>> Heh. I can assure you, *no* girls go for me. (But apparently gay guys do...)
> 
>   Maybe you should switch sides.

Like *that* thought hadn't crossed my mind. :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> Not sure how to do that, but... nice idea.
> 

Offer them drinks.

Personally, while being absolutist myself, I prefer the sober ones. At
nightclubs the bartender girls are always the most good-looking in my
eye when the lights come on and the evening is over.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

>> Not sure how to do that, but... nice idea.
> 
> Offer them drinks.

I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger and 
NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...

> Personally, while being absolutist myself, I prefer the sober ones. At
> nightclubs the bartender girls are always the most good-looking in my
> eye when the lights come on and the evening is over.

I too have noticed that the girl behind the bar is almost always the 
best looking girl in the place, by a large margin. (In fact, typically 
the *only* girl in the place, for that matter...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:11:03 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Not sure how to do that, but... nice idea.
>> 
>> Offer them drinks.
> 
> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger and
> NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...

If that's what life in Milton Keynes is really like, get out.  NOW.

That is not normal in the civilised world.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
  But what I
> actually saw... did not impress me greatly.

Well aren't you a pain.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Not sure how to do that, but... nice idea.
>>
>> Offer them drinks.
> 
> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger and 
> NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...

You see a couple of cute girls in a bar, you walk up to the group and 
say, "Hey, how's it going?  Can I buy you and your friends a drink?"

Sure, it's not the smoothest line ever invented... but often enough 
it'll get them to hang out with you, if at least until they finish their 
drinks.  It gives you a chance, at least.

There's a great line in "Deathproof," that goes something like "girls 
will drink any piss you throw at them, as long as a man is buying it!" :)

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> 
> http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=oktoberfest+girls
> 
> Tempted?
> 

There are some cute girls, but not all of them. This first one is kind
of cute:
http://www.jucagovi.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/oktoberfest-girls.jpg

This one (found behind some linked pages, not at the first search page
itself) seems cute:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wepe5ntAcJc/RyKE7rUTrII/AAAAAAAAABg/0dP9gGILveU/s1600-h/oktoberfest3.jpg

Also this one seems cute to me:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wepe5ntAcJc/SWfc67m6hEI/AAAAAAAAASw/DyJ_FvMqzfI/s400/o318.jpg

You know what? It's the smile. None of these three try to smile like the
girls at Miss Universum competition does. They don't try, they just
smile - it looks as real, natural joy sitting on theier faces. That's
the main thing that makes girl cute, at least if she's even near to
good-looking. At least that's what catches my eyes.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger and
> NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...

If a girl is alone at bar, she actually might want someone to talk to.
If she doesn't, she'll probably just say "go away" oslt. So, check the
next one.

> I too have noticed that the girl behind the bar is almost always the
> best looking girl in the place, by a large margin. (In fact, typically
> the *only* girl in the place, for that matter...)

At first there's usually a lot of good-looking and cute girls at the
bar/nightclub. But while the evening goes on and the customers get more
and more drunk, they get less and less attractive, at least to me.
Besides, half of them tend to smoke.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:4a985ac4$1@news.povray.org...
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:11:03 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>>>> Not sure how to do that, but... nice idea.
>>>
>>> Offer them drinks.
>>
>> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger and
>> NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...
>
> If that's what life in Milton Keynes is really like, get out.  NOW.
>
> That is not normal in the civilised world.

  Jim, you can't look at *anyone* here in town centres at night unless you 
are of the same ilk and they know you...

   It's a massive problem and I understand what Andrew is saying, however, 
if he found a nice country pub somewhere which he frequented regularly, then 
that's a different story...

       ~Steve~


>
> Jim

Post a reply to this message

Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
> There are some cute girls, but not all of them. This first one is kind
> of cute:
> http://www.jucagovi.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/oktoberfest-girls.jpg

> This one (found behind some linked pages, not at the first search page
> itself) seems cute:
>
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wepe5ntAcJc/RyKE7rUTrII/AAAAAAAAABg/0dP9gGILveU/s1600-h/oktoberfest3.jpg

> Also this one seems cute to me:
>
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wepe5ntAcJc/SWfc67m6hEI/AAAAAAAAASw/DyJ_FvMqzfI/s400/o318.jpg

  That sounds quite shallow. Don't you know that what matters is not the
external beauty, but the internal beauty (in other words, what's inside
the clothes)?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

"Slime" <fak### [at] emailaddress> wrote:
> > Everybody who's bothered to get to know me apparently really likes me. And
> > yet, girls ignore me.
> >
> > Marcus, on the other hand, is an arsehole. And girls really like him.
>
> He's confident and aggressive, whereas you're shy and self-deprecating.
>

Here's a dangerous sociological hypothesis:  are men who see themselves on the
wrong side of the above equation in their late teens more likely to marry
someone from a different culture/ race in their later twenties?  It's like, in
your sheltered little community, you're a loser. When you step out and grow up
a bit and meet a different kind of people, you meet folks who don't judge you
based on prior knowledge of your having been such a loser in kindergarten, and
somehow your mind associates nicer women with the new culture you stepped into,
and WHAM! suddenly you've got a lovely wife in your late twenties who has a very
different accent.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> 
>   That sounds quite shallow. Don't you know that what matters is not the
> external beauty, but the internal beauty (in other words, what's inside
> the clothes)?
> 

Yes, but that's hard to say from photos from the internet. And the
external beauty plays its part, too. After all that *is* one reason to
notice the girl at first place.

Actually, "what's inside the clothes" as definition of internal beauty
sounds... wrong. That sounds like the key would be the other parts of
external beauty but head. I've always understood the internal beauty as
something that's inside the head, ie. world of thoughts. I did write a
longer story about to the message you replied, but when I red it again
it was way too badly formed. The main message was that it's the most
important thing that thoughts are in sync.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:01:27 +0100, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

>  Jim, you can't look at *anyone* here in town centres at night unless you 
>are of the same ilk and they know you...
>
>   It's a massive problem and I understand what Andrew is saying, however, 
>if he found a nice country pub somewhere which he frequented regularly, then 
>that's a different story...

I lived in one of those new towns (Cumbernauld) when I was a bit younger than
Andrew is. They are a nightmare I was attacked several times. No harm done to
anyone, fortunately. 
The "small town mentality" is something you either join in or run away from. I
ran away ;)
But then Andrew has said several times that he would rather die of loneliness
and boredom than live in London.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > 
> >   That sounds quite shallow. Don't you know that what matters is not the
> > external beauty, but the internal beauty (in other words, what's inside
> > the clothes)?
> > 

> Yes, but that's hard to say from photos from the internet. And the
> external beauty plays its part, too. After all that *is* one reason to
> notice the girl at first place.

> Actually, "what's inside the clothes" as definition of internal beauty
> sounds... wrong. That sounds like the key would be the other parts of
> external beauty but head. I've always understood the internal beauty as
> something that's inside the head, ie. world of thoughts. I did write a
> longer story about to the message you replied, but when I red it again
> it was way too badly formed. The main message was that it's the most
> important thing that thoughts are in sync.

  You seem to have missed that it was a joke.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 29-8-2009 14:04, Eero Ahonen wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   That sounds quite shallow. Don't you know that what matters is not the
>> external beauty, but the internal beauty (in other words, what's inside
>> the clothes)?
>>
> 
> Yes, but that's hard to say from photos from the internet. And the
> external beauty plays its part, too. After all that *is* one reason to
> notice the girl at first place.

Actually the face and how somebody dresses are good indications of 
character because that will predict how others will react to that person 
and how they have reacted in the past.

> Actually, "what's inside the clothes" as definition of internal beauty
> sounds... wrong. 

seconded

> That sounds like the key would be the other parts of
> external beauty but head. I've always understood the internal beauty as
> something that's inside the head, ie. world of thoughts. I did write a
> longer story about to the message you replied, but when I red it again
> it was way too badly formed. The main message was that it's the most
> important thing that thoughts are in sync.
> 
> -Aero

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> 
>   You seem to have missed that it was a joke.
> 

Yes, I did. My humour-detector was malfunctioning.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

>>> Offer them drinks.
>>
>> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger 
>> and NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...
> 
> You see a couple of cute girls in a bar, you walk up to the group and 
> say, "Hey, how's it going?  Can I buy you and your friends a drink?"

For some reason, last time I tried this, the girls kept looking sideways 
at each other and laughing at me...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:01:27 +0100, St. wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4a985ac4$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:11:03 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>
>>>>> Not sure how to do that, but... nice idea.
>>>>
>>>> Offer them drinks.
>>>
>>> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger
>>> and NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...
>>
>> If that's what life in Milton Keynes is really like, get out.  NOW.
>>
>> That is not normal in the civilised world.
> 
>   Jim, you can't look at *anyone* here in town centres at night unless
>   you
> are of the same ilk and they know you...
> 
>    It's a massive problem and I understand what Andrew is saying,
>    however,
> if he found a nice country pub somewhere which he frequented regularly,
> then that's a different story...

Really?  Wow, I'd not observed that myself, but I've only got about a 
month's experience in the country. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> You see a couple of cute girls in a bar, you walk up to the group and 
>> say, "Hey, how's it going?  Can I buy you and your friends a drink?"
> 
> For some reason, last time I tried this, the girls kept looking sideways 
> at each other and laughing at me...
> 

How many times have you tried it?  It's normal to get shot down, so 
don't worry about that.  Keep trying :)

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

>>> You see a couple of cute girls in a bar, you walk up to the group and 
>>> say, "Hey, how's it going?  Can I buy you and your friends a drink?"
>>
>> For some reason, last time I tried this, the girls kept looking 
>> sideways at each other and laughing at me...
> 
> How many times have you tried it?  It's normal to get shot down, so 
> don't worry about that.  Keep trying :)

Just once was enough to leave me emotionally scarred.

Besides, that was the fourth or fifth trip to that particular bar, and 
it's the first time I saw any girls there. Obviously I'm going to the 
wrong places.

This seems to be the general theme in everything I try, whether I'm 
looking to meet a girl or just make a few friends. Everywhere I do, I 
have nothing in common with anybody. I'm always the odd one out.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Besides, that was the fourth or fifth trip to that particular bar, and 
> it's the first time I saw any girls there. Obviously I'm going to the 
> wrong places.

That's not enough of a sample to really get a feel for a place.  You 
need to go on different days, at different times (some places are wildly 
different depending if you go right after work, after dinner, later at 
night, or after midnight).

When you factor in the luck of the draw, it's easy to see how one might 
strike out.

Keep trying :)

> This seems to be the general theme in everything I try, whether I'm 
> looking to meet a girl or just make a few friends. Everywhere I do, I 
> have nothing in common with anybody. I'm always the odd one out.

If you only try a few times and then quit, then yeah, you're not going 
to accomplish anything.  Failure is only failure until you succeed. 
Keep going out, having fun, and don't worry about whether or not you'll 
find anyone.  Just have a good time, and take advantage of whatever 
opportunities present themselves :)

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:48:22 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>> How many times have you tried it?  It's normal to get shot down, so
>> don't worry about that.  Keep trying
> 
> Just once was enough to leave me emotionally scarred.

The ones that shoot you down aren't worth the effort.  A sample size of 
"1" is not sufficient, as Chambers said.  If they turn you down, it's 
their loss, not yours.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> Besides, that was the fourth or fifth trip to that particular bar, and 
>> it's the first time I saw any girls there. Obviously I'm going to the 
>> wrong places.
> 
> That's not enough of a sample to really get a feel for a place.  You 
> need to go on different days, at different times (some places are wildly 
> different depending if you go right after work, after dinner, later at 
> night, or after midnight).

Why would I even be *awake* after midnight?!

Anyway, if you meet people at a bar, you're going to meet people who 
like going out to bars. Given that I don't, this is probably not a good 
idea.

> Keep trying :)

I'd rather do something that has some possibility of success.

>> This seems to be the general theme in everything I try, whether I'm 
>> looking to meet a girl or just make a few friends. Everywhere I do, I 
>> have nothing in common with anybody. I'm always the odd one out.
> 
> If you only try a few times and then quit, then yeah, you're not going 
> to accomplish anything.  Failure is only failure until you succeed.

Any idea how long the alchemists spent trying to turn lead into gold?

Do you think they should have kept trying longer?

> Keep 
> going out, having fun, and don't worry about whether or not you'll find 
> anyone.  Just have a good time, and take advantage of whatever 
> opportunities present themselves :)

That's just it. Sitting alone in a room full of people staring at me 
like I'm a bug-eyed monster is *not fun*. There has to be a better way...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> Just once was enough to leave me emotionally scarred.
> 
> The ones that shoot you down aren't worth the effort.  A sample size of 
> "1" is not sufficient, as Chambers said.  If they turn you down, it's 
> their loss, not yours.

Oh, sure, those two were arseholes. I don't care what they think of me.

It did, however, leave me feeling horrid for the rest of that month...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:55:14 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Just once was enough to leave me emotionally scarred.
>> 
>> The ones that shoot you down aren't worth the effort.  A sample size of
>> "1" is not sufficient, as Chambers said.  If they turn you down, it's
>> their loss, not yours.
> 
> Oh, sure, those two were arseholes. I don't care what they think of me.
> 
> It did, however, leave me feeling horrid for the rest of that month...

Then, respectfully, you *did* care what they thought of you, and you need 
to understand why, because they aren't worth feeling like crap for for 
the rest of the month.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

gregjohn wrote:
> "Slime" <fak### [at] emailaddress> wrote:
> 
>>>Everybody who's bothered to get to know me apparently really likes me. And
>>>yet, girls ignore me.
>>>
>>>Marcus, on the other hand, is an arsehole. And girls really like him.
>>
>>He's confident and aggressive, whereas you're shy and self-deprecating.
>>
> 
> 
> Here's a dangerous sociological hypothesis:  are men who see themselves on the
> wrong side of the above equation in their late teens more likely to marry
> someone from a different culture/ race in their later twenties?  It's like, in
> your sheltered little community, you're a loser. When you step out and grow up
> a bit and meet a different kind of people, you meet folks who don't judge you
> based on prior knowledge of your having been such a loser in kindergarten, and
> somehow your mind associates nicer women with the new culture you stepped into,
> and WHAM! suddenly you've got a lovely wife in your late twenties who has a very
> different accent.
> 
> 
> 

You definitely have to go to the next village at least.  Yeah it's hard 
to get any traction with girls who knew you when you were showing off 
your Buzz Lightyear underpants.

Post a reply to this message

>>>> Just once was enough to leave me emotionally scarred.
>>> The ones that shoot you down aren't worth the effort.  A sample size of
>>> "1" is not sufficient, as Chambers said.  If they turn you down, it's
>>> their loss, not yours.
>> Oh, sure, those two were arseholes. I don't care what they think of me.
>>
>> It did, however, leave me feeling horrid for the rest of that month...
> 
> Then, respectfully, you *did* care what they thought of you, and you need 
> to understand why, because they aren't worth feeling like crap for for 
> the rest of the month.

I don't care what they thought of me. I *do* care that two people 
publically humilliated me...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:54:10 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>  If you only try a few times and then quit, then yeah, you're not going  
>> to accomplish anything.  Failure is only failure until you succeed.
>
> Any idea how long the alchemists spent trying to turn lead into gold?

They never stopped trying, and eventually they succeeded. Turning lead  
into gold has been technologically possible for decades; it is just not  
very economical.



-- 
FE

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Why would I even be *awake* after midnight?!

How late are bars open where you live?  Around here, they either close 
around 2 or they stay open all night.

They stay open that late, because that's when people go out for fun. 
One of my roommates never leaves the house until 11 when he goes out.

I actually prefer going out a little earlier.

> Anyway, if you meet people at a bar, you're going to meet people who 
> like going out to bars. Given that I don't, this is probably not a good 
> idea.

That's true.  So then the question just becomes finding something you 
enjoy where there are other people.

>> Keep trying :)
> 
> I'd rather do something that has some possibility of success.

?

Didn't you see me write that there is a possibility of success?

>> Keep going out, having fun, and don't worry about whether or not 
>> you'll find anyone.  Just have a good time, and take advantage of 
>> whatever opportunities present themselves :)
> 
> That's just it. Sitting alone in a room full of people staring at me 
> like I'm a bug-eyed monster is *not fun*. There has to be a better way...

Well, then try a club, or a dance hall, or something.  Find someplace 
with a pool table, and at least you won't just be sitting there.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Then, respectfully, you *did* care what they thought of you, and you 
>> need to understand why, because they aren't worth feeling like crap 
>> for for the rest of the month.
> 
> I don't care what they thought of me. I *do* care that two people 
> publically humilliated me...

What, exactly, did they do?

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I don't care what they thought of me. I *do* care that two people 
> publically humilliated me...

You can only be humiliated by yourself, not others.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:4a998607@news.povray.org...

> This seems to be the general theme in everything I try, whether I'm
> looking to meet a girl or just make a few friends. Everywhere I do, I
> have nothing in common with anybody. I'm always the odd one out.

Being self centered like that won't help. Once you realize universe does not
revolve around you and that other people may have qualities worth learning
about, it will be a lot easier. If you find it hard to take a genuine
interest in others, you'll just have to learn to fake it.

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:08:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> I don't care what they thought of me. I *do* care that two people
> publically humilliated me...

Why do you care what the other people in the pub thought?  Their opinions 
matter as much as the two who put you down.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> You can only be humiliated by yourself, not others.

Pardon my French, but that's rather BS.  Same for the old saw about 
sticks and stones.  Our emotions are affected by external stimuli.  In 
fact, pretty much entirely.  Even if it's an internalised reaction to 
something, the origin is external.  Variances in brain chemistry only 
serve to augment things (even if vastly), not spontaneously generate 
from whole cloth.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:4a99576e$1@news.povray.org...

> Really?  Wow, I'd not observed that myself, but I've only got about a
> month's experience in the country. :-)

     When were you here? It's really only over the last 5 years that I've 
noticed how much more aggressive people have become. Of course that 
aggression has always been there, but now there are crowds and crowds of it 
instead of just a drunken punch up between two bully boys.

      And of course, I can't say that for every town as I haven't been to 
every town, I'm sure some are ok... I think.

        ~Steve~


>
> Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> Anyway, if you meet people at a bar, you're going to meet people who 
>> like going out to bars. Given that I don't, this is probably not a 
>> good idea.
> 
> That's true.  So then the question just becomes finding something you 
> enjoy where there are other people.

Except that all the things I enjoy doing are solitary activities. (With 
the exception of snogging. You really need a partner for that...)

>>> Keep going out, having fun, and don't worry about whether or not 
>>> you'll find anyone.  Just have a good time, and take advantage of 
>>> whatever opportunities present themselves :)
>>
>> That's just it. Sitting alone in a room full of people staring at me 
>> like I'm a bug-eyed monster is *not fun*. There has to be a better way...
> 
> Well, then try a club, or a dance hall, or something.  Find someplace 
> with a pool table, and at least you won't just be sitting there.

Well, I've tried all the things they recommand. Pubs and clubs aren't 
much fun, but I tried anyway. I tried taking evening classes; that 
didn't work. I used to ski regularly; everybody's too busy to chat 
though. I started taking dance lessons. It's quite fun, but I'm not 
really meeting people very much. Not sure what the hell to try next.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> This seems to be the general theme in everything I try, whether I'm
>> looking to meet a girl or just make a few friends. Everywhere I do, I
>> have nothing in common with anybody. I'm always the odd one out.
> 
> Being self centered like that won't help. Once you realize universe does not
> revolve around you and that other people may have qualities worth learning
> about, it will be a lot easier. If you find it hard to take a genuine
> interest in others, you'll just have to learn to fake it.

It just seems everywhere I go, everybody else falls into a completely 
different age group to me.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Except that all the things I enjoy doing are solitary activities. (With 
> the exception of snogging. You really need a partner for that...)

  "Snogging: characteristic of spoken or written communication that seeks
to imitate informal speech"

  Well, I suppose it's not very rewarding if there's nobody to hear you... ;)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> This seems to be the general theme in everything I try, whether I'm
>>> looking to meet a girl or just make a few friends. Everywhere I do, I
>>> have nothing in common with anybody. I'm always the odd one out.
>>
>>
>> Being self centered like that won't help. Once you realize universe 
>> does not
>> revolve around you and that other people may have qualities worth 
>> learning
>> about, it will be a lot easier. If you find it hard to take a genuine
>> interest in others, you'll just have to learn to fake it.
> 
> 
> It just seems everywhere I go, everybody else falls into a completely 
> different age group to me.
> 
So maybe they know someone who is.  But if you treat them like you treat 
us and spend all day pissing and moaning then they wouldn't want to 
introduce you, and if you don't interact at all, same thing.

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Tim Cook wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> You can only be humiliated by yourself, not others.
> 
> Pardon my French, but that's rather BS. 

I suppose if you haven't learned not to be humiliated.

> Our emotions are affected by external stimuli.  In 
> fact, pretty much entirely.  Even if it's an internalised reaction to 
> something, the origin is external. 

Humiliation, as an emotion, is internal. The external stimulus does not 
necessarily make it occur.

It's no harder to avoid being humiliated by clowns making fun of you than it 
is to not be frightened by horror movies.  You merely need to recognise and 
internalize that the opinions of strangers who you don't know and will never 
see again are irrelevant to you.

Similarly, you can be embarrassed you made a mistake, or you can accept that 
you sometimes make mistakes and say "Oops, I made a mistake" and move on 
with your life.

> Variances in brain chemistry only 
> serve to augment things (even if vastly), not spontaneously generate 
> from whole cloth.

I haven't any idea what that has to do with the topic.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:57:55 +0100, St. wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4a99576e$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> Really?  Wow, I'd not observed that myself, but I've only got about a
>> month's experience in the country. :-)
> 
>      When were you here? It's really only over the last 5 years that
>      I've
> noticed how much more aggressive people have become. Of course that
> aggression has always been there, but now there are crowds and crowds of
> it instead of just a drunken punch up between two bully boys.
> 
>       And of course, I can't say that for every town as I haven't been
>       to
> every town, I'm sure some are ok... I think.

First time was in 2002.  The more recent trip would've been probably 4-5 
years ago.

Jim

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Darren New wrote:
> Tim Cook wrote:
>> Darren New wrote:
>>> You can only be humiliated by yourself, not others.
>>
>> Pardon my French, but that's rather BS. 
> 
> I suppose if you haven't learned not to be humiliated.
> 
>> Our emotions are affected by external stimuli.  In fact, pretty much 
>> entirely.  Even if it's an internalised reaction to something, the 
>> origin is external. 
> 
> Humiliation, as an emotion, is internal. The external stimulus does not 
> necessarily make it occur.

But the external stimulus is necessary for it to occur.  (Semantics, what?)

> It's no harder to avoid being humiliated by clowns making fun of you 
> than it is to not be frightened by horror movies.  You merely need to 
> recognise and internalize that the opinions of strangers who you don't 
> know and will never see again are irrelevant to you.
> 
> Similarly, you can be embarrassed you made a mistake, or you can accept 
> that you sometimes make mistakes and say "Oops, I made a mistake" and 
> move on with your life.

This is nihilism, to some degree.  While it is perfectly understandable 
on an intellectual level, even if they're suppressed, ignored, or 
rationalised away, emotions do rear their ugly heads from time to time.

>> Variances in brain chemistry only serve to augment things (even if 
>> vastly), not spontaneously generate from whole cloth.
> I haven't any idea what that has to do with the topic.

The popular supposition goes that people with depression, psychoses, et 
cetera, are that way *because* of having different brain chemistry, 
hence Prozac, other antidepressants, and antipsychotics.  In a way, 'the 
chemicals *are* the emotions', or at least to the extent that they can 
be altered with other chemicals.  To which I disagree--the chemicals 
facilitate augmentation of emotions, but are not in themselves the cause 
thereof.  Re: the topic, this is to say that even the stimulus of brain 
chemistry is an 'external' factor.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

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Tim Cook wrote:
> But the external stimulus is necessary for it to occur.  (Semantics, what?)

Does it? One can feel guilty without external stimulus, I'm sure. Certainly 
one can be trained to feel guilty without specific per-occurrence 
corroboration.

> This is nihilism, to some degree.  While it is perfectly understandable 
> on an intellectual level, even if they're suppressed, ignored, or 
> rationalised away, emotions do rear their ugly heads from time to time.

Occasionally, sure. But certainly you can eliminate the emotions the 
criticisms are intended to elicit well enough that your reaction is not "I 
got embarrassed once, so I'll never try again."  Especially if you're 
expecting rejection and just hoping for the best.

>>> Variances in brain chemistry only serve to augment things (even if 
>>> vastly), not spontaneously generate from whole cloth.
>> I haven't any idea what that has to do with the topic.
> 
> The popular supposition goes that people with depression, psychoses, et 
> cetera, are that way *because* of having different brain chemistry, 

Sure.

> hence Prozac, other antidepressants, and antipsychotics.  In a way, 'the 
> chemicals *are* the emotions', or at least to the extent that they can 
> be altered with other chemicals.  To which I disagree--the chemicals 
> facilitate augmentation of emotions, but are not in themselves the cause 
> thereof.  

I'm sure there's both chemicals that facilitate augmentation of emotions and 
chemicals that cause the emotions themselves. And I'm sure many of the 
prescribed drugs are completely unnecessary. :-)  I.e., I'm sure there are 
many people whose depression has a chemical cause, and many people who are 
prescribed anti-depressants merely because they're having a crappy life.

> Re: the topic, this is to say that even the stimulus of brain 
> chemistry is an 'external' factor.

Oh, alright.  I'm not sure I'd count the levels of neurotransmitters in my 
brain as "external" to my state of mind, but OK.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

Post a reply to this message

> At any rate, my point is that I live in a large urban area. It's not 
> exactly "too small a town".

Are you taking advantage of it?

My advice, since this has worked fairly well for myself: Try to make friends 
with some other single men your age who will push you to go places you 
wouldn't normally go. If you already have friends like that (say, at work), 
express interest in going out with them. Of course, you have to be willing 
to do so if they invite you. If you're not willing (too shy), then you have 
to remind yourself that it's a necessary step to improving the part of your 
life that makes you unhappy.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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Darren New wrote:
> Does it? One can feel guilty without external stimulus, I'm sure. 
> Certainly one can be trained to feel guilty without specific 
> per-occurrence corroboration.

I imagine that must be terribly confusing when you have that and stop to 
actually think about it.  Enough to incite a person to take an action to 
justify the guilty feeling.

>> Re: the topic, this is to say that even the stimulus of brain 
>> chemistry is an 'external' factor.
> Oh, alright.  I'm not sure I'd count the levels of neurotransmitters in 
> my brain as "external" to my state of mind, but OK.

That's why I put it in quotes.  ;)

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>> Offer them drinks.
>>>
>>> I still don't get the part where I'm talking to a complete stranger
>>> and NOT getting the crap kicked out of me...
>>
>> You see a couple of cute girls in a bar, you walk up to the group and
>> say, "Hey, how's it going?  Can I buy you and your friends a drink?"
> 
> For some reason, last time I tried this, the girls kept looking sideways
> at each other and laughing at me...
> 

On this side of the pond, two women walking into a bar together are not
always looking for a guy to chat one of them up. I can offer two
reasons, neither of which have anything to do with the guy:

They go to a bar to drink without a GUY picking them up.
They go to a bar to drink and dance without picking up anyone.

In either case, in their own minds it was obvious that they didn't want
a guy to talk to and so it was giggle-worthy. Conceited of them, probably.

If you want to chat with someone at a bar that is frequented by women
(as in more than one), find the one who is driving the rest home after
everyone else gets wasted. If a group wanders in, pick out the
designated driver and just talk. Try a joke at a drunken friend of your
owns expense, just so you don't accidentally insult her best friend.

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>     When were you here? It's really only over the last 5 years that I've 
> noticed how much more aggressive people have become. Of course that 
> aggression has always been there, but now there are crowds and crowds of 
> it instead of just a drunken punch up between two bully boys.

It seemed pretty bad when I lived in Oxford from about 2003-2006.  I was 
walking along with my gf and there was another couple standing at a bus stop 
having an argument.  As we walked past the guy started shouting abuse at us 
and telling us to mind our own business etc while his gf was trying to calm 
him down.  It's scary, I don't know what half of these people are on.  Also 
it was pretty much accepted that if you were walking around between 11 and 
midnight you'd see at least one group having a fight or acting agressively.

>      And of course, I can't say that for every town as I haven't been to 
> every town, I'm sure some are ok... I think.

My home town of Southampton is the same in the centre.  When I'm there I 
just stick to local pubs and avoid the really central areas (after all, why 
would you want to go there?).

It's such a shame there are so many idiots who ruin it for the majority, I 
wish the police were tougher on them.

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> It just seems everywhere I go, everybody else falls into a completely 
> different age group to me.

Rule #1 : Never refuse friendship with someone because they are not a young 
single hot girl.  Single hot girls usually have more than one friend, you 
are more likely to meet hot girls by being friends with non-(hot girls). 
Plus it's less-weird and easier to be introduced to one than walking up to 
girls randomly.

Rule #2 : Act with your friends in a way that would make you attractive to 
girls.  Girls are not going to like you if your friends say to them "he's 
really boring, he just moans about work and his life the whole time".  If 
you are more positive then they will say "oh you should meet Andrew, he's a 
really good guy". Maybe :-)

You might try joining some activity group to make new friends, some of mine 
use this place in the UK:

http://www.spiceuk.com/home

Whilst none have found a hot girl as a girlfriend (AFAIK), they are always 
going out with people they met there, and they do things that they enjoy the 
whole time.  Seems like a perfect recipe for enjoying yourself and providing 
a good chance of meeting someone.

Forget about the specific task of finding a girlfriend, go about getting out 
more and meeting some people, then the girl will one day appear.

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Tim Cook wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Does it? One can feel guilty without external stimulus, I'm sure. 
>> Certainly one can be trained to feel guilty without specific 
>> per-occurrence corroboration.
> 
> I imagine that must be terribly confusing when you have that and stop to 
> actually think about it.

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  You can be taught to feel guilty for (say) eating 
the wrong kinds of food together, or for looking at a pretty girl, or 
something like that. The teacher doesn't have to be around to make you feel 
guilty every time you look at a pretty girl. It's not confusing to you; you 
just know it's wrong to look at pretty girls.

> Enough to incite a person to take an action to 
> justify the guilty feeling.

Yeah, like teaching the next generation the same crap.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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Slime wrote:
>> At any rate, my point is that I live in a large urban area. It's not 
>> exactly "too small a town".
> 
> Are you taking advantage of it?
> 
> My advice, since this has worked fairly well for myself: Try to make friends 
> with some other single men your age who will push you to go places you 
> wouldn't normally go. If you already have friends like that (say, at work), 
> express interest in going out with them. Of course, you have to be willing 
> to do so if they invite you. If you're not willing (too shy), then you have 
> to remind yourself that it's a necessary step to improving the part of your 
> life that makes you unhappy.

But that's the fun thing, see? I don't know anybody who lives in my home 
town.

Well, except for the people I go dancing with. I keep trying to come up 
with a way to make use of that one, but I'm not getting very far. It 
seems that unlike me, most people have busy social lives with no room 
for a looser like me.

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