For years I suspected something was wrong. I never could quite nail it 
down. I looked at many mental illnesses and none quite seemed to fit. I 
finally looked at a description of the symptoms of ADD in an adult.

Oh... my... god... It fit me perfectly. My time in school (high IQ, a 
solid C student) fit, too. It all makes sense. The daydreaming in class, 
the absolute failure to do homework, the "Project graveyard" on my 
computer, the utter lack of ability to actually concentrate on work if 
it wasn't "sexy" enough.

So, I talked to a doctor, he had me fill out a questionnaire and 
interviewed me about my childhood and how I performed in school. He 
prescribed some medication, and ... it's like day and night! I cannot 
believe how easy it is to stay on task, how I can be productive... How I 
can choose appropriate times for leisure.

Anyway... that is, essentially more about me than anyone really wanted 
to know. Now I have to force myself to eat lunch.
-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:

> For years I suspected something was wrong. I never could quite nail it
> down. I looked at many mental illnesses and none quite seemed to fit. I
> finally looked at a description of the symptoms of ADD in an adult.

Isn't another name for ADD "Asperger's Syndrome" (too lazy to go pedia'ing 
at the moment)?

-- 
Stefan Viljoen

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"Mike Raiford" <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:4b05796c@news.povray.org...
> For years I suspected something was wrong. I never could quite nail it 
> down. I looked at many mental illnesses and none quite seemed to fit. I 
> finally looked at a description of the symptoms of ADD in an adult.
>
> Oh... my... god... It fit me perfectly. My time in school (high IQ, a 
> solid C student) fit, too. It all makes sense. The daydreaming in class, 
> the absolute failure to do homework, the "Project graveyard" on my 
> computer, the utter lack of ability to actually concentrate on work if it 
> wasn't "sexy" enough.
>
> So, I talked to a doctor, he had me fill out a questionnaire and 
> interviewed me about my childhood and how I performed in school. He 
> prescribed some medication, and ... it's like day and night! I cannot 
> believe how easy it is to stay on task, how I can be productive... How I 
> can choose appropriate times for leisure.
>
> Anyway... that is, essentially more about me than anyone really wanted to 
> know. Now I have to force myself to eat lunch.
> -- 
> ~Mike

I've been treated for ADD for about ten years now, and I was simply amazed 
at the difference when I first started taking meds for it. Oh, how I wish I 
could go back in time and find that army of school teachers who always said, 
"Jack's smart enough, he just doesn't *apply* himself."

*sigh*

Good for you, hope things continue to improve.

--
Jack

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"Stefan Viljoen" <pov### [at] polardcom> wrote in message 
news:4b057c52@news.povray.org...
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>
>> For years I suspected something was wrong. I never could quite nail it
>> down. I looked at many mental illnesses and none quite seemed to fit. I
>> finally looked at a description of the symptoms of ADD in an adult.
>
> Isn't another name for ADD "Asperger's Syndrome" (too lazy to go pedia'ing
> at the moment)?
>
> -- 
> Stefan Viljoen
>

Aspergers is part of the autism spectrum, which is something else entirely. 
There are a few symptoms of each that bear some similarity, and both are 
more commonly diagnosed in children, but that's about it.

--
Jack

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On 11/19/2009 11:26 AM, Captain Jack wrote:

> could go back in time and find that army of school teachers who always said,
> "Jack's smart enough, he just doesn't *apply* himself."

lol... Just about all of my teachers used that same line...

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> For years I suspected something was wrong. I never could quite nail it
> down. I looked at many mental illnesses and none quite seemed to fit. I
> finally looked at a description of the symptoms of ADD in an adult.
> 
> Oh... my... god... It fit me perfectly. My time in school (high IQ, a
> solid C student) fit, too. It all makes sense. The daydreaming in class,
> the absolute failure to do homework, the "Project graveyard" on my
> computer, the utter lack of ability to actually concentrate on work if
> it wasn't "sexy" enough.
> 
> So, I talked to a doctor, he had me fill out a questionnaire and
> interviewed me about my childhood and how I performed in school. He
> prescribed some medication, and ... it's like day and night! I cannot
> believe how easy it is to stay on task, how I can be productive... How I
> can choose appropriate times for leisure.

Your description seems to fit me too.

I was about to unsubscribe from povray.off-topic *again* so I stop having 
the feeling of "I have to catch up with the 330 unread messages in it" and 
start doing something useful. But I think the time will just transfer to 
Wikipedia or something.

Although currently the main problem I have is with sleep, and the computer.

Staying up till 4 am, regretting it in the "morning" (read: 11am-2pm) when 
it's so hard to get out of bed, then doing it again the next night. At those 
times (3-4am), I feel tired, my eyes hurt, I'm yawning, and yet I *can't get 
the **** off the computer*.

Sometimes I'd get off the computer at, say, 2 am, then go to my bedroom 
and... spend another hour on the internet from my iPod Touch (which is worse 
for my eyes, since it's a tiny screen). A few months ago I configured my 
router to block Wi-Fi access from that MAC address at midnight. And the next 
day I couldn't resist setting it back ._. Recently I blocked it again, and 
it seems to be "working"...

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You found by yourself a neurological disorder affecting you, that's 
remarkable, IO hope things keep getting better for you.

Cheers.

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:

> Anyway... that is, essentially more about me than anyone really wanted 
> to know. Now I have to force myself to eat lunch.

Well done and I hope lunch was good. :)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, I talked to a doctor, he had me fill out a questionnaire and
> interviewed me about my childhood and how I performed in school. He
> prescribed some medication, and ... it's like day and night! I cannot
> believe how easy it is to stay on task, how I can be productive... How I
> can choose appropriate times for leisure.

How much of it would have to do with placebo? ;)

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> For years I suspected something was wrong. I never could quite nail it 
> down. I looked at many mental illnesses and none quite seemed to fit. I 
> finally looked at a description of the symptoms of ADD in an adult.
> 
> Oh... my... god... It fit me perfectly. My time in school (high IQ, a 
> solid C student) fit, too. It all makes sense. The daydreaming in class, 
> the absolute failure to do homework, the "Project graveyard" on my 
> computer, the utter lack of ability to actually concentrate on work if 
> it wasn't "sexy" enough.
> 
> So, I talked to a doctor, he had me fill out a questionnaire and 
> interviewed me about my childhood and how I performed in school. He 
> prescribed some medication, and ... it's like day and night! I cannot 
> believe how easy it is to stay on task, how I can be productive... How I 
> can choose appropriate times for leisure.
> 
> Anyway... that is, essentially more about me than anyone really wanted 
> to know. Now I have to force myself to eat lunch.

Be careful what you wish for.

I'm curious if you'll be happier in six months or just more 
"productive." Keep us updated.

  -Shay

Post a reply to this message

Captain Jack schrieb:

> I've been treated for ADD for about ten years now, and I was simply amazed 
> at the difference when I first started taking meds for it. Oh, how I wish I 
> could go back in time and find that army of school teachers who always said, 
> "Jack's smart enough, he just doesn't *apply* himself."

Hum... how come that all sounds pretty familiar to me?

Maybe I should ask my doctor about it, too.

Post a reply to this message

nemesis schrieb:

> How much of it would have to do with placebo? ;)

Probably nil. ADD med is pretty mean stuff that you should positively 
/not/ take unless you do indeed suffer from ADD. At least that's what I 
heard from a family who has a child suffering from ADD. Something along 
the lines of, their child's single dose would be enough to get a normal 
adult into some serious and possibly life-threatening neurological mess.

Post a reply to this message

On 11/19/09 19:52, clipka wrote:
>> How much of it would have to do with placebo? ;)
>
> Probably nil. ADD med is pretty mean stuff that you should positively
> /not/ take unless you do indeed suffer from ADD. At least that's what I
> heard from a family who has a child suffering from ADD. Something along
> the lines of, their child's single dose would be enough to get a normal
> adult into some serious and possibly life-threatening neurological mess.

	I think he was suggesting that what Mike's taking is a placebo...

-- 
I didn't know my husband drank until one day he came home sober.

Post a reply to this message

On 11/19/09 17:13, Shay wrote:
>> So, I talked to a doctor, he had me fill out a questionnaire and
>> interviewed me about my childhood and how I performed in school. He
>> prescribed some medication, and ... it's like day and night! I cannot
>> believe how easy it is to stay on task, how I can be productive... How
>> I can choose appropriate times for leisure.
>>
>> Anyway... that is, essentially more about me than anyone really wanted
>> to know. Now I have to force myself to eat lunch.
>
> Be careful what you wish for.
>
> I'm curious if you'll be happier in six months or just more
> "productive." Keep us updated.

	I don't think people take ADD medication to be happier. But I guess 
you're referring to being able to do more work may have its downsides?

-- 
I didn't know my husband drank until one day he came home sober.

Post a reply to this message

Neeum Zawan schrieb:
> On 11/19/09 19:52, clipka wrote:
>>> How much of it would have to do with placebo? ;)
>>
>> Probably nil. ADD med is pretty mean stuff that you should positively
>> /not/ take unless you do indeed suffer from ADD. At least that's what I
>> heard from a family who has a child suffering from ADD. Something along
>> the lines of, their child's single dose would be enough to get a normal
>> adult into some serious and possibly life-threatening neurological mess.
> 
>     I think he was suggesting that what Mike's taking is a placebo...

... and I was suggesting that it probably wasn't ;-)

Post a reply to this message

On 11/19/2009 11:36 PM, clipka wrote:
> Neeum Zawan schrieb:
>> On 11/19/09 19:52, clipka wrote:
>>>> How much of it would have to do with placebo? ;)
>>>
>>> Probably nil. ADD med is pretty mean stuff that you should positively
>>> /not/ take unless you do indeed suffer from ADD. At least that's what I
>>> heard from a family who has a child suffering from ADD. Something along
>>> the lines of, their child's single dose would be enough to get a normal
>>> adult into some serious and possibly life-threatening neurological mess.
>>
>> I think he was suggesting that what Mike's taking is a placebo...
>
> ... and I was suggesting that it probably wasn't ;-)

Definitely not. As Christoph suggested, the medication is not exactly 
subtle. There are side effects, I'm mostly aware of an elevated heart 
rate, that and I learned that if I take it too late in the day, I will 
not be able to get to sleep.

As for neurological mess? I dunno ... From what I've read is that a dose 
higher than is needed can cause some very strange behaviors and even 
psychosis, but the dosage I'm on is therapeutic.



-- 
~Mike

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On 11/19/2009 5:13 PM, Shay wrote:

>
> Be careful what you wish for.
>

Right ... But this has been a mystery I've struggled with all my life, 
why it seems I can never follow through on anything, why it took so much 
time for me to read

> I'm curious if you'll be happier in six months or just more
> "productive." Keep us updated.

There are a lot of frustrations with being as unproductive as I was. The 
ability to keep my job is a big deal to me. The ability to function 
while doing everyday tasks is also a big deal. The ability to be able to 
follow through on hobby projects is a big deal.

Yes-- productivity does not mean happiness. The goal is to get myself 
functioning properly. if I had been diagnosed in childhood, my life now 
would definitely be different.

Some of my biggest frustrations are that I'm constantly forgetting 
important things. I tend to say I'll do something and never follow 
through. (That is very frustrating to others around me ...) I sit down 
with every intent to do something really neat, and I fizzle out after a 
couple of days into the project. It's why, if you look, you see a lot of 
starts and works in progress, but really no finished projects.

But, I do certainly understand what you're saying. What I hate right now 
is how when the medication wears off, I lack the focus and drive that I 
had during the day, and go back to being completely scattered.

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

> I sit down with every intent to do something really neat, and I fizzle out 
> after a couple of days into the project. It's why, if you look, you see a 
> lot of starts and works in progress, but really no finished projects.

This is exactly like me too.  I put it down to the fact that I really just 
want to see if a concept is viable or not, I have no interest in making some 
final polished project, I just need to know if I *could* do it.  Once I've 
satisfied that need then I can't really be bothered to carry on, I'd rather 
be looking at something new again.

Post a reply to this message

"Mike Raiford" <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:4b06a783$1@news.povray.org...
> On 11/19/2009 11:36 PM, clipka wrote:
>> Neeum Zawan schrieb:
>>> On 11/19/09 19:52, clipka wrote:
>>>>> How much of it would have to do with placebo? ;)
>>>>
>>>> Probably nil. ADD med is pretty mean stuff that you should positively

One theory of the underlying causes of ADD that I've studied that seems to 
have a lot of merit is that people with the condition have a cerebral cortex 
that runs at a different "speed" from the cerebellum. This causes things to 
be out of sync, in a manner of speaking. One thing that I found out is that 
people with ADD often seem to be clumsy. In my case, I run into walls 
sometimes. What happens is that the part of my brain that analyzes changes 
in condition ("Turn coming up here, need to change direction") processes the 
information too fast. So, my body begins trying to turn the corner slightly 
before I get there, while my brain has moved on to the next problem.

Most ADD medications are stimulants, some of them closely related to 
amphetamines (I take Adderall). What they appear to do for us is to speed up 
the parts of the brain that need to be, so that everything is in sync again. 
This leads to a reduction in stress and tension, so most people with ADD 
find that their medication seems to calm them down, counter-intuitively 
(there are those who think Ritalin makes a person sleepy when using it, for 
example). For people without the condition, they'll act like the strong 
stimulants that they are. Unfortunately, there's a lot of abuse of these 
meds... my understanding is that there are schools where it's popular to try 
to purchase ADD medications to help stay awake to get through final exams.

It would be awfully hard (thought it's certainly not inconceivable) to get a 
placebo to work on someone with ADD. I think you'd have to have the 
condition to appreciate how completely it affects your life. I don't think 
you could get a person who's had ADD/ADHD all his life to understand what it 
would be like to be "normal" well enough to get the placebo to work. It 
really is like stepping through a curtain and realizing that you've been 
seeing the world in a vastly different way from most people. :-)

--
Jack

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>> I sit down with every intent to do something really neat, and I fizzle 
>> out after a couple of days into the project. It's why, if you look, 
>> you see a lot of starts and works in progress, but really no finished 
>> projects.
> 
> This is exactly like me too.  I put it down to the fact that I really 
> just want to see if a concept is viable or not, I have no interest in 
> making some final polished project, I just need to know if I *could* do 
> it.  Once I've satisfied that need then I can't really be bothered to 
> carry on, I'd rather be looking at something new again.

I believe it's traditional to utter "RANDEL, GET OUT OF MY HEAD!" at 
this point.

Except that your name isn't Randel.

http://www.bash.org/?22094

(Sorry, man...)

Post a reply to this message

On 11/20/2009 8:51 AM, scott wrote:
>
> This is exactly like me too. I put it down to the fact that I really
> just want to see if a concept is viable or not, I have no interest in
> making some final polished project, I just need to know if I *could* do
> it. Once I've satisfied that need then I can't really be bothered to
> carry on, I'd rather be looking at something new again.
>


I do this sort of thing, too ... Basically a proof of concept or an 
experiment. What is different is a lot of time I'll start something, get 
going while it's fresh and novel to me (and thus stimulating ...) and 
once the novelty of what I was doing wears off (it can be minutes, hours 
or days) I drop it and find something else stimulating.

Gaming is a funny thing, an example of this was with Portal. I started 
playing it, it was fun, interesting and different. I got to GladDOS and 
and started to lose interest after a few attempts at getting the second 
sphere. I then picked it up again when I saw something related to the 
end song of the game. It was novel again.

I also tend to miss a lot of details, and have great difficulty with 
reading.

-- 
~Mike

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On 11/20/09 08:51, scott wrote:
> This is exactly like me too. I put it down to the fact that I really
> just want to see if a concept is viable or not, I have no interest in

	What I call "The Mathematician's Fallacy".

	A hotel was hosting attendees of a physics conference. A fire broke 
out. The physicists did some complex calculations, calculated the 
trajectory of buckets of water flung from a quickly crafted catapult, 
and successfully were able to land the buckets of water into the fire, 
extinguishing it.

	The next week it was a chemistry conference. Another fire broke out. 
The attendees ran to the kitchen and related utility rooms, and quickly 
crafted a custom made extinguisher. Applied it to the fire, and went 
back to sleep.

	The next week it was a mathematics conference. Yet another fire broke 
out. The attendees ran out of their rooms. Looked around. Saw a fire 
extinguisher hanging by the wall. Declared "A solution exists!". And 
promptly left the building.

	The hotel burned to the ground.

	You come up with a solution, convince yourself that it works, and 
what's left is implementing it, which simply doesn't seem fun to you. 
You weren't actually interested in *solving* the problem. You just 
wanted to figure out *how* it's solved.

-- 
Two robins were sitting in a tree. `I'm really hungry`, said the first
one. `Me, too` said the second. `Let's fly down and find some lunch.`
They flew to the ground and found a nice plot of plowed ground full of
worms. They ate and ate and ate and ate `til they could eat no more.
`I'm so full I don't think I can fly back up to the tree`, said the
first one. `Me either.  Let's just lay here and bask in the warm sun`,
said the second. `O.K.` said the first. They plopped down, basking in
the sun. No sooner than they had fallen asleep, a big fat tom cat snuck
up and gobbled them up. As he sat washing his face after his meal, he
thought, `I just love baskin` robins.`

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On 11/20/09 08:36, Mike Raiford wrote:
> Some of my biggest frustrations are that I'm constantly forgetting
> important things. I tend to say I'll do something and never follow
> through. (That is very frustrating to others around me ...) I sit down
> with every intent to do something really neat, and I fizzle out after a
> couple of days into the project. It's why, if you look, you see a lot of
> starts and works in progress, but really no finished projects.

	Trust me: That's normal for a lot of "normal" people.

-- 
Two robins were sitting in a tree. `I'm really hungry`, said the first
one. `Me, too` said the second. `Let's fly down and find some lunch.`
They flew to the ground and found a nice plot of plowed ground full of
worms. They ate and ate and ate and ate `til they could eat no more.
`I'm so full I don't think I can fly back up to the tree`, said the
first one. `Me either.  Let's just lay here and bask in the warm sun`,
said the second. `O.K.` said the first. They plopped down, basking in
the sun. No sooner than they had fallen asleep, a big fat tom cat snuck
up and gobbled them up. As he sat washing his face after his meal, he
thought, `I just love baskin` robins.`

Post a reply to this message

Neeum Zawan wrote:
>     I don't think people take ADD medication to be happier. But I guess 
> you're referring to being able to do more work may have its downsides?
> 

Increased focus has its downsides.

  -Shay

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> 
> Yes-- productivity does not mean happiness. The goal is to get myself 
> functioning properly. if I had been diagnosed in childhood, my life now 
> would definitely be different.

Different, but not necessarily better. Don't get me wrong, I see 
distraction as a destructive force in the lives of many people around 
me. However, I am very focused, but wasn't even a c student. That 
homework assignment you never got around to doing? I instead tossed it 
in the trash on the way out of class. I never had any intention of 
touching it. I was focused on other things.

When I was in grade school, I had a private desk, facing the wall and 
separated from the other children, in almost every class room. I never 
even earn a High School diploma (but was given one anyway), and ended up 
living under a bridge shortly after my sham graduation. No distractions 
under the bridge. No video games, internet, television, telephone. And 
for me no drugs or alcohol. I was very focused, but not on anything that 
brought me conventional success. I was focused on pushups, walking, and 
writing unpublishable mini-books.

Marriage has "normalized" my life since then, but I'm not sure mine is a 
life you would want. It works for me, but I'm tough enough to shrug off 
the downsides. For everything that's in focus, there are a dozen that 
are off the f***ing radar. A little ADD would make my life easier, but 
not happier.

  -Shay

Post a reply to this message

On 11/21/2009 5:26 AM, Shay wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>>
>> Yes-- productivity does not mean happiness. The goal is to get myself
>> functioning properly. if I had been diagnosed in childhood, my life
>> now would definitely be different.
>
> Different, but not necessarily better. Don't get me wrong, I see
> distraction as a destructive force in the lives of many people around
> me. However, I am very focused, but wasn't even a c student. That
> homework assignment you never got around to doing? I instead tossed it
> in the trash on the way out of class. I never had any intention of
> touching it. I was focused on other things.

I think I understand where you're coming from. You obviously had very 
different priorities. I struggled to get things done and got frustrated 
with myself for letting things slide by being practically incapable of 
sticking to anything for any sustained period of time.

You are right: There are aspects of my current life I would not trade 
for anything. But there's always that looming thought wondering how I 
would have done had I been diagnosed and treated in my childhood. 
Different for sure! Better? Who knows?

> When I was in grade school, I had a private desk, facing the wall and
> separated from the other children, in almost every class room. I never
> even earn a High School diploma (but was given one anyway), and ended up
> living under a bridge shortly after my sham graduation. No distractions
> under the bridge. No video games, internet, television, telephone. And
> for me no drugs or alcohol. I was very focused, but not on anything that
> brought me conventional success. I was focused on pushups, walking, and
> writing unpublishable mini-books.
>
> Marriage has "normalized" my life since then, but I'm not sure mine is a
> life you would want. It works for me, but I'm tough enough to shrug off
> the downsides. For everything that's in focus, there are a dozen that
> are off the f***ing radar. A little ADD would make my life easier, but
> not happier.

I think I agree from the descriptions you have given. I don't think I 
could ever work on an offshore rig. It's just not something I'd ever 
want to do. Its not that the medication will cause me to alter my 
priorities, but rather help me follow through on those priorities.

-- 
~Mike

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