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Invisible wrote:
>
> The only plausible conclusion is that these are not the same product.
> There's no way in hell you can charge one group of people almost 90
> times the price that you charge another group of people unless the thing
> you're selling to them is actually different in some way. (And yet, the
> website insists that all three products each contain "all of
> Mathematica's features".)
Think of it this way: 'our software costs x% of your monthly income,
which is fair, right?'
(though for the student it'd be a negative number in reality, hyuk hyuk)
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> are being charged 847% more, and the professionals are being charged
> 8,847% more.
I don't see any problem in that kind of business model.
Many companies use even a more radical business model: Their software is
free for individuals for non-commercial use, while for companies using it
commercially it costs a considerable amount of money.
This business idea is actually clever: The software is usually so
expensive and so specific that individuals are not going to buy it anyways,
and if anything, they are going to pirate it. So rather than that, let them
just have it for free. This way they will get accustomed to the software,
and if they ever get a related job, or create their own related firm, then
there's a high probability for the firm to buy the software because the
employees have experience using it.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> I don't see any problem in that kind of business model.
>
> Many companies use even a more radical business model: Their software is
> free for individuals for non-commercial use, while for companies using it
> commercially it costs a considerable amount of money.
For example... Oracle.
it. And they give you every product that Oracle makes.
It's just that if you try to make money from using it, theoretically
Oracle sues you. Which would appear to be impossible, but hey...
> This business idea is actually clever: Let them
> just have it for free. This way they will get accustomed to the software,
> and if they ever get a related job, or create their own related firm, then
> there's a high probability for the firm to buy the software because the
> employees have experience using it.
Indeed.
So maybe it truly is the case that the only difference between
Mathematica for Students and Mathematics Professional is the terms of
perpetual license.)
Still, I'm reminded of that incident with BackupExec. We purchased an
send us an envelope with a piece of card inside it, and the card had a
wrong line of business. :-P
The thing that's really bugging me now... So, I can get Mathematica for,
very simple question: How the HELL do you use something like Mathematica
"commercially"?!?!!
It solves equations and draws graphs. I can't think of a single domain
of commercial endevour where such a thing would actually be useful. I
mean, who the hell does math as part of their day job?
About the closest thing I can think of is engineering; but they aren't
going to use Mathematica, they're going to use a dedicated CAD system to
do finite element simulations and so forth.
Mathematica is a wonderful toy, but I can't think of a single serious
"use" for it.
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Invisible wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>
>> I don't see any problem in that kind of business model.
>>
>> Many companies use even a more radical business model: Their
>> software is
>> free for individuals for non-commercial use, while for companies using it
>> commercially it costs a considerable amount of money.
>
> For example... Oracle.
>
> it. And they give you every product that Oracle makes.
>
> It's just that if you try to make money from using it, theoretically
> Oracle sues you. Which would appear to be impossible, but hey...
>
>> This business idea is actually clever: Let them
>> just have it for free. This way they will get accustomed to the software,
>> and if they ever get a related job, or create their own related firm,
>> then
>> there's a high probability for the firm to buy the software because the
>> employees have experience using it.
>
> Indeed.
>
> So maybe it truly is the case that the only difference between
> Mathematica for Students and Mathematics Professional is the terms of
> perpetual license.)
>
> Still, I'm reminded of that incident with BackupExec. We purchased an
> send us an envelope with a piece of card inside it, and the card had a
> wrong line of business. :-P
>
>
>
> The thing that's really bugging me now... So, I can get Mathematica for,
> very simple question: How the HELL do you use something like Mathematica
> "commercially"?!?!!
>
> It solves equations and draws graphs. I can't think of a single domain
> of commercial endevour where such a thing would actually be useful. I
> mean, who the hell does math as part of their day job?
Are you kidding me? In my former position, I was a programmer for
motion-control systems, much of which was very math heavy. Mathematica
could have been very useful for some of the things I worked on. I knew
one developer who would use it regularly to solve some of the problems
dealing with encoder counts and angular motion on 3 axes plus linear
motion on one or two axes.. It came in handy for figuring out how many
counts to send to the motors.
> About the closest thing I can think of is engineering; but they aren't
> going to use Mathematica, they're going to use a dedicated CAD system to
> do finite element simulations and so forth.
Yeah, our engineers use some fancy cad program to do a lot of what they
do, but some even fall back on pocket calculators and such...
> Mathematica is a wonderful toy, but I can't think of a single serious
> "use" for it.
Nonsense. It's a tool, just like a ruler, or a calculator.
--
~Mike
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>> The thing that's really bugging me now... So, I can get Mathematica
>> This a very simple question: How the HELL do you use something like
>> Mathematica "commercially"?!?!!
>>
>> It solves equations and draws graphs. I can't think of a single domain
>> of commercial endevour where such a thing would actually be useful. I
>> mean, who the hell does math as part of their day job?
>
> Are you kidding me? In my former position, I was a programmer for
> motion-control systems, much of which was very math heavy. Mathematica
> could have been very useful for some of the things I worked on. I knew
> one developer who would use it regularly to solve some of the problems
> dealing with encoder counts and angular motion on 3 axes plus linear
> motion on one or two axes.. It came in handy for figuring out how many
> counts to send to the motors.
Surely that's all just arithmetic though? Once you know the mathematical
formulas involved, it's a simple case of plugging the numbers in and
getting the answers out. It's not like you're trying to derive an
approximation to the Gamma function or anything...
>> About the closest thing I can think of is engineering; but they aren't
>> going to use Mathematica, they're going to use a dedicated CAD system
>> to do finite element simulations and so forth.
>
> Yeah, our engineers use some fancy cad program to do a lot of what they
> do, but some even fall back on pocket calculators and such...
That's just because sometimes a pocket calculator is the fastest way to
quickly test something. ;-)
>> Mathematica is a wonderful toy, but I can't think of a single serious
>> "use" for it.
>
> Nonsense. It's a tool, just like a ruler, or a calculator.
In other news... when's the last time anybody used a ruler in their day job?
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Invisible wrote:
> Clearly I'm in the wrong line of business. :-P
I say this every time I get involved in a payment processing company that
goes broke after the people using it to sell porn rake in $50K/month.
> very simple question: How the HELL do you use something like Mathematica
> "commercially"?!?!!
Predicting the stock market. Engineering. Theoretical physics.
> who the hell does math as part of their day job?
Why not write to the makers and ask what companies they've sold to near you?
Then apply for a job.
> About the closest thing I can think of is engineering; but they aren't
> going to use Mathematica, they're going to use a dedicated CAD system to
> do finite element simulations and so forth.
Someone has to figure out how those finite element simulations work.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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>> Clearly I'm in the wrong line of business. :-P
>
> I say this every time I get involved in a payment processing company
> that goes broke after the people using it to sell porn rake in $50K/month.
...OK...
>> very simple question: How the HELL do you use something like
>> Mathematica "commercially"?!?!!
>
> Predicting the stock market. Engineering. Theoretical physics.
Who the hell does theoretical physics "commercially"?
Engineering seems to involve CAD and material simulations far more than
any actual "mathematics" as such.
Predicting the stock market I'll give you - although that seems to be
where everybody wants Python, Smalltalk and other weird languages.
(Except Haskell.)
>> who the hell does math as part of their day job?
>
> Why not write to the makers and ask what companies they've sold to near
> you? Then apply for a job.
Heh. I'd apply to Wolfram themselves if they were in the UK. And, you
know, if it wasn't patently absurd for a nobody like me to be applying
to an internationally renound company.
>> About the closest thing I can think of is engineering; but they aren't
>> going to use Mathematica, they're going to use a dedicated CAD system
>> to do finite element simulations and so forth.
>
> Someone has to figure out how those finite element simulations work.
That's a solved problem. (Solved several decades ago too.) You don't
need Mathematica, you just need a good textbook.
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On 06/10/09 10:03, Invisible wrote:
> Who the hell does theoretical physics "commercially"?
National labs? Particle accelerator labs?
> Engineering seems to involve CAD and material simulations far more than
> any actual "mathematics" as such.
Most of it, yes. But places like IBM, Intel, etc have R&D divisions.
They don't just plug and chuck numbers.
> Predicting the stock market I'll give you - although that seems to be
> where everybody wants Python, Smalltalk and other weird languages.
> (Except Haskell.)
I know one person who interviewed for a financial firm. He was telling
me about it, and said something like:
"They asked if I knew any Haskell. I've never heard of it. Have you?"
> Heh. I'd apply to Wolfram themselves if they were in the UK. And, you
> know, if it wasn't patently absurd for a nobody like me to be applying
> to an internationally renound company.
What part of Oxfordshire is not in the UK?
What does internationally renowned have to do with it? They have an
office in the UK. They'll need people to provide support from within the
UK. They perhaps do consulting for their clients every time they get stuck.
Just because they're a big company doesn't mean that they don't have
all kinds of jobs - both big and small.
> That's a solved problem. (Solved several decades ago too.) You don't
> need Mathematica, you just need a good textbook.
You may want Mathematica to help set some of it up.
--
"Smoking helps you lose weight -- one lung at a time!"
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Invisible wrote:
> Who the hell does theoretical physics "commercially"?
Well, someone spent a whole s__tload of money building the LHC, and Cern has
been around for decades. Someone is doing theoretical physics for money.
> Engineering seems to involve CAD and material simulations far more than
> any actual "mathematics" as such.
Depends, really. If you're trying to come up with the best airplane wing,
there's a lot of math involved.
> Heh. I'd apply to Wolfram themselves if they were in the UK. And, you
> know, if it wasn't patently absurd for a nobody like me to be applying
> to an internationally renound company.
Never hurts to apply. And maybe they'll tell you who their customers are
enough to apply for a job nearby.
>> Someone has to figure out how those finite element simulations work.
>
> That's a solved problem. (Solved several decades ago too.) You don't
> need Mathematica, you just need a good textbook.
Someone has to figure out all the other stuff like that.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:03:59 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Heh. I'd apply to Wolfram themselves if they were in the UK. And, you
> know, if it wasn't patently absurd for a nobody like me to be applying
> to an internationally renound company.
Try it and stop running yourself down. They have an office in Oxford.
Jim
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