Does anyone else have trouble steering the cars in this game? So far, it's 
not too difficult, except that I can't steer for a damn, so I can't finish 
the car chase stuff. It feels like the analog joystick is playing digital, 
and every tiny touch is an attempted U-turn.

Do I have something configured wrong? Or is it just me?

I don't have trouble with the analog aiming on other games.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Does anyone else have trouble steering the cars in this game? So far, it's 
> not too difficult, except that I can't steer for a damn, so I can't finish 
> the car chase stuff. It feels like the analog joystick is playing digital, 
> and every tiny touch is an attempted U-turn.

  Kind of reminds me of Driv3r. I cannot finish even the *first* introductory
level because it's harder than the final boss in the hardest game you can
imagine, at the hardest difficulty setting.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Does anyone else have trouble steering the cars in this game? So far, it's 
>> not too difficult, except that I can't steer for a damn, so I can't finish 
>> the car chase stuff. It feels like the analog joystick is playing digital, 
>> and every tiny touch is an attempted U-turn.
> 
>   Kind of reminds me of Driv3r. I cannot finish even the *first* introductory
> level because it's harder than the final boss in the hardest game you can
> imagine, at the hardest difficulty setting.

Hey, I've got that one. Have you gone hill-hopping in Nice? There's a 
way into the background hills, where you can hit some "null 
zones"--places where the graphics are not refreshed. The pixels just 
stack up. Then there's bomb-hopping, where you launch a grenade next to 
your vehicle and step into it real quick, to get up on roofs. With 
invincibility on of course ;)

Parallel lines in a good one too, but the traffic is even thicker than 
Driv3r. Some very frustrating missions in that one :S

Sam

Post a reply to this message

>> Does anyone else have trouble steering the cars in this game? So far, 
>> it's
>> not too difficult, except that I can't steer for a damn, so I can't 
>> finish
>> the car chase stuff. It feels like the analog joystick is playing 
>> digital,
>> and every tiny touch is an attempted U-turn.

I hate using analog sticks on consoles for car games, it just seems stupid 
to map 1000 degrees of steering wheel turn onto 90 degrees of a tiny stick. 
In most cases I even prefer using digital buttons, as at least behind them 
is some algorithm to progressively steer based on the digital input.

>  Kind of reminds me of Driv3r. I cannot finish even the *first* 
> introductory
> level because it's harder than the final boss in the hardest game you can
> imagine, at the hardest difficulty setting.

IME in such games the introductory level is to make sure you avoid exactly 
what Darren mentioned.  It forces you to have at least have basic car 
control skills before attempting the main part of the game.

I don't know about Driv3r, but on the original Driver you started in a 
garage basement and had to do so many stunts within a time limit before you 
could progress.  It really is worth spending the time learning how to do 
those moves because it will make the rest of the game far more enjoyable.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> I don't know about Driv3r, but on the original Driver you started in a
> garage basement and had to do so many stunts within a time limit before you
> could progress.  It really is worth spending the time learning how to do
> those moves because it will make the rest of the game far more enjoyable.

I remember that. I agree you need the skills to get the most out of the game,
but there were too few rewards to make me stick at Driver, and I got bored of it
eventually. In GTA there are the driving/flying schools etc (at least in
previous ones - not sure about 4) which do the same job, but with plenty of
variation. Not to mention having other things to do around the map, so you can
drive there and get implicit practice... and if you get too infuriated you can
just go drive up some streets the wrong way to cool off!

(why did they call the most recent one 4, by the way? It's at least the 6th game
to bear the name)

Post a reply to this message

> I remember that. I agree you need the skills to get the most out of the 
> game,
> but there were too few rewards to make me stick at Driver, and I got bored 
> of it
> eventually.

Yes me too, I just used to drive around the maps powersliding (it was so 
easy to control the slides).  I also started playing about with the car and 
level scripts (they were just plain text) to get faster cars and no-damage.

> In GTA there are the driving/flying schools etc (at least in
> previous ones - not sure about 4) which do the same job, but with plenty 
> of
> variation. Not to mention having other things to do around the map, so you 
> can
> drive there and get implicit practice... and if you get too infuriated you 
> can
> just go drive up some streets the wrong way to cool off!

Or get out of your car and fire rockets at police cars :-)

> (why did they call the most recent one 4, by the way? It's at least the 
> 6th game
> to bear the name)

Maybe all the "3" ones used the same (or a similar) game engine?  IDK. I 
have GTA 4 sat at home waiting to be played...

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > I remember that. I agree you need the skills to get the most out of the
> > game,
> > but there were too few rewards to make me stick at Driver, and I got bored
> > of it
> > eventually.
>
> Yes me too, I just used to drive around the maps powersliding (it was so
> easy to control the slides).  I also started playing about with the car and
> level scripts (they were just plain text) to get faster cars and no-damage.

Um, I meant, I never got out of the garage! I was initially reluctant to try GTA
after that, I thought it meant I was crap at all driving games :)

> > drive there and get implicit practice... and if you get too infuriated you
> > can
> > just go drive up some streets the wrong way to cool off!
>
> Or get out of your car and fire rockets at police cars :-)

My favourite in GTA:SA was to park across the freeway and watch the ensuing
pile-ups from a safe distance.

> Maybe all the "3" ones used the same (or a similar) game engine?  IDK. I
> have GTA 4 sat at home waiting to be played...

Yeah I expect you're right. Ditto for me with GTA 4...

Post a reply to this message

> Um, I meant, I never got out of the garage! I was initially reluctant to 
> try GTA
> after that, I thought it meant I was crap at all driving games :)

Oh ok - don't worry you didn't miss much compared to GTA.  IIRC Driver came 
out before GTA3, so it seemed to be the only 3D driving game where you could 
really just drive around wherever you wanted on a huge map.

> My favourite in GTA:SA was to park across the freeway and watch the 
> ensuing
> pile-ups from a safe distance.

Or to hide at the side of the road and try and shoot out the tyres of 
passing cars (or the drivers' heads)...

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > My favourite in GTA:SA was to park across the freeway and watch the
> > ensuing
> > pile-ups from a safe distance.
>
> Or to hide at the side of the road and try and shoot out the tyres of
> passing cars (or the drivers' heads)...

Or, better yet, the fuel cap! Driving the wrong way in a super taxi was good -
fire the nitro, get up to speed, then do a hydraulic-shock hop just before you
hit something. You could get multiple backflips if you hit things just right!

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> I don't know about Driv3r, but on the original Driver you started in a 
> garage basement and had to do so many stunts within a time limit before you 
> could progress.  It really is worth spending the time learning how to do 
> those moves because it will make the rest of the game far more enjoyable.

  Driv3r has nothing to do with the first game. In the first game the
controls are good and polished, the car responsive and the level of
difficulty acceptable. I own the first Driver game and I have played it
through.

  Driv3r is completely unplayable. I cannot pass even the first level.

http://warp.povusers.org/GameReviews/driv3r.html

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Does anyone else have trouble steering the cars in this game? So far, 
> it's not too difficult, except that I can't steer for a damn, so I can't 
> finish the car chase stuff. It feels like the analog joystick is playing 
> digital, and every tiny touch is an attempted U-turn.
> 
> Do I have something configured wrong? Or is it just me?
> 
> I don't have trouble with the analog aiming on other games.
> 

If you're used to other racing games, GTA4 won't feel the same at all. 
This is by no means a bad thing; it's a completely different game, and 
the driving serves a different purpose.

I'd say spend some time stealing cars and running from the police.  If 
you can outrun the police on 3 stars, then you won't have any problems 
beating the game.

(Or, for added fun, try to run the police barricades before the other 
islands open up - 5 instant stars :) ).

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

Chambers wrote:
> I'd say spend some time stealing cars and running from the police.  If 
> you can outrun the police on 3 stars, then you won't have any problems 
> beating the game.

OK, so it is just a matter of practice then.

> (Or, for added fun, try to run the police barricades before the other 
> islands open up - 5 instant stars :) ).

I did that. I didn't realize the bridge was closed until I slammed into the 
barrier at speed.  I've also run into things hard enough to go thru the 
windshield, which was pretty amusing.

But it seems the only way I can catch up to people fleeing is to drive after 
them as far as I can, then start over and try to follow the same path, ad 
nauseum. The fact that the game won't save at arbitrary points is rather 
annoying too.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> But it seems the only way I can catch up to people fleeing is to drive 
> after them as far as I can, then start over and try to follow the same 
> path, ad nauseum. The fact that the game won't save at arbitrary points 
> is rather annoying too.

Once you get to be friends with Bruce, you can participate in street 
races whenever you want - these are good practice.

Like most racing games, it all comes down to the corners.  If you learn 
to corner well, you can catch anybody - well, anybody in a race.  There 
are actually some scripted chases where it's physically impossible to 
catch the target, as they'll just accelerate at an insane pace to keep 
ahead of you.  For those chases, you just need to keep close to them 
until you reach your destination.  Unfortunately, there's no indication 
of which type of chase you're in other than watching the behavior of the 
car you're chasing.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

Chambers wrote:
> Once you get to be friends with Bruce, you can participate in street 
> races whenever you want - these are good practice.

I can practice just by jacking a car and driving around, really. :-)

> Like most racing games, it all comes down to the corners.

The steering seems so sensitive that it's difficult to even go straight when 
the road curves slightly. It's a little easier at speed, it seems, and it's 
helpful that neither light poles nor pedestrians present a serious difficulty.

> catch the target, as they'll just accelerate at an insane pace to keep 
> ahead of you.  

I hate that kind of stuff. :-) But if the idea is to follow them to where 
they're going, I can see the need.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

I played the game through on xbox and I don't remember having much trouble 
with the driving controls. (My biggest driving problems were with taking 
sharp turns during high speed chases.) What platform are you used to, PC? 
You might just need to be slower with the joystick.

Controls aside, the game is very frustrating. The lack of save points is 
very painful, especially during some of the later missions. In fact, I don't 
think I would play another GTA game unless that specific point were 
addressed.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

Post a reply to this message

> (why did they call the most recent one 4, by the way? It's at least the 
> 6th game
> to bear the name)

It makes sense to split the games into "main" games and "spinoffs." People 
who really like the series will play every game, whereas people who don't 
care as much can still play the main (numbered) ones and not feel like 
they're missing out.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

Post a reply to this message

>  Driv3r has nothing to do with the first game. In the first game the
> controls are good and polished, the car responsive and the level of
> difficulty acceptable. I own the first Driver game and I have played it
> through.
>
>  Driv3r is completely unplayable. I cannot pass even the first level.

Yeh that sucks, I mean aren't they meant to give copies of the game to 
non-developers to test out before releasing it?

I wonder if it was released for consoles first, which is why the controls 
are aimed at tiny analogue sticks?

Post a reply to this message

> There are actually some scripted chases where it's physically impossible 
> to catch the target, as they'll just accelerate at an insane pace to keep 
> ahead of you.

Yeh stuff like that is annoying, like when you crash for 2 minutes or go the 
wrong way, then within a few seconds you've caught them back up again.  I 
read an interesting article about coding game AI for "fun", it's pretty 
interesting and a lot more complex than most people imagine:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22141

I remember one mission (the last one on SA maybe) where you had to chase a 
car down and kill the driver.  I boxed in his car between two buildings so 
there was no way he could move.  My plan was to get out and shoot him, but 
when I got out the camera swung round, and when I looked back his car had 
magically moved back onto the road and he was driving off - even though this 
was completely impossible IRL.

I can understand the need for traffic and pedestrians to do unrealistic 
stuff to keep the CPU requirements down, but the main characters should be 
forced to behave in a physically correct way.

Post a reply to this message

"Slime" <fak### [at] emailaddress> wrote:
> > (why did they call the most recent one 4, by the way? It's at least the
> > 6th game
> > to bear the name)
>
> It makes sense to split the games into "main" games and "spinoffs." People
> who really like the series will play every game, whereas people who don't
> care as much can still play the main (numbered) ones and not feel like
> they're missing out.

....except that Vice City and San Andreas are both much, much better than GTA3
(the first 3D version), and are clearly not intended to be mere spinoffs. (So
far, I'm also finding San Andreas at least to be better than GTA4.) If I'd
played only GTA3 and GTA4, then read about what the story and game features are
like in VC and SA, I'd definitely feel that I completely missed out!

Thinking about it, GTA4 is the 4th 3D version. Perhaps the makers are just
excluding the older 2D versions before the franchise got popular...?

Post a reply to this message

Slime wrote:
> Controls aside, the game is very frustrating. The lack of save points is 
> very painful, especially during some of the later missions. In fact, I don't 
> think I would play another GTA game unless that specific point were 
> addressed.

I don't think there was a single mission I had to attempt more than 10 
times*, and that was only the very last mission where you're flying a 
helicopter.

Unlike the car and boat chases, there are only about 2 helicopter chases 
in the whole game, so you don't get a lot of practice in them.

*And I don't like it when you die repeatedly on a level, and the game 
just says "OK, you can go on anyway," or it makes the level easier, or 
something.  Maybe I'm just oldschool, but I like the satisfaction of 
beating it myself.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

Slime wrote:
> What platform are you used to, PC? 

Generally, altho I've played Bioshock thru 4 or 5 times, so I know it's not 
just my ham-fistedness.

> You might just need to be slower with the joystick.

I can see in the window. I move the joystick a tiny bit, and I can see him 
turn the wheel all the way to the side. Now I have to steer by tap-tapping 
the stick a short time.

> Controls aside, the game is very frustrating. The lack of save points is 
> very painful, especially during some of the later missions.

That'll probably be a deal-breaker for me if it goes on, as I usually have a 
scheduled amount of time to play a game, rather than sitting down for as 
long as I like. :-)

  In fact, I don't
> think I would play another GTA game unless that specific point were 
> addressed.
> 
>  - Slime
>  [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ] 
> 
> 


-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Chambers wrote:
> I don't think there was a single mission I had to attempt more than 10 
> times*, 

I think 10 attempts is way the heck too often, *especially* for a sandbox game.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Chambers wrote:
>> I don't think there was a single mission I had to attempt more than 10 
>> times*, 
> 
> I think 10 attempts is way the heck too often, *especially* for a 
> sandbox game.
> 

It's not that bad for most of the missions.  The main thing is that 
there are so many things to do, most people won't be great at *all* of 
them.  Some missions I was really good at and breezed through, others I 
had to attempt multiple times.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

>  Driv3r is completely unplayable. I cannot pass even the first level.

So I dug out this game over the weekend and had a drive about.

What do you mean by the first level?  Maybe my version is different.  On my 
version the first level you had to drive to the police station and do a 
basic firing test by shooting at dummy boards.  It was incredibly easy even 
though I hadn't got used to the mouse aim controls yet.  After that the next 
level was to drive to some building, shoot 3 or 4 people (again, they were 
really not good at shooting and I killed them all without losing much 
health).  Then next some guy drove off in a car and you had to follow him. 
My car seemed to be slightly faster than his (I would be gradually catching 
him up when going straight), but I had to be careful when turning not to hit 
in to stuff to let him get away.  I found the best tactic was to actually 
stay a certain distance behind him, then you are more prepared to take the 
turn without crashing.

I used the keyboard for control, and really thought it was quite similar to 
the original Driver controls (although I haven't played that for ages). 
After a few corners it was quite easy to get the hang of sliding nicely 
(using the handbrake or burn-out key to induce the slide...).  The only 
annoying thing is even on max draw distance things still pop up relatively 
close to you, which can be quite a problem when going fast.

It was a blast for 30 mins or so, but not really any long term appeal for 
me.

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> What do you mean by the first level?  Maybe my version is different.  On my 
> version the first level you had to drive to the police station and do a 
> basic firing test by shooting at dummy boards.

  The first level of actual gameplay. I don't count that tutorial intro as
the first level. The first level is the first car chase.

> Then next some guy drove off in a car and you had to follow him. 
> My car seemed to be slightly faster than his (I would be gradually catching 
> him up when going straight), but I had to be careful when turning not to hit 
> in to stuff to let him get away.  I found the best tactic was to actually 
> stay a certain distance behind him, then you are more prepared to take the 
> turn without crashing.

  I tried that at least 100 times, both with the keyboard+mouse and a
gamepad. I could not complete it.

  I am quite experienced gamer, I have played the first Driver through, as
well as other similar games, without problems.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>  I tried that at least 100 times, both with the keyboard+mouse and a
> gamepad. I could not complete it.

You mean this mission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmf134aqdcI

The one before that you have to follow the police to the siege, so you can't 
have been that bad at driving :-)

OOC why did you lose him?  DId you crash into other cars/buildings or just 
slow down too much for the corners?

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> OOC why did you lose him?  DId you crash into other cars/buildings or just 
> slow down too much for the corners?

  The car is basically uncontrollable. Drifting is extremely hard, you
very easily lose control of the car, if you touch a wall of anything you
are very likely to turn around 180 degrees, if you collide with anything
head-on you are screwed, the car can get turned upside down very easily,
the bad guy's car takes a random route around the city and other cars
appear randomly (so it's impossible to practice and memorize the exact
route), and the game is completely unforgiving about the bad guy getting
even some distance from you.

  I tried at least 100 times, and couldn't get even to one third of the
way (as shown in that youtube video). Most of the time I just crashed at
the very beginning, either on that narrow alley or on a tree right outside,
other times I got farther, but due to the uncontrollability of the car and
the completely random route, I always ended up colliding head-on with walls,
lamp posts or other cars. The game is completely unforgiving about collisions.
If you collide, you are screwed.

  And I have played the first Driver, and other similar car games, such as
Midtown Madness (1 and 2). No problems with those.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message