On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:51:05 -0500, Warp wrote:

>   For one, it's not possible to set the taskbar to autohide (I really
>   can't
> understand why). 

Yeah, you can do this - you have to unlock the widgets/taskbar and click 
the cashew on the right end of the task bar.  then select "More Settings" 
and select "Auto-hide".

> For another, it's not possible to configure virtual
> desktop switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).

Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.

Jim

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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:58:38 -0600, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> 	Did you try a pre 4.2 version?
> 
> 	4.2 was supposed to be the first stable one (by their own 
standards).

That's a good point, 11.2 ships with version 4.3 on it, so the suggestion 
I made as to how to enable auto-hide may not have been in an earlier 
release.

Jim

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On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:40:01 +0100, clipka wrote:

> Jim Henderson schrieb:
> 
>> But it failed to detect my wireless card.  I had to actually plug into
>> the wired network.  Then it downloaded updates automatically and
>> installed a driver for the wireless card.  OK, it did eventually work;
>> but with oS 11.2, it just worked - didn't have to download anything.
> 
> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or did
> you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?

I "downloaded" it and burned it myself, but it is the official release 
version.  (My download was a copy across the network from one of the 
download servers - handy to work for the company that produces it ;-) )

My point is that the LiveCD and DVD images "just worked".

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> > For another, it's not possible to configure virtual
> > desktop switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).

> Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.

  It's addictive once you get used to it. Guess why I didn't like KDE4.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:58:51 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> > For another, it's not possible to configure virtual desktop switching
>> > to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).
> 
>> Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.
> 
>   It's addictive once you get used to it. Guess why I didn't like KDE4.

Because it's unfamiliar?  I have to say that the couple of days I've 
spent playing with it, I've found it looks good, but some of the 
functionality seems to work inconsistently - though part of that could be 
unfamiliarity on my part because I'm a GNOME user myself.

Jim

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Jim Henderson schrieb:

> Yeah, I know - and yet there are still claims that Windows "Just works" 
> and Linux doesn't.

I can give (and actually did give, as you may recall :-)) an example of 
where Linux does /not/ "just work":

When I got my AMD Phenom machine, I installed Debian "Etch" 4.0r5 on it 
out-of-the-box. Everything /seemed/ to be fine, until I discovered that 
something was wrong with the system time: The clock ran double speed!

Now you would think that this is a pretty basic and non-complex 
functionality. Still Linux managed to get it wrong.

And it's not like fixing such things would be easy with Linux - at least 
that's how it appears to me: By now it "just works" in many cases, but 
when it doesn't and you don't happen to have administrative skills for 
Linux, you're perfectly screwed. With Windows, OTOH, at least for such 
basic stuff you're pretty likely to find something helpful on the 
mainboard manufacturer's website.

I think the observation of most Linux users that Linux "just works" is 
clouded by them typically having at least some basic experience in 
administering Unix machines.


To add another thought, the idea that /any/ existing operating system 
"just works" is pretty much a myth at present. I have /never ever/ seen 
anyone just learning how to use a computer who didn't at one time or the 
other have to get more experienced people fix things that got broken 
/somehow/ (or never worked in the first place).

Well, maybe Mac comes close, at least that's the impression I got from 
my first and only contact with a Mac and a user thereof.

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Jim Henderson schrieb:

>> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or did
>> you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?
> 
> I "downloaded" it and burned it myself, but it is the official release 
> version.  (My download was a copy across the network from one of the 
> download servers - handy to work for the company that produces it ;-) )
> 
> My point is that the LiveCD and DVD images "just worked".

I gather that it is a brand new release, too. Will it "just work" with 
hardware to come in a few months' time as well? Or could that possibly 
necessitate downloading a driver update for one or two components, too?

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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:19:07 +0100, clipka wrote:

> I can give (and actually did give, as you may recall ) an example of
> where Linux does /not/ "just work":

Oh, sure, I never said that one couldn't come up with a configuration 
that didn't "just work" - and I would never make that claim.  But there 
*are* people who make that claim about Windows, and that's a completely 
false claim.

It isn't about having administration experience, either - I was talking 
purely about the installation, which doesn't require any admin experience 
for either OS platform.  I was merely talking about hardware a detection 
comparison on identical hardware and the challenges I had in getting Win7 
to work on hardware that openSUSE 11.2 installed, configured, and found 
all hardware properly for.

I agree, though, that ultimately the idea that any OS "just works" out of 
the box is a myth as long as the software vendor has no control over all 
the hardware (which MacOS may have as an advantage - not all hardware, 
but certainly the hardware categories that Windows and Linux have issues 
with.

Jim

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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:27:18 +0100, clipka wrote:

> Jim Henderson schrieb:
> 
>>> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or
>>> did you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?
>> 
>> I "downloaded" it and burned it myself, but it is the official release
>> version.  (My download was a copy across the network from one of the
>> download servers - handy to work for the company that produces it ;-) )
>> 
>> My point is that the LiveCD and DVD images "just worked".
> 
> I gather that it is a brand new release, too. 

Yes, it was released on Thursday.

> Will it "just work" with
> hardware to come in a few months' time as well? Or could that possibly
> necessitate downloading a driver update for one or two components, too?

Shall I answer this question with a "well, duh", or an "it depends on 
what new hardware is released and what compatibility there is with 
existing drivers"?  (The latter, of course, is a more wordy way of saying 
the first answer).

Jim

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On 11/15/09 16:19, clipka wrote:
> I think the observation of most Linux users that Linux "just works" is
> clouded by them typically having at least some basic experience in
> administering Unix machines.

	Same goes for Windows, which I guess you alluded to in the next 
paragraph. How far will a Windows user get if he does not know about the 
Control Panel?

-- 
Why is the person who invests all your money called a broker?

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