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scott <sco### [at] scott com> wrote:
> It's just the dull grey of aluminium oxide you are seeing on the outer
> surface. If you looked close and polished them a bit you'd see nice shiny
> aluminium :-)
What stops the aluminum from oxidizing all the way through?
--
- Warp
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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > And isn't alumina pretty much transparent at the thicknesses it's likely
> > to
> > reach in ambient conditions?
>
> Having had a car with bare aluminium panels, I can tell you that it quickly
> goes dull grey if you don't polish it :-) I have no idea what the thickness
> is, but it certainly is visibly very different.
Ah, fair enough, I must be thinking of something else.
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:13:50 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>You're aware that those cables are carrying several *million* volts?
No.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 3 Sep 2009 05:39:36 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
>> It's just the dull grey of aluminium oxide you are seeing on the outer
>> surface. If you looked close and polished them a bit you'd see nice shiny
>> aluminium :-)
>
> What stops the aluminum from oxidizing all the way through?
Aluminium oxide. Aluminium is so reactive that it almost instantly forms a skin
of aluminium oxide which insulates it from the surrounding air stopping it from
oxidising further.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > It's just the dull grey of aluminium oxide you are seeing on the outer
> > surface. If you looked close and polished them a bit you'd see nice shiny
> > aluminium :-)
>
> What stops the aluminum from oxidizing all the way through?
The initial oxide layer. It slows further oxygen access to the bulk beneath.
Aluminium oxide is particularly effective at this - many high-temperature
alloys are designed with this phenomenon in mind.
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Invisible wrote:
>
> You're aware that those cables are carrying several *million* volts?
>
Where is that kind of voltage used?
The biggest powerlines in Finland are carrying 400kV.
-Aero
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Invisible wrote:
>>> Why do overhead cables never flap around in the wind? Come to think
>>> of it, why doesn't rain short out power cables?
>>
>> Those cables are pulled rather tight, also take a close look at high
>> tension wires, they'll have some funny looking thing hanging off of
>> them that looks like some sort of paddle, This also helps with the
>> wind. And they're too far apart to short out in the rain. Fresh water
>> is actually not a great conductor, and air is even a worse conductor.
>> Submerge them in salt water, and they'll short for sure.
>
> Rain water isn't chemically pure. (Depending on pollution levels.) Once
> the pylon gets wet, it's entire surface is covered in a continuous sheet
> of water, which also covers all of the cables. So why don't they short out?
>
Right, but think of the impedance and the distances the electricity
needs to travel. It's not chemically pure, and may be mildly conductive,
but the layer is thin, and not continuous. There's enough resistance to
current that it doesn't flow.
>
> [Actually, apparently peppers are hot due to an antifungal toxin...]
Hmm, and I thought it was to discourage mammals from eating them, since
some mammals can actually destroy the seeds before they're "deposited"
> Seems plausible, I guess...
--
~Mike
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Invisible wrote:
>
> You're aware that those cables are carrying several *million* volts?
>
At most about 500kV. Typically 250kV. ;) Not millions.
>
> Well, this stuff clearly works - it's just a mystery to me *why* it
> works. ;-)
Physics is why it works ;)
--
~Mike
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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> The initial oxide layer. It slows further oxygen access to the bulk beneath.
> Aluminium oxide is particularly effective at this - many high-temperature
> alloys are designed with this phenomenon in mind.
The oxide layer also doesn't flake off like, say, iron oxide. So no
fresh metal is exposed.
--
~Mike
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scott schrieb:
>> Why do overhead cables never flap around in the wind?
>
> Actually they do, it's just it's usually very fast and very low
> amplitude flapping. Imagine holding out a stretched violin string in
> the wind, it's not really going to flap is it?
Indeed, in strong wind you can actually hear such cables "sing".
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>>> Why do overhead cables never flap around in the wind?
>>
>> Actually they do, it's just it's usually very fast and very low
>> amplitude flapping. Imagine holding out a stretched violin string in
>> the wind, it's not really going to flap is it?
>
> Indeed, in strong wind you can actually hear such cables "sing".
I don't know about that, but I *do* know that there's a particular
petrol station I sometimes go to, situated under a ****ing huge set of
pylons. As soon as you get out of the car, all you can hear is an
unearthly crackling sound... I can't describe it, but it's really
quite... worrying.
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Invisible wrote:
> I don't know about that, but I *do* know that there's a particular
> petrol station I sometimes go to, situated under a ****ing huge set of
> pylons. As soon as you get out of the car, all you can hear is an
> unearthly crackling sound... I can't describe it, but it's really
> quite... worrying.
Haha... There's a park near where I live that was basically turned into
a park to make use of land that would otherwise be unusable due to the
power lines. 2 sets, one (I'm guessing, here) a 100kV and the other at
least 250kV (I can only tell one caries a lot more power, one has twin
lines for each phase)
Standing under the twin-line set is creepy as hell. They crackle and
buzz quite audibly. The other lines, are very quiet, they don't make a
sound.
--
~Mike
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> Standing under the twin-line set is creepy as hell. They crackle and
> buzz quite audibly. The other lines, are very quiet, they don't make a
> sound.
Mmm. Petrol station. No naked flames. Switch off engine. No mobile
phones. Bzzzzzzzzzzz.
That can't be good(tm)!
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scott wrote:
>> Did mushrooms evolve to be poisonous because that's advantageous
>> somehow? Or do they just happen to be poisonous to animals because of
>> their unusual chemistry?
>
> Both.
One thing I haven't figured out is why poisonous prey animals (frogs,
butterflies, etc) wind up being brightly colored.
If you're trying to avoid being eaten, it would seem that being hard to see
is a benefit whether you're poisonous or not.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> One thing I haven't figured out is why poisonous prey animals (frogs,
> butterflies, etc) wind up being brightly colored.
AFAIK the bright colors work as a warning signal. Predators learn to
distinguish the poisonous prey by their color.
It would make little sense to just have poison but otherwise look edible.
Both predator and prey get killed. With a warning color both live.
(By this logic it would follow that some species mimic the color of
poisonous species. I wonder if there are examples of this.)
--
- Warp
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scott wrote:
> Anyway, take 200 metres of this stuff (which I make weighs 10 tons):
> http://www.csunitec.com/saws/new-river-band-saw.html
Cool. It doesn't really look that big from the ground, does it?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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scott wrote:
>> It feels like everybody is writing like power cables were bare metal
>> wires
>> with nothing covering them.
>
> That's how they are actually:
Phone lines used to be bare wire too, and you can sometimes see that (at
least in the USA) running next to train tracks (it tends to look greenish).
Of course, when they invented ways to insulate the wires, they could start
bundling them and/or running them underground.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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>> One thing I haven't figured out is why poisonous prey animals (frogs,
>> butterflies, etc) wind up being brightly colored.
>
> AFAIK the bright colors work as a warning signal. Predators learn to
> distinguish the poisonous prey by their color.
>
> It would make little sense to just have poison but otherwise look edible.
> Both predator and prey get killed. With a warning color both live.
>
> (By this logic it would follow that some species mimic the color of
> poisonous species. I wonder if there are examples of this.)
Hoverflies look very like wasps, but have no venom.
False nettles look like stinging nettles, but lack a sting.
I couldn't give you a name, but I'm pretty sure there are snakes which
are harmless yet mimic deadly ones...
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:43:01 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Standing under the twin-line set is creepy as hell. They crackle and
>> buzz quite audibly. The other lines, are very quiet, they don't make a
>> sound.
>
>Mmm. Petrol station. No naked flames. Switch off engine. No mobile
>phones. Bzzzzzzzzzzz.
>
>That can't be good(tm)!
Actually it is quite hard to ignite petrol from a petrol pump with a naked
flame.
Besides having a LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) petrol has an Upper Explosive Limit
(UEL) where above that level the gas/air mixture is too rich to burn. In the
open air the gas/air mixture goes from too rich to too leen very quickly. I once
saw a petrol pump attendant put a lit cigarette into the mouth of a full petrol
tank.
I would not do it myself, though. ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:23:03 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Each episode
How many (and which ones) did you watch?
Jim
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:27:43 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Some tiny minority of the population, perhaps. But that wouldn't explain
> it being so popular.
If it was popular, then by definition it was understood by most of those
who watched it. This is not an implementation of your "alternative
hypothesis", as it has nothing to do with intelligence.
Escapism can be good for some people, and for some people, the show
worked for that.
Jim
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On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:05:32 -0700, Chambers wrote:
> 101 isn't usually the "for noobs" section, but rather the "first course
> appropriate for college" level.
Well, maybe not now, but when I was in college, PS101 was colloquially
referred to as "Bonehead Chemistry". ;-)
Jim
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:06:16 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Maybe the first unis that did this figured people were Pascal-based
>> rather than C-based. (Pascal, IIRC, starts arrays at '1', C starts at
>> '0').
>
> As *I* remember, Pascal arrays start at whatever index you tell them to
> start at. (E.g, you can make the first index be 17 if you want...)
>
> VAR stuff : ARRAY [17..21] OF INT;
I was thinking positions for a string. In Pascal, using the string
"abcdef", position 1 is "a". In C, it's position 0.
Jim
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:14:41 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Rain water isn't chemically pure. (Depending on pollution levels.) Once
> the pylon gets wet, it's entire surface is covered in a continuous sheet
> of water, which also covers all of the cables. So why don't they short
> out?
Because the bare wire isn't exposed, it's insulated. And in order to
short out, you have to have a path for electrons to flow. Arguably it
would take a pretty strong rainstorm to give the current someplace to go
to.
Jim
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > One thing I haven't figured out is why poisonous prey animals (frogs,
> > butterflies, etc) wind up being brightly colored.
>
> AFAIK the bright colors work as a warning signal. Predators learn to
> distinguish the poisonous prey by their color.
>
> It would make little sense to just have poison but otherwise look edible.
> Both predator and prey get killed. With a warning color both live.
>
> (By this logic it would follow that some species mimic the color of
> poisonous species. I wonder if there are examples of this.)
>
> --
> - Warp
The viceroy butterfly mimics the poisonous monarch butterfly for protection from
predators. Its fairly common among many species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batesian_mimicry
Isaac.
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:07:32 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>> Are mushrooms poisonous on purpose, or by accident?
>>
>> That implies a will behind their creation. And not all mushrooms are
>> poisonous. Take the ones that I had on my hamburger last night.....
>> ;-)
>
> No it doesn't.
Yes, it does. "On purpose" implies an intelligence is behind their
creation, purposefully making them the way they are.
> Did mushrooms evolve to be poisonous because that's advantageous
> somehow? Or do they just happen to be poisonous to animals because of
> their unusual chemistry?
Perhaps some of both.
Jim
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> One thing I haven't figured out is why poisonous prey animals (frogs,
>> butterflies, etc) wind up being brightly colored.
>
> AFAIK the bright colors work as a warning signal. Predators learn to
> distinguish the poisonous prey by their color.
This clearly works poorly if the prey is so poisonous they kill the predator
with one meal.
> It would make little sense to just have poison but otherwise look edible.
> Both predator and prey get killed. With a warning color both live.
So which evolved first? At some point, you're poisonous enough to make the
predator sick, but bright enough to be easily found? I understand the
hand-waving explanation. It's the details I don't really follow.
> (By this logic it would follow that some species mimic the color of
> poisonous species. I wonder if there are examples of this.)
Yes, quite a few. Both monarch butterflies (and their immitators) and that
kind of snake with the red/black/yellow stripes whose name I forget springs
to mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batesian_mimicry
Oh, there's the snake. GIYF. Can you tell which is poisonous and which
isn't? Notice the different order of the stripes.
http://www.pestproducts.com/images/coral.jpg
http://www.pestproducts.com/images/sckng.jpg
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:06:55 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> So it is much simplier
> and cheaper for overhead cables to be left bare and make sure that there
> is a lot of space between them.
Weird, over here, the power lines are insulated....
Jim
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:37:20 +0200, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
> Actually it is quite hard to ignite petrol from a petrol pump with a
> naked flame.
That depends on the flame.
> Besides having a LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) petrol has an Upper
> Explosive Limit (UEL) where above that level the gas/air mixture is
> too rich to burn. In the open air the gas/air mixture goes from too
> rich to too leen very quickly. I once saw a petrol pump attendant put
> a lit cigarette into the mouth of a full petrol tank.
http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html#cigarettes
--
FE
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:55:43 +0200, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> AFAIK the bright colors work as a warning signal. Predators learn to
>> distinguish the poisonous prey by their color.
>
> This clearly works poorly if the prey is so poisonous they kill the
> predator with one meal.
It works perfectly if the predator does not eat the prey himself, but
instead feeds his offspring with it.
--
FE
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Well, maybe not now, but when I was in college, PS101 was colloquially
> referred to as "Bonehead Chemistry". ;-)
Yes. It should be noted (for those outside the USA's idioms) that many 101
courses were targeted at people who were not planning to take another course
in the subject. A literature major might take Computers 101, while a
computer science major might take Sociology 101.
Hence, if someone says "Geez, you should know that, that's 100-level stuff"
that's why. (Note that "100-level" means all the 101, 102, etc courses.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> It works perfectly if the predator does not eat the prey himself, but
> instead feeds his offspring with it.
<laugh> For some definition of the word "perfectly" I suppose. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:09:25 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> A literature major might take Computers 101
This is a good point - the CS101 class where I went to school was
basically a class on using an office suite ("Enable" was what the
software was called - wonder how many people here have heard of it and/or
used it) and software like Harvard Graphics to build presentations.
Jim
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Darren New schrieb:
> scott wrote:
>> Anyway, take 200 metres of this stuff (which I make weighs 10 tons):
>> http://www.csunitec.com/saws/new-river-band-saw.html
>
> Cool. It doesn't really look that big from the ground, does it?
Those are cables for underground power transmission. They need an awful
lot of insulation I bet. So overhead lines are likely to be a good deal
thinner. The German Wikipedia mentions a typical cross-section of 60
mm^2 of steel surrounded by 257 mm^2 of aluminum, so the diameter should
be close to 20 mm.
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Fredrik Eriksson <fe79}--at--{yahoo}--dot--{com> wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:55:43 +0200, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > Warp wrote:
> >> AFAIK the bright colors work as a warning signal. Predators learn to
> >> distinguish the poisonous prey by their color.
> >
> > This clearly works poorly if the prey is so poisonous they kill the
> > predator with one meal.
> It works perfectly if the predator does not eat the prey himself, but
> instead feeds his offspring with it.
Note that not all poisons are deadly.
--
- Warp
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Oh, there's the snake. GIYF. Can you tell which is poisonous and which
> isn't? Notice the different order of the stripes.
>
"Red on yellow, kills a fellow..." I forget the rest, but remembering the first
part is enough, really.
-Reactor
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Reactor wrote:
> "Red on yellow, kills a fellow..." I forget the rest, but remembering the first
> part is enough, really.
The rest goes "Red on Black will kill Jack."
Me, I'll stay away from both of em. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:50:51 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Reactor wrote:
>> "Red on yellow, kills a fellow..." I forget the rest, but remembering
>> the first part is enough, really.
>
> The rest goes "Red on Black will kill Jack."
>
> Me, I'll stay away from both of em. ;-)
But your name isn't Jack, at least I don't think it is. ;-)
Jim
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>> As *I* remember, Pascal arrays start at whatever index you tell them to
>> start at. (E.g, you can make the first index be 17 if you want...)
>>
>> VAR stuff : ARRAY [17..21] OF INT;
>
> I was thinking positions for a string. In Pascal, using the string
> "abcdef", position 1 is "a". In C, it's position 0.
Probably.
IIRC, in Turbo Pascal, position 0 is the length. (And since it's a
single byte, no strings longer than 255 characters...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:56:30 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> As *I* remember, Pascal arrays start at whatever index you tell them
>>> to start at. (E.g, you can make the first index be 17 if you want...)
>>>
>>> VAR stuff : ARRAY [17..21] OF INT;
>>
>> I was thinking positions for a string. In Pascal, using the string
>> "abcdef", position 1 is "a". In C, it's position 0.
>
> Probably.
>
> IIRC, in Turbo Pascal, position 0 is the length. (And since it's a
> single byte, no strings longer than 255 characters...)
Yep, Turbo Pascal stored the length rather than using the C method of
null-terminating the string.
Jim
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>> IIRC, in Turbo Pascal, position 0 is the length. (And since it's a
>> single byte, no strings longer than 255 characters...)
>
> Yep, Turbo Pascal stored the length rather than using the C method of
> null-terminating the string.
...with the disadvantage of having a maximum string size, and the
advantage of making certain memory management operations much easier...
Ah, the days of plain ASCII, before anybody spoke of Unicode. Hey, wait
a sec - C is *still* back in the days of plain ASCII...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:14:27 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> IIRC, in Turbo Pascal, position 0 is the length. (And since it's a
>>> single byte, no strings longer than 255 characters...)
>>
>> Yep, Turbo Pascal stored the length rather than using the C method of
>> null-terminating the string.
>
> ...with the disadvantage of having a maximum string size, and the
> advantage of making certain memory management operations much easier...
Yep.
> Ah, the days of plain ASCII, before anybody spoke of Unicode. Hey, wait
> a sec - C is *still* back in the days of plain ASCII...
Not with a good unicode library. ;-)
Jim
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On 3-9-2009 11:09, Stephen wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:06:46 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>
>>>> Rain water isn't chemically pure. (Depending on pollution levels.) Once
>>>> the pylon gets wet, it's entire surface is covered in a continuous sheet
>>>> of water, which also covers all of the cables. So why don't they short out?
>>> There are insulators between the cables and pylons so there is no path for the
>>> electricity to flow there.
>> Indeed. This is why it works when they're dry.
>>
>> However, when those insulators are covered with a continuous layer of
>> water...
>
> Look at the insulators, they are a strange shape. That shape ensures that they
> are not covered with a continuous layer of water. Magic, isn't it :)
For some reason I saw nobody referring to these as 'magic mushrooms', I
wonder why.
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> ...with the disadvantage of having a maximum string size,
Every machine has a maximum string size. What you really mean is "a maximum
string size small enough I've bumped into it often enough to be annoying."
I knew a professor who taught "There's two kinds of programming languages.
Those that support bounds-checks on their fundamental data types, and those
that don't know they need to support bounds-checks on their fundamental data
types." (Or something to that effect.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On 3 Sep 2009 12:17:42 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>and software like Harvard Graphics
A rave from the grave :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 23:14:25 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> Look at the insulators, they are a strange shape. That shape ensures that they
>> are not covered with a continuous layer of water. Magic, isn't it :)
>
>For some reason I saw nobody referring to these as 'magic mushrooms', I
>wonder why.
'Caus you'd be spaced out :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 3 Sep 2009 11:54:01 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:14:41 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>
>> Rain water isn't chemically pure. (Depending on pollution levels.) Once
>> the pylon gets wet, it's entire surface is covered in a continuous sheet
>> of water, which also covers all of the cables. So why don't they short
>> out?
>
>Because the bare wire isn't exposed, it's insulated.
Not on this side of the pond, Jim.
>And in order to
>short out, you have to have a path for electrons to flow. Arguably it
>would take a pretty strong rainstorm to give the current someplace to go
>to.
>
I think he means jump or track to.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 3 Sep 2009 11:58:49 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:06:55 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> So it is much simplier
>> and cheaper for overhead cables to be left bare and make sure that there
>> is a lot of space between them.
>
>Weird, over here, the power lines are insulated....
>
Yes but you Yanks have money to burn :P
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:59:21 +0200, "Fredrik Eriksson"
<fe79}--at--{yahoo}--dot--{com> wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:37:20 +0200, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
>> Actually it is quite hard to ignite petrol from a petrol pump with a
>> naked flame.
>
>That depends on the flame.
>
Yip! A thermite lance or a nova will do it ;)
>
>> Besides having a LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) petrol has an Upper
>> Explosive Limit (UEL) where above that level the gas/air mixture is
>> too rich to burn. In the open air the gas/air mixture goes from too
>> rich to too leen very quickly. I once saw a petrol pump attendant put
>> a lit cigarette into the mouth of a full petrol tank.
>
>http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html#cigarettes
That agrees with what I said, I think.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:36:00 +0200, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:59:21 +0200, "Fredrik Eriksson"
> <fe79}--at--{yahoo}--dot--{com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:37:20 +0200, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
>>> Actually it is quite hard to ignite petrol from a petrol pump with a
>>> naked flame.
>>
>> That depends on the flame.
>>
>
> Yip! A thermite lance or a nova will do it ;)
A match will do just as well.
>>> Besides having a LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) petrol has an Upper
>>> Explosive Limit (UEL) where above that level the gas/air mixture is
>>> too rich to burn. In the open air the gas/air mixture goes from too
>>> rich to too leen very quickly. I once saw a petrol pump attendant put
>>> a lit cigarette into the mouth of a full petrol tank.
>>
>> http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/mpmain.html#cigarettes
>
> That agrees with what I said, I think.
Regarding cigarettes, yes.
--
FE
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