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http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/default.asp?sID=1245142614984
~Steve~
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St. wrote:
> http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/default.asp?sID=1245142614984
>
>
I'll bet that smarted a bit ;-)
John
--
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei
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"Doctor John" <joh### [at] home com> wrote in message
news:4a37d8d8$1@news.povray.org...
> I'll bet that smarted a bit ;-)
I'm sure it did, and I'm sure the cops need tasers in certain
circumstances, but I reckon that guy was too drunk to do any damage to
anyone. Besides, the cop without the taser had plenty of chances to get
those cuffs on him right at the start of the vid, even if he couldn't cuff
him with his hands behind his back - he wasn't going anywhere. In this case,
this was way over the top.
~Steve~
>
> John
> --
> "Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei
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Here's a better version with commentary...
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/default.asp?sID=1245142614984
~Steve~
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St. wrote:
> Here's a better version with commentary...
That's the same version.
Me? I figure if the cops are telling you to lie down so they can cuff you,
and you don't, what are your options:
1) Club him.
2) Taser him.
3) All pile on until you squash him into cooperation.
There's an awful lot of needless police brutality out there without saying
every use of a taser is inappropriate.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:4a37fa4b@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> Here's a better version with commentary...
>
> That's the same version.
No, not the same version at all. The first link was without a news
commentary, the second link has a news commentary and is longer.
>
> Me? I figure if the cops are telling you to lie down so they can cuff you,
> and you don't, what are your options:
>
> 1) Club him.
> 2) Taser him.
> 3) All pile on until you squash him into cooperation.
>
> There's an awful lot of needless police brutality out there without saying
> every use of a taser is inappropriate.
Number 3 was the old way and I guess it worked until the cutbacks.
~Steve~
>
> --
> Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
> Insanity is a small city on the western
> border of the State of Mind.
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St. wrote:
> Here's a better version with commentary...
>
> http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/default.asp?sID=1245142614984
>
>
> ~Steve~
>
>
>
Not hearing the commentary
But anyway, yeah, looked like clumsy police work to me.
So he got tasered twice? The flashlight looking thing is a taser?
We can't really see what led up to the first tasering but the second
seemed quite redundant, almost like he was being punished with the
second shot for writhing due to the first shot?
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St. wrote:
> No, not the same version at all. The first link was without a news
> commentary, the second link has a news commentary and is longer.
Um, well, unless both versions are at the same URL... Or unless the first
link is in some other thread I didn't see...
No, really. You probably posted the same URL twice by mistake.
> Number 3 was the old way and I guess it worked until the cutbacks.
Number 3 means waiting around for backup, and pulling other officers off
*their* patrols.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Jim Charter wrote:
> We can't really see what led up to the first tasering but the second
> seemed quite redundant, almost like he was being punished with the
> second shot for writhing due to the first shot?
He was shot the second time because the police wanted to handcuff him, told
him to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to fight and kick.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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> He was shot the second time because the police wanted to handcuff him,
> told him to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to fight and
> kick.
Yeah, but he was drunk out of his mind, and they've charged him with
assault for rolling around on the ground. He was much too drunk to
understand the orders he was being given.
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:4a384f80@news.povray.org...
> No, really. You probably posted the same URL twice by mistake.
Dang, I did, my bad. Here's the YT version: http://tinyurl.com/lqmslk
~Steve~
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Hey, why don't they cuff their legs anyway? I mean you really aren't going
anywhere if they could do that. The woman officer at the end of the vid (on
the left holding his feet) had plenty of chance to do that.
~Steve~
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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> Hey, why don't they cuff their legs anyway? I mean you really aren't going
> anywhere if they could do that. The woman officer at the end of the vid (on
> the left holding his feet) had plenty of chance to do that.
Perhaps the cuffs are only designed for wrists and don't easily fit around
ankles. Especially if he's a big guy.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> He was shot the second time because the police wanted to handcuff him, told
> him to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to fight and kick.
Unfortunately many police officers are taught *wrongly* that a taser is
non-lethal and harmless, and that it can be used more or less freely even
for the smallest sign of resistance. This regardless of the ample amount of
examples of people having been killed with a taser. In some cases the victim
wasn't even acting all that violently that it needed such a drastic measure,
as demonstrated by some actual video footage. It's just that the police
officers have been taught to freely use the tasers whenever they want.
It's the same thing with pepper spray. That is also taught as a non-lethal,
harmless substance. However, pepper spray can damage eyes and cause all kinds
of other damage. I don't know if anyone has died as a consequence, but I
wouldn't be surprised.
--
- Warp
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St. wrote:
> Dang, I did, my bad.
No problem. It looks pretty clear they're trying to cuff him (the guy
without the taser has cuffs in his hands) and it still takes 4 people to get
the cuffs on him, so it doesn't really seem excessive to me. He didn't look
"incapacitated" to me.
I take it the UK tends to be much gentler, given that they actually
criticize the police for punching the guy on the shoulder to try to get him
to let them cuff him. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Tim Attwood wrote:
> Yeah, but he was drunk out of his mind, and they've charged him with
> assault for rolling around on the ground. He was much too drunk to
> understand the orders he was being given.
So what would you do? Sit down with him and talk nice until he sobers up?
You're basically saying he's so drunk he's unable to control himself or
understand the police, and he's out in public? That sounds dangerous enough
to arrest him right there.
I mean, seriously, that would be great. It would be most excellent if the
cops gave drunk drivers a ride home instead of arresting them.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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>> Yeah, but he was drunk out of his mind, and they've charged him with
>> assault for rolling around on the ground. He was much too drunk to
>> understand the orders he was being given.
>
> So what would you do? Sit down with him and talk nice until he sobers up?
> You're basically saying he's so drunk he's unable to control himself or
> understand the police, and he's out in public? That sounds dangerous
> enough to arrest him right there.
>
> I mean, seriously, that would be great. It would be most excellent if the
> cops gave drunk drivers a ride home instead of arresting them.
The taser was developed as an alternative to the use of deadly force.
As such it should be used in situations where it would have been OK
to shoot the suspect. Being tasered multiple times results in an
increased chance of sudden death.
I'm not an expert in police methods, but it seems like dogpile and
pry his arms behind his back with nightsticks would have been
the right thing to do.
Amnesty International seems concerned about excess taser use...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/taser-abuse/page.do?id=1021202
And it seems to me that with all the concern about water-boarding
terrorists, tasering people until they do what you say counts as torture.
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Tim Attwood wrote:
> The taser was developed as an alternative to the use of deadly force.
Fair enough.
> I'm not an expert in police methods, but it seems like dogpile and
> pry his arms behind his back with nightsticks would have been
> the right thing to do.
Probably, if there were enough officers around. Dogpiles have hurt people
too. Someone is in a coma from being tackled and hitting his head, for
example. (Made the news because said someone wasn't actually the criminal
but someone the police mistook for the fleeing criminal when the victim
pointed at him or some such.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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