> There are actually some scripted chases where it's physically impossible 
> to catch the target, as they'll just accelerate at an insane pace to keep 
> ahead of you.

Yeh stuff like that is annoying, like when you crash for 2 minutes or go the 
wrong way, then within a few seconds you've caught them back up again.  I 
read an interesting article about coding game AI for "fun", it's pretty 
interesting and a lot more complex than most people imagine:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22141

I remember one mission (the last one on SA maybe) where you had to chase a 
car down and kill the driver.  I boxed in his car between two buildings so 
there was no way he could move.  My plan was to get out and shoot him, but 
when I got out the camera swung round, and when I looked back his car had 
magically moved back onto the road and he was driving off - even though this 
was completely impossible IRL.

I can understand the need for traffic and pedestrians to do unrealistic 
stuff to keep the CPU requirements down, but the main characters should be 
forced to behave in a physically correct way.

Post a reply to this message

"Slime" <fak### [at] emailaddress> wrote:
> > (why did they call the most recent one 4, by the way? It's at least the
> > 6th game
> > to bear the name)
>
> It makes sense to split the games into "main" games and "spinoffs." People
> who really like the series will play every game, whereas people who don't
> care as much can still play the main (numbered) ones and not feel like
> they're missing out.

....except that Vice City and San Andreas are both much, much better than GTA3
(the first 3D version), and are clearly not intended to be mere spinoffs. (So
far, I'm also finding San Andreas at least to be better than GTA4.) If I'd
played only GTA3 and GTA4, then read about what the story and game features are
like in VC and SA, I'd definitely feel that I completely missed out!

Thinking about it, GTA4 is the 4th 3D version. Perhaps the makers are just
excluding the older 2D versions before the franchise got popular...?

Post a reply to this message

Slime wrote:
> Controls aside, the game is very frustrating. The lack of save points is 
> very painful, especially during some of the later missions. In fact, I don't 
> think I would play another GTA game unless that specific point were 
> addressed.

I don't think there was a single mission I had to attempt more than 10 
times*, and that was only the very last mission where you're flying a 
helicopter.

Unlike the car and boat chases, there are only about 2 helicopter chases 
in the whole game, so you don't get a lot of practice in them.

*And I don't like it when you die repeatedly on a level, and the game 
just says "OK, you can go on anyway," or it makes the level easier, or 
something.  Maybe I'm just oldschool, but I like the satisfaction of 
beating it myself.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

Slime wrote:
> What platform are you used to, PC? 

Generally, altho I've played Bioshock thru 4 or 5 times, so I know it's not 
just my ham-fistedness.

> You might just need to be slower with the joystick.

I can see in the window. I move the joystick a tiny bit, and I can see him 
turn the wheel all the way to the side. Now I have to steer by tap-tapping 
the stick a short time.

> Controls aside, the game is very frustrating. The lack of save points is 
> very painful, especially during some of the later missions.

That'll probably be a deal-breaker for me if it goes on, as I usually have a 
scheduled amount of time to play a game, rather than sitting down for as 
long as I like. :-)

  In fact, I don't
> think I would play another GTA game unless that specific point were 
> addressed.
> 
>  - Slime
>  [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ] 
> 
> 


-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Chambers wrote:
> I don't think there was a single mission I had to attempt more than 10 
> times*, 

I think 10 attempts is way the heck too often, *especially* for a sandbox game.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Chambers wrote:
>> I don't think there was a single mission I had to attempt more than 10 
>> times*, 
> 
> I think 10 attempts is way the heck too often, *especially* for a 
> sandbox game.
> 

It's not that bad for most of the missions.  The main thing is that 
there are so many things to do, most people won't be great at *all* of 
them.  Some missions I was really good at and breezed through, others I 
had to attempt multiple times.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

>  Driv3r is completely unplayable. I cannot pass even the first level.

So I dug out this game over the weekend and had a drive about.

What do you mean by the first level?  Maybe my version is different.  On my 
version the first level you had to drive to the police station and do a 
basic firing test by shooting at dummy boards.  It was incredibly easy even 
though I hadn't got used to the mouse aim controls yet.  After that the next 
level was to drive to some building, shoot 3 or 4 people (again, they were 
really not good at shooting and I killed them all without losing much 
health).  Then next some guy drove off in a car and you had to follow him. 
My car seemed to be slightly faster than his (I would be gradually catching 
him up when going straight), but I had to be careful when turning not to hit 
in to stuff to let him get away.  I found the best tactic was to actually 
stay a certain distance behind him, then you are more prepared to take the 
turn without crashing.

I used the keyboard for control, and really thought it was quite similar to 
the original Driver controls (although I haven't played that for ages). 
After a few corners it was quite easy to get the hang of sliding nicely 
(using the handbrake or burn-out key to induce the slide...).  The only 
annoying thing is even on max draw distance things still pop up relatively 
close to you, which can be quite a problem when going fast.

It was a blast for 30 mins or so, but not really any long term appeal for 
me.

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> What do you mean by the first level?  Maybe my version is different.  On my 
> version the first level you had to drive to the police station and do a 
> basic firing test by shooting at dummy boards.

  The first level of actual gameplay. I don't count that tutorial intro as
the first level. The first level is the first car chase.

> Then next some guy drove off in a car and you had to follow him. 
> My car seemed to be slightly faster than his (I would be gradually catching 
> him up when going straight), but I had to be careful when turning not to hit 
> in to stuff to let him get away.  I found the best tactic was to actually 
> stay a certain distance behind him, then you are more prepared to take the 
> turn without crashing.

  I tried that at least 100 times, both with the keyboard+mouse and a
gamepad. I could not complete it.

  I am quite experienced gamer, I have played the first Driver through, as
well as other similar games, without problems.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>  I tried that at least 100 times, both with the keyboard+mouse and a
> gamepad. I could not complete it.

You mean this mission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmf134aqdcI

The one before that you have to follow the police to the siege, so you can't 
have been that bad at driving :-)

OOC why did you lose him?  DId you crash into other cars/buildings or just 
slow down too much for the corners?

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> OOC why did you lose him?  DId you crash into other cars/buildings or just 
> slow down too much for the corners?

  The car is basically uncontrollable. Drifting is extremely hard, you
very easily lose control of the car, if you touch a wall of anything you
are very likely to turn around 180 degrees, if you collide with anything
head-on you are screwed, the car can get turned upside down very easily,
the bad guy's car takes a random route around the city and other cars
appear randomly (so it's impossible to practice and memorize the exact
route), and the game is completely unforgiving about the bad guy getting
even some distance from you.

  I tried at least 100 times, and couldn't get even to one third of the
way (as shown in that youtube video). Most of the time I just crashed at
the very beginning, either on that narrow alley or on a tree right outside,
other times I got farther, but due to the uncontrollability of the car and
the completely random route, I always ended up colliding head-on with walls,
lamp posts or other cars. The game is completely unforgiving about collisions.
If you collide, you are screwed.

  And I have played the first Driver, and other similar car games, such as
Midtown Madness (1 and 2). No problems with those.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message