The beginning is pretty funny, and an easy read for people unfamiliar with 
the technology of the topic.

http://www.debiantutorials.org/a-drm-dissertation-off-topic-230

I'm glad someone is saying this stuff. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Post a reply to this message

Darren New escreveu:
> The beginning is pretty funny, and an easy read for people unfamiliar 
> with the technology of the topic.
> 
> http://www.debiantutorials.org/a-drm-dissertation-off-topic-230
> 
> I'm glad someone is saying this stuff. :-)

Pretty old.  I read it before.  I like the greetings. :)

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:
> Pretty old.  

So it is. Funny how relevant it still is after five years. :-)


-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Post a reply to this message

Darren New escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
>> Pretty old.  
> 
> So it is. Funny how relevant it still is after five years. :-)

Seems like Microsoft played deaf. :P

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:

> Seems like Microsoft played deaf. :P

Selective deafness is a common trait.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> http://www.debiantutorials.org/a-drm-dissertation-off-topic-230

"Congress needed a fix. Here's what they came up with: anyone who paid a 
music publisher two cents would have the right to make one piano roll of 
any song that publisher published. The publisher couldn't say no, and no 
one had to hire a lawyer at $200 an hour to argue about whether the 
payment should be two cents or a nickel."

Really? That's pretty interesting. Pitty it's not still the case today...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Really? That's pretty interesting. Pitty it's not still the case today...

It kind of is, for radios at least. There was a big thing going on where 
they wanted to charge web listeners more than broadcast radio stations.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Post a reply to this message

On 19-5-2009 19:10, Darren New wrote:
> The beginning is pretty funny, and an easy read for people unfamiliar 
> with the technology of the topic.
> 
> http://www.debiantutorials.org/a-drm-dissertation-off-topic-230
> 
> I'm glad someone is saying this stuff. :-)
> 
Thanks, I hadn't read it before. I think one of his points could be 
reworded as: 'The record companies are a bigger problem to the artist 
than the illegal copying.' Interesting though.

Yesterday I watched the Kate Bush christmas special that was broadcast 
on BBC4 a couple of days ago. I taped it because they aired it on 
2.30am, (which is normally not a problem, but when I went to bed at 
24.00 I was already awake for 34 hours, so another 3 1/2 was not an 
option). I did that on VHS so I am probably safe in that respect.

Anyway, I realized that at one point I had been considering buying her 
entire work in boxed CD form. What stopped me was that it was rather 
expensive and I already own some of her work on CD and most of the rest 
on vinyl. More importantly in the light of this essay: I realized that 
if most of what I paid would go to Kate I might still do it, even if I 
had paid for the copyrights before. Knowing that she probably gets 1 or 
2 pound per sold item and the rest is for the company is so unfair (IMO) 
that I won't buy. In general for me the reason not to rebuy anything on 
CD that I own on vinyl is how the record companies use the 'poor artist' 
as an excuse to make money. The artists suffer directly from that 
attitude, I know. I have been wondering if there is a more direct way to 
support artist without paying a multiple of it to the record companies.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Darren New wrote:

> > http://www.debiantutorials.org/a-drm-dissertation-off-topic-230

> "Congress needed a fix. Here's what they came up with: anyone who paid a 
> music publisher two cents would have the right to make one piano roll of 
> any song that publisher published. The publisher couldn't say no, and no 
> one had to hire a lawyer at $200 an hour to argue about whether the 
> payment should be two cents or a nickel."

> Really? That's pretty interesting. Pitty it's not still the case today...

  The music industry is really, really greedy.

  Take, for example, the immensely popular Guitar Hero series of games.
The games got rights for using the songs for a relatively small price.
However, the games were such a hit that the sales of the songs used in
them sky-rocketed. For example, one of the most popular songs of the
whole series, Through The Fire And Flames by Dragonforce, saw an incredible
boost in sales soon after the Guitar Hero game which contained it was
released. It would be rather safe to say that without the game this song
in question would probably have been rather unknown, but thanks to the game
it's one of the best-known songs in recent history, and it can be seen in
the sales.

  Basically the Guitar Hero games are free publicity for the featured songs.
In fact, it's not even free publicity: The music industry gets money for
having their songs advertised like this in the games, and they are getting
huge profits from it.

  So what does the music industry do? They want *more money* from the
game creators.

  You see, their logic is: Since the games sell so well, the game industry
should get a piece of the cake, so they want more money. The fact that the
games act as free publicity and are sky-rocketing sales is completely
incosecuential to them. They still want more, more, more money.

  Of course the game creators have the opposite view: They think (and IMO
rather rightly) that it's the game industry who should pey *them* to include
the songs in the games, because it's publicity. It's the product owner who
should pay the advertisement company, not the other way around.

  But of couse, why shouldn't the music industry want more money from
everywhere?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp escreveu:
>   Take, for example, the immensely popular Guitar Hero series of games.
> The games got rights for using the songs for a relatively small price.
> However, the games were such a hit that the sales of the songs used in
> them sky-rocketed. For example, one of the most popular songs of the
> whole series, Through The Fire And Flames by Dragonforce, saw an incredible
> boost in sales soon after the Guitar Hero game which contained it was
> released. It would be rather safe to say that without the game this song
> in question would probably have been rather unknown, but thanks to the game
> it's one of the best-known songs in recent history, and it can be seen in
> the sales.

I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt, 
Beethoven and company.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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nemesis wrote:

> I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt, 
> Beethoven and company.

If you can play *any* of those with just 5 keys, I'll be impressed. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Warp wrote:

>   The music industry is really, really greedy.

 From what I hear, the film industry is not much different...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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nemesis wrote:
> I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt, 
> Beethoven and company.

Bagpipe hero.
Symphonic orchestra hero (more suited for the wii, I suppose).
And, of course, pipe organ hero.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

Post a reply to this message

Tim Cook wrote:

> Bagpipe hero.

LOL! I didn't know you could play more than one tune...

> And, of course, pipe organ hero.

WIN!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
> Tim Cook wrote:
> 
>> Bagpipe hero.
> 
> LOL! I didn't know you could play more than one tune...

Hey, in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, you got to really play 
some tunes in an Ocarina to solve some puzzles.  You could even change 
the pitch by sliding with the analog stick. :)

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
> 
>> I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt, 
>> Beethoven and company.
> 
> If you can play *any* of those with just 5 keys, I'll be impressed. ;-)

You only need to engage the player into believing he's really a virtuoso. :)

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt, 
> Beethoven and company.

  You mean like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Piano

  It even had games for the NES where the piano was used as "controller".

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Warp wrote:

> >   The music industry is really, really greedy.

>  From what I hear, the film industry is not much different...

  At least the film industry has more reason for their actions. After all,
if you pour 100 million dollars into making one single movie, you have some
good motives to protect your rights.

  How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp escreveu:
> nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt, 
>> Beethoven and company.
> 
>   You mean like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Piano
> 
>   It even had games for the NES where the piano was used as "controller".

yeah, but with Guitar Hero's hype. ;)

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

Warp escreveu:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
> 
>>>   The music industry is really, really greedy.
> 
>>  From what I hear, the film industry is not much different...
> 
>   At least the film industry has more reason for their actions. After all,
> if you pour 100 million dollars into making one single movie, you have some
> good motives to protect your rights.
> 
>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

well, for one there's the drugs dealers fueling the musicians, there's 
the hookers for their enjoyment during touring, hundreds of towels, 
5-star rooms in top hotels, all the dancers and performers and light 
technicians to make a few notes and many noises feel like a symphony 
etc.  It surely costs a lot.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 21 May 2009 16:20:56 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
> 
>> >   The music industry is really, really greedy.
> 
>>  From what I hear, the film industry is not much different...
> 
>   At least the film industry has more reason for their actions. After
>   all,
> if you pour 100 million dollars into making one single movie, you have
> some good motives to protect your rights.
> 
>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician 
plays.

But the MPAA doesn't invest in the creation of movies - much like the 
RIAA doesn't invest in the creation of music.  They just represent the 
people who do (ostensibly, arguably neither represents all artists, 
though they'd like to think so and act like they do).

Jim

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
> The artists suffer directly from that 
> attitude, I know. I have been wondering if there is a more direct way to 
> support artist without paying a multiple of it to the record companies.

The only reason the record companies are there in the first place is 
because the distribution of the IP formerly involved copying into a 
physical format (hand-copied texts, piano rolls, vinyl, CDs).  They 
provided a service that was inherently necessary for the artist's goals 
to be realized, and charged a cut of the money for it.  Ditto for the 
store from which these physical copies were vended.

Distribution of IP now involves considerably less work than before.  A 
few mouse clicks and key presses, and it's done.  The record companies 
are less necessary than before, in a free market they must find another 
service to provide in order to survive.

A continuing theme throughout the lecture is how vested interests, when 
faced with a situation in which their current contribution was no longer 
wanted by the free market, sought to make the market less free.  Where 
they did not petition the legislatures to outlaw the new technology 
outright, they lobbied to require that a new service be packaged with 
the new technology, with the lobbyist's patron being granted a legal 
monopoly on providing that service.

He didn't make the point as directly as I would have liked, but it is 
pretty clear throughout that a free market, in spite of all the flaws 
that some claim to see in it, is the best means to reduce the costs and 
increase the availability and quality of consumer goods and services for 
the people in general.  Every economic system has, in comparison to 
others, winners and losers; but the free market, in the full scope of 
thing has the most winners and the fewest losers.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician 
> plays.

  Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 21 May 2009 17:03:12 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> 
>> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician
>> plays.
> 
>   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.

Think symphony orchestra.

But even if not, suppose the instruments a musician uses cost them a 
million dollars.  I don't think that offsets the argument that much, it's 
still a hell of an investment.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 21 May 2009 21:39:57 +0200, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> I'm eagerly waiting for Piano Hero -- with "songs" by Chopin, Liszt,  
>> Beethoven and company.
>
> Bagpipe hero.
> Symphonic orchestra hero (more suited for the wii, I suppose).
> And, of course, pipe organ hero.

http://basicinstructions.net/?p=461



-- 
FE

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 21 May 2009 17:03:12 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>>>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
>>> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician
>>> plays.
>>   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.
> 
> Think symphony orchestra.

That's still half a million dollars per instrument. :-)

Now, the music *hall*, perhaps, yes.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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On Thu, 21 May 2009 14:06:57 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 May 2009 17:03:12 -0400, Warp wrote:
>> 
>>> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>>>>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
>>>> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the
>>>> musician plays.
>>>   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.
>> 
>> Think symphony orchestra.
> 
> That's still half a million dollars per instrument. :-)

Certainly high-end professional instruments can run that much, of course 
we're talking something like Yo-Yo Ma's Stradavarius (or Pearlman's).

> Now, the music *hall*, perhaps, yes.

Well, that and/or the recording studio, equipment, etc.

My point to Warp was that it's not just a question of getting a bunch of 
guys together in their garage studio with a tape recorder or a computer 
to record their jam session.  Professional recording is big business.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>>>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> 
>> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician 
>> plays.
> 
>   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.

Instruments, kitting out a studio, staffing it with talented 
professionals, paying their wages while they edit the music down, mix 
it, work with the artist(s) to make it sound right. The guys who send 
the mixdown to the fab where the CDs get pressed. The graphic artists 
who design the cover. The PR people who promote the thing once it's on 
the shelves.

The actual CD might cost peanuts to press, but getting to the point 
where you have a professional-grade recording to make a CD out of isn't 
cheap. (Have you *seen* how much money they want for high-quality 
microphones?!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle wrote:

> Distribution of IP now involves considerably less work than before.  A 
> few mouse clicks and key presses, and it's done.  The record companies 
> are less necessary than before, in a free market they must find another 
> service to provide in order to survive.

Web hosting?

You *can* host a website from a laptop in your house, connected to the 
Internet via ADSL. I've done it. But it works *really* badly...

> A continuing theme throughout the lecture is how vested interests, when 
> faced with a situation in which their current contribution was no longer 
> wanted by the free market, sought to make the market less free.  Where 
> they did not petition the legislatures to outlaw the new technology 
> outright, they lobbied to require that a new service be packaged with 
> the new technology, with the lobbyist's patron being granted a legal 
> monopoly on providing that service.
> 
> He didn't make the point as directly as I would have liked, but it is 
> pretty clear throughout that a free market, in spite of all the flaws 
> that some claim to see in it, is the best means to reduce the costs and 
> increase the availability and quality of consumer goods and services for 
> the people in general.  Every economic system has, in comparison to 
> others, winners and losers; but the free market, in the full scope of 
> thing has the most winners and the fewest losers.

Yeah, pretty much.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 21 May 2009 23:06:20 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Web hosting?
> 
> You *can* host a website from a laptop in your house, connected to the
> Internet via ADSL. I've done it. But it works *really* badly...

I do it today on 3 Mbps ADSL, works OK for my uses.  Largely depends on 
the traffic you're expecting (and that you ultimately get).  Your site 
must've been *really* popular. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> Web hosting?
>>
>> You *can* host a website from a laptop in your house, connected to the
>> Internet via ADSL. I've done it. But it works *really* badly...
> 
> I do it today on 3 Mbps ADSL, works OK for my uses.  Largely depends on 
> the traffic you're expecting (and that you ultimately get).  Your site 
> must've been *really* popular. ;-)

More like... my site is only available when I remember to turn my laptop 
back on. (And when my mum doesn't turn it off because the whirring of 
the fan is annoying her. Or because she's whining about how much 
electricity it uses.)

Actually, 98% of my traffic consisted of HTTP GET requests for a URL 
that's about 64 KB long... so, I'm guessing it's trying to exploit some 
sort of buffer overrun vulnerability? (Which Apache presumably doesn't 
have.)

Post a reply to this message

Tim Cook wrote:
> Bagpipe hero.

I didn't know you could play tunes on the bagpipes; after 1745 it was
banned in the UK as a weapon of war :-)

John
-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

Post a reply to this message

Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
> Tim Cook wrote:
> > Bagpipe hero.
>
> I didn't know you could play tunes on the bagpipes; after 1745 it was
> banned in the UK as a weapon of war :-)
>
> John
> --
> "Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

English! What you are talking about is not bagpipes per se but the GHB (Great
Highland Bagpipe) or the Warpipes as they are also known.

Hoots Mon.

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:4a15b7a8@news.povray.org...
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > Warp wrote:

> > >   The music industry is really, really greedy.

> >  From what I hear, the film industry is not much different...

>   At least the film industry has more reason for their actions. After all,
> if you pour 100 million dollars into making one single movie, you have
some
> good motives to protect your rights.
>
>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies. If AutoCAD can
sell one CD for several thousand dollars, why cannot a music CD be sold for
$14.95 ?

I don't see what you are getting at. Are you saying musicians are overpaid
and actors are not?

Post a reply to this message

"somebody" <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
> news:4a15b7a8@news.povray.org...
> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> 
> As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies. If AutoCAD
> can
> sell one CD for several thousand dollars, why cannot a music CD be
> sold for
> $14.95 ?

Well, they can somehow afford to sell it at a third of the price in
other countries. Yes, the same CD. I was in Spain and I saw CDs at €30
that cost $30 here in Argentina.

http://google.com/search?q=30+ARS+in+EUR
http://google.com/search?q=30+EUR+in+ARS

> I don't see what you are getting at. Are you saying musicians are
> overpaid
> and actors are not?

Post a reply to this message

=?UTF-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s=20Alvarez?= <nic### [at] gmailnospaminvalid> wrote:
> "somebody" <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> > "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
> > news:4a15b7a8@news.povray.org...
> > >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> >
> > As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies. If AutoCAD
> > can
> > sell one CD for several thousand dollars, why cannot a music CD be
> > sold for
> > $14.95 ?
>
> Well, they can somehow afford to sell it at a third of the price in
> other countries. Yes, the same CD. I was in Spain and I saw CDs at €30
> that cost $30 here in Argentina.
>

In the UK I notice that USD seems to translate directly into GBP. :(

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Nicolás Alvarez" <nic### [at] gmailnospaminvalid> wrote in message
news:495610262264692575.427968nicolas.alvarez-gmail.nospam.invalid@news.povray.org...
> "somebody" <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> > "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
> > news:4a15b7a8@news.povray.org...
> > >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> >
> > As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies. If AutoCAD
> > can
> > sell one CD for several thousand dollars, why cannot a music CD be
> > sold for
> > $14.95 ?

> Well, they can somehow afford to sell it at a third of the price in
> other countries. Yes, the same CD. I was in Spain and I saw CDs at ?30
> that cost $30 here in Argentina.

And the average hourly wage in Spain may well be  ?30 when it's $30 in
Argentina. Gasoline may cost three times in UK than it does in US... etc...
etc. It's not just CDs. All consumer goods as well as salaries vary
considerably across borders. Just because a vendor can afford to sell a
product cheap in some country, or that an employer can afford to pay higher
wages in another doesn't mean that the same pricing would work everywhere
for everyone. Maybe one day, but global economy is far from being that
homogenized so far.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> (Which Apache presumably doesn't have.)

I got hammered at least twice a week for apache vulnerabilities when I was 
running a web site too. They're just less obvious, so you don't always see 
them in the logfile unless you write code that sends you email when 
something funky happens in the log file. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 May 2009 17:03:12 -0400, Warp wrote:

> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> > 
> >> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician
> >> plays.
> > 
> >   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.

> Think symphony orchestra.

  All music CDs are created by a symphony orchestra?

  Even if it was so, a symphony orchestra does *not* cost 100 million
dollars. Heck, even an entire opera house built from scratch is probably
not going to cost that much. (And even if it were, it's not like they
would have to build one opera house per CD.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >>>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> > 
> >> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician 
> >> plays.
> > 
> >   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.

> Instruments, kitting out a studio, staffing it with talented 
> professionals, paying their wages while they edit the music down, mix 
> it, work with the artist(s) to make it sound right. The guys who send 
> the mixdown to the fab where the CDs get pressed. The graphic artists 
> who design the cover. The PR people who promote the thing once it's on 
> the shelves.

  I'd say something along the lines of 100 *thousand* dollars. Not
100 *million* dollars.

  I'd say three orders of magnitude of difference is even generous.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

somebody <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

> As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies.

  I didn't ask "how much does it cost to create one CD?"

  I asked "how much does it cost to create one CD *of music*". There's
a big difference. Making the music costs money.

  However, my point is that it costs *nowhere* near the budget of a
blockbuster movie. Not even if you rent an entire opera house and an
entire philarmonic orchestra (which is, btw, what most movies do
*besides* everything else; the music CD doesn't need the "everything
else").

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>>>>>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
>>>> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the musician 
>>>> plays.
>>>   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.
> 
>> Instruments, kitting out a studio, staffing it with talented 
>> professionals, paying their wages while they edit the music down, mix 
>> it, work with the artist(s) to make it sound right. The guys who send 
>> the mixdown to the fab where the CDs get pressed. The graphic artists 
>> who design the cover. The PR people who promote the thing once it's on 
>> the shelves.
> 
>   I'd say something along the lines of 100 *thousand* dollars. Not
> 100 *million* dollars.
> 
>   I'd say three orders of magnitude of difference is even generous.

OK, I think I can agree with that.

It doesn't cost anywhere near as much money to make music as it does to 
make a film. (Films, after all, typically *include* music.) I was just 
saying that making music is nowhere near as cheap as it sounds.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
> saying that making music is nowhere near as cheap as it sounds.

Man, with today's tech at cheap prices, virtually anyone can own their 
own recording studio.  Aside from that, music *composition* takes years 
of training, but is basically the musician and his instrument while 
sketching it away.  Later it's just a matter of hiring some extra 
musicians and perhaps sound engineers to do the recording and editing. 
And then virtual distribution through some music store.  Hardly 
multi-million shattering.

That is, if all you want is just some honest cash by music-making, 
without resorting to multi-million marketing pushing you and your band 
as the latest teen idol and junk seller.

The recording industry truly is not needed anymore.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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nemesis wrote:

> Man, with today's tech at cheap prices, virtually anyone can own their 
> own recording studio.  Aside from that, music *composition* takes years 
> of training, but is basically the musician and his instrument while 
> sketching it away.  Later it's just a matter of hiring some extra 
> musicians and perhaps sound engineers to do the recording and editing. 
> And then virtual distribution through some music store.  Hardly 
> multi-million shattering.
> 
> That is, if all you want is just some honest cash by music-making, 
> without resorting to multi-million marketing pushing you and your band 
> as the latest teen idol and junk seller.
> 
> The recording industry truly is not needed anymore.

Well, theoretically I *have* a recording studio in my bedroom. It 
doesn't sound too hot though. That's either because my stuff is rubbish, 
or - more likely - I'm not a highly trained professional recording 
engineer. I doubt those guys will ever become obsolete. :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Warp wrote:
> somebody <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
>> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
> 
>> As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies.
> 
>   I didn't ask "how much does it cost to create one CD?"
> 
>   I asked "how much does it cost to create one CD *of music*". There's
> a big difference. Making the music costs money.
> 
>   However, my point is that it costs *nowhere* near the budget of a
> blockbuster movie. Not even if you rent an entire opera house and an
> entire philarmonic orchestra (which is, btw, what most movies do
> *besides* everything else; the music CD doesn't need the "everything
> else").

And the price of CDs are *nowhere* near the price of movie DVDs either, but
I'll grant you it's quite a different factor.

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On Fri, 22 May 2009 16:00:15 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 May 2009 17:03:12 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> >> >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?
>> > 
>> >> Instruments and training are expensive, depending on what the
>> >> musician plays.
>> > 
>> >   Worth 100 million dollars? I don't think so.
> 
>> Think symphony orchestra.
> 
>   All music CDs are created by a symphony orchestra?

<sigh>  No.  It's called an example.

>   Even if it was so, a symphony orchestra does *not* cost 100 million
> dollars. Heck, even an entire opera house built from scratch is probably
> not going to cost that much. (And even if it were, it's not like they
> would have to build one opera house per CD.)

The relative difference in costs still doesn't make it any more or less 
right for the rights-holder to protect their investment.  If I invest $1 
in something that I own the rights to, I have just as much right to 
protect that investment as Warner Bros. does on any film they create.

Jim

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On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:09:07 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Web hosting?
>>>
>>> You *can* host a website from a laptop in your house, connected to the
>>> Internet via ADSL. I've done it. But it works *really* badly...
>> 
>> I do it today on 3 Mbps ADSL, works OK for my uses.  Largely depends on
>> the traffic you're expecting (and that you ultimately get).  Your site
>> must've been *really* popular. ;-)
> 
> More like... my site is only available when I remember to turn my laptop
> back on. (And when my mum doesn't turn it off because the whirring of
> the fan is annoying her. Or because she's whining about how much
> electricity it uses.)

Makes sense.  I actually moved to a new server for my own website because 
the fan on the old one was driving me crazy. :-)

And I didn't have enough memory really for what the system was doing.

> Actually, 98% of my traffic consisted of HTTP GET requests for a URL
> that's about 64 KB long... so, I'm guessing it's trying to exploit some
> sort of buffer overrun vulnerability? (Which Apache presumably doesn't
> have.)

Well, it may have one, but not the one that was being tried. :-)

Jim

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:4a17055e@news.povray.org...
> somebody <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> > >   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

> > As much as it costs to create one CD of software. Pennies.

>   I didn't ask "how much does it cost to create one CD?"

>   I asked "how much does it cost to create one CD *of music*". There's
> a big difference. Making the music costs money.
>
>   However, my point is that it costs *nowhere* near the budget of a
> blockbuster movie.

There are some movies that cost in the 100 millions, many more that cost
much less. It's a broad spectrum.

> Not even if you rent an entire opera house and an
> entire philarmonic orchestra (which is, btw, what most movies do
> *besides* everything else; the music CD doesn't need the "everything
> else").

I'm not seeing what you are getting at. When all is said and done, are you
saying movie actors and producers end up earning less than musicians and
music producers? That doesn't compute. Movies typically have bigger budgets,
but they also bring more revenue in a very short period and there's not as
much competition. Practically half of the population may go see Star Trek or
Terminator in a weekend. No music concert or CD enjoys such sales. In the
end, you have to look at how each industry is thriving. I don't see music
industry in general leading a more luxurious existance than movie industry,
or sports industry, should you wish to bring them in too. But all do make a
handsome living, because entertainment in general has high demand. Business
models are not comparable. Musicians cannot make money by having their CDs
played in theatres, so of course they need to sell the CDs at a higher price
than if they could. If movie theatres disappeared and if actors needed to
make money either via live performances or DVD sales alone, the DVD prices
would not be the same.

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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
> 
>>>   The music industry is really, really greedy.
> 
>>  From what I hear, the film industry is not much different...
> 
>   At least the film industry has more reason for their actions. After all,
> if you pour 100 million dollars into making one single movie, you have some
> good motives to protect your rights.
> 
>   How much does it cost to create one CD of music?

The first one costs a lot.

Regards,
John

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