 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
OK, so here's a question...
I have in front of my an S3 Trio3D/2X graphics card. What the hell kind
of slot does that plug into??
I assumed it was AGP, but when I put it up against the motherboard, the
key is in the wrong place.
So this card is neither PCI nor AGP, so... WHAT IS IT?? >_<
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> OK, so here's a question...
>
> I have in front of my an S3 Trio3D/2X graphics card. What the hell kind
> of slot does that plug into??
>
> I assumed it was AGP, but when I put it up against the motherboard, the
> key is in the wrong place.
>
> So this card is neither PCI nor AGP, so... WHAT IS IT?? >_<
AGP slots comes in several variants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AGP_%26_AGP_Pro_Keying.svg
--
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> So this card is neither PCI nor AGP, so... WHAT IS IT?? >_<
>
> AGP slots comes in several variants:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AGP_%26_AGP_Pro_Keying.svg
I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that I have a 3.3V card
and it won't fit in a 1.5V slot... From these diagrams, that appears to
be the case. (There's another key not shown, but the board has no
contacts on it, and the slot appears to be mechanical only.)
Either way, this doesn't help me... *sigh*
But hey, I won't let that dampen my mood. ;-)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Le 22.04.2009 11:28, Invisible nous fit lire :
> Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>>> So this card is neither PCI nor AGP, so... WHAT IS IT?? >_<
>>
>> AGP slots comes in several variants:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AGP_%26_AGP_Pro_Keying.svg
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that I have a 3.3V card
> and it won't fit in a 1.5V slot... From these diagrams, that appears to
> be the case. (There's another key not shown, but the board has no
> contacts on it, and the slot appears to be mechanical only.)
>
> Either way, this doesn't help me... *sigh*
The AGP kind is in the name of your card S3 Trio3D/*2X*, the card as a x2 AGP port.
Nowadays port (well, the latest before PCI-E) was AGP x4/x8
They are not compatible.
AGP x2 use 3.3V signaling. You need a motherboard with AGP x2... very old too.
your card might work with AGPx1 motherboard too.
The otherkey is just the fitting AGP-length connector, not all lines are used by your
card. It also avoid inserting in PCI slot (electrical damage expected).
Later, an additional key was made to lock the card in the slot, but it was not
mandatory
for the first AGP.
Another sad news expect you: the video connector... modern LCD have no more VGA
connector!
(and finding a good CRT is an impossible mission nowaday)
Last note for the card:
It's not even worth the postal stamp
http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/5367905/S3-Trio-3D-2X-4-Mo-AGP-2-x-Carte-graphique.html
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> I have in front of my an S3 Trio3D/2X graphics card.
Actually, I have three of them. And you know what? They're all slightly
different...
If I compare any pair of boards, there is a difference. So it's not like
one board is different to the other two, they're ALL different!
- Boards B and C have two RAM chips on them. Board A has bays for two
chips, but only one is present. (All three boards are spec'd as "4 MB".)
- Board B has a different brand of RAM chip. (But *all* the boards have
different *models* of RAM chip.)
- Boards A and C have pins on the AGP connector which aren't connected
to anything. But on board B, those pins are physically missing rather
than just unconnected.
- Board B has less writing printed on it between the two RAM chips. The
actual components mounted there appear identical, but just fewer markings.
- Each board has some kind of 3-pin component with what looks like a
heat sink soldered to a very large metal pad on the board. Oddly, only
two of the three pins are connected to anything; the middle pin is cut
off at the base. On boards A and C, there are three metal pads on the
board that end in rounded tips, and the middle one appears to be a
continuation of the large pad the heat sink is soldered to. But on board
B, there is a gap between the pads the pins are soldered to and the
circles at the end, and there is no middle pad (but the circle is still
there).
- Some of the code numbers on both the S3 chip and the Holtek chip are
different on each board, while others are identical. (I'm guessing these
are serial numbers, or at least revision numbers.)
- Hello, I didn't notice this: Board B says "SP368G REV:2" on it, while
the other two boards say "SP368G REV:3" on them.
So there we are. *Clearly* I have too much free time...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Le_Forgeron wrote:
>> I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that I have a 3.3V card
>> and it won't fit in a 1.5V slot... From these diagrams, that appears to
>> be the case. (There's another key not shown, but the board has no
>> contacts on it, and the slot appears to be mechanical only.)
>>
>> Either way, this doesn't help me... *sigh*
>
> The AGP kind is in the name of your card S3 Trio3D/*2X*, the card as a x2 AGP port.
Ah, is *that* what that means? I stupidly assumed it ment twice the 3D
power or something daft like that.
> Nowadays port (well, the latest before PCI-E) was AGP x4/x8
> They are not compatible.
> AGP x2 use 3.3V signaling. You need a motherboard with AGP x2... very old too.
> your card might work with AGPx1 motherboard too.
Heh. Well, these are old, old cards. I decided to keep them as spares,
but I guess there's pretty useless in that capacity now.
> Another sad news expect you: the video connector... modern LCD have no more VGA
connector!
> (and finding a good CRT is an impossible mission nowaday)
Ah, but they all seem to come with DVI-to-VGA converters. ;-)
> Last note for the card:
> It's not even worth the postal stamp
>
>
http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/5367905/S3-Trio-3D-2X-4-Mo-AGP-2-x-Carte-graphique.html
How interesting... both of those photos look significantly different to
the product I have here.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that I have a 3.3V card
> and it won't fit in a 1.5V slot... From these diagrams, that appears to
> be the case. (There's another key not shown, but the board has no
> contacts on it, and the slot appears to be mechanical only.)
A photo would help. If it's really old it might be ISA :-)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> - Some of the code numbers on both the S3 chip and the Holtek chip are
> different on each board, while others are identical. (I'm guessing these
> are serial numbers, or at least revision numbers.)
The Holtek chips say "HT27C512-70" followed by a number that's unique to
each chip. Apparently this part number is a "OTP CMOS 64K x 8-Bit EPROM".
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/64437/HOLTEK/HT27C512.html
"The HT27C512 chip family is a low-power, 512K bit, +5V electrically
one-time programmable (OTP) read-only memories (EPROM)."
Um, wouldn't that make it a PROM rather than an EPROM? The E is for
*erasible*. :-P
...so I'm guessing this is the card's firmware then?
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> - Board B has a different brand of RAM chip. (But *all* the boards have
> different *models* of RAM chip.)
Wrong.
Board A has EliteMT, board B has ACTRAM, and board C has eFox.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
scott wrote:
> A photo would help. If it's really old it might be ISA :-)
LOL! No... ISA is much larger than this. It's the exact same physical
dimensions as the AGP slot on the motherboard, just with the key slot in
a different position.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> - Board B has less writing printed on it between the two RAM chips. The
> actual components mounted there appear identical, but just fewer markings.
Wrong. Actually there are slightly more components on board A and C (the
"rev:3" boards).
BTW, what *are* those absurdly tiny 2-pin devices scattered all over the
board? Resisters? Many of them have labels printed on the board such as
"R7". But a few are labelled "C13" or similar...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> BTW, what *are* those absurdly tiny 2-pin devices scattered all over the
> board? Resisters? Many of them have labels printed on the board such as
> "R7". But a few are labelled "C13" or similar...
Yes, take a wild guess what R and C stand for :-)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> BTW, what *are* those absurdly tiny 2-pin devices scattered all over the
> board?
Wouldn't you be referring to surface-mount resistors?
--
- Warp
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
scott wrote:
>> BTW, what *are* those absurdly tiny 2-pin devices scattered all over
>> the board? Resisters? Many of them have labels printed on the board
>> such as "R7". But a few are labelled "C13" or similar...
>
> Yes, take a wild guess what R and C stand for :-)
I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
> physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
It's all about total surface area. If you pack tons of really thin
surfaces really close to each other in a layered fashion, you can get
a surprisingly large surface area inside a surprisingly small volume.
--
- Warp
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 22-4-2009 12:56, Invisible wrote:
> scott wrote:
>>> BTW, what *are* those absurdly tiny 2-pin devices scattered all over
>>> the board? Resisters? Many of them have labels printed on the board
>>> such as "R7". But a few are labelled "C13" or similar...
>>
>> Yes, take a wild guess what R and C stand for :-)
>
> I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
> physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
depends on what the correct capacitance is. On a board that runs at a
high frequency I expect some very tiny ones.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 22-4-2009 13:05, Warp wrote:
> Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
>> physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
>
> It's all about total surface area.
and the width and composition of the insulator layers.
> If you pack tons of really thin
> surfaces really close to each other in a layered fashion, you can get
> a surprisingly large surface area inside a surprisingly small volume.
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
> physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
Within reason, yes. I suspect they can manufacture a range of values for
each package size.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Le 22.04.2009 12:37, Invisible nous fit lire :
> The Holtek chips say "HT27C512-70" followed by a number that's unique to
> each chip. Apparently this part number is a "OTP CMOS 64K x 8-Bit EPROM".
>
> http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/64437/HOLTEK/HT27C512.html
>
> "The HT27C512 chip family is a low-power, 512K bit, +5V electrically
> one-time programmable (OTP) read-only memories (EPROM)."
>
> Um, wouldn't that make it a PROM rather than an EPROM? The E is for
> *erasible*. :-P
it is erasable.
E from EPROM is erasable programmable (EP).
first E from EEPROM is electrically.
EPROM are erased with UV-light. EEPROM are erased electrically.
Now, if the packaging has no window (cheaper), the EPROM become a OTP EPROM...
a PROM is using fuse, so technically they are different.
But at the core, it's still an EPROM... that packaging does not allow to erase.
(how do you like your marketing text ?)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
scott wrote:
>> I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
>> physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
>
> Within reason, yes. I suspect they can manufacture a range of values for
> each package size.
Mmm, OK.
So my next question is... why does a digital device require so many
millions of resisters and capacitors?
(Maybe millions is an exaggeration, but there sure is a lot of them
here... Big ones, tiny ones... I assume the tiny ones *must* be mounted
by machine?)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> Actually, I have three of them. And you know what? They're all slightly
> different...
>
> If I compare any pair of boards, there is a difference. So it's not like
> one board is different to the other two, they're ALL different!
>
> - Boards B and C have two RAM chips on them. Board A has bays for two
> chips, but only one is present. (All three boards are spec'd as "4 MB".)
>
> - Board B has a different brand of RAM chip. (But *all* the boards have
> different *models* of RAM chip.)
>
> - Boards A and C have pins on the AGP connector which aren't connected
> to anything. But on board B, those pins are physically missing rather
> than just unconnected.
>
> - Board B has less writing printed on it between the two RAM chips. The
> actual components mounted there appear identical, but just fewer markings.
>
> - Each board has some kind of 3-pin component with what looks like a
> heat sink soldered to a very large metal pad on the board. Oddly, only
> two of the three pins are connected to anything; the middle pin is cut
> off at the base. On boards A and C, there are three metal pads on the
> board that end in rounded tips, and the middle one appears to be a
> continuation of the large pad the heat sink is soldered to. But on board
> B, there is a gap between the pads the pins are soldered to and the
> circles at the end, and there is no middle pad (but the circle is still
> there).
>
> - Some of the code numbers on both the S3 chip and the Holtek chip are
> different on each board, while others are identical. (I'm guessing these
> are serial numbers, or at least revision numbers.)
>
> - Hello, I didn't notice this: Board B says "SP368G REV:2" on it, while
> the other two boards say "SP368G REV:3" on them.
>
> So there we are. *Clearly* I have too much free time...
...business as usual, eh? :-} Some things never change...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> So my next question is... why does a digital device require so many
> millions of resisters and capacitors?
Can't say for all designs, but I know on our LCD electrical designs it is
mainly for noise-reduction and filtering. If we didn't filter the digital
signals, especially the ones on long tracks, we would be above the EMC noise
limits allowed. In a car in particular, the FM receiver circuitry is
usually right next to the LCD, so the 85-110 MHz band is extra important, I
imagine most consumer devices have similar requirements.
> (Maybe millions is an exaggeration, but there sure is a lot of them
> here... Big ones, tiny ones... I assume the tiny ones *must* be mounted by
> machine?)
It's done by a "pick&place" machine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7w5OUXwTZs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NamGXOgb5s
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> So my next question is... why does a digital device require so many
>> millions of resisters and capacitors?
>
> Can't say for all designs, but I know on our LCD electrical designs it
> is mainly for noise-reduction and filtering. If we didn't filter the
> digital signals, especially the ones on long tracks, we would be above
> the EMC noise limits allowed. In a car in particular, the FM receiver
> circuitry is usually right next to the LCD, so the 85-110 MHz band is
> extra important, I imagine most consumer devices have similar requirements.
Well, I'm looking at a graphics card, so presumably it's to isolate any
noise from the AGP bus from the (much lower frequency) video signal?
>> I assume the tiny ones *must* be mounted by machine?
>
> It's done by a "pick&place" machine:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7w5OUXwTZs
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NamGXOgb5s
That's pretty insane...
Presumably the through-the-hole stuff is done by a human operator.
(Indeed, I worked on a production line doing that once...) The
surface-mount stuff is machine. Or that would be my guess anyway...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> Well, I'm looking at a graphics card, so presumably it's to isolate any
> noise from the AGP bus from the (much lower frequency) video signal?
Hmmm, my graphics card is churning out (1920*1200 + 1600*1200)*60*24 bits
per second. Is the AGP bus higher than that?
> Presumably the through-the-hole stuff is done by a human operator.
I don't know, all our components are surface mount.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
scott wrote:
>> Well, I'm looking at a graphics card, so presumably it's to isolate
>> any noise from the AGP bus from the (much lower frequency) video signal?
>
> Hmmm, my graphics card is churning out (1920*1200 + 1600*1200)*60*24
> bits per second. Is the AGP bus higher than that?
An antique graphics card can't do that. IIRC, this has a maximum
resolution of 1024x768, and it's analogue output only.
>> Presumably the through-the-hole stuff is done by a human operator.
>
> I don't know, all our components are surface mount.
This one has several radial electrolytic capacitors.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> An antique graphics card can't do that. IIRC, this has a maximum
> resolution of 1024x768, and it's analogue output only.
I'm sure it's not that low (my first computer 20 years ago could do that),
but anyway the bit-rates that are input to the DAC (or to the DVI socket on
newer cards) are quite similar to what is happening on the AGP bus.
Also don't forget the board also needs to protect against ESD, any incoming
EMI, and also surpress any EMI that might affect other components inside the
case, or any components outside the case.
> This one has several radial electrolytic capacitors.
I would be surprised if there were not an automated way of mounting them.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> So my next question is... why does a digital device require so many
> millions of resisters and capacitors?
Because electronics are analog. The resistors and capacitors is what *makes*
it digital.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
>
> ...business as usual, eh? :-} Some things never change...
Interestingly, I had an HDTV tuner board where one of the capacitors (a
big electrolytic one) was knocked off the board during packaging and
shipping.
I called the company to inquire about the missing cap. They talked to
the engineers and concluded that it wasn't necessary for the proper
operation of the board..
It worked fine, BTW
--
~Mike
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Because electronics are analog. The resistors and capacitors is what *makes*
> it digital.
And I thought it was the transistors.
--
- Warp
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Because electronics are analog. The resistors and capacitors is what *makes*
>> it digital.
>
> And I thought it was the transistors.
Them too. Transistors are just resistors you can control the resistance of.
Transistors aren't digital without the resistors. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> So there we are. *Clearly* I have too much free time...
>
> ...business as usual, eh? :-} Some things never change...
...and some things do. Looks like I'm actually going to be *busy* today
for a change. o_O
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
>>> So there we are. *Clearly* I have too much free time...
>>
>> ...business as usual, eh? :-} Some things never change...
>
> ...and some things do. Looks like I'm actually going to be *busy* today
> for a change. o_O
Except that so far, I've spent the whole morning *waiting* for other
people to do their jobs before I can get started on mine! >_<
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> scott wrote:
>>> BTW, what *are* those absurdly tiny 2-pin devices scattered all over
>>> the board? Resisters? Many of them have labels printed on the board
>>> such as "R7". But a few are labelled "C13" or similar...
>>
>> Yes, take a wild guess what R and C stand for :-)
>
> I was under the impression that capacitors have to be of a specific
> physical size in order to have the correct capacitance...
Only caps used for filtering power supplies need to be in the millifarad
range, and these will be quite large (the size of an AA battery or even
larger). Caps used for filtering low-level electronic signals,
especially at high frequencies, are often in the picofarad range (and
will range in size between the size of a grain of rice to that of a
small tablet of aspirin).
Regards,
John
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
John VanSickle wrote:
> Only caps used for filtering power supplies need to be in the millifarad
> range,
A friend of mine had a 2 farad capacitor installed near his house to suck up
lightning strikes. About the size of a 55-gallon drum.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Darren New wrote:
> About the size of a 55-gallon drum.
And for those of you in metric lands, this is the size of a barrel in video
games. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> About the size of a 55-gallon drum.
>
> And for those of you in metric lands, this is the size of a barrel in
> video games. :-)
WIN!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Darren New wrote:
> A friend of mine had a 2 farad capacitor installed near his house to
> suck up lightning strikes. About the size of a 55-gallon drum.
I thought that's what an avalanche diode was for? Or is this connected
to a lightning rod? I'd sure hate to short the terminals on that after
charging it up !!
I've seen 1F caps in car audio shops, basically used to provide lots of
current to the amp when power is needed for strong transients (e.g. Bass
drum hit.) I'm sure it filters pretty much any ripple generated by the
alternator, too.
--
~Mike
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Mike Raiford wrote:
> I thought that's what an avalanche diode was for? Or is this connected
> to a lightning rod? I'd sure hate to short the terminals on that after
> charging it up !!
It was hooked to a ham radio antenna that was rather larger in surface area
than his house was. I don't know the details, but I think the idea was that
it would absorb the strike, then promptly melt, grounding it out. Or something.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 24-4-2009 15:50, Darren New wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> About the size of a 55-gallon drum.
>
> And for those of you in metric lands, this is the size of a barrel in
> video games. :-)
>
>
And for those metric and who don't play video games?
Even for a cell membrane (one of the best capacitors known to man IIRC)
you'd still need a surface of 200 m2, about half a basketball court, for
that.
Once I was in a lab when suddenly there was a load bang from a room
somewhere else in the building. As load as a gunshot or louder (haven't
heard one of those IRL, so I am just guessing). Casual comment from the
guy I was with: oh it's only Martin. This Martin was doing experiments
with a laser and he needed some capacitors of a more than a liter (the
size of a large coke-bottle). Apparently every now and then one did explode.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Mike Raiford wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine had a 2 farad capacitor installed near his house to
>> suck up lightning strikes. About the size of a 55-gallon drum.
>
> I thought that's what an avalanche diode was for? Or is this connected
> to a lightning rod? I'd sure hate to short the terminals on that after
> charging it up !!
>
> I've seen 1F caps in car audio shops, basically used to provide lots of
> current to the amp when power is needed for strong transients (e.g. Bass
> drum hit.) I'm sure it filters pretty much any ripple generated by the
> alternator, too.
Here, have some 300F caps :)
http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/products/
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
