scott wrote:
>> A normal IT guy working for an international company would presumably 
>> be earning slightly more than £14k/year.
> 
> And would presumably be meant to be working for almost 100% of the time, 
> and not moaning whenever he actually had to do some real IT work :-)

And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?

I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I 
complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about 
having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work 
computers. But I don't recall at any point complaining because I had to 
do something other than just surfing the net.

>> I would also *hope* that such a person wouldn't be considered utterly 
>> incompetent every single time any kind of minor technical glitch occurs.
> 
> Surely you've demonstrated how you can solve all the minor technical 
> glitches though?  Surely not everyone in your company is that dumb that 
> they all think you're totally incompetent?

Are you kidding?

If somebody decides to move a PC from one place to another and they drop 
it on their foot, that's *my* fault. I should make the PCs less heavy. 
And have rounded corners.

If it takes 20 minutes to download a file, that's *my* fault. I should 
make the Internet faster. (The minor detail that upgrading our Internet 
connection would cost tens of thousands of pounds PER YEAR and I don't 
write the cheques is lost on most people...)

Our passwords now have to meet complexity requirements. And that's *my* 
fault. (Even though it wasn't my idea, I didn't turn the setting on, and 
I couldn't turn it off even if I wanted to.)

If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my* 
fault. No matter how unreasonable that may be...

> Did you ever try to work pro-actively? I mean by suggesting things to 
> your boss that you think you should be doing (in order to improve the 
> company's IT), rather than just waiting to be told things to do?  It 
> might make them think more of you as a valued employee contributing to 
> the company rather than "just" an IT worker who fixes stuff when asks.

I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice 
what I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm talking 
about. And nobody consults me about anything either. They just *do* it, 
and then expect me to be able to work with it.

(Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors 
come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We 
don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with 
fiber-optics. But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day 
and says "so all the comms are live in that room now, right?")

>> (That's rhetorical of course. I wouldn't travel to a foreign country 
>> if you paid me.)
> 
> Well clearly you have travelled to a foreign country, when you actually 
> paid yourself to go, albeit for a holiday.  Are you really telling me 
> that if paid enough you still wouldn't travel abroad to work for a few 
> days?  How about to go to a conference?  OOC why not?

Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by 
myself, I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to speak 
to anybody or pay for anything. Plus the sheer awesomness of the prize 
at the other end kind of made up for the misery of travelling and the 
being in a hostile environment, etc.

Considering how badly this company treats me, they'd have to pay me A 
LOT to make me go through all that only to get walked on by a different 
set of people.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > The trick is, finding a job that you actually enjoy.
>
> Hmm, maybe I don't enjoy my job as much as I think I do, if I am always
> thinking it would be more fun to stay at home and do other stuff.

The keyword in your reply is *always*. It’s normal to sometimes want to skive
off but if you really mean always then maybe it is time to look for something
else. Having said that, the world economy and job markets are not at their best
ATM. Sometimes you have to grin and bear it.

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

> And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?
>
> I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I 
> complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about 
> having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work 
> computers.

All of those seem like completely normal things that an IT person should 
have to handle in the course of their day.  Software not working as it 
should, dealing with people who can't use computers, having to do "IT 
things" for people, all seems reasonable to me.

> If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my* fault. 
> No matter how unreasonable that may be...

Did you try explaining your thoughts to these people?

> I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice what 
> I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm talking about.

Why do you think that is?

> (Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors 
> come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We 
> don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with fiber-optics. 
> But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day and says "so all 
> the comms are live in that room now, right?")

And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And what 
did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?

> Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by myself, 
> I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to speak to anybody 
> or pay for anything.

On business trips you don't have to pay for anything, and when you get there 
either someone will pick you up or just simply tell a taxi driver the 
address of your hotel.  It's a lot easier and comfortable when you don't 
have to consider how to save money continuously while you are travelling.

The other cool thing is that most companies will allow you to take some 
holiday either before or after your trip to spend some leisure time wherever 
you are going, in some cases this longer stay even makes the plane ticket 
cheaper for them, so you can negotiate them to pay for your holiday 
accommodation too :-)

But then if you're not interested in the slightest of visiting foreign 
countries, then I guess that doesn't appeal to you at all.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?
>>
>> I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I 
>> complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about 
>> having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work 
>> computers.
> 
> All of those seem like completely normal things that an IT person should 
> have to handle in the course of their day.  Software not working as it 
> should, dealing with people who can't use computers, having to do "IT 
> things" for people, all seems reasonable to me.

Well, you know, I fix things all the time. I don't usually complain 
about them. (Already today, I've fixed 4 seperate problems, and not 
complained about any of them.) It just exarsperates me when an extremely 
expensive peice of software doesn't provide the features you'd expect it 
to. Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.

>> If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my* 
>> fault. No matter how unreasonable that may be...
> 
> Did you try explaining your thoughts to these people?

Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like 
you're just inventing excuses.

>> I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice 
>> what I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm 
>> talking about.
> 
> Why do you think that is?

I'm not really sure.

Historically, my boss always thought I was an amazingly smart guy, and 
the people across the pond always thought I was an idiot. There was a 
lot of friction over that. But hey, he's gone now. It seems the people 
at the top of IT are just so sure they know everything there is to know 
that anybody else can't possibly know anything. Or something like that. 
And our site manager is just a moron.

>> (Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors 
>> come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We 
>> don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with 
>> fiber-optics. But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day 
>> and says "so all the comms are live in that room now, right?")
> 
> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And 
> what did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?

He said "oh" and wandered off.

To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's become 
a store room anyway, so...

>> Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by 
>> myself, I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to 
>> speak to anybody or pay for anything.
> 
> On business trips you don't have to pay for anything, and when you get 
> there either someone will pick you up or just simply tell a taxi driver 
> the address of your hotel.  It's a lot easier and comfortable when you 
> don't have to consider how to save money continuously while you are 
> travelling.
> 
> The other cool thing is that most companies will allow you to take some 
> holiday either before or after your trip to spend some leisure time 
> wherever you are going, in some cases this longer stay even makes the 
> plane ticket cheaper for them, so you can negotiate them to pay for your 
> holiday accommodation too :-)
> 
> But then if you're not interested in the slightest of visiting foreign 
> countries, then I guess that doesn't appeal to you at all.

I've always disliked travelling and being in unfamiliar places. It's 
something I sometimes do when there's a very large reward on offer, but 
generally I try to avoid it if possible. Certainly the idea of being 
stranded all alone in a country where I can't even tell what people are 
saying to me is rather intimidating.

Post a reply to this message

> Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.

It's a good skill to have, being able to communicate with people who can't 
speak English that well.  Even though it just seems like common sense that 
you need to speak slower and clearer, and try not to use any unusual words 
or difficult sentence constructs, it's surprising how many people just don't 
get it and carry on talking completely normally when the other person 
obviously doesn't have a clue.

> Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like 
> you're just inventing excuses.

Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management 
several times, but they said they just don't have the money".

> And our site manager is just a moron.

You said that a lot of people there have PhDs? They can't all be completely 
stupid!

>> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And what 
>> did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
>
> He said "oh" and wandered off.

So you asked to meet with him later to discuss what to do with the useless 
equipment he just ordered to be installed and how to make sure it doesn't 
happen again?  Seems to me that's what the IT guy should be doing.

> To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's become a 
> store room anyway, so...

So what are you planning to do with the stuff in that room?  What's the plan 
IT guy?

> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I can't 
> even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.

"Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, even if they don't 
understand English.  It also helps to just learn a handful of common words 
from the place you are visiting, just things like thanks, please, hello, bye 
etc.  Also remember that most people are friendly are are happy to see a 
foreign person, there's no need to be intimidated.  I find it best to always 
print out the home page of the place you are staying in the local language, 
so that you can just show that to the taxi driver or someone at a train 
station etc.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>  Try
> getting up at 4am, sitting on a plane for 8 hours, then going to a
> customer meeting for 2 hours, then having dinner (in a time zone 6 hours
> behind where you started), then having a 3 hour conference call with
> non-English-speaking people, then going to bed 24 hours after you got
> up, then working 16 hours a day for a week.  Want to swap?
> 
> 

Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D

John
-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

Post a reply to this message

> Luxury!!

I knew someone was going to say that :-)  Remember, there's always someone 
worse off than you.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.
> 
> It's a good skill to have, being able to communicate with people who 
> can't speak English that well.  Even though it just seems like common 
> sense that you need to speak slower and clearer, and try not to use any 
> unusual words or difficult sentence constructs, it's surprising how many 
> people just don't get it and carry on talking completely normally when 
> the other person obviously doesn't have a clue.

Well when the line keeps cutting out and the person at the other end is 
being hostile towards me, it doesn't make for a fun day, let's put it 
that way.

I'm not an interpretter, I'm a computer technition.

>> Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like 
>> you're just inventing excuses.
> 
> Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management 
> several times, but they said they just don't have the money".

And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".

>> And our site manager is just a moron.
> 
> You said that a lot of people there have PhDs? They can't all be 
> completely stupid!

...did I?

Anyway, I'm sure the people in the lab aren't stupid. But our site 
manager... is. Nobody likes him. All he does is swagger around in that 
arrogant self-important way, and spend all day on Facebook. If you 
actually *ask* him something, he hasn't got a clue what you're talking 
about. But hey, he's only here because it'll look good on his CV.

>>> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And 
>>> what did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
>>
>> He said "oh" and wandered off.
> 
> So you asked to meet with him later to discuss what to do with the 
> useless equipment he just ordered to be installed and how to make sure 
> it doesn't happen again?  Seems to me that's what the IT guy should be 
> doing.

Not a case of "just" ordered; this was about a month after they 
installed it. (Not that he *told* me or anything. I just "found out" 
when I went into the server room one day and an extra patch panel had 
appeared. But hey, I'm only the IT guy...) Presumably he just sort of 
mumbled "uh... data... uh... connection... thingy?" and the salesman 
said "fiber link?" and he said "oh, yeah, that sounds computery, we'll 
have six of those". [Why six? WTF?]

>> To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's 
>> become a store room anyway, so...
> 
> So what are you planning to do with the stuff in that room?  What's the 
> plan IT guy?

The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders 
built the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on several 
occasions what's going on with this room - the general response being 
"uh, dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]

>> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I 
>> can't even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.
> 
> "Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, even if they 
> don't understand English.  It also helps to just learn a handful of 
> common words from the place you are visiting, just things like thanks, 
> please, hello, bye etc.  Also remember that most people are friendly are 
> are happy to see a foreign person, there's no need to be intimidated.  I 
> find it best to always print out the home page of the place you are 
> staying in the local language, so that you can just show that to the 
> taxi driver or someone at a train station etc.

In my experience, approximately nobody is ever happy to see me, for any 
reason.

It turns out most Swiss people speak English way better than I will ever 
speak French or German. But that doesn't make it much less disorienting 
or intimidating. [Face it, I went to *Liverpool* and couldn't understand 
people!]

But yeah, if I had to go somewhere by myself, your suggestions are the 
sort of thing I'd do.

[My mum actually bought me a little translater gizmo. She's most 
offended that I never take it with me. But... well, I asked it to say 
something in English, and *I* couldn't tell WTF it was saying. E.g., ask 
it to say "hotel" and it says "owa".]

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> Luxury!!
> 
> I knew someone was going to say that :-)  Remember, there's always 
> someone worse off than you.

What, no limbless 3rd-world people in this NG?

[No, no there isn't. And you know why? No computers...]

Post a reply to this message

> I'm not an interpretter, I'm a computer technition.

Sure, but if you need to do a little interpreting to help your main job then 
so be it.

> And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".

So you forward them the email you got from management in reply to your 
suggestion.  And you email everyone reminding them to log a IT call if they 
ever experience an unacceptable delay in the external network so that you 
can inform management how severe the problem is, etc - be proactive, let 
people see that you are working rather than just hiding away and waiting for 
them to come to you.

> All he does is swagger around in that arrogant self-important way, and 
> spend all day on Facebook.

Well you're the IT guy - block facebook, and when he complains tell him that 
the bandwidth is so limited on your low speed connection that you had to 
block non-work sites to allow people to do their jobs more efficiently.  Of 
course if you had a faster connection these rules could be relaxed a little 
:-)

> The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders built 
> the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on several 
> occasions what's going on with this room - the general response being "uh, 
> dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]

Surely the obvious response is then "well who *does* know then?"  As the IT 
guy it seems pretty reasonable that you need to know why this stuff is 
there.  Don't stop until you get to the top :-)

Post a reply to this message

Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

> Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D
>

When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
And I polished up the handle of the big front door

I polished up that handle so carefullee
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

That one?

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>> Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D
>>
> 
> When I was a lad I served a term
> As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
> I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
> And I polished up the handle of the big front door
> 
> I polished up that handle so carefullee
> That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
> 
> That one?

Finally, obscure quotations that I recognise...

Post a reply to this message

>> And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".
> 
> So you forward them the email you got from management in reply to your 
> suggestion.

If I had it in writing, sure...

> And you email everyone reminding them to log a IT call if 
> they ever experience an unacceptable delay in the external network so 
> that you can inform management how severe the problem is, etc.

Nobody will bother. They'll log a call, see that nothing happens 
instantly, and never bother again.

> be 
> proactive, let people see that you are working rather than just hiding 
> away and waiting for them to come to you.

I used to be quite proactive - trying to fix things before they broke, 
etc. But now so much of our infrastructure isn't actually under my 
control anyway, it seems every time something breaks all I can actually 
do is call America and ask them to fix it. Which just makes it look like 
I'm incapable of doing my job without help. (Well, maybe I wouldn't be 
if they'd tell me how these systems actually work, and give me access to 
look at them when things go wrong...)

>> All he does is swagger around in that arrogant self-important way, and 
>> spend all day on Facebook.
> 
> Well you're the IT guy - block facebook

I don't have the power to do that. Only the Network Administrator can.

>> The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders 
>> built the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on 
>> several occasions what's going on with this room - the general 
>> response being "uh, dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]
> 
> Surely the obvious response is then "well who *does* know then?"  As the 
> IT guy it seems pretty reasonable that you need to know why this stuff 
> is there.  Don't stop until you get to the top :-)

I think basically everybody's lost interest. They're talking about 
renting that space out to somebody else - but it'll be interesting to 
see what they do with the bundles of stuff stored in there. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

> I used to be quite proactive - trying to fix things before they broke, 
> etc. But now so much of our infrastructure isn't actually under my control 
> anyway, it seems every time something breaks all I can actually do is call 
> America and ask them to fix it. Which just makes it look like I'm 
> incapable of doing my job without help.

I'm in a similar situation, working for what seems like quite a small 
company, but actually is part of a huge company.  You get the worst of both 
worlds, in that you can't really do anything without telling 674 people 
about it and then getting 53 people to agree with it and sign it off, yet 
you still get the disadvantages of working for a small company in that admin 
and IT are useless at anything big because there's only 1 or 2 of them here 
and there's really no career opportunities because you're the only 
Engineer...

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:58:59 +0200, scott wrote:

>>> Want to swap?
>>
>> I was thinking something similar, but unlike you, I can't go into
>> details about what last week held for me.
> 
> Sometimes I think to myself about just giving up this stuff and going to
> work selling drinks on the beach somewhere hot :-)  Is it really worth
> having so much more responsibility and stress for your whole life just
> to get a bigger house or faster car or whatever?  Are you really going
> to be happier in the end?

Back before Y2K, a friend of mine and I made a (not really serious) pact 
to go into truck driving if the technological world ended because of Y2K.

I know for me that in general the job is very rewarding and fulfilling - 
but all jobs have their down days, and unless you're a company of one, 
you're going to have politics to deal with.

I have to say, though, selling drinks on the beach sounds better than 
truck driving. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:19:43 +0200, scott wrote:

>> The trick is, finding a job that you actually enjoy.
> 
> Hmm, maybe I don't enjoy my job as much as I think I do, if I am always
> thinking it would be more fun to stay at home and do other stuff.

Well, one upside, though, is that if your job isn't your hobby (it almost 
always has been for me), then you can walk away from it.  I worked in a 
factory when I was in college (building paint sprayers) and to this day I 
envy some of the people I worked with because at 3:30 when the shift 
ended, they could go home and not think about work.  Many of them did - 
there was outstanding pay and benefits for the full-time employees (many 
with 15-20 years on the job), so it wasn't uncommon for them to have 
cabins, boats, etc so they could enjoy their time away from the office.

Additional benefit:  You go on vacation, and when you come back there's 
no work that's piled up - the assembly line doesn't stop just because the 
guy who assembles the coil for the armature goes on vacation.  Someone 
else fills in until he gets back.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice 
>> what I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm 
>> talking about.
> 
> Why do you think that is?

Or, better, say "You're so funny sometimes."  Really, you get worked up 
because you're taking it seriously. It isn't *your* computer that's broken, 
it's the company's.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> sense that you need to speak slower and clearer, 

And pause clearly between words. One of the hardest things is figuring out 
where one word ends and the next word starts.

> Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management 
> several times, but they said they just don't have the money".

Then add "Why don't you also suggest it, so the management understands the 
extent of the problem?"

>> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I 
>> can't even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.
> 
> "Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, 

You're in the UK. The brits conquered 90% of the world. The only place I've 
ever been where nobody spoke English is China.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Nobody will bother. They'll log a call, see that nothing happens 
> instantly, and never bother again.

Then your job gets real easy, because you say "did you log it for me?" 
"No."  "Please log it, and I'll get to it in the order it was logged."

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

Post a reply to this message

On 30-6-2009 10:11, Invisible wrote:
>>>> Hmm. I don't want to know why you know that...
>>>
>>> Because my wife is chinese?
>>>
>> I think it would have been more fun to keep Andy in suspense for a few 
>> more days.
> 
> Yes, because I...don't...*want*...to know...? Hmm...

Well, at least we would have had the opportunity to remind you in a 
subtle way that it is sort of conventional to remember what people have 
told you. I am not so good at these things, my wife is better but she is 
a woman, so that does not really count. We all know that you are not 
only not good but actually terrible at it, so that is why I said that we 
knew why you didn't know. You should also know yourself by now good 
enough to know that it is not your strongest point.
If I may suggest a simple system: index cards. Unconventional in face to 
face communication, but here on the internet nobody will notice except 
for a sudden apparent increase in social skills.
If you want us to help, we could pool some random facts about ourselves 
that have been mentioned over the years in and quiz you.

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
> subtle way that it is sort of conventional to remember what people have 
> told you. 

I'm much less bothered by people who don't bother to remember things than 
people who say "I don't want to know why." :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Of course, you can obtain Acrobat Reader for free. (What good is an
> authoring tool without a ubiquitous platform to deploy for?) But the
> full Acrobat package, last time I looked, is about £400.
> 
> But what the hell do you actually *get* for your money?
> 
> Of course you get the ability to generate PDF files. But you know what?
> Any number of freeware tools can do this also.

Similarly, there are tons of freeware readers, not just Acrobat.

Acrobat Reader is like Internet Explorer: many people think it's the only
way, but it's actually the one with the most proprietary features and
security holes, and there are alternatives.

Post a reply to this message

> You're in the UK. The brits conquered 90% of the world. The only place 
> I've ever been where nobody spoke English is China.

Really? I was in China and some people spoke English :-)

A lot of places I've been you only have to travel a little bit outside of 
the cities and then hardly anyone speaks English.  I was just in Italy a few 
weeks back, Italian or German was fine, but English? No chance.

Post a reply to this message

> I have to say, though, selling drinks on the beach sounds better than
> truck driving. :-)

I was lying on the beach with my sister's boyfriend and watching these 
people trying to sell (very unsuccessfully) absurd things like cheap watches 
and sunglasses to people.  We started talking about it and decided that what 
would really sell would be cold drinks and snacks.  We figured out we'd only 
need to work for about an hour or two each day to make enough to survive. 
But then I don't know if you need to pay the local government something for 
a permit or whatever, or knowing Italy you probably have to pay the Mafia 
half your profits :-)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> You're in the UK. The brits conquered 90% of the world. The only place 
> I've ever been where nobody spoke English is China.

Or America. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

> Or, better, say "You're so funny sometimes."  Really, you get worked up 
> because you're taking it seriously. It isn't *your* computer that's 
> broken, it's the company's.

When somebody is standing over you demanding that the PC gets fixed 
*right now*, yet you have no clue what the problem is... not very 
amusing, no.

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Similarly, there are tons of freeware readers, not just Acrobat.
> 
> Acrobat Reader is like Internet Explorer: many people think it's the only
> way, but it's actually the one with the most proprietary features and
> security holes, and there are alternatives.

I've yet to see an alternative that produces half-decent graphical 
output. (E.g., Ghostscript can display PostScript and PDF, but its 
output is so awful that every time I need to view a PostScript file, I 
have Ghostscript convert it to PDF just so I can view it with Acrobat.)

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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > You're in the UK. The brits conquered 90% of the world. The only place
> > I've ever been where nobody spoke English is China.
>
> Really? I was in China and some people spoke English :-)
>
> A lot of places I've been you only have to travel a little bit outside of
> the cities and then hardly anyone speaks English.  I was just in Italy a few
> weeks back, Italian or German was fine, but English? No chance.

I’ve been in China too (Canton) and a few people spoke English but if you smile
and point you can make yourself understood. On the other hand I’ve been to
areas in London where they only speak Cantonese.
Lots of young people can understand English due to American films and computers.

Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> When I was a lad I served a term
> As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
> I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
> And I polished up the handle of the big front door
> 
> I polished up that handle so carefullee
> That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
> 
> That one?
> 
> Stephen
> 

Close, but no coconut.
"When I was a lad, we lived in a shoe box in middle of t'road"
"Luxury, when I were a lad &c &c ..."
Monty Python

John
-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

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Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
> > When I was a lad I served a term
> > As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
> > I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
> > And I polished up the handle of the big front door
> >
> > I polished up that handle so carefullee
> > That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
> >
> > That one?
> >
> > Stephen
> >
>
> Close, but no coconut.
> "When I was a lad, we lived in a shoe box in middle of t'road"
> "Luxury, when I were a lad &c &c ..."
> Monty Python
>

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
     I've got a little list--I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
     And who never would be missed--who never would be missed!
There's the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs—
All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs--
All children who quote Monty Python at every opportunity
All Peter Pan enthusiasts who spoil this fine community
All TAG members who reply to newbies with monosymbolic answers
And expect us all to read the manual like effen Pov-Ray advancers.
     They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed!

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scott wrote:
>> You're in the UK. The brits conquered 90% of the world. The only place 
>> I've ever been where nobody spoke English is China.
> 
> Really? I was in China and some people spoke English :-)

Well, I exagerated. In the middle of Beijing the people who dealt with 
tourists spoke some English. Outside of that, almost nobody, even in other 
large cities.

Maybe I just wound up going to less touristy areas than I usually do in 
foreign countries.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

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Invisible wrote:
>> Or, better, say "You're so funny sometimes."  Really, you get worked 
>> up because you're taking it seriously. It isn't *your* computer that's 
>> broken, it's the company's.
> 
> When somebody is standing over you demanding that the PC gets fixed 
> *right now*, yet you have no clue what the problem is... not very 
> amusing, no.

That's your problem right there.

Whose computer is broken? Who is worked up about it? Who is really not doing 
their job during the screaming?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:17:18 +0200, scott wrote:

>> I have to say, though, selling drinks on the beach sounds better than
>> truck driving. :-)
> 
> I was lying on the beach with my sister's boyfriend and watching these
> people trying to sell (very unsuccessfully) absurd things like cheap
> watches and sunglasses to people.  We started talking about it and
> decided that what would really sell would be cold drinks and snacks.  We
> figured out we'd only need to work for about an hour or two each day to
> make enough to survive. But then I don't know if you need to pay the
> local government something for a permit or whatever, or knowing Italy
> you probably have to pay the Mafia half your profits :-)

LOL, too true (probably/possibly on the Mafia bit).  The thing that would 
be a challenge for me is that I don't do well in direct sunlight. :-)

Jim

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