http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/

Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/

> Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.

  Sadly, I have hard time believing even such tangible evidence is going to
convince the conspiracy theorists. They will just say that the images are
faked (and will undoubtedly point out "flaws" in them), or the most idiot
ones of them will say that they are actually not depicting the landing sites
at all.

  I find it really sad that I have friends who are educated (one of them has
even a university degree), intelligent and rational, and still they believe
in the conspiracy theory (or at the very least consider it plausible).

  (Ok, after a lot of talking I have half-convinced the university guy.
He went from believing to being neutral, ie. he doesn't anymore state that
the thing was a hoax, but he still considers it plausible.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/
> 
>> Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.
> 
>   Sadly, I have hard time believing even such tangible evidence is going to
> convince the conspiracy theorists.

Sorry I left off the <sarcasm> tags. Of course it won't, any more than 
fossils convince creationists.

>   I find it really sad that I have friends who are educated (one of them has
> even a university degree), intelligent and rational, and still they believe
> in the conspiracy theory (or at the very least consider it plausible).

I want to know what he thought the first ten Apollo flights were all about. 
It might even make sense if it was a one-time flight that went to the moon 
on the first try, but why all the *other* launches, including a faked Apollo 
13 screw-up?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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On 07/17/09 13:58, Darren New wrote:
>
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/
>
> Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.

	Dude! Those images are so imprecise and blurred that they could be made 
by my pet cat! Even a newbie with POV-Ray in his hands could make them!

-- 
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I want to know what he thought the first ten Apollo flights were all about. 
> It might even make sense if it was a one-time flight that went to the moon 
> on the first try, but why all the *other* launches, including a faked Apollo 
> 13 screw-up?

  That's one thing I find funny about the conspiracy theories. When you
read websites dedicated to them, you get the impression that NASA went to
the moon only once, faking the whole thing, and that's it. They don't
explicitly say it, but most websites keep conveniently quiet the fact that
NASA went there six times. If one would not know better, one could easily
get the impression that it was just one flight, and that's it.

  Any reasons the conspiracy theorists give for faking the first moon mission
don't make too much sense for the other five. If NASA had, according to the
conspiracy theorists, already successfully faked the first mission and
accomplished whatever they wanted to accomplish, why risk faking it again?
Assuming it was all faked, each new mission would have greatly increased the
risk of someone discovering the hoax. So why take the risk? Doing it twice
would have not been wise, three times would have been very audacious...
Six times would have been pure madness. It would have been very easy to
give technical reasons why it would have been too dangerous to go again,
so there really wasn't any need for any further faked missions.

  Conspiracy theorists also conveniently keep quiet about one thing: That
the USSR was watching the NASA really, really closely. All this happened
at the height of the Cold War, when both the USA and the USSR were arming
themselves with enough nuclear weapons to destroy the entire planet ten
times over, and both were *really* suspicious of each other, especially
with things like sending rockets to orbit (which could pose a real security
threat). And of course they were in a race to the Moon: It was all about
international PR. The one who got there first would get all the credit and
glory. It was a really important thing to both.

  So you can be pretty certain that the USSR was watching all the missions
really, really carefully, and that they would have loved nothing more than
to expose a hoax, to ridicule the USA internationally. The USSR certainly
did have enough equipment to survey the flights, all the radio signals and
everything. I wouldn't be surprised if they had been tracking the spacecrafts
all the way to the Moon and back (because, after all, it was the Cold War
and it was a security threat if the USA wanted to put something nasty up
there to get a weapon superiority).

  Yet not a single claim of hoax from the part of USSR. They were ok with it.
They didn't like losing the race, but they admitted defeat.

  Many people think that a hoax by NASA is *plausible*. However, due to the
above reasons and many others, personally I think that a hoax would have been
absolutely and physically *impossible*. It was simply not possible to do it,
with all the eyes watching the whole thing (the USSR, the rest of the world,
and all the third-party US companies and NASA employees themselves).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Neeum Zawan <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
> On 07/17/09 13:58, Darren New wrote:
> >
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/
> >
> > Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.

>         Dude! Those images are so imprecise and blurred that they could be made 
> by my pet cat! Even a newbie with POV-Ray in his hands could make them!

  You can fake the images, but it's more difficult to fake the source of
the images. I bet there were quite many people involved in receiving and
processing those images. It would be quite hard to keep them all quiet
about a hoax.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 07/18/09 06:52, Warp wrote:
>>          Dude! Those images are so imprecise and blurred that they could be made
>> by my pet cat! Even a newbie with POV-Ray in his hands could make them!
>
>    You can fake the images, but it's more difficult to fake the source of
> the images. I bet there were quite many people involved in receiving and
> processing those images. It would be quite hard to keep them all quiet
> about a hoax.

	It's much easier than faking the moon landings. Ergo, they could do it.

-- 
Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they 
come at you rapidly.

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Warp wrote:
> The USSR certainly
> did have enough equipment to survey the flights, all the radio signals and
> everything.

Indeed, as a HAM operator, one could point the antenna at the moon and pick 
up the radio transmissions oneself.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I want to know what he thought the first ten Apollo flights were all about.
> It might even make sense if it was a one-time flight that went to the moon
> on the first try, but why all the *other* launches, including a faked Apollo
> 13 screw-up?

Just to make the fake all the more plausible-looking? And more heroic?

The conspiracy theorists will surely know the reason why.

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/
>
> > Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.
>
>   Sadly, I have hard time believing even such tangible evidence is going to
> convince the conspiracy theorists. They will just say that the images are
> faked (and will undoubtedly point out "flaws" in them), or the most idiot
> ones of them will say that they are actually not depicting the landing sites
> at all.

This one's my favorite comment:

-------------------------
2.   John Says:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:54 am
I’m sure this will shut up the hoax believers once and for all.

I mean, they’ve shown themselves to be a rational bunch who consider all the
available evidence, right?
-------------------------

Yeah, right. 'Nuff said I think :P

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> 
>     It's much easier than faking the moon landings. Ergo, they could do it.
> 

And isn't it a bit *too* convenient that this new image is released not 
too long after people started asking questions about the truth of the 
moon landings?

I'm curious, does anyone have a statistic as to what percentage of 
people (in the US, Europe, whatever) actually believe that the landings 
were faked?

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Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> I'm curious, does anyone have a statistic as to what percentage of 
> people (in the US, Europe, whatever) actually believe that the landings 
> were faked?

  Way too many. People are really gullible.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
>> I'm curious, does anyone have a statistic as to what percentage of 
>> people (in the US, Europe, whatever) actually believe that the landings 
>> were faked?
> 
>   Way too many. People are really gullible.

http://fatpita.net/images/image%20(1832).jpg

On the other hand, atheists look at the faithful who have beliefs strongly 
contrary to science and feel the same as most people feel looking at the 
"moon landing was faked" believers.   It's sort of the same sensation: "that 
doesn't make sense - why do you disregard all the evidence against your theory?"

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

Post a reply to this message

Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> And isn't it a bit *too* convenient that this new image is released not
> too long after people started asking questions about the truth of the
> moon landings?

"Not too long after..."? This Moon Hoax stuff has been around a while.

> I'm curious, does anyone have a statistic as to what percentage of
> people (in the US, Europe, whatever) actually believe that the landings
> were faked?

I guess ironically there's more in the US than in Europe who believe it was a
fake, or they covered up something, or what-have-you.

As a German, I've never come across anyone believing there was something fishy
about it - but from what I hear it seems like virtually all Americans know
*someone* who does.

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On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:22:50 EDT, "clipka" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

>
>As a German, I've never come across anyone believing there was something fishy
>about it - but from what I hear it seems like virtually all Americans know
>*someone* who does.
>

My mother in-law always said that she believed it was a hoax. But I'm sure she
said that just to wind me up.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 07/18/09 14:18, Kevin Wampler wrote:
> And isn't it a bit *too* convenient that this new image is released not
> too long after people started asking questions about the truth of the
> moon landings?

	Something I sent to someone the other day:

(Subject line: NASA releases tribute to Michael Jackson)

         You think it's a coincidence that he died so close to the
anniversary? Think again. The Jackson 5's first number 1 was released in
1969. His naming the dance move as the moonwalk was part of a
partnership between him and NASA to subliminally make the population
sympathetic to NASA, so that they could get more funding.

         There really can be no doubt.

         I hear MJ was trying blackmail NASA: He told them to get the
government off his back permanently, or he would expose their complete
manipulation of the entertainment industry. Given that the movie Moon
was about to be released to the public, they just couldn't take that
risk.


-- 
Q: What do you call a half-dozen Indians with Asian flu?
A: Six sick Sikhs (sic).

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On 07/18/09 14:49, Warp wrote:
> Kevin Wampler<wam### [at] uwashingtonedu>  wrote:
>> I'm curious, does anyone have a statistic as to what percentage of
>> people (in the US, Europe, whatever) actually believe that the landings
>> were faked?
>
>    Way too many. People are really gullible.

	Gullible if they want to be gullible (or is that redundant)? I think 
it's more of an anti-establishment attitude. And they want to appear 
more sophisticated by challenging accepted beliefs.


-- 
Q: What do you call a half-dozen Indians with Asian flu?
A: Six sick Sikhs (sic).

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Neeum Zawan <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
>         Gullible if they want to be gullible (or is that redundant)? I think 
> it's more of an anti-establishment attitude. And they want to appear 
> more sophisticated by challenging accepted beliefs.

  Ironically, it begins to look like if you *don't* believe in the hoax and
attest that everything was genuine, then you are having an anti-establishment
attitude. :P

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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D***it, Warp, don't you know that reason has no place in conspiracy 
theories?!?!?

;)

(Sadly, one of my coworkers {who is, for most other intents and 
purposes, quite intelligent} also believes the moon landings were a 
hoax.  I wonder if this will shut him up)

-- 
Chambers

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Warp wrote:
>   You can fake the images, but it's more difficult to fake the source of
> the images. I bet there were quite many people involved in receiving and
> processing those images. It would be quite hard to keep them all quiet
> about a hoax.

That's my main criticism of most conspiracy theories.  They assume a 
level of competency, skill, coordination and cooperation among such a 
large group of people that the mere idea is ludicrous.

Clearly, people who believe such things have never worked for a large 
company before.  If they had, they would understand just how difficult 
such a thing is.

-- 
Chambers

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Darren New wrote:
> Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.

Funny enough, Aldrin doesn't seem to think it was a conspiracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKDg4


-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

Post a reply to this message

Chambers <Ben### [at] gmailcom_no_underscores> wrote:
> (Sadly, one of my coworkers {who is, for most other intents and 
> purposes, quite intelligent} also believes the moon landings were a 
> hoax.  I wonder if this will shut him up)

  Of course not. The more vocally someone believes the hoax, the less likely
he is to change his mind (or at least admit it). Pride.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Chambers <Ben### [at] gmailcom_no_underscores> wrote:
> Clearly, people who believe such things have never worked for a large 
> company before.  If they had, they would understand just how difficult 
> such a thing is.

  Especially since the Moon landings were not conducted as an internal
project of NASA. There were quite many third-party contractors involved
in the whole project. For example the lunar lander was constructed by a
third-party contractor (Grumman Aerospace Corporation).

  Many conspiracy theorists claim that the lunar lander couldn't have
worked. I think that the engineers at Grumman who designed the lander would
have known if it couldn't work. The idea of bribing a third-party company
to keep quite about a non-working lunar lander is rather ludicrous.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> > Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.

> Funny enough, Aldrin doesn't seem to think it was a conspiracy.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKDg4

  I don't think punching someone in the face has ever felt as good as here. :P
(I knew about the incident, but I didn't know it was recorder on video.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Darren New wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Gee, looks like there's footprints on the moon after all.
> 
> Funny enough, Aldrin doesn't seem to think it was a conspiracy.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKDg4
> 
> 

That is AWESOME!

-- 
Chambers

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKDg4
>
>   I don't think punching someone in the face has ever felt as good as here. :P

Yeah!

I guess Buzz had been waiting for such an opportunity for years. At least I
probably would, if some zealous fool (or clever moneymaker) kept publicly
calling my life achievements a hoax.


BTW, I also like this one - looks like by now we may actually have the
technology they'd have needed to fake the whole smash :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0&feature=related

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clipka wrote:
> BTW, I also like this one - looks like by now we may actually have the
> technology they'd have needed to fake the whole smash :P

That's hella funny!

I was at a lecture by one of the two guys once, and he was talking about how 
he was coming down the ladder, and his foot slipped, so he moved around to 
the back side of the ladder so if he fell off it wouldn't show on world-wide 
TV.  It was funny to go back and watch again, and see him come half way down 
and move to the other side, and know it wasn't really planned that way.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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