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On my computer's keyboard, it says the following:
"WARNING: Some experts believe that the use of any keyboard may cause
serious injury. Consult statement on the back of this keyboard."
http://xkcd.com/237/
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Invisible wrote:
> http://xkcd.com/237/
Someone needs to invent a keyboard that doesn't collect crumbs...
--
~Mike
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Someone needs to invent a keyboard that doesn't collect crumbs...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=projection+keyboard
;-)
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=projection+keyboard
I have always wondered who ever thought the projection keyboard would be
a good idea. Even the stupidest person must see that it's impractical and
just doesn't work.
Why? Because it lacks the tactile feedback. Most people who are experienced
at typing don't look at the keyboard when they type.
If you tried to type on a flat surface with no tactile feedback whatsoever,
you would inevitably start to slowly drift until you are not hitting the
keys properly. In a physical keyboard this is avoided because you can feel
the keys and thus you automatically keep the focus on the keys. On a
projected keyboard this would be impossible, and it would be really
impractical to try to type without looking at the keyboard, and having
to look at the keyboard is very impractical to people who know how to
type without looking at it, because then they don't see the text.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> I have always wondered who ever thought the projection keyboard would be
> a good idea. Even the stupidest person must see that it's impractical and
> just doesn't work.
Well, it does *work*, just not very well. It works better than, say,
squishing a full QWERTY keyboard into a space two inches square. (You
now need a pen or other sharp implement to press the buttons.) But it's
still in the realm of "this is better than nothing", rather than "this
is actually a good idea"...
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Warp wrote:
> Why? Because it lacks the tactile feedback. Most people who are experienced
> at typing don't look at the keyboard when they type.
Ever since I saw Tron way back, I wanted a desk that had lots of little pins
that would make a keyboard when you put your fingers on it. Like one of
these things:
http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/02/c47fl.jpg
only for typing.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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On 6-7-2009 17:17, Invisible wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>
>> Someone needs to invent a keyboard that doesn't collect crumbs...
>
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=projection+keyboard
>
> ;-)
here are some more, including the projection and several other
breadcrumb resistant ones:
http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/06/29/10-unusual-computer-keyboards
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> here are some more, including the projection and several other
> breadcrumb resistant ones:
> http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/06/29/10-unusual-computer-keyboards
Yeah, the waterproof ones are quite practical in marine
situations. You can hide a desktop box in a dry cabinet
and just have the keyboard and monitor exposed.
And if it gets dirty you can just hose it off.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10225835-1.html
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Tim Attwood <tim### [at] anti-spamcomcastnet> wrote:
> Yeah, the waterproof ones are quite practical in marine
> situations. You can hide a desktop box in a dry cabinet
> and just have the keyboard and monitor exposed.
How do you make the monitor waterproof?
At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about LCDs.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about LCDs.
Given that I've seen digital SCUBA cameras with LCDs, I suspect they can run
for at least some time without a problem due to air circulation. Of course,
being under water, the problem of overheating might be less of a concern
than if you're being rained on in the tropics or something.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Warp wrote:
> How do you make the monitor waterproof?
>
> At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about LCDs.
Maybe it's watercooled? ;-)
Seriously though... The part of an LCD that gets hot is the flourescent
backlight. I'm no expert here, but I would imagine if you only run it
for a short time, it won't have time to heat up much. Those things don't
generate all that much heat. (Cathode ray guns require a heating
element, on the other hand...)
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>> At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about
>> LCDs.
Depends on how much heat the backlight generates and what temperature it
needs to work in. If the waterproof LCD will be on a ship, I imagine you
can bolt it to a huge piece of metal which will work as a pretty good
heatsink. So long as you design the LCD backlight to have a good thermal
contact with the waterproof case from the inside it should work fine.
> Seriously though... The part of an LCD that gets hot is the flourescent
> backlight. I'm no expert here, but I would imagine if you only run it for
> a short time, it won't have time to heat up much.
Umm yeh, I don't think that's going to be acceptable to anyone if you can
only run it for 15 minutes then have to wait an hour for it too cool down
before you can use it again.
> Those things don't generate all that much heat.
It's surprising how hot things get when they are in sealed boxes...
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>> Seriously though... The part of an LCD that gets hot is the
>> flourescent backlight. I'm no expert here, but I would imagine if you
>> only run it for a short time, it won't have time to heat up much.
>
> Umm yeh, I don't think that's going to be acceptable to anyone if you
> can only run it for 15 minutes then have to wait an hour for it too cool
> down before you can use it again.
Depends what it's for.
If, as when this thread started, it's for a computer, then no, that
probably won't be much good.
>> Those things don't generate all that much heat.
>
> It's surprising how hot things get when they are in sealed boxes...
True.
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Tim Attwood <tim### [at] anti-spamcomcastnet> wrote:
> > Yeah, the waterproof ones are quite practical in marine
> > situations. You can hide a desktop box in a dry cabinet
> > and just have the keyboard and monitor exposed.
>
> How do you make the monitor waterproof?
>
> At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about LCDs.
>
I’m going down memory lane here.
I’ve worked in environments where CRT monitors were put in “Explosion proof”
cabinets. Basically they were normal CRTs housed in a stainless steel or cast
iron cabinet with a toughened glass port, kept under positive pressure. No
problems with them running 24/7 for months.
Stephen
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Well, by marine I meant on a boat, I've
seen a couple types of monitor mount...
1. Flush console mount: the monitor is
flush to a surface, so only the front needs
to be water resistant, behind the monitor
is generally some empty space for various
wiring.
2. Wall mount: the monitor is attached by
bracket to a wall or ceiling, usually with
some sort of overhead rain protection, and
a closable cabinet, or a way to detach and
stow the monitor.
In both situations there's the option of just
putting the monitor behind some plexi-glass.
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Invisible wrote:
> Seriously though... The part of an LCD that gets hot is the flourescent
> backlight. I'm no expert here, but I would imagine if you only run it
> for a short time, it won't have time to heat up much. Those things don't
> generate all that much heat. (Cathode ray guns require a heating
> element, on the other hand...)
Using an LED backlight instead of fluorescent. Heat problem solved.
--
~Mike
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> Using an LED backlight instead of fluorescent. Heat problem solved.
Haha if only that were true. LEDs are very concentrated sources of heat,
this generates very high maximum temperatures compared to CCFLs. LEDs get
less efficient the hotter they get (opposite to CCFLs) ... say hello to
positive feedback! And anyway, currently LEDs aren't *that* much more
efficient than CCFLs at converting electricity to light, you're certainly
not going to half your power or anything like that.
The big drive to change from CCFL to LED is mainly because mercury is banned
(or will be banned soon) in most applications.
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scott wrote:
> The big drive to change from CCFL to LED is mainly because mercury is
> banned (or will be banned soon) in most applications.
Question: How do you make mercury switches without mercury?
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Invisible wrote:
> Question: How do you make mercury switches without mercury?
You put a small metal rod in a glass tube ... (The AC system in my
apartment has one of these mercury-free mercury switches) it isn't
nearly as precise as a real mercury switch, either.
--
~Mike
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Warp wrote:
>
> At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about LCDs.
>
I don't think so, I'd say they just require pretty intensive cooling.
You could use eg. A/C -style heat pumping to get the heat out of the
sealed box. or a liquid cooling systematically aimed for the heating
parts of the monitor. LCD is easier to cool, since it makes less heat.
Yes, it might cost significantly more than the monitor itself
(especially CRT on these days), but that doesn't equal impossible :-).
-Aero
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> Question: How do you make mercury switches without mercury?
Use an accelerometer instead.
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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> You could use eg. A/C -style heat pumping to get the heat out of the
> sealed box.
Given there are military laptop computers that work in the desert, or in the
swimming pool, or etc, I don't think that's the only answer. I don't know
how they do it, but it just looks like a robustified rubberized laptop
computer, but you can dunk it in the river as you wade across and use it on
the other side.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Darren New wrote:
> Eero Ahonen wrote:
>> You could use eg. A/C -style heat pumping to get the heat out of the
>> sealed box.
>
> Given there are military laptop computers that work in the desert, or in
> the swimming pool, or etc, I don't think that's the only answer. I don't
> know how they do it, but it just looks like a robustified rubberized
> laptop computer, but you can dunk it in the river as you wade across and
> use it on the other side.
>
They don't use CRT's (which I referred to, while talking about pumping
the heat) :-).
Those mil-spec laptops ain't the fast ones. They are the ones that
produce mininum possible amount of heat and use most of the surface to
get it out, ie. use the whole laptop as a massive heatsink. They also
weight ~1,7 metric tons each.
-Aero
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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> They don't use CRT's (which I referred to, while talking about pumping
> the heat) :-).
I know. I just had to follow up on *some* message. :-)
> Those mil-spec laptops ain't the fast ones. They are the ones that
> produce mininum possible amount of heat and use most of the surface to
> get it out, ie. use the whole laptop as a massive heatsink. They also
> weight ~1,7 metric tons each.
Yeah, well, when your other piece of equipment is a tank, it doesn't seem so
bad. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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> Those mil-spec laptops ain't the fast ones. They are the ones that
> produce mininum possible amount of heat and use most of the surface to
> get it out, ie. use the whole laptop as a massive heatsink.
Also they are going to contain much higher spec components that are tested
to much higher temperatures.
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scott wrote:
>> Those mil-spec laptops ain't the fast ones. They are the ones that
>> produce mininum possible amount of heat and use most of the surface to
>> get it out, ie. use the whole laptop as a massive heatsink.
>
> Also they are going to contain much higher spec components that are
> tested to much higher temperatures.
I'm also guessing you can't buy one of these for £300?
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Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> >
> > At least CRTs require air circulation. I actually don't know about LCDs.
> >
>
> I don't think so, I'd say they just require pretty intensive cooling.
Not really, in my experience they run very well hot. The only problem I ever
came across with a monitor in an enclosure was with one in a steel foundry that
had air vents for cooling. Over the years metal dust accumulated around the
coils and shorted them out.
Stephen
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Invisible wrote:
>
> I'm also guessing you can't buy one of these for £300?
You might, but that would be ooold one.
-Aero
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Invisible wrote:
> I'm also guessing you can't buy one of these for £300?
I'm guessing closer to $10,000, but since it's the military, $30,000.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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