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http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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Darren New wrote:
> http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
Not exactly the gentlest introduction to Inform, but still amazing. And
to think old Infocom games were originally programmed in a Lisp-related
language... :P
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
I don't understand.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
>
> I don't understand.
What don't you understand? It's source code for an adventure game.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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Darren New escreveu:
> Warp wrote:
>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>> http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
>>
>> I don't understand.
>
> What don't you understand? It's source code for an adventure game.
yes, one like this:
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/curses.z5.js
Incidentally, not working on IE7 right now and this in particular
developed with an early release of Inform in the 90's. Had more to do
with Perl back then...
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/curses.z5.js
I really miss the text adventure games of the 80's. They don't make that
type of games anymore.
And by that, I'm talking about *graphical* text adventures, not purely
textual text adventures.
In a graphical text adventure the upper half (or about half) of the
screen was the actual image (usually with vector graphics and sprites)
of your current location. The lower half of the screen contained the
normal textual description and the command prompt.
And the image was (usually) not just a decoration, but served a real
purpose. It was interactive.
For example, the textual description of the location might not have
described an apple at all, but the image might show an apple somewhere.
You could then write "examine apple" and it would describe the apple.
You could then "take apple" and the apple would actually be removed from
the image (and added to your inventory).
Likewise the image might show a door (not necessarily mentioned at all
in the textual description of the location), and if you "open door", the
image of the door would change to show an open door.
But that's not the only reason why I liked graphical text adventures.
Call me unimaginative if you like (I really don't consider myself to be,
but whatever), but I really like it when the text adventure shows me an
image of the place, rather than showing me a 10 lines long boring
description.
Oh, and the best text adventures back then had a unique image for every
single room. (Many of them reused parts of other similar images, which was
easy as the images were usually drawn using vector graphics, but nevertheless
they usually showed something for that room that made it unique.) Maybe if
you were in a maze then some images might have been repeated (but mazes
were usually frowned upon because of adding only fake difficulty and not
real content).
I have never seen such a graphical text adventure since the 80's. Adventure
games went into two completely different directions:
1) Almost pure graphics, ie. point-and-click graphical adventures.
2) Pure text. No graphics. Nada.
You won't find graphical text adventures anymore, which is a real shame.
(Or at least I haven't found any, even though I have searched.)
Nowadays hobbyists will write so-called "interactive fiction". I find
many of these games to be very boring. They are more like choose-your-
adventure books (with one single path you can take) rather than real text
adventure games. They concentrate too much on the story and too little on
gameplay. They often lack puzzles which are interesting and require ingenuity.
They are not games. They are "guess the command to advance in the story"
programs.
If I want to read a short story, I'll read a short story. What I want is
to play a text adventure. A graphical one.
--
- Warp
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On 09/02/09 14:01, Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>> http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
>>
>> I don't understand.
>
> What don't you understand? It's source code for an adventure game.
Clearly not very readable if he didn't understand ;-)
If anyone's coding a text adventure, they may also want to look at the
TADS authoring system - although Inform may still have the majority of
the market.
--
Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.
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On 09/02/09 15:25, Warp wrote:
> For example, the textual description of the location might not have
> described an apple at all, but the image might show an apple somewhere.
> You could then write "examine apple" and it would describe the apple.
> You could then "take apple" and the apple would actually be removed from
> the image (and added to your inventory).
If you just want static images, then it wouldn't surprise me if all the
major engines out there should let you do this.
--
Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.
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Warp wrote:
> nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/curses.z5.js
>
> Nowadays hobbyists will write so-called "interactive fiction". I find
> many of these games to be very boring. They are more like choose-your-
> adventure books (with one single path you can take) rather than real text
> adventure games. They concentrate too much on the story and too little on
> gameplay. They often lack puzzles which are interesting and require ingenuity.
> They are not games. They are "guess the command to advance in the story"
> programs.
True. Sometimes people get lost on the ambition to write a sort of
interactive novel and forget about gameplay.
The game I linked to is a true game though and very good at that
(including in the "boring" descriptions). Short, straightforward story
(but still intriguing enough) and plenty of good puzzle-solving and
exploration.
Writing is about as good as you can get too, the guy is not just a
programmer and mathematician, but a poet as well.
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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 09/02/09 14:01, Darren New wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> http://inform7.com/learn/man/ex156.html#e156
>>>
>>> I don't understand.
>>
>> What don't you understand? It's source code for an adventure game.
>
> Clearly not very readable if he didn't understand ;-)
>
> If anyone's coding a text adventure, they may also want to look at
> the TADS authoring system - although Inform may still have the majority
> of the market.
Probably more to Warp's taste in its full object-oriented API and
Java-like syntax.
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nemesis wrote:
> True. Sometimes people get lost on the ambition to write a sort of
> interactive novel and forget about gameplay.
Interestingly, the reason I posted that is I finally came up with an idea
for a piece of interactive fiction to write.
> Writing is about as good as you can get too, the guy is not just a
> programmer and mathematician, but a poet as well.
I actually got teary-eyed the first time I finished Advent550. :-)
And I still have the original FORTRAN source code listing on a shelf.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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On 09/02/09 21:42, Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> True. Sometimes people get lost on the ambition to write a sort of
>> interactive novel and forget about gameplay.
>
> Interestingly, the reason I posted that is I finally came up with an
> idea for a piece of interactive fiction to write.
Settled on Inform?
--
It is kisstomary to cuss the bride.
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On 09/02/09 21:35, nemesis wrote:
>> If anyone's coding a text adventure, they may also want to look at the
>> TADS authoring system - although Inform may still have the majority of
>> the market.
>
> Probably more to Warp's taste in its full object-oriented API and
> Java-like syntax.
More to my taste, too, if I ever write one. I'm not fond of either Java
or C++. However, I do like the OO'ness and it seems easier to get custom
behavior - not sure I'll need that, though.
--
It is kisstomary to cuss the bride.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > True. Sometimes people get lost on the ambition to write a sort of
> > interactive novel and forget about gameplay.
>
> Interestingly, the reason I posted that is I finally came up with an idea
> for a piece of interactive fiction to write.
Great, man! Let us know when it's ready! :)
> > Writing is about as good as you can get too, the guy is not just a
> > programmer and mathematician, but a poet as well.
>
> I actually got teary-eyed the first time I finished Advent550. :-)
> And I still have the original FORTRAN source code listing on a shelf.
Complete classic. Pure cave crawl plus some puzzles... no, never had the guts
to play it more than for historical curiosity. It's still far more bearable
though than, say, King's Quest 1 with its primitive graphics.
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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 09/02/09 21:42, Darren New wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>> True. Sometimes people get lost on the ambition to write a sort of
>>> interactive novel and forget about gameplay.
>>
>> Interestingly, the reason I posted that is I finally came up with an
>> idea for a piece of interactive fiction to write.
>
> Settled on Inform?
Yeah. Much cooler to play with than TADS. :-) I just wish the C++ compiler
I'm using spat out error messages as helpful as Inform. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Darren New wrote:
> Yeah. Much cooler to play with than TADS. :-) I just wish the C++
> compiler I'm using spat out error messages as helpful as Inform. ;-)
And, to combine two threads into one:
Poems that actually compile and run in Inform7...
http://nbhorvath.blogspot.com/2006/12/inform-7-code-poem-challenge.html
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Poems that actually compile and run in Inform7...
>
> http://nbhorvath.blogspot.com/2006/12/inform-7-code-poem-challenge.html
amazing. Some years ago it was Perl, but this reads much better... :)
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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Poems that actually compile and run in Inform7...
>>
>> http://nbhorvath.blogspot.com/2006/12/inform-7-code-poem-challenge.html
>
> amazing. Some years ago it was Perl, but this reads much better... :)
It's cool. It's actually using the game's parser to compile the "english"
into something called Inform6, which is much like TADS, i.e., an
OO/procedural syntax-heavy (relatively) language for adventure games. Which
I thought was beyond awesome. You can actually read all the rules for the
stuff it understands, like north is opposite of south and lit objects in
transparent containers shed light into the room.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Darren New wrote:
> It's cool.
Hee heee! Tabstops sizes are specified in points!
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On 09/03/09 20:39, nemesis wrote:
> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Poems that actually compile and run in Inform7...
>>
>> http://nbhorvath.blogspot.com/2006/12/inform-7-code-poem-challenge.html
>
> amazing. Some years ago it was Perl, but this reads much better... :)
Doing it in Perl is still cooler. Inform's meant to be readable. Perl's
meant to be unreadable.
--
Why a man would want a wife is a big mystery to some people. Why a man
would want *two* wives is a bigamystery.
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While we're on the topic of text adventures, I just played last year's
IFComp winner:
http://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=4glrrfh7wrp9zz7b
Need a z-interpreter that can handle the .blorb file. On Linux I used
Fizmo.
The puzzles are just above mediocre. It's a short game, and you can
type HINT if you get impatient. The cool thing about it is that it
really does capture the essence of your mood when you're just
procrastinating.
--
Why a man would want a wife is a big mystery to some people. Why a man
would want *two* wives is a bigamystery.
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Neeum Zawan <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
> Perl's meant to be unreadable.
I don't think that's true. Something like Brainfuck, Whitespace or Befunge
is meant to be unreadable.
--
- Warp
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> Poems that actually compile and run in Inform7...
> >>
> >> http://nbhorvath.blogspot.com/2006/12/inform-7-code-poem-challenge.html
> >
> > amazing. Some years ago it was Perl, but this reads much better... :)
>
> It's cool. It's actually using the game's parser to compile the "english"
> into something called Inform6, which is much like TADS, i.e., an
> OO/procedural syntax-heavy (relatively) language for adventure games. Which
> I thought was beyond awesome. You can actually read all the rules for the
> stuff it understands, like north is opposite of south and lit objects in
> transparent containers shed light into the room.
Yes, I know. I've been following the IF community since some time later after
its rebirth in the late 80's, early 90's. I tried to teach myself Inform or
Tads but ultimately both the language barrier and a lack of ideas for games
hampered me from doing it. A shame, since both Inform and Tads are wonderful
DSLs I truly wished to engage myself into. Well, at least I can play the
games...
BTW, this is a delightful read, even if you plan on ever designing Inform 6
games:
http://www.inform-fiction.org/manual/DM4.pdf
about as iconic a manual as Perl's Camel Book.
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Neeum Zawan <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
> While we're on the topic of text adventures, I just played last year's
> IFComp winner:
>
> http://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=4glrrfh7wrp9zz7b
>
> Need a z-interpreter that can handle the .blorb file. On Linux I used
> Fizmo.
There's gargoyle too:
http://code.google.com/p/garglk/
> The puzzles are just above mediocre. It's a short game, and you can
> type HINT if you get impatient. The cool thing about it is that it
> really does capture the essence of your mood when you're just
> procrastinating.
I have so many great old games I've yet to finish that I've been ignoring most
from recent years... BTW, most game from IFComp are supposed to be short, the
rules of the competition demand that one should be able to beat it in just
about 2 hours.
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nemesis wrote:
> both the language barrier and a lack of ideas for games
Yeah. I was thinking how hard it would be to make a non-english game in
Inform7. I don't even know if you could rewrite the rules to handle
different pluralizings, articles, conjugations, etc. Let alone redoing all
the vocabulary.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> both the language barrier and a lack of ideas for games
>
> Yeah. I was thinking how hard it would be to make a non-english game in
> Inform7. I don't even know if you could rewrite the rules to handle
> different pluralizings, articles, conjugations, etc. Let alone redoing
> all the vocabulary.
There's actually a Spanish Grammar extension for I7. I thought of
translating it into Portuguese but then which audience would be left for
me? :P
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