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[url=http://www.bitc.org.uk/media_centre/press_releases/international_award.html]IBM
awarded for innovative solution to tackling world’s most critical social
and environmental problems[/url]
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OK here it is the so anticipated Anti-Paranoid package:
The following paragraph came from here:
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/bg/rfp.pdf
which is the 'Request For Proposals'.
"World Community Grid is designed as a resource for research done with a
philanthropic or humanitarian purpose and will only be available to
projects conducted for public and not-for-profit purposes. It will serve
as a useful tool for the completion of a certain stage of research,
hastening the progress of projects into further phases of development.
Results must be made available to the global research community by the
sponsoring research organization and remain in the public domain.
Because projects must serve to promote human welfare directly or
indirectly, it is anticipated that projects in the following disciplines
will be run on World Community Grid:
· New and existing infectious disease research
· Genomic and disease research
· Natural disasters and hunger
· Environmental Research"
The webpage is here:
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/research/viewSubmitAProposal.do , here
you can read:
"Research We Support
World Community Grid supports research that is:
* Focused on solving problems to benefit humanity;
* Conducted by public or nonprofit organizations;
* Contributed to the public domain; and
* Accelerated by grid computing technology."
As you can see I was wrong about selling the drug/treatment but I was
right about the free and public result database. See? it was there all
the time, you just had to look for it. The website got redesigned so
some info was moved or removed.
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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:04:27 -0400, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> See? it was there all the
> time, you just had to look for it.
That really wasn't necessary. Here's how you're coming across to me:
Saul: Hey, there's this really cool thing I know about!
World: What's the benefit?
Saul: Why don't you go and do your own research on it? Do I have to
tell you everything? Geez.
IOW, you're trying to tell people there's this thing you think is really
cool, and then punching people in the face when they ask questions about
it and telling them to search for themselves - and not even in a nice way.
And you wonder why people are reacting negatively?
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:04:27 -0400, Saul Luizaga wrote:
>
>> See? it was there all the
>> time, you just had to look for it.
>
> That really wasn't necessary. Here's how you're coming across to me:
>
>
> Saul: Hey, there's this really cool thing I know about!
> World: What's the benefit?
> Saul: Why don't you go and do your own research on it? Do I have to
> tell you everything? Geez.
>
> IOW, you're trying to tell people there's this thing you think is really
> cool, and then punching people in the face when they ask questions about
> it and telling them to search for themselves - and not even in a nice way.
>
> And you wonder why people are reacting negatively?
>
> Jim
LOL, it wasn't like that, I posted links to very informative articles
showing realistic breakthroughs. On those links was abundant information
to spider about. As a last resort you can Google WCG website to find it,
or to know what others are writing/saying about it.
If you had visited the site you'll give me some credit, at the main
page they have links and pulldown menus with informative pages and with
explanations better than I could ever give to you all. He unnecessarily
alarmed all the people who visit this newsgroup questioning things,
making a bottle neck, waiting for my not-so-well-informed-explanations
to decide if it's worth it going to actual site and inform yourselves,
doesn't this sounds a little bit illogical? It does to me.
When people post things here I go to the links and dig everything I want
to know I don't question the poster with questions I can answer myself
making a few clicks with the mouse. And most people do this, why I
deserve less?
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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:15:54 -0400, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> When people post things here I go to the links and dig everything I want
> to know I don't question the poster with questions I can answer myself
> making a few clicks with the mouse. And most people do this, why I
> deserve less?
There's a difference between someone saying "I wonder where I can find
'x'" and saying "this is really cool" and having people answer asking
questions.
But I note that each time you've brought this topic up, you've gotten
angry in your replies (maybe that's a perceptual thing and you didn't
mean it) - but since you're the one who brought the topic up and seemed
to have some knowledge about it, asking is a logical flow of conversation.
So getting pissed off that people are asking you questions when you've
clearly invested some time in it would seem unproductive. If you feel
you don't have the knowledge, just say "I don't know, the website might
answer that question better than I could" and provide a pointer instead
of saying "dammit, what am I, the friggin' oracle? Go do your own damned
research !@!@#!!%!$!@#!@#" (which is how you're coming across).
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> There's a difference between someone saying "I wonder where I can find
> 'x'" and saying "this is really cool" and having people answer asking
> questions.
I've also seen people saying this is cool and giving links.
> But I note that each time you've brought this topic up, you've gotten
> angry in your replies (maybe that's a perceptual thing and you didn't
> mean it) - but since you're the one who brought the topic up and seemed
> to have some knowledge about it, asking is a logical flow of conversation.
I wasn't angry just a little upset, maybe I was too emphatic about it
and looked like I was pissed off. I'm OK with questions about it, but is
also logical and more reasonable to clear your doubts on the website
since that is the main purpose of it, asking things not being obvious on
the site or forums well that is understandable, at least is more logical
for me to behave this way.
I apologize if anyone felt punched in the face, that was never my
intention, anyway I was showing the way to the best source of info about it.
> So getting pissed off that people are asking you questions when you've
> clearly invested some time in it would seem unproductive.
In deed.
> If you feel
> you don't have the knowledge, just say "I don't know, the website might
> answer that question better than I could" and provide a pointer instead
> of saying "dammit, what am I, the friggin' oracle?
Lol :-D
> Go do your own damned
> research !@!@#!!%!$!@#!@#" (which is how you're coming across).
Well, I never thought it was that strong, I apologize again. Although it
wasn't because I was semi-informed and I could give some detail, was
because of the pessimistic question/attitude like I didn't make sure
this was legit before posting it here, but I think , as Warp and others
posted here you need diplomacy and I was a bit emo about it, which
clouded my rationality, is just that I feel emotionally attached to the
WCG, you know what I mean?
Cheers.
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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:10:29 -0400, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Well, I never thought it was that strong, I apologize again. Although it
> wasn't because I was semi-informed and I could give some detail, was
> because of the pessimistic question/attitude like I didn't make sure
> this was legit before posting it here, but I think , as Warp and others
> posted here you need diplomacy and I was a bit emo about it, which
> clouded my rationality, is just that I feel emotionally attached to the
> WCG, you know what I mean?
Yep, and perfectly understandable. It's important, as you noted, to use
some diplomacy, and in a case like this, separate the personal feelings
from the underlying question.
But I'm glad I could make you laugh - it might be funny to send some of
those questions to the Internet Oracle and see what creative answers come
back. :-)
Jim
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Saul Luizaga schrieb:
> "World Community Grid is designed as a resource for research done with a
> philanthropic or humanitarian purpose and will only be available to
> projects conducted for public and not-for-profit purposes. It will serve
> as a useful tool for the completion of a certain stage of research,
> hastening the progress of projects into further phases of development.
> Results must be made available to the global research community by the
> sponsoring research organization and remain in the public domain.
Now *that* is what I call a clear and plain statement. Thanks, I did not
manage to spot that when I skimmed over the pages recently, and back
then didn't feel like it would be worth spending the time.
As I have recently developed a habit of keeping my computer on and
connected to the internet virtually all the time, and not running
renders on my QuadCore /all/ of the time, it might well be worth giving
the cores something to do while I'm just hacking up code, reading
newsgroups, or the like. But it's not like I've been in desperate search
for a way to keep my computer busy or contribute more to humanity: It
was just a spontaneous research inspired by your earlier posting,
somewhere between hacking in a shell script and waiting for it to spew
out results.
With that information you now provided, obviously my initial assessment
is proven wrong, so I'll definitely have a more in-depth look at it.
You know, I'm rather sceptic when people are all the rage about
something they're convinced of. I've had my fair share of that myself to
know how one can be grossly mistaken with it.
If you insist on calling that paranoia, then fine, have your way. But
note that answering questions better promotes the project than calling
someone paranoid just because they doubtfully raise those questions.
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Saul Luizaga schrieb:
> When people post things here I go to the links and dig everything I want
> to know I don't question the poster with questions I can answer myself
> making a few clicks with the mouse. And most people do this, why I
> deserve less?
Maybe because the thing is less important to others than to you?
Going back to my original posting, I realize that it was not at all
clear (rather to the contrary as I must confess), but the questions I
asked in that post were meant to be purely rhethorical. My interest in
the project wasn't anywhere close to actually expect an answer.
Had you not reacted, I wouldn't have bothered any further about the project.
Maybe this explains a bit. (Realizing this, it also helps understanding
your reaction.)
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On 11/11/09 17:10, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I apologize if anyone felt punched in the face, that was never my
> intention, anyway I was showing the way to the best source of info about
> it.
Well, see, here's the point. It's not so much that people will get
upset and be mad about it. They'll just see your response and lose all
interest.
One thing I learned about the Internet and forums/newsgroups: People
love to argue - not to be nasty. It's just an intellectual exercise. And
your earlier replies were really good fodder for having some
intellectual discussion, and the actual interest in what you posted is
quickly gone.
--
Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.
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On 11/11/09 17:28, clipka wrote:
> You know, I'm rather sceptic when people are all the rage about
> something they're convinced of. I've had my fair share of that myself to
> know how one can be grossly mistaken with it.
This is important. Sadly, in this world, presentation is important.
Although I also detest people who try to make something so "presentable"
that it's actually dishonest.
I'm pretty poor at convincing others to try something that I really
enjoy. I've learned to simply write a post with a short description and
a link (if it's a Web site), and leave out most appeals to emotion (e.g.
"save lives/humanity", etc). Well, at least most _strong_ appeals.<G>
--
Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.
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clipka wrote:
> As I have recently developed a habit of keeping my computer on and
> connected to the internet virtually all the time, and not running
> renders on my QuadCore /all/ of the time, it might well be worth giving
> the cores something to do while I'm just hacking up code, reading
> newsgroups, or the like. But it's not like I've been in desperate search
> for a way to keep my computer busy or contribute more to humanity: It
> was just a spontaneous research inspired by your earlier posting,
> somewhere between hacking in a shell script and waiting for it to spew
> out results.
If you decide to participate and since you have 4 cores, you don't need
even pause it, the default profile takes only 60% CPU time (you can
change that editing the profile or creating another) from each core and
each of the four WUs(Work Units) run on third plane (lowest CPU
priority), so anything you do, even rendering, is ran first and foremost.
> With that information you now provided, obviously my initial assessment
> is proven wrong, so I'll definitely have a more in-depth look at it.
Glad to read that and you'll not regret the site is as legit as it can
get, has plenty of info a nice Forum community, statistics, the WCG
client gives total control and offer lots of details or just a simple view.
> You know, I'm rather skeptic when people are all the rage about
> something they're convinced of. I've had my fair share of that myself to
> know how one can be grossly mistaken with it.
Yeah, I know what you mean, I have been there many times, that's why now
I make sure what I get into isn't a hoax. The Internet is a good place
to be scammed.
> If you insist on calling that paranoia, then fine, have your way. But
> note that answering questions better promotes the project than calling
> someone paranoid just because they doubtfully raise those questions.
Your questions and doubts are fine, I had them myself, what made them
look paranoid was asking them here without checking the website first,
like you were scared of even go there, hence my confusion, I apologize
for it.
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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> Well, see, here's the point. It's not so much that people will get
> upset and be mad about it. They'll just see your response and lose all
> interest.
>
> One thing I learned about the Internet and forums/newsgroups: People
> love to argue - not to be nasty.
I see... good to know, thanks.
> It's just an intellectual exercise. And
> your earlier replies were really good fodder for having some
> intellectual discussion, and the actual interest in what you posted is
> quickly gone.
Yeah, so sorry I spoiled the fun.
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clipka wrote:
> Maybe because the thing is less important to others than to you?
>
> Going back to my original posting, I realize that it was not at all
> clear (rather to the contrary as I must confess), but the questions I
> asked in that post were meant to be purely rhetorical. My interest in
> the project wasn't anywhere close to actually expect an answer.
>
> Had you not reacted, I wouldn't have bothered any further about the
> project.
>
> Maybe this explains a bit. (Realizing this, it also helps understanding
> your reaction.)
In deed, I guess something good came out of this messy thread if I
interested you in The WCG :-) and maybe others.
Forgot to say is really gratifying help on the research, you get the
feeling once you send off you first WU :-)
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Saul Luizaga schrieb:
> In deed, I guess something good came out of this messy thread if I
> interested you in The WCG :-) and maybe others.
You may like to hear that I have in fact the WCG client running right
now :-)
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clipka wrote:
> You may like to hear that I have in fact the WCG client running right
> now :-)
Welcome then :-) In deed I'm glad you're participating, the more we're
the faster research will go :-)
Please spread the word; the WCG Forum have a thread with suggestion on
how to help the WCG besides running the client, the most important one
is this: spread the word to everyone you know or place you visit on The Net.
You don't need to have your PC 24/7 on or increase the utilization
percentage, normal use is enough, but is up to you.
To help you measure the reach of your help let me tell you a short
story: A few weeks ago I read in a thread of HCC (Help Conquer Cancer)
sub-forum that a guy was telling the story of how he met his WCG
e-friend but he had an aggressive type of Cancer and recently became
even more aggressive since he was entering the "Event Horizon", he had
no more than a few weeks left, so this guy, finally got to met him
personally, after speaking on the phone and webcam, they had a wonderful
afternoon and at the end of the meeting his friend told him the bad
news, he was shocked by the news and he spend almost the entire next day
thinking on the guy and of course moved to tears almost immediately
after he heard the news but he waited to be in his home to cry. So he
was asking to dedicate a little more CPU time to this project. The sick
friend had already 20 high-end PCs on his home each running a WCG Client.
You're helping people like this.
I accept the fact of death, but IMO nobody deserves to go in that
horrible way or because of AIDS, Alzheimer, Parkinson, etc. Or suffer
his/her entire life from paralysis, muscular dystrophy or other genetic
or protein-related diseases. Is just too horrible to see people
suffering that way, imagine the kind of strength you need to live it
through your entire life, knowing nothing or nobody can help you... I
want to give at least realistic hope to those people, even if I never
met them.
Also I really would like to help someday in the designing of prosthesis
at very low prices, replacing damaged organs with artificial ones, so
they can have normal and fruitful lives. Maybe finding new protein
folding will indirectly help out, knowing what proteins can be combined
with what artificial materials/proteins and implement prosthesis
devices. I'd like this to happen before my lifetime.
Cheers.
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Saul Luizaga schrieb:
> Welcome then :-) In deed I'm glad you're participating, the more we're
> the faster research will go :-)
>
> Please spread the word; the WCG Forum have a thread with suggestion on
> how to help the WCG besides running the client, the most important one
> is this: spread the word to everyone you know or place you visit on The
> Net.
I guess I'll have to disappoint you in this respect: You're obviously
overestimating my enthusiasm for the project, which apparently is no
match to yours. Helping others is, as I must admit, not my primary
motivation in life. I think I'm quite quick to lend a hand if someone
asks for it and I'm able to, but I don't really have that boy-scout
mindset of constantly seeking for good deeds to do.
The WCG will now have my continuous support, but actually for me it was
just a one-time thing: All I did was install the software, and now it's
running happily in the background without me having to invest any
further energy.
Maybe that's the wrong way to live, but I can't help it: That's just the
way I am. So I prefer to consider it ok in its own accord.
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clipka wrote:
> I guess I'll have to disappoint you in this respect: You're obviously
> overestimating my enthusiasm for the project, which apparently is no
> match to yours. Helping others is, as I must admit, not my primary
> motivation in life. I think I'm quite quick to lend a hand if someone
> asks for it and I'm able to, but I don't really have that boy-scout
> mindset of constantly seeking for good deeds to do.
I didn't meant it as a dedicated activity but as casual one, if you
please; nothing elaborated just comment to friends family and maybe a
forum or another newsgroup if you see it fit. If you don't is OK too,
spreading the word is always second bet to running the client, for which
I'm grateful.
> The WCG will now have my continuous support, but actually for me it was
> just a one-time thing: All I did was install the software, and now it's
> running happily in the background without me having to invest any
> further energy.
Is OK, many do it that way, few reinstall the WCG Client when they
re-install Windows/Linux/MacOS, other quit after a few months or years,
but as I wrote, any help is good help on the WCG. Anyway you're part of
a family with 267,884 members, you were one of the 186 members that
joined yesterday, you PC (Host) is part of the 831,492 Host population
and 1 of the 864 that joined yesterday, you PC is helping make 340.107
TeraFLOPS for the WCG.
Again, thank you.
> Maybe that's the wrong way to live, but I can't help it: That's just the
> way I am. So I prefer to consider it ok in its own accord.
This is the World tendency and what the World tends to turn individuals
into, is necessary to free your mind & heart to start thinking out of
the box, but sometimes is better to equate harmony with peace; is good
either way, depends on the person.
I don't pretend to offend you with this, is just a reflexion on live
facts I've observed, being this my personal POV.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> clipka wrote:
> > As I have recently developed a habit of keeping my computer on and
>> connected to the internet virtually all the time, and not running
>> renders on my QuadCore /all/ of the time, it might well be worth giving
>> the cores something to do while I'm just hacking up code, reading
>> newsgroups, or the like. But it's not like I've been in desperate search
>> for a way to keep my computer busy or contribute more to humanity: It
>> was just a spontaneous research inspired by your earlier posting,
>> somewhere between hacking in a shell script and waiting for it to spew
>> out results.
>
> If you decide to participate and since you have 4 cores, you don't need
> even pause it, the default profile takes only 60% CPU time (you can
> change that editing the profile or creating another) from each core and
> each of the four WUs(Work Units) run on third plane (lowest CPU
> priority), so anything you do, even rendering, is ran first and foremost.
I have it set to use 100%. It runs at the lowest process priority anyway
(highest nice level on Unix). I don't notice any slowdown while it's
running.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I have it set to use 100%. It runs at the lowest process priority anyway
> (highest nice level on Unix). I don't notice any slowdown while it's
> running.
First, thank you for joining the WCG and second, for setting it at 100% :-).
You may notice a little lag when you load a few "heavy" apps. and
Alt-Tab them but if you have 2 or more cores (not Hyperthreaded) this
lag may not exist.
Remember you all: this is us helping ourselves in the most intelligent &
effective way possible; we'll tank ourselves later on.
Cheers.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> I have it set to use 100%. It runs at the lowest process priority anyway
>> (highest nice level on Unix). I don't notice any slowdown while it's
>> running.
>
> First, thank you for joining the WCG and second, for setting it at 100%
> :-).
I have been on BOINC projects for two or three years already. Since before
WCG supported BOINC for sure.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I have been on BOINC projects for two or three years already. Since before
> WCG supported BOINC for sure.
Oh I see, glad you decide to help on the WCG.
I'm curious, what other projects are you running?
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> I have been on BOINC projects for two or three years already. Since
>> before WCG supported BOINC for sure.
>
> Oh I see, glad you decide to help on the WCG.
>
> I'm curious, what other projects are you running?
I have accounts on most projects :P
*Currently* I run them based on what I need to test at the moment (I'm a
developer for a BOINC fork). But I did quite a lot of crunching for
WCG Dengue recently, since my country was quite affected by it.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I have accounts on most projects :P
>
> *Currently* I run them based on what I need to test at the moment (I'm a
> developer for a BOINC fork). But I did quite a lot of crunching for
> WCG Dengue recently, since my country was quite affected by it.
>
Oh I see, so you're doing more than me and you already knew about WCG
then, glad to know one of the BOINC developers. My Country was also
affected by Dengue and Influenza and the WCG was the for us too, is
reassuring :-)
And now I have the opportunity to ask a BOINC developer to make 64-bit
versions of the projects, the one you're working on please, with 128-bit
floating point instructions for even faster processing. I have
confirmation that the 32-bit version of the WCG run up to 30% faster
just because they're running on WinXP x64. :-)
Cheers.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> I have accounts on most projects :P
>>
>> *Currently* I run them based on what I need to test at the moment (I'm a
>> developer for a BOINC fork). But I did quite a lot of crunching for
>> WCG Dengue recently, since my country was quite affected by it.
>>
> Oh I see, so you're doing more than me and you already knew about WCG
> then, glad to know one of the BOINC developers. My Country was also
> affected by Dengue and Influenza and the WCG was the for us too, is
> reassuring :-)
I'm not one of BOINC developers. I contribute to BOINC "externally". And
last year me and two other people got fed up with the BOINC developers and
made our own derivated version ;)
> And now I have the opportunity to ask a BOINC developer to make 64-bit
> versions of the projects, the one you're working on please, with 128-bit
> floating point instructions for even faster processing. I have
> confirmation that the 32-bit version of the WCG run up to 30% faster
> just because they're running on WinXP x64. :-)
Projects are independent, and BOINC developers have no control over them.
You should ask the *project* developers to support 64-bit.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I'm not one of BOINC developers. I contribute to BOINC "externally". And
> last year me and two other people got fed up with the BOINC developers and
> made our own derivated version ;)
Must have been interesting :-)
> Projects are independent, and BOINC developers have no control over them.
> You should ask the *project* developers to support 64-bit.
>
Oh I see, I'll try that, thanks Nicolas.
Cheers.
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