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On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:35:05 -0300, nemesis wrote:
> bunch of nazis...
I call Godwin's law.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:24:30 -0300, nemesis wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 May 2009 19:21:56 -0300, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>>>
>>>> And Wikipedia itself is not an acceptable source for content added to
>>>> Wikipedia:
>>> That would be kinda self-reinforcing, wouldn't it?
>> The point is not to add content to wikipedia based on wikipedia content.
>> The wikipedia content at question is merely a plot overview. I'm just
>> saying there that "The incredibles" has a very similar plot to Watchmen
>> and for the purpose of illustration I link to the plot overview in the
>> wikipedia entry for Watchmen. Which itself has no other reference than
>> the work itself.
>
> The problem is that because of the nature of Wikipedia, if you create an
> entry that says "All elephants are blue" and cite another Wikipedia
> article that contains that assertion as a source, you're not really
> citing a source.
If the plot in the Watchmen entry can't be taken for granted, they'd
better just drop the whole entry altogether. If however it is accurate
info, I don't see why I can't link to it. The only other option is to
read the damn graphic novel, really.
BTW, just found this:
http://www.filmstalker.co.uk/archives/2009/03/watchmen_vs_the_incredibles.html
Thankfully not just me... Now that people have watched the Watchmen
movie (bad pun), I guess The Incredibles entry should be updated. Back
then when I watched it, I saw some people making the link to Watchmen,
but since I never read it, I didn't knew to what extent.
Of course, most animation output is parodies in the same way as Shrek
and it's parodying of pop culture and fairy tales... but I thought Pixar
was all about story, not parody alone.
Whatever it is, The Incredibles and it mix of Fantastic Four, Watchmen
and 007 is still good fun. But now I understand why the plot itself was
so great...
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:35:05 -0300, nemesis wrote:
>
>> bunch of nazis...
>
> I call Godwin's law.
Don't you find it a bit weird that you can't even point it out in the
discussion page rather than in the entry?
They simply deleted the comment on the discussion page, although in the
same page there's a comparison to Fantastic Four (four heroes, one
strong, other invisible, another elastic). That's very obvious so no
denying.
Less obvious is the plot being a rip off from a comic classic, down to a
monocular, tentacled gigantic threat to a city and banned heroes...
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nemesis wrote:
> I'm just
> saying there that "The incredibles" has a very similar plot to Watchmen
No, you're saying Incredible was *inspired* by Watchmen, not just similar.
You would need to show that Brad Bird, for example, was aware of Watchmen
and knew the plot when he was making the Incredibles, as a minimum.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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nemesis wrote:
> The rest is up to one's own judgment.
An encyclopedia isn't supposed to be up to the reader's judgement.
If you put in a [1]
[1] Bird said he liked Watchmen in a June 1998 interview on The Tonight Show
and would base a film on it
then maybe you'd have something.
You can say "the film shares plot points with Watchmen." I don't htink
you've justified "the film was inspired by Watchmen."
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> I'm just saying there that "The incredibles" has a very similar plot
>> to Watchmen
>
> No, you're saying Incredible was *inspired* by Watchmen, not just similar.
>
> You would need to show that Brad Bird, for example, was aware of
> Watchmen and knew the plot when he was making the Incredibles, as a
> minimum.
How could he not be aware of this classic? You know Alan Moore was
featured in a Simpsons episode? You know Brad Bird was creative
consultant to the Simpsons? No, I don't know if the episode is from
before or after he left, what I do know is:
* a super-hero world where heroes are banned is by itself a very
non-conventional plot for a super-hero story (at least until Watchmen
got it done)
* the plot is kicked off when an older hero goes missing (and is found
to be dead)
* the villain threatens the world with a fake attack so that he can be
"heroic"
* the threat is a huge, monocular monster with tentacles
* the monster was raised in a remote Island
* the dead hero was killed because of what the plans he uncovered in the
Island
* cape is bad for your health
If that's not enough for a link, I'll eat my underwear...
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On Fri, 15 May 2009 22:16:51 -0300, nemesis wrote:
> If the plot in the Watchmen entry can't be taken for granted, they'd
> better just drop the whole entry altogether.
Well, I don't know the plot. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I don't know for sure, but it might well be an administrative thing -
they say they can't accept other wikipedia pages as references because
you could end up with a situation where two articles make assertions and
reference each other (and only each other), and since they've said "dem's
da rules", they can't let it go because it opens the door for other
abuses.
Jim
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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> The rest is up to one's own judgment.
>
> An encyclopedia isn't supposed to be up to the reader's judgement.
>
> If you put in a [1]
>
> [1] Bird said he liked Watchmen in a June 1998 interview on The Tonight
> Show and would base a film on it
>
> then maybe you'd have something.
>
> You can say "the film shares plot points with Watchmen." I don't htink
> you've justified "the film was inspired by Watchmen."
A whole lot of very unconventional plot points. See my reply above.
I don't think that's mere coincidence.
Besides, I don't think Brad Bird would go on and admit a ripping like that.
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On Fri, 15 May 2009 22:22:46 -0300, nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:35:05 -0300, nemesis wrote:
>>
>>> bunch of nazis...
>>
>> I call Godwin's law.
>
> Don't you find it a bit weird that you can't even point it out in the
> discussion page rather than in the entry?
My comment has nothing to do with that. You reduced it to "what a bunch
of nazis", so I called Godwin's law.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 22:16:51 -0300, nemesis wrote:
>
>> If the plot in the Watchmen entry can't be taken for granted, they'd
>> better just drop the whole entry altogether.
>
> Well, I don't know the plot. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
>
> I don't know for sure, but it might well be an administrative thing -
> they say they can't accept other wikipedia pages as references because
> you could end up with a situation where two articles make assertions and
> reference each other (and only each other), and since they've said "dem's
> da rules", they can't let it go because it opens the door for other
> abuses.
Ok, I can accept that. I just can't accept that they may allow
references in the discussion page for Fantastic Four but not for
Watchmen. Something gotta hurt, I guess...
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