scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> I don't see how that would work for most German banks, as before a 
> transaction is made you need to enter a special code from a use-once list 
> that is provided from your bank.

  Here not only that, but even if you used the online bank at a public
computer (you shouldn't, of course, but if) and even if for whatever reason
you forget to log out, the next user could see your bank details (how much
money you have, etc) but he wouldn't be able to transfer any money anywhere
without the code card.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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> (I understand in Europe that if someone steals your bank card or credit 
> card, you actually have to pay off the charges?)

Never heard of that, it's happened to me a few times and I just phoned them 
up and told them it wasn't me.  Each time they just cancelled the amount and 
sent me a new card.  Credit card companies especially make plenty of money 
by charging people ridiculous interest rates if they don't pay off the 
balance, they can more than cover what they lose...

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>  Here not only that, but even if you used the online bank at a public
> computer (you shouldn't, of course, but if) and even if for whatever 
> reason
> you forget to log out, the next user could see your bank details (how much
> money you have, etc) but he wouldn't be able to transfer any money 
> anywhere
> without the code card.

Hehe, in Germany you can then just go to amanzon.de (or most other German 
websites) and use their bank account info to buy stuff.  It's unbelievable 
to me how that is possible, but it seems not many people abuse this system. 
Also once you have given your bank details to a 3rd party to take money from 
your account (eg a mobile phone contract) it is then impossible (AFAIK) to 
prevent them taking money (eg if you cancelled the contract).  In the UK at 
least you have to first authorise such agreements, and can cancel them at 
any time at the click of a button, which makes it impossible for them to 
take the money.

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scott wrote:
>> (I understand in Europe that if someone steals your bank card or 
>> credit card, you actually have to pay off the charges?)
> 
> Never heard of that, 

OK. I've heard it, so either things have changed or it's different in 
different countries.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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scott wrote:
> Also once you have given your bank details to a 3rd 
> party to take money from your account (eg a mobile phone contract) it is 
> then impossible (AFAIK) to prevent them taking money (eg if you 
> cancelled the contract).  

I think that's what I was talking about. People are very protective of their 
bank details, where in the US, you need to authorize the withdraw in writing.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I think that's what I was talking about. People are very protective of their 
> bank details, where in the US, you need to authorize the withdraw in writing.

  I don't really understand why giving your bank details to someone would
be in any way dangerous. It's not like they could withdraw money by simply
knowing your account number.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> It's not like they could withdraw money by simply
> knowing your account number.

Well, here people are worried about identity theft. (I.e., the ability to 
illegally withdraw money without your permission.) I understand that in some 
countries the onus is on you to prove the withdraw was illegal.

I.e., in the USA, with a credit card, you have the choice of not paying the 
bill until the bank proves you really authorized that transfer. With a debit 
card, the money is gone and spent, and it's up to the individual to prove to 
the bank that the transfer was *not* authorized, which is a much harder 
thing to do, of course.  (Hence why I don't own a debit card. :-)

My info may be either out of date or restricted to a small subset of 
countries in Europe, or both.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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On 5-10-2009 18:06, Warp wrote:
> scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
>> I don't see how that would work for most German banks, as before a 
>> transaction is made you need to enter a special code from a use-once list 
>> that is provided from your bank.
> 
>   Here not only that, but even if you used the online bank at a public
> computer (you shouldn't, of course, but if) and even if for whatever reason
> you forget to log out, the next user could see your bank details (how much
> money you have, etc) but he wouldn't be able to transfer any money anywhere
> without the code card.
> 

For comparison: if I make a payment over the internet my bank sends me 
an SMS with a 5 digit number to enter. Not logging off is dumb but they 
won't be able to transfer money. One of the complications is when you 
don't have access to your mobile phone. Then you can not pay a certain 
type of bills (at least it is much more difficult and at least involves 
changing security settings. I have never need to do that).

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andrel wrote:
> For comparison: if I make a payment over the internet my bank sends me 
> an SMS with a 5 digit number to enter.

Yeah. Here they're relying on the phone company as their authentication 
provider.  I think both google and facebook allow that too, but that's to 
cut down on spam, or some such.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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On 6-10-2009 0:10, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> For comparison: if I make a payment over the internet my bank sends me 
>> an SMS with a 5 digit number to enter.
> 
> Yeah. Here they're relying on the phone company as their authentication 
> provider.  
Same sort of procedure?

> I think both google and facebook allow that too, but that's 
> to cut down on spam, or some such.


How does that work?

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