>> ...you want a program that works on Windows 98?
>>
>> Uh, good luck with that then.
> 
> Ya! I know I should up grade. But I'm cheap :)

You said it, not me. ;-)

Still, you can only buy Vista or Windows 7 right now... I'm guessing 
running that on a PC designed for Win98 wouldn't be much fun. So this is 
already starting to look like a fairly expensive proposition.




>> So are you talking about *.hlp or *.chm files? They're different file 
>> formats.
> 
> Any thing would do. I had a nice *.hlp editor once.

*.hlp is very obsolete, *.chm is still current I think. I'm sure you can 
probably download the compiler from MS themselves.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Leroy Whetstone schrieb:
> clipka wrote:
>> Why is that?
> 
> Let's see a long long time ago I was in the middle of a then complex 
> program and I needed some critical information fast. So I found a PDF
> with what I wanted on the net. It took for ever to download. I don't 
> remember what program I used to read it. But I do remember two things 
> the size of that PDF was out of proportion to the information on it and 
> it wasn't what I wanted. I hate it. I could have got to 10 web sites
> in the time it took me to read that one PDF.

Wait - let me get that straight: You advocate against PDF for inbuilt 
help because you have bad experience with it as on-the-net help?

Okay...


>> They give a nice, clean, consistent layout on every output device 
>> (including printers). HTML files, on the other hand, always have this 
>> subtle "half-finished" feel to them, no matter how much effort you put 
>> into their design.
> 
> I rearly print anything. If I find something interesting on the net I 
> download it or bookmark it.

I'm not just talking about printing - I'm talking about on-screen 
appearance, too.


>> And you can easily do a full-text search on a PDF, which is always a 
>> semi-hassle with HTML help files (as they typically don't come in a 
>> single file).
> 
> That's why I liked a will written *.hlp file's index.

That's not native part of HTML. And besides, you can do full text search 
in a PDF anytime even if the author did not bother to create a good index.

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stbenge schrieb:

> My biggest problem with PDFs is that people always seem to bloat the 
> stupid things. They end up taking forever to download. Also, the pages 
> skip in an annoying way while paging through them.

You know that you can configure the way how to page through a document?

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I suspect they are not actually the same versions of Windows 7, plus I 
assume the PC maker gets a discount for bulk-buying.


pre-release sale :-)  I installed it but haven't had time to use it much, I 
do *really* like the new way the shortcut bar and running programs at the 
bottom are combined together.

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stbenge wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> (Who the hell is going to print out 2,000 pages on actual paper?)
> 
> When I first discovered POV-Ray, I printed out the entire help file. I 
> don't think it was 2000 pages, but it was a big stack nevertheless :S

Duplex?

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>> Personally, I think HTML help files are great, as long as everything is
>> linked correctly. It's either one extra directory to the index, or one
>> extra visible folder to look at. A good trade-off, IMO.
> 
> I prefer HTML to PDF too.

As I said before, they are designed for different things.

If you're trying to produce high-quality printed material, PDF is the 
natural way to do. It is designed from the ground up to support printing.

For viewing stuff on-screen, PDF isn't such a hot choice. HTML has the 
advantage that the text can be reflowed to any screen resolution and 
window size. It's specifically designed for on-screen display.

It's about using the right tool for the job.

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>> When I first discovered POV-Ray, I printed out the entire help file. I 
>> don't think it was 2000 pages, but it was a big stack nevertheless :S
>
> Duplex?

2000 sides duplex?  That would take about a week to print on our office 
laser :-)  Seriously, the duplex process seems to slow it down from ~40ppm 
to 2ppm.  If you're printing out a 2000 side document that isn't exactly 
100% strictly perfectly work related then it might be an issue...

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>>> When I first discovered POV-Ray, I printed out the entire help file. 
>>> I don't think it was 2000 pages, but it was a big stack nevertheless :S
>>
>> Duplex?
> 
> 2000 sides duplex?  That would take about a week to print on our office 
> laser :-)  Seriously, the duplex process seems to slow it down from 
> ~40ppm to 2ppm.  If you're printing out a 2000 side document that isn't 
> exactly 100% strictly perfectly work related then it might be an issue...

Heh. *My* laser printer at home doesn't even have a duplexer. If you 
want to do this, you have to ask Acrobat to print the odd-numbered pages 
in reverse order, feed the stack of pages thus generated back into the 
beast, and tell Acrobat to print even-numbered pages in forwards order.

Or is it the other way around? I can never remember...

Notice that *only* Acrobat actually offers the ability to do these 
things, as far as I can tell. If you want to print from some other 
program... good luck!

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> Heh. *My* laser printer at home doesn't even have a duplexer.

I got one of those ultra-cheap inkjets a couple of years ago and rather 
surprisingly that can do duplex - I still haven't quite worked out how it 
manages to do it in such a tiny package.

> If you want to do this, you have to ask Acrobat to print the odd-numbered 
> pages in reverse order, feed the stack of pages thus generated back into 
> the beast, and tell Acrobat to print even-numbered pages in forwards 
> order.
>
> Or is it the other way around? I can never remember...

Yeh I remember doing that, you have to make sure you put the stack of paper 
back in the right way around, in the right order, and the right way up too.

> Notice that *only* Acrobat actually offers the ability to do these things, 
> as far as I can tell. If you want to print from some other program... good 
> luck!

MS Word offers it too AFAIK.  Programs that don't offer it usually allow you 
to type in a page range, for longer documents you could automatically 
generate a string like 1,3,5,7,9,... using your favourite method :-)

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>> Heh. *My* laser printer at home doesn't even have a duplexer.
> 
> I got one of those ultra-cheap inkjets a couple of years ago and rather 
> surprisingly that can do duplex - I still haven't quite worked out how 
> it manages to do it in such a tiny package.


and wireless connectivity. The surprising thing about it is that it's 
really, really damned FAST. I've never seen an inkjet so fast!


make your tea...

>> If you want to do this, you have to ask Acrobat to print the 
>> odd-numbered pages in reverse order, feed the stack of pages thus 
>> generated back into the beast, and tell Acrobat to print even-numbered 
>> pages in forwards order.
>>
>> Or is it the other way around? I can never remember...
> 
> Yeh I remember doing that, you have to make sure you put the stack of 
> paper back in the right way around, in the right order, and the right 
> way up too.

The print path on my printer is reasonably intuitive, so that's not too 
hard. (The first pass is in reverse so that the second pass can be in 
sequence. So that handles the ordering.)

>> Notice that *only* Acrobat actually offers the ability to do these 
>> things, as far as I can tell. If you want to print from some other 
>> program... good luck!
> 
> MS Word offers it too AFAIK.

I don't think it allows you to select odd/even pages or print them in 
reverse order. (I could be wrong, of course.) It allows you to select 
ranges, but I don't think it does more than that.

> Programs that don't offer it usually allow 
> you to type in a page range, for longer documents you could 
> automatically generate a string like 1,3,5,7,9,... using your favourite 
> method :-)

How much do you want to bet there's a size limit on the input field? ;-)

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