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28 Sep 2024 17:26:41 EDT (-0400)
  Free will and justice (Message 1 to 3 of 3)  
From: clipka
Subject: Free will and justice
Date: 17 Sep 2009 08:23:12
Message: <4ab22a30$1@news.povray.org>
Just one thought on free will and justice:

In discussing whether nature holds a place for such a thing as "free 
will" (whatever that may exactly be), or whether we are just acting out 
of determinism and/or random chance, it is occasionally noted that 
non-existence of a free will would have implications on justice, 
especially on the question whether a person can be punished or not.

I disagree. Strongly, actually.

Punishment is used for various reasons:

- To discourage people from doing things that are assumed to be bad: 
What would change if there was no "free will"? Nothing. Deterrence is 
based on the notion of some degree of determinism in everybody's 
behaviour: Punishment hurts; people tend to avoid getting hurt; 
therefore, punishment makes people tend to avoid doing bad things (or at 
least getting caught doing so).

- To "better" people who have done things that are assumed to be bad: 
Actually, this is just a variation on deterrence. By having people 
actually suffer the threatend punishment, it is presumed that the 
deterrence is enforced on a more instinctive basis. Something like 
Pavlov's dogs.

- To actually prevent people who have done things that are assumed to be 
bad from doing it again, for instance by locking them away. Now this is 
just a way to protect others from people who do wrong. Obviously, for 
this sake it doesn't matter whether a person is doing wrong because of a 
free-will decision or some inability to do otherwise: If they're 
notoriously harming others, it is reasonable to ensure they just can't.

- To compensate, i.e. "undo" the negative consequences of someone's 
actions. Again, in this concept it doesn't matter whether the bad deed 
was of free will or determinism, nor even whether the person is likely 
to repeat it at all: If someone did wrong, it is reasonable to demand 
that he make up for it (provided he is capable of doing so).

Now so far, we have seen nothing that would be questionable without free 
will. But there's one other reason which I set aside:

- To take revenge: This is the only reason for punishment I can think of 
that would have no acceptable place in a world without free will. Thing 
is, it is also the very reason for punishment that I think has no 
acceptable place in the world anyway, free will or not.


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Free will and justice
Date: 17 Sep 2009 12:39:14
Message: <4ab26632@news.povray.org>
clipka wrote:
> I disagree. Strongly, actually.

If everything is predetermined, we can no more avoid punishing the person 
who commits a crime than that person can avoid committing the crime in the 
first place. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Free will and justice
Date: 17 Sep 2009 15:38:40
Message: <4ab29040$1@news.povray.org>
Darren New schrieb:
> If everything is predetermined, we can no more avoid punishing the 
> person who commits a crime than that person can avoid committing the 
> crime in the first place. :-)

Good point :-)

Hm... maybe we can punish people at random...


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