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On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:30 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
>>> Yeah. When was the second time the Enterprise cloaked? :-)
>>
>> But the lack of cloaking devices on the USS ships has been explained
>> many times in the series.
>
> Has it? I never heard. What was the explanation?
A treaty that the UFP didn't violate and the Romulans did, IIRC.
Jim
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:30 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> > Warp wrote:
> >> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >>> Yeah. When was the second time the Enterprise cloaked? :-)
> >>
> >> But the lack of cloaking devices on the USS ships has been explained
> >> many times in the series.
> >
> > Has it? I never heard. What was the explanation?
> A treaty that the UFP didn't violate and the Romulans did, IIRC.
It was most prominently explained in the very episode where USS Enterprise
got temporarily the (illegal) Federation cloak device.
--
- Warp
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On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:17:19 -0400, Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:30 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> > Warp wrote:
>> >> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> >>> Yeah. When was the second time the Enterprise cloaked? :-)
>> >>
>> >> But the lack of cloaking devices on the USS ships has been
>> >> explained
>> >> many times in the series.
>> >
>> > Has it? I never heard. What was the explanation?
>
>> A treaty that the UFP didn't violate and the Romulans did, IIRC.
>
> It was most prominently explained in the very episode where USS
> Enterprise
> got temporarily the (illegal) Federation cloak device.
Yep, that's the episode I'm thinking of, just don't remember all the
details.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 14 May 2009 15:34:27 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> I've heard that; part of what turned me off, to be honest, was the
>>> "hair band" theme music. But I didn't give it much of a chance, I'll
>>> admit to that. :-)
>>>
>>>
>> Why does everyone hate the music? Mind, it would have been nice to see
>> something more "original", but the opening music matched the whole,
>> "This is just one more step in a long progression.", kind of idea.
>
> I think largely the reason I disliked it so intensely was it was kinda a
> throwback to the 80's (not a happy time for me) and the idea of Star Trek
> theme music with a vocal was just unappealing to me.
>
> Jim
Hmm. Interestingly I read something recently that stated that the
problem many "older people" have with new things involves nostalgia.
They see/hear things that remind them of how they felt "before", and as
a result, depending on those feelings, they may avoid them, or seek them
out, and in the process, ignore everything else from the same time
period. This was in the context of explaining the idea of why people
constantly whine about everything "today" being a mess, but the past
"perfect". As the article writer put it, 90% of everything ever made is
crap, but history tends to filter out most of the bad stuff, and,
unfortunately, some of the good, leaving behind a badly skewed
perspective on just how good or bad things are now, compared to how they
where before.
Had a recent example of that even. Some guy saying, "Well, some obscure
village decided to lock themselves in, in kindness to the plague
infected, so those infected could walk the streets for a bit in peace,
but would anyone do that today?" Well, maybe not, but its *choosing* to
ignore the other millions of things people in the same period did to
each other on a daily basis that where "not" good, just to make some
lame point about the "charity" of modern people. And, its not
necessarily even an accurate example of how things have changed.
My father might be the opposite sort. His perspective is that things
have always been, on some level, bad, and filled with crazy people, so
today is no different. He can't see the point of *trying* to change
things. And what changes he does allow himself to see involve movies he
doesn't like, because they are not like "his", music he hates, because
its just noise, unlike his, etc.
We can choose to see reality, or to see the past as a great place where
nice things happened to us, or to see it as one where bad things did. In
the end, both of the later are purely self delusion, and prevent you
living in the current time, without your perspective of the past one
undermining the truth of what is happening "now". Both live in the past,
and can't see either the problems, or the progress, that exists "now".
It presents me with a need to remind myself that, when something crops
up I don't like too much, I need to ask myself, "Is this for a good
reason, or just because its either, 'from a time I don't remember a lot
of good things from', or, 'similar to something that happened when I
felt good about the world', but, never the less, "not" as good or bad as
I want to perceive it to be.
Its very hard to remember the positives of some time you where having
problems, or the bad in times you where doing well. But, its important
to consider both, if you can, otherwise, you end up being some 70 year
old man whining about how everything you see on TV, or at the movies, is
crap, unlike 90% of everything you ever saw 50 years ago. ;) lol
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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On Fri, 15 May 2009 18:07:43 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Hmm. Interestingly I read something recently that stated that the
> problem many "older people" have with new things involves nostalgia.
> They see/hear things that remind them of how they felt "before", and as
> a result, depending on those feelings, they may avoid them, or seek them
> out, and in the process, ignore everything else from the same time
> period.
In my own case, there were certainly happy times, but they largely did
not involve hanging out with kids my own age (I can think of maybe 3 or 4
kids I would hang out with regularly during that time period).
But sure, visual/auditory and even olfactory sensations can bring back
bad memories. I can't listen to The Beatles at all because of the
memories it triggers (hell, just talking about it brings the memories
flooding back).
> We can choose to see reality, or to see the past as a great place where
> nice things happened to us, or to see it as one where bad things did. In
> the end, both of the later are purely self delusion, and prevent you
> living in the current time, without your perspective of the past one
> undermining the truth of what is happening "now". Both live in the past,
> and can't see either the problems, or the progress, that exists "now".
It sounds like this article was full of pop-psychology nonsense to me.
Dismissing past experiences is denying the things that make you who you
are and prevent you from learning from past mistakes. It is human nature
to want to avoid things that remind us of painful times and events. It's
a self-preservation mechanism.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> It sounds like this article was full of pop-psychology nonsense to me.
> Dismissing past experiences is denying the things that make you who you
> are and prevent you from learning from past mistakes. It is human nature
> to want to avoid things that remind us of painful times and events. It's
> a self-preservation mechanism.
>
> Jim
Well, a lot of that is my interpretation. But, even I am not saying,
"Deny your past.", just, "Be aware of why you have the reaction." In
point of fact, I am not even specifically talking about the contents of
the original article the post was made to. I don't remember what it was,
but I think it was some tirade being made by some wacko about how chat
rooms where all evil, because it wasn't a church social. The comment I
referred to was someone else mentioning the statement made in someone's
book, that in the authors opinion, most of anything made in any given
time period isn't worth much, and that history shows a tendency for
people to filter out most of the bad things, except when they
can't/don't, and then they tend to, instead, filter out the good things.
This means, in a practical sense, that, for example, Mozart may have
written some brilliant unknown composition, only it got lost in
someone's attic, while some piece of total junk written in the same
period survived, purely do to having been included in someone's play.
History loses some things it shouldn't, and keeps some it shouldn't.
People tend to help this, by mis-associating things. For example, this
hypothetical lost work of Mozart may have landed in the attic due to
some big event that just "happened" to cast a negative light on music
for the only person that had an intact copy.
Its possible that you may be missing out on something because you are
allowing a real issue you had to prevent you enjoying something that had
nothing at all to do with it. And its hardly pop-psychology. Fact is,
its key to some techniques used to rid people of phobias as well, since,
if you think about it, this is a form of phobia and/or obsession. And in
such cases, "getting past it", requires disassociating the original
event from the unconnected trigger. This is harder to manage with
"positive" associations, but.. I don't think you would disagree that
some such things can be unhealthy too, if they detract from ones ability
to deal objectively with something new. You certainly wouldn't likely
disagree if I was talking about someone insisting on wearing their
"lucky jock strap" in a ball game, because they formed some irrational
association between wearing it and winning, but this is hardly different
than calling 100% of everything on TV "bad", because its not a 1960s
western, or an old war movie.
The point is, not to deny your experience, just... don't let it turn you
into the grumpy old man that hates everything new, because that "new
thing" reminds you of The Beatles, instead of some other band you
actually liked. ;)
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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On Sat, 16 May 2009 14:35:57 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> The point is, not to deny your experience, just... don't let it turn you
> into the grumpy old man that hates everything new, because that "new
> thing" reminds you of The Beatles, instead of some other band you
> actually liked. ;-)
I wasn't saying that it reminded me of The Beatles, I was using The
Beatles as an example of something I can't listen to because it brings up
painful memories. I know why it does, but the memories are painful
enough that I would rather not remember them.
But at the same time, I'm perfectly fine listening to The Eagles because
(a) I like them, and (b) because I associate happy memories with them.
Similarly, I can listen to Vivaldi's Four Seasons and bring back
extremely vivid memories of being in Puerto Vallarta when I was in 9th
grade - sitting in the hotel lobby listening to a cassette I'd purchased
and reading the Foundation books. That was a school trip, and while I
ended up spending most of the time by myself, the memories were still
good.
What the Enterprise music evokes for me is riding on the bus home from
school and being taunted by other kids on the bus. It's not an
excruciatingly bad memory, but it was typical of how I spent most of my
days at school - being teased and picked on by the bullies at the school.
That's not exactly something I wish to remember in great detail. I dealt
with it then, I lived through it, and I moved on to better things.
That's not to say there weren't good memories associated with school
(performing in the orchestra, for example, or performing solos in the
solo and ensemble "contests" the district held).
But I've also learned over the years (only 38 of them so far) that being
a curmudgeon has its uses, too. :-)
Jim
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