
- Multiple people can access it at once.
- You can audit who accesses what, when, and how often.
- Accidentally deleted messages can be recovered. (Apparently there are
now *two* levels of online restore: the trash folder, and a "recover
deleted email" option after that.)
- If your PC breaks, you can go access it from another PC.
- If you're out on the road and your laptop dies, you just find an
Internet cafe and fire up Outlook Web Access.
Hell, if you wanted to retreive an email you deleted last year, there's
a good chance we can get it back from last year's tapes. (And we *can*
restore just that one single email, not your entire mailbox.)
Now let us consider the situation with PST files:
- The email now exists in a single flat file.
- This file is almost always on the local harddrive, not the server.
- If that PC has a problem... no RAID, no backups, goodbye data.
- Only one person can access a PST file at a time.
- PST files are easy to lose. Reset somebody's user profile, "hey, where
did all my mail go?" "Do you know where you put the PST file?" "What's a
PST file?"
- "I found this huge temp file so I deleted it. Where's all my email gone?"
- You give somebody a new PC. A month later they complain that they're
missing their archived email. Oh, sorry, I already wiped your old PC.
Need I continue?
And yet, Corporate IT are adamant that using PST files is a Very Good
Idea. *sigh*
Still, I guess that's why we paid thousands of dollars for an Exchange
license, right? So that we could manage our mail in flat files. :-P
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> Hell, if you wanted to retreive an email you deleted last year, there's a
> good chance we can get it back from last year's tapes. (And we *can*
> restore just that one single email, not your entire mailbox.)
I asked our IT people about this last week (regarding the OP), and
apparently once you move a message off the Exchange server to a local pst
file there is no way to get it back. They might be just making that up
though.
> Need I continue?
- Outlook only lets you search in one PST file at a time, so if you are
looking for something but don't remember exactly which PST file it is (maybe
you split them by date) then have fun!
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>> Hell, if you wanted to retreive an email you deleted last year,
>> there's a good chance we can get it back from last year's tapes. (And
>> we *can* restore just that one single email, not your entire mailbox.)
>
> I asked our IT people about this last week (regarding the OP), and
> apparently once you move a message off the Exchange server to a local
> pst file there is no way to get it back. They might be just making that
> up though.
As far as I'm aware, it's quite possible to move email messages between
PST files, or between a PST file and an Exchange server, in any direction.
(I actually did this to give one person access to certain subfolders of
somebody else's mailbox. Export into a PST file, log in as the other
user, import all the mail back.)
> - Outlook only lets you search in one PST file at a time, so if you are
> looking for something but don't remember exactly which PST file it is
> (maybe you split them by date) then have fun!
Ooo, I didn't know that...
(I never, ever, use PST files!)
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> As far as I'm aware, it's quite possible to move email messages between
> PST files, or between a PST file and an Exchange server, in any direction.
I meant if you move a message to a PST file, then lose the PST file somehow,
it's impossible to get back the original message. I guess it's unlikely the
Exchange server was backed up between you receiving the message and moving
it out to a PST file. Or maybe there's a hidden "deleted mail" folder for
messages that are *moved* rather than deleted? IDK.
> (I never, ever, use PST files!)
Well yes, you're the IT guy, so by definition the company limit on Exchange
mailbox size is probably the size of your mailbox plus a bit :-)
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>> As far as I'm aware, it's quite possible to move email messages
>> between PST files, or between a PST file and an Exchange server, in
>> any direction.
>
> I meant if you move a message to a PST file, then lose the PST file
> somehow, it's impossible to get back the original message.
That would seem likely, yes.
As I understand it, if you delete an item, it goes to the Deleted Items
folder. When you empty this, the item is retained for a further X days
(defined by the Exchange administrator). After this, it is *really* deleted.
If the stuff is still in Deleted Items, just move it back. If you've
emptied that, there's still a "Recover Deleted Item" menu item hidden
somewhere which lets you resurrect it (without needing to call the
server admin).
I would imagine if you most an item to a PST file, you can still recover
it via the menu command. But I could be wrong.
At any rate, X days after you moved the item to the PST file, it will
*definitely* be gone from the server, and that's the end of that.
(Although if the data was on the server a long time, it's probably on
backup tape somewhere...)
>> (I never, ever, use PST files!)
>
> Well yes, you're the IT guy, so by definition the company limit on
> Exchange mailbox size is probably the size of your mailbox plus a bit :-)
The size limit is 500MB. My mailbox is 108KB, currently.
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> I would imagine if you most an item to a PST file, you can still recover
> it via the menu command. But I could be wrong.
Oh I didn't know about that, I found this after some searching:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/outlook/HA011165281033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033
Seems our server keeps stuff for 7 days, and yes it works for *moved*
messages too. So in this case I think a PST backup once a week should be
sufficient here...
> The size limit is 500MB. My mailbox is 108KB, currently.
I guess you don't have too many emails to keep then.
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>> I would imagine if you most an item to a PST file, you can still
>> recover it via the menu command. But I could be wrong.
>
> Oh I didn't know about that, I found this after some searching:
>
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/outlook/HA011165281033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033
>
> Seems our server keeps stuff for 7 days, and yes it works for *moved*
> messages too. So in this case I think a PST backup once a week should
> be sufficient here...
Heh, nice to know.
>> The size limit is 500MB. My mailbox is 108KB, currently.
>
> I guess you don't have too many emails to keep then.
Yeah, pretty much. ;-)
Let's face it, who talks to me?
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> Let's face it, who talks to me?
I would have thought that as the IT guy for the UK you would have received
quite a lot of emails containing important information, which would be worth
keeping.
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>> Let's face it, who talks to me?
>
> I would have thought that as the IT guy for the UK you would have
> received quite a lot of emails containing important information
You'd hope so, wouldn't you?
> which would be worth keeping.
Indeed...
Actually, any *really* important information, I tend to put into a Word
document or something and then delete the original email. So, for
example, if I want to know our public IP address, I look at my network
diagram rather than hunt down the original email from BT.
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> Actually, any *really* important information, I tend to put into a Word
> document or something and then delete the original email. So, for example,
> if I want to know our public IP address, I look at my network diagram
> rather than hunt down the original email from BT.
Ah ok, makes sense, but I tend to keep the original emails too, incase
anything dodgy happens later and then you can forward them their original
email and say "hey look, you told me this before" :-)
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>> Actually, any *really* important information, I tend to put into a
>> Word document or something and then delete the original email. So, for
>> example, if I want to know our public IP address, I look at my network
>> diagram rather than hunt down the original email from BT.
>
> Ah ok, makes sense, but I tend to keep the original emails too, incase
> anything dodgy happens later and then you can forward them their
> original email and say "hey look, you told me this before" :-)
Indeed. And I still have my boss's email telling me that I need to go
read the Procedure Document for the operation of the water purifier in
the Oregon lab. But once these little political battles are over,
there's usually no reason to keep the email.
The bottom line is, I don't receive much email in the first place.
(Well, ignoring all the auto-generated stuff - which I do!)
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Invisible wrote:
>>> Actually, any *really* important information, I tend to put into a
>>> Word document or something and then delete the original email. So, for
>>> example, if I want to know our public IP address, I look at my network
>>> diagram rather than hunt down the original email from BT.
>>
>> Ah ok, makes sense, but I tend to keep the original emails too, incase
>> anything dodgy happens later and then you can forward them their
>> original email and say "hey look, you told me this before" :-)
>
> Indeed. And I still have my boss's email telling me that I need to go
> read the Procedure Document for the operation of the water purifier in
> the Oregon lab. But once these little political battles are over,
> there's usually no reason to keep the email.
But no reason to delete it either. You're way below your limit.
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> But no reason to delete it either. You're way below your limit.
That's my mentality too, often I have needed to go back and find a series of
emails from a long time ago that relate to the design decisions on some
project which is now having trouble, or that relate to a new or re-design.
Based on my total mailbox size I seem to get about 1GB/year of non-junk
emails, which is low enough to save every single one for ever (maybe not on
our Exchange server, but certainly on my network share and local hard
drive).
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scott wrote:
> Often I have needed to go back and find a
> series of emails from a long time ago that relate to the design
> decisions on some project which is now having trouble, or that relate to
> a new or re-design.
I can see how that could easily be the case for you.
I, on the other hand, am almost never consulted about anything.
Occasionally I get given an order that's obviously stupid, and a small
political battle ensues. But once the battle is over, I no longer need
the email.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> But no reason to delete it either. You're way below your limit.
No *technical* reason. There are political and legal reasons to do so,
however. Altho in Andrew's case, I'd suspect more that there are legal
reasons to *not* delete messages, rather than legal reasons to delete them.
Me, I just save what's useful somewhere I can actually find it, given how
sucky Outlook's search methods are.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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