Shay escreveu:
> Saul Luizaga wrote:
>> That WIP looks good man, keep it up.
> 
> Thanks. One egg white at a time.

I see beer is not an option... :P

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

"Shay" <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote in message news:4ae0de5d@news.povray.org...
>
> I've been trying to get in shape for the past few months for this
> advertisement, but have had a few setbacks[1]. So not quite there yet,
> but I do like to think I've reached above average for a 25yo[2]. Maybe

I'm 41 as of yesterday.  I got myself into better shape about 5 years ago, 
but slowly, slowly, I've put the weight back on.  Oddly, this last summer, I 
was in the best bicycling shape that I've been in since... well, maybe the 
best in my life.  60, 70, 80 mile rides were a piece of cake.  But I was 
still almost 20 lbs heavier than 5 years ago.  No, it's not all muscle. 
Endurance sports/activities have always been where my interest lies.

I've realized that creating goals is basically what keeps me from becoming a 
couch potato.  But you can't simply create a goal.  It has to be something 
you have an interest in, or it becomes somewhat of an empty promise to 
yourself.  Saying, "I want to lose 10 lbs by September 1st" is different 
from saying, "I need to get in shape to ride my bike in the DALMAC* on Labor 
Day".  Finding goals like that is where I have most of my trouble.

Nevertheless, this motivates me to try harder in my own life.

*a 4 day ride from Lansing to the Mackinac Bridge.  325 miles.

Post a reply to this message

Shay <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote:

> ...  my job's massive calorie requirements ...
>

That's a phrase you don't see every day.

Post a reply to this message

On 23-10-2009 0:35, Shay wrote:
> Perhaps this is more how you had imagined I (a 
> plebeian) would look, Andrel.

I don't remember me calling you a plebeian. In as far as it would be 
implying that I am a patrician, that would be slightly out of character 
too.

I think I would originally have expected more tattoos and a few years 
more of life experience showing on the outside. It is hard to say, 
because my impression of your physical appearance changed as soon as I 
saw a picture and this is not the sort of thing my memory stores. Going 
back to the original e-mails is also a bit of a problem in this 
newsgroup (luckily).

Post a reply to this message

Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> 
> I'm 41 as of yesterday.

Happy birthday.

> 
> I've realized that creating goals is basically what keeps me
> from becoming a couch potato.  But you can't simply create a
 > goal.  It has to be something you have an interest in, or it
> becomes somewhat of an empty promise to yourself.  Saying,
> "I want to lose 10 lbs by September 1st" is different from
> saying, "I need to get in shape to ride my bike in the DALMAC*
> on Labor Day".  Finding goals like that is where I have most
> of my trouble.

I'm just not results oriented. I may set out to lose ten pounds or bike 
in the DALMAC, but I'll do so because I want the challenge, not because 
I care about the ten pounds.

Seems like a common trait around here. How many of us have spent weeks 
working on a POV-Ray picture only to all but forget about it the moment 
it's complete?

So, that's one part of it; I want to experiment with /wanting/ a result. 
That's a bit tough for me as I am content by nature, so the best goal I 
can muster for working out is a joke picture. But working towards a 
punchline still provides a different mindset than working out for its 
own sake.

Another thing I want to try relates to a quote I cannot remember clearly 
enough to find online. Something along the lines of "Keep doing what 
you're good at until you become great at it." Sounds obvious, but it's 
sure boring. Boring for the same reason that chess became boring after 
the first 100 games: 95% of any match became automatic and the winning 
or losing lay in only 5%. It sucks to be so familiar with the 
limitations, but discovering those limitations over and over is 
"unproductive."

I don't really mind being unproductive, but I'm curious how it feels to 
do things the other way. Maybe I won't like it and I'll go right back to 
reinventing the wheel -- it's worked for me so far.

  -Shay

Post a reply to this message

On 26-10-2009 1:42, Shay wrote:
> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>>
>> I'm 41 as of yesterday.
> 
> Happy birthday.

Thanks. Oh, it wasn't directed to me. (47 today)

>>
>> I've realized that creating goals is basically what keeps me
>> from becoming a couch potato.  But you can't simply create a
>  > goal.  It has to be something you have an interest in, or it
>> becomes somewhat of an empty promise to yourself.  Saying,
>> "I want to lose 10 lbs by September 1st" is different from
>> saying, "I need to get in shape to ride my bike in the DALMAC*
>> on Labor Day".  Finding goals like that is where I have most
>> of my trouble.
> 
> I'm just not results oriented. I may set out to lose ten pounds or bike 
> in the DALMAC, but I'll do so because I want the challenge, not because 
> I care about the ten pounds.
> 
> Seems like a common trait around here. How many of us have spent weeks 
> working on a POV-Ray picture only to all but forget about it the moment 
> it's complete?
> 
> So, that's one part of it; I want to experiment with /wanting/ a result. 
> That's a bit tough for me as I am content by nature, so the best goal I 
> can muster for working out is a joke picture. But working towards a 
> punchline still provides a different mindset than working out for its 
> own sake.
> 
> Another thing I want to try relates to a quote I cannot remember clearly 
> enough to find online. Something along the lines of "Keep doing what 
> you're good at until you become great at it." Sounds obvious, but it's 
> sure boring. Boring for the same reason that chess became boring after 
> the first 100 games: 95% of any match became automatic and the winning 
> or losing lay in only 5%. It sucks to be so familiar with the 
> limitations, but discovering those limitations over and over is 
> "unproductive."
> 
> I don't really mind being unproductive, but I'm curious how it feels to 
> do things the other way. Maybe I won't like it and I'll go right back to 
> reinventing the wheel -- it's worked for me so far.

Some of those wheels may have been more like balls. Anyway, are you sure 
other people feel the same way about you being unproductive?

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
 > On 26-10-2009 1:42, Shay wrote:
 >> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
 >>>
 >>> I'm 41 as of yesterday.
 >>
 >> Happy birthday.
 >
 > Thanks. Oh, it wasn't directed to me. (47 today)

Happy birthday to you, Andrel.

 >
 > Some of those wheels may have been more like balls. Anyway,
 > are you sure other people feel the same way about you being
 > unproductive?

A matter of perspective. I have a very good analogy in mind.

My uncle creates custom carpentry. Today he'll build a chair, tomorrow a 
door, and next week a roll-top desk. He is able to apply his aptitudes 
and experience to each of these projects and produce an acceptable 
number of quality pieces. As remuneration for this production, he 
receives a nice living along with challenge and satisfaction for himself.

However, having one day spent six hours on a single custom chair, he 
could the next day produce ten identical chairs in the same amount of 
time. This would be less challenging and produce less job satisfaction 
but would bring him other, more tangible rewards ($$$$, more time with 
his wife).

There are rewards for doing and rewards for having done. I find the 
former more appealing, but do recognize that the rewards for doing 
evaporate the moment the doing is complete and (perhaps more 
importantly) that the rewards for doing are not easily shared with 
others. I suspect I will always prefer the rewards for doing, but am 
curious to experience the rewards for having done.

  -Shay

Post a reply to this message

On 26-10-2009 16:57, Shay wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>  > On 26-10-2009 1:42, Shay wrote:
>  >> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>> I'm 41 as of yesterday.
>  >>
>  >> Happy birthday.
>  >
>  > Thanks. Oh, it wasn't directed to me. (47 today)
> 
> Happy birthday to you, Andrel.
> 

Thanks ;)

>  >
>  > Some of those wheels may have been more like balls. Anyway,
>  > are you sure other people feel the same way about you being
>  > unproductive?
> 
> A matter of perspective. I have a very good analogy in mind.
> 
> My uncle creates custom carpentry. Today he'll build a chair, tomorrow a 
> door, and next week a roll-top desk. He is able to apply his aptitudes 
> and experience to each of these projects and produce an acceptable 
> number of quality pieces. As remuneration for this production, he 
> receives a nice living along with challenge and satisfaction for himself.
> 
> However, having one day spent six hours on a single custom chair, he 
> could the next day produce ten identical chairs in the same amount of 
> time. This would be less challenging and produce less job satisfaction 
> but would bring him other, more tangible rewards ($$$$, more time with 
> his wife).
> 
> There are rewards for doing and rewards for having done. I find the 
> former more appealing, but do recognize that the rewards for doing 
> evaporate the moment the doing is complete and (perhaps more 
> importantly) that the rewards for doing are not easily shared with 
> others. I suspect I will always prefer the rewards for doing, but am 
> curious to experience the rewards for having done.

For some reason I would still call your uncle productive and therefore 
you as well.

I do sort of the same. I have made plaster casts for ceramics. For me 
the process is the important thing. After the cast is finished I make 
one or at most a few ceramic things with it. If I do more than one that 
is because I want to see the effect of a different firing technique.
After I made them I don't care if somebody else uses them too.
If I want to make money with it (I don't, still happily working in 
cardiology and in teaching), I need somebody else to help me.

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
> On 26-10-2009 16:57, Shay wrote:
> 
> For some reason I would still call your uncle productive and therefore 
> you as well.
> 
> I do sort of the same. I have made plaster casts for ceramics. For me 
> the process is the important thing. After the cast is finished I make 
> one or at most a few ceramic things with it. If I do more than one that 
> is because I want to see the effect of a different firing technique.
> After I made them I don't care if somebody else uses them too.
> If I want to make money with it (I don't, still happily working in 
> cardiology and in teaching), I need somebody else to help me.

Money? Turning a lot of time into a little bit of money isn't what I had 
in mind.

I should know more about ceramics. I've seen three generations of my 
family work with them. But, I don't, so I'll have to explain myself 
through my own areas of knowledge and allow you to draw the parallels.

Two of my long-term interests have been POV-Ray and songwriting. POV-Ray 
is a "rewards of doing" interest. I don't usually show my pictures to 
anyone (even my wife) outside of this newsgroup and recognize that the 
subtleties on which I spend so much time are there for the benefit of 
making me happy. I can do difficult things in POV-Ray, but beating WOW 
is probably pretty difficult to and no one is going to care beyond the 
person doing it. Both POV-Ray and WOW are done by people sitting by 
themselves in front of their computers for hours on end and the joy of 
"beating" either is very short-lived.

Songwriting is, however, a "rewards of having done" interest. I don't 
enjoy the act as much, but don't mind saying that I'm very good at it 
and can creative impressive work in a short amount of time. Having done 
this, I can then share the work with musicians as we develop the song to 
completion. Friends /ask/ to hear songs I have written and the 
recordings are as or more exciting to the musicians performing them as 
they are to me.

I'm just extroverted enough to enjoy that recognition, but not 
extroverted enough to be motivated by it, so my experiments with 
"rewards of having done" activities are moving at a very slow pace.

....... Just though of another analogy. People will pay more to read a 
novel than to read a blog. Even if the blog is three times as long.

  -Shay

Post a reply to this message

On 29-10-2009 17:00, Shay wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> On 26-10-2009 16:57, Shay wrote:
>>
>> For some reason I would still call your uncle productive and therefore 
>> you as well.
>>
>> I do sort of the same. I have made plaster casts for ceramics. For me 
>> the process is the important thing. After the cast is finished I make 
>> one or at most a few ceramic things with it. If I do more than one 
>> that is because I want to see the effect of a different firing technique.
>> After I made them I don't care if somebody else uses them too.
>> If I want to make money with it (I don't, still happily working in 
>> cardiology and in teaching), I need somebody else to help me.
> 
> Money? Turning a lot of time into a little bit of money isn't what I had 
> in mind.

It was just an expression that I am not cut out for production work either.

> I should know more about ceramics. I've seen three generations of my 
> family work with them. 

There are two main things in ceramics. One is thinking of an interesting 
shape and creating it (or just improvise and say afterwards that was 
what you intended, but that wouldn't be our style, isn't it?) Seeing 
your POV work suggests that you'd be amazing at that.
The other is glazing and firing. That is just experience, you might 
still be able to get a decent start from your family.
Startup costs are small if there is still a oven hanging around 

you think that the shapes are worth finishing.


> But, I don't, so I'll have to explain myself 
> through my own areas of knowledge and allow you to draw the parallels.
> 
> Two of my long-term interests have been POV-Ray and songwriting. POV-Ray 
> is a "rewards of doing" interest. I don't usually show my pictures to 
> anyone (even my wife) outside of this newsgroup and recognize that the 
> subtleties on which I spend so much time are there for the benefit of 
> making me happy. I can do difficult things in POV-Ray, but beating WOW 
> is probably pretty difficult to and no one is going to care beyond the 
> person doing it. Both POV-Ray and WOW are done by people sitting by 
> themselves in front of their computers for hours on end and the joy of 
> "beating" either is very short-lived.
> 
> Songwriting is, however, a "rewards of having done" interest. I don't 
> enjoy the act as much, but don't mind saying that I'm very good at it 
> and can creative impressive work in a short amount of time. Having done 
> this, I can then share the work with musicians as we develop the song to 
> completion. Friends /ask/ to hear songs I have written and the 
> recordings are as or more exciting to the musicians performing them as 
> they are to me.
> 
> I'm just extroverted enough to enjoy that recognition, but not 
> extroverted enough to be motivated by it, so my experiments with 
> "rewards of having done" activities are moving at a very slow pace.
> 
> ....... Just though of another analogy. People will pay more to read a 
> novel than to read a blog. Even if the blog is three times as long.

Not your point, but do you think that will change with electronic paper?

Post a reply to this message