Invisible wrote:

> A reply would be good though...

Jesus, I *still* need to learn to let go and stop obsessing about stuff! >_<

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_shyness
> 
> That was me 10 years ago... ;-)

That's me now.

Post a reply to this message

>> That was me 10 years ago... ;-)
> 
> That's me now.

Ah, don't worry. You just gotta relax and... who am I kidding? Right now 
I'm sat next to the phone waiting for it to ring, even though I know it 
won't. :-| How dumb is that??

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:42:39 -0300, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Also, I should mention that what you've done is something I've never
>> done.  Ever.  I've always been *far* too shy to ask anyone for their
>> phone number in a setting like this.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_shyness

Maybe something like that.  Extreme fear of rejection was a bit part of 
it.  I was always the kid the girls wanted to have as a friend so they 
could complain about their boyfriends (or the other boys they wanted as 
their boyfriends) to someone.

Jim

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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:21:33 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> That was me 10 years ago... ;-)
>> 
>> That's me now.
> 
> Ah, don't worry. You just gotta relax and... who am I kidding? Right now
> I'm sat next to the phone waiting for it to ring, even though I know it
> won't. :-| How dumb is that??

Go find something to do - a watched phone never rings.

If she phones and you're not there, she can leave a message, right?

Jim

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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:26:07 -0400, Warp wrote:

>   How else do they know who to send the bills to in your country?

Because they're given a mailing address?

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> Ah, don't worry. You just gotta relax and... who am I kidding? Right now
>> I'm sat next to the phone waiting for it to ring, even though I know it
>> won't. :-| How dumb is that??
> 
> Go find something to do - a watched phone never rings.
> 
> If she phones and you're not there, she can leave a message, right?

She's at work right now. There's no way in hell she's going to call from 
work.

Also... my phone has a voicemail function, but I have no idea how it 
works. But I'll know she called, which is the main thing.

(I'm not seriously expecting her to call, rather to reply to my SMS...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:51:13 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Ah, don't worry. You just gotta relax and... who am I kidding? Right
>>> now I'm sat next to the phone waiting for it to ring, even though I
>>> know it won't. :-| How dumb is that??
>> 
>> Go find something to do - a watched phone never rings.
>> 
>> If she phones and you're not there, she can leave a message, right?
> 
> She's at work right now. There's no way in hell she's going to call from
> work.

OK, so that is a little nuts. ;-)

> Also... my phone has a voicemail function, but I have no idea how it
> works. But I'll know she called, which is the main thing.

I'm sure you could find out, though. :-)

> (I'm not seriously expecting her to call, rather to reply to my SMS...)

That's also a possibility....kids these days seem to prefer texting to 
phoning. :-)

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:26:07 -0400, Warp wrote:

> >   How else do they know who to send the bills to in your country?

> Because they're given a mailing address?

  And if the person in question does not pay his bills and moves to
another place?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:26:07 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>>>   How else do they know who to send the bills to in your country?
> 
>> Because they're given a mailing address?
> 
>   And if the person in question does not pay his bills and moves to
> another place?

Then they keep the deposit.  :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:28:59 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:26:07 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> >   How else do they know who to send the bills to in your country?
> 
>> Because they're given a mailing address?
> 
>   And if the person in question does not pay his bills and moves to
> another place?

Then it goes to a collection agency which tracks them down.

In the US, credit reporting agencies tend to have good data on where 
people are located as well.

SSN is not a universal ID in the US.  It's a taxpayer identification 
number and really nothing more.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >   And if the person in question does not pay his bills and moves to
> > another place?

> Then it goes to a collection agency which tracks them down.

  And the easiest way of doing that here is with the social security number,
as it's an unambiguous unique identifier (and the government has your data
associated with it).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_shyness
> 
> Maybe something like that.  Extreme fear of rejection was a bit part of 
> it.  I was always the kid the girls wanted to have as a friend so they 
> could complain about their boyfriends (or the other boys they wanted as 
> their boyfriends) to someone.

When *I* was a kid, "girls" were these mythical creatures that I'd never 
actually seen or interacted with before, but I desperately wanted to 
find one and keep her for ever and ever...

Of course, gradually I came to realise that girls are actually just 
normal human beings who are a bit special. Some of them are nice, some 
of them are arseholes. Oddly, attractiveness appears to be negatively 
correlated with personality... but it's only a general correlation, 
there is of course considerable variability.

Now, if I could just learn to not be terrified of all human beings, 
maybe I'd be getting somewhere! :-}

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Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>>   And if the person in question does not pay his bills and moves to
>>> another place?
> 
>> Then it goes to a collection agency which tracks them down.
> 
>   And the easiest way of doing that here is with the social security number,
> as it's an unambiguous unique identifier (and the government has your data
> associated with it).

Yes. Here, if you refuse to give your SSN to (say) the phone company, 
they'll require about six months of deposit from you (i.e., about 6 bills 
worth of money), and they'll give that back after a year. And you'll still 
get sent to collections if you don't pay after that, and you won't get phone 
service without a big deposit next time even if you give your SSN. (That's 
one of the things those 300TB databases tracks.)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:45 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_shyness
>> 
>> Maybe something like that.  Extreme fear of rejection was a bit part of
>> it.  I was always the kid the girls wanted to have as a friend so they
>> could complain about their boyfriends (or the other boys they wanted as
>> their boyfriends) to someone.
> 
> When *I* was a kid, "girls" were these mythical creatures that I'd never
> actually seen or interacted with before, but I desperately wanted to
> find one and keep her for ever and ever...

Heh, dude, you *are* a kid. ;-)  Aren't you in your late 20's?

> Of course, gradually I came to realise that girls are actually just
> normal human beings who are a bit special. Some of them are nice, some
> of them are arseholes. Oddly, attractiveness appears to be negatively
> correlated with personality... but it's only a general correlation,
> there is of course considerable variability.

Indeed there is. :-)

> Now, if I could just learn to not be terrified of all human beings,
> maybe I'd be getting somewhere! :-}

You're making progress.  :-)

Jim

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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 03:11:12 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> >   And if the person in question does not pay his bills and moves to
>> > another place?
> 
>> Then it goes to a collection agency which tracks them down.
> 
>   And the easiest way of doing that here is with the social security
>   number,

Maybe there, but not here...not everyone in the US has one.  Many people 
who live in the US don't, even though they're legal.

> as it's an unambiguous unique identifier (and the government has your
> data associated with it).

Over here we tend to be suspicious (some would say "overly suspicious") 
of the idea of a national identity database.  Governments around the 
world have demonstrated that they're not terribly good at keeping data 
that should secure secured.  Though the most recent examples I can think 
of are from he UK....

Jim

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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:45:44 -0700, Darren New wrote:

>  if you refuse to give your SSN to (say) the phone company,
> they'll require about six months of deposit from you

I think that depends on where you are in the US, though.

I don't recall ever giving my SSN to a utility company in the states I've 
lived in, and don't recall ever having to pay a deposit, either - even 
when my credit rating was bad.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> Maybe there, but not here...not everyone in the US has one.  Many people 
> who live in the US don't, even though they're legal.

  I can't understand how that can work. The most prominent problem which
comes to mind is: How do they collect taxes if they don't know who is who?
How can employers inform the government who is working for them if the
employees have no ID? (At least here employers have a rather strict duty
to have very accurate paperwork on who is working and every single cent
is accounted for and notified, mostly for taxing and insurance purposes
but also for other things, such as ensuring employee rights and such.)

> > as it's an unambiguous unique identifier (and the government has your
> > data associated with it).

> Over here we tend to be suspicious (some would say "overly suspicious") 
> of the idea of a national identity database.  Governments around the 
> world have demonstrated that they're not terribly good at keeping data 
> that should secure secured.  Though the most recent examples I can think 
> of are from he UK....

  One can be suspicious of a government that wants to keep accurate
information on every single citizen of the country, but I really can't
understand how a country can work without that. The Finnish government
(and I'm sure it's the same for many other countries) knows the exact
number of Finnish citizens, and their basic info (date of birth, etc.)

  That might sound a bit draconian when said like that, but I have yet
to feel that being abused. It seems to work quite well. One situation
where the government knowing who you are works pretty well is in, as
the name implies, social security. For example if you break a leg, you
just go to the hospital, tell your social security number, and they fix
you up for free. No hassle.

  To somewhat compensate, Finland has very strict privacy laws (probably
much stricter than in most other countries). For example, it's strictly
prohibited to publish lists of information about people, such as for
example people's names and their SSNs. This goes sometimes to rather
extremes: For example, at schools it's prohibited to put lists of
student names and their student numbers in public view (eg. in test
scores) because it's interpreted to break the privacy laws. (You can
publish lists which have only the numbers or only the names along with
the test scores, but not both. Most choose to publish only the numbers
because they feel more anonymous.)

  Another extreme example (and perhaps even a bit ridiculous) was a
Finnish website which collected photos of cars with funny license plates.
The website was shut down by authorities because it was interpreted to
break privacy laws (it connected license numbers with the technical
info of the cars, in the form of photographs).

  Naturally phonebooks are an exception to this. But even with them you
always specifically choose whether you want your number on the public
phone book or not when you create a phone contract. (And later you can
change this with one phone call.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Maybe there, but not here...not everyone in the US has one.  Many people 
>> who live in the US don't, even though they're legal.
> 
>   I can't understand how that can work. The most prominent problem which
> comes to mind is: How do they collect taxes if they don't know who is who?

The IRS (Internal Revenue Service) of course has your SSN, as does anyone 
with the authority to collect taxes.  (Interestingly, it's called "Social 
security number" because it was originally only to be used to collect social 
security, not even other federal or state taxes.)

Private companies (other than your employer of course) don't necessarily get 
your SSN unless you give it to them. Most places that key their database by 
your SSN have mechanisms to support people who don't have or refuse to 
provide their SSN.

> How can employers inform the government who is working for them if the
> employees have no ID? 

Only taxpayers actually need an SSN. You don't get it "at birth". You get it 
before you get a paying job. It's not a national ID number, it's a taxpayer 
ID number.

>   That might sound a bit draconian when said like that, but I have yet
> to feel that being abused.

It was certainly abused during various wars, by both the USA and Germany 
during WWII, for example. Not to invoke godwin or anything...

>   To somewhat compensate, Finland has very strict privacy laws (probably
> much stricter than in most other countries). 

We lack that here, which is part of the problem. And even when there are 
specific laws, our government is pretty good at ignoring them anyway. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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>> Now, if I could just learn to not be terrified of all human beings,
>> maybe I'd be getting somewhere! :-}
> 
> You're making progress.  :-)

I am?

Right now I'm just miserable because she hasn't contacted me yet... :-(

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:32:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Now, if I could just learn to not be terrified of all human beings,
>>> maybe I'd be getting somewhere! :-}
>> 
>> You're making progress.  :-)
> 
> I am?

Yes, you are.  You're asking and talking to people, that's a huge step 
forward.

> Right now I'm just miserable because she hasn't contacted me yet... :-(

Now we need you to learn patience. :-)  You could always drop in the 
restaurant for dinner one night....

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Darren's summed it up pretty well....

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:44:36 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Maybe there, but not here...not everyone in the US has one.  Many
>> people who live in the US don't, even though they're legal.
> 
>   I can't understand how that can work. The most prominent problem which
> comes to mind is: How do they collect taxes if they don't know who is
> who? How can employers inform the government who is working for them if
> the employees have no ID? (At least here employers have a rather strict
> duty to have very accurate paperwork on who is working and every single
> cent is accounted for and notified, mostly for taxing and insurance
> purposes but also for other things, such as ensuring employee rights and
> such.)

No SSN != No ID in the US.  But most (not all) IDs are issued by the 
state and not by the federal government.

For foreign workers, for example, there are other ways and methods used 
to report that information.

>> > as it's an unambiguous unique identifier (and the government has your
>> > data associated with it).
> 
>> Over here we tend to be suspicious (some would say "overly suspicious")
>> of the idea of a national identity database.  Governments around the
>> world have demonstrated that they're not terribly good at keeping data
>> that should secure secured.  Though the most recent examples I can
>> think of are from he UK....
> 
>   One can be suspicious of a government that wants to keep accurate
> information on every single citizen of the country, but I really can't
> understand how a country can work without that. The Finnish government
> (and I'm sure it's the same for many other countries) knows the exact
> number of Finnish citizens, and their basic info (date of birth, etc.)

We do a census every 10 years to find out how many people there are 
here. :-)

Looking at my credit report (not managed by the government but by three 
separate reporting bureaus), they all don't have the correct address for 
me.  But they still track my credit without too much trouble - and I know 
that, because I check it at least monthly.

>   That might sound a bit draconian when said like that, but I have yet
> to feel that being abused. 

You're not in the US.  Finland has what I certainly would consider to be 
reasonable privacy laws.

> It seems to work quite well. One situation
> where the government knowing who you are works pretty well is in, as the
> name implies, social security. For example if you break a leg, you just
> go to the hospital, tell your social security number, and they fix you
> up for free. No hassle.

Ah, socialism that works. :-)  Seriously, I admire the health care system 
you guys have, and wish we had something similar instead of the crappy 
insurance-based system we have now.  Granted, having insurance is better 
than not.

Out of curiosity, how much of your salary goes to taxes?  Over here it's 
typically in the 30-40% range.

>   Naturally phonebooks are an exception to this. But even with them you
> always specifically choose whether you want your number on the public
> phone book or not when you create a phone contract. (And later you can
> change this with one phone call.)

We do have an option to be unlisted, but that doesn't stop abuses.  Right 
now there seems to be a dearth of telemarketing companies that skirt the 
DNC list rules - like saying they're calling to do a survey (legal) when 
the point of the survey is to see if you want to buy something (not 
legal).  Or political/charity organizations.  Or people who just refuse 
to identify who they're with or play by the rules.

We had one the other day who insisted that they were legally required to 
NOT disclose the name of the charity they were calling on behalf of, 
except to the named person they were calling (they claimed my wife had 
"done business with" the charity in the past).  

I had another who just identified himself by name, and when I asked who 
he was calling on behalf of, he gave me his name again and asked if my 
wife was home.  I asked a second time and in a more demanding tone who he 
was calling on behalf of, and he said something like "national 
registry" (I actually couldn't make it out).  I told him to take us off 
their calling list - which they're required by law to do if you ask - and 
he actually started to argue before giving up, saying OK and hanging up.

It doesn't help that there are certain categories of numbers that we 
cannot block at all.  We have to make a note in our phone's electronic 
phonebook to have it display the note when hey call (as if it were the 
caller ID).

Jim

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>>>> Now, if I could just learn to not be terrified of all human beings,
>>>> maybe I'd be getting somewhere! :-}
>>> You're making progress.  :-)
>> I am?
> 
> Yes, you are.  You're asking and talking to people, that's a huge step 
> forward.

On Tuesday it felt like a huge step. But...

<Smith>What good is a phone number if it doesn't do anything</Smith>

>> Right now I'm just miserable because she hasn't contacted me yet... :-(
> 
> Now we need you to learn patience. :-)  You could always drop in the 
> restaurant for dinner one night....

I intend to.

...but I'd like to avoid looking like I'm stalking her. o_O

Patience is one thing, but what if it's not really her number? What if 
she doesn't remember who I am? What if she just doesn't want to talk to me?

But... nobody *forced* her to give me the number, so...?

AAARRGH! I'm so *confused*! >_<

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:12:10 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>>> Now, if I could just learn to not be terrified of all human beings,
>>>>> maybe I'd be getting somewhere! :-}
>>>> You're making progress.  :-)
>>> I am?
>> 
>> Yes, you are.  You're asking and talking to people, that's a huge step
>> forward.
> 
> On Tuesday it felt like a huge step. But...

It was, and it is.

> <Smith>What good is a phone number if it doesn't do anything</Smith>

Sometimes life gets in the way.  Maybe someone in her family got sick or 
died.  Who knows?  Try not to assume it's because it's you.

>>> Right now I'm just miserable because she hasn't contacted me yet...
>>> :-(
>> 
>> Now we need you to learn patience. :-)  You could always drop in the
>> restaurant for dinner one night....
> 
> I intend to.
> 
> ...but I'd like to avoid looking like I'm stalking her. o_O

Certainly, but if it's a restaurant you like going to for the food, then 
just go for the food.  If she's working that night, she is, and if she 
isn't, oh well, at least you got a good meal. :-)

> Patience is one thing, but what if it's not really her number? What if
> she doesn't remember who I am? What if she just doesn't want to talk to
> me?

You can what-if yourself to death.  So stop it.  Just be relaxed and 
groovy and see what happens.  And keep on dancin'.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Ladies and gentlemen, tonight I went out for a meal. It turns out that 
> my waitress was quite cute, and definitely very friendly. Long story 
> short: I now have her phone number.

Well, it _is_ her number. Unfortunately it's not going to do me much good.

I suggested to her that maybe we could meet up today. Her response was 
that she's trying to "sort things out" with her boyfriend so it's 
"probably not a good idea".

To summarise:

1. She already has a boyfriend, so she's not going to improve my 
lovelife (e.g., by allowing me to *have* one...)

2. She's not going to hang out with me either, so she's not going to 
improve my social life.

*sigh* So I now have another name to add to the list of people I 
sometimes contact electronically but almost never get to actually meet 
up with. Yay, me.

What a disappointing result...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> 1. She already has a boyfriend, so she's not going to improve my 
> lovelife (e.g., by allowing me to *have* one...)

What, a boyfriend?

(you walked right into that)

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

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On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:38:35 +0200, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> 1. She already has a boyfriend, so she's not going to improve my  
>> lovelife (e.g., by allowing me to *have* one...)
>
> What, a boyfriend?

http://basicinstructions.net/?p=322


-- 
FE

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
>> Ladies and gentlemen, tonight I went out for a meal. It turns out that 
>> my waitress was quite cute, and definitely very friendly. Long story 
>> short: I now have her phone number.
> 
> Well, it _is_ her number. Unfortunately it's not going to do me much good.
> 
> I suggested to her that maybe we could meet up today. Her response was 
> that she's trying to "sort things out" with her boyfriend so it's 
> "probably not a good idea".
> 
> To summarise:
> 
> 1. She already has a boyfriend, so she's not going to improve my 
> lovelife (e.g., by allowing me to *have* one...)

Besides, would you really want to be boyfriend of a girl who gives her 
phone number to any numbface in the cafeteria? :P

not that it's that uncommon!

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> http://basicinstructions.net/?p=322

Gaaaaahahahahaaaaaaaaargh!! >_<

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nemesis wrote:

> Besides, would you really want to be boyfriend of a girl who gives her 
> phone number to any numbface in the cafeteria? :P

Maybe she only gave it to me because I'm *special*? :-P

Post a reply to this message

Invisible escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
> 
>> Besides, would you really want to be boyfriend of a girl who gives her 
>> phone number to any numbface in the cafeteria? :P
> 
> Maybe she only gave it to me because I'm *special*? :-P

She knew you know Haskell? :P

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I suggested to her that maybe we could meet up today. Her response was 
> that she's trying to "sort things out" with her boyfriend so it's 
> "probably not a good idea".

  That sounds like girl code language for something else...

  Anyways, you know what they say: If at first you don't succeed...

  Next time you'll be more fluent because you already have experience.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> I suggested to her that maybe we could meet up today. Her response was 
>> that she's trying to "sort things out" with her boyfriend so it's 
>> "probably not a good idea".
> 
>   That sounds like girl code language for something else...

Sounds like "My boyfriend is being a pain in the butt, but not as much a 
pain in the butt as finding an entirely new boyfriend."

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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Darren New escreveu:
> Warp wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> I suggested to her that maybe we could meet up today. Her response 
>>> was that she's trying to "sort things out" with her boyfriend so it's 
>>> "probably not a good idea".
>>
>>   That sounds like girl code language for something else...
> 
> Sounds like "My boyfriend is being a pain in the butt..."

She should try vaseline.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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>> Sounds like "My boyfriend is being a pain in the butt..."
> 
> She should try vaseline.

LMAO!

No pun... ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> I suggested to her that maybe we could meet up today. Her response was 
>> that she's trying to "sort things out" with her boyfriend so it's 
>> "probably not a good idea".
> 
>   That sounds like girl code language for something else...

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Does it make any difference to me? Not really.

>   Anyways, you know what they say: If at first you don't succeed...
> 
>   Next time you'll be more fluent because you already have experience.

Well... I keep feeling all depressed because I suck at talking to people 
and stuff. But you know what? One week I spent 3 hours chatting to an 
old friend. And the next week I chatted to a complete stranger and even 
got her phone number. That doesn't sound like failure, that sounds 
like... well, SUCCESS, actually. So maybe I *don't* suck at talking to 
people - maybe it's just that the people I usually have around me are 
arseholes?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:

> Sounds like "My boyfriend is being a pain in the butt, but not as much a 
> pain in the butt as finding an entirely new boyfriend."

Ooo, maybe I could become that friend she trusts and tells all her 
problems to, but never actually dates? :-S

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
> Well... I keep feeling all depressed because I suck at talking to people 
> and stuff. But you know what? One week I spent 3 hours chatting to an 
> old friend. And the next week I chatted to a complete stranger and even 
> got her phone number. That doesn't sound like failure, that sounds 
> like... well, SUCCESS, actually. So maybe I *don't* suck at talking to 
> people - maybe it's just that the people I usually have around me are 
> arseholes?

Most probably, yes.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:03:12 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> Sounds like "My boyfriend is being a pain in the butt, but not as much
>> a pain in the butt as finding an entirely new boyfriend."
> 
> Ooo, maybe I could become that friend she trusts and tells all her
> problems to, but never actually dates? :-S

Maybe.  That can be educational, but also can be very frustrating.  
BTDTGTTS.

Jim

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:02:32 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> So maybe I *don't* suck at talking to people - maybe it's just that the
> people I usually have around me are arseholes?

Result!  What have we been trying to tell you for the last how-many-years?

Jim

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>> Ooo, maybe I could become that friend she trusts and tells all her
>> problems to, but never actually dates? :-S
> 
> Maybe.  That can be educational, but also can be very frustrating.  

Yes. And given the way my life works, that's where I suspect I'll end 
up. :-/

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> So maybe I *don't* suck at talking to people - maybe it's just that the
>> people I usually have around me are arseholes?
> 
> Result!  What have we been trying to tell you for the last how-many-years?

That I can't spell?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:45:22 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Ooo, maybe I could become that friend she trusts and tells all her
>>> problems to, but never actually dates? :-S
>> 
>> Maybe.  That can be educational, but also can be very frustrating.
> 
> Yes. And given the way my life works, that's where I suspect I'll end
> up. :-/

Well, if anything we can always count on you being pessimistic about 
life. ;-)

Jim

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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:45:41 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> So maybe I *don't* suck at talking to people - maybe it's just that
>>> the people I usually have around me are arseholes?
>> 
>> Result!  What have we been trying to tell you for the last
>> how-many-years?
> 
> That I can't spell?

No, the other thing.... ;-)

Jim

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>> Yes. And given the way my life works, that's where I suspect I'll end
>> up. :-/
> 
> Well, if anything we can always count on you being pessimistic about 
> life. ;-)

Well that's not entirely true. As you may have noticed, when something 
actually goes right for once, I suddenly become very optimistic. 
(Perhaps excessively so.) It's just that for the most part, my life is a 
failure, so usually I'm pessimistic.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:13:41 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Yes. And given the way my life works, that's where I suspect I'll end
>>> up. :-/
>> 
>> Well, if anything we can always count on you being pessimistic about
>> life. ;-)
> 
> Well that's not entirely true. As you may have noticed, when something
> actually goes right for once, I suddenly become very optimistic.

You need to make it less "sudden" and more a way of being.  While it is 
true that an optimist is likely to be disappointed and a pessimist 
surprised, having a more positive outlook tends to be better for one's 
mental health.

> (Perhaps excessively so.) It's just that for the most part, my life is a
> failure, so usually I'm pessimistic.

See, you need to stop with statements like "my life is a failure".  
That's what we've been saying.  And I won't bore you with things like 
"you've got a roof over your head, you eat regularly, and you've got a 
paying job - and that's much better than a lot of people have" because 
that's not generally helpful.

But at the same time, you maybe should admit once in a while that while 
you think your life sucks, compared to people whose lives really suck, 
you don't have it so bad.

Jim

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>> Well that's not entirely true. As you may have noticed, when something
>> actually goes right for once, I suddenly become very optimistic.
> 
> You need to make it less "sudden" and more a way of being.

Easier said than done.

> having a more positive outlook tends to be better for one's 
> mental health.

I'm not disagreeing.

>> It's just that for the most part, my life is a
>> failure, so usually I'm pessimistic.
> 
> See, you need to stop with statements like "my life is a failure".  
> That's what we've been saying.

And what *I* have been saying is that when you repeatedly try to do 
things and are greeted only with failure, it makes it really, *really* 
hard to remain positive.

Most people fail sometimes, and succeed sometimes. Unfortunately, I fail 
almost *all* the time. This is extremely depressing.

(That's probably why I get so hyperactive on the rare occasions where 
something actually works...)

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On Fri, 01 May 2009 09:44:45 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Well that's not entirely true. As you may have noticed, when something
>>> actually goes right for once, I suddenly become very optimistic.
>> 
>> You need to make it less "sudden" and more a way of being.
> 
> Easier said than done.

Nobody said life was easy - there are things one has to work at.

>>> It's just that for the most part, my life is a failure, so usually I'm
>>> pessimistic.
>> 
>> See, you need to stop with statements like "my life is a failure".
>> That's what we've been saying.
> 
> And what *I* have been saying is that when you repeatedly try to do
> things and are greeted only with failure, it makes it really, *really*
> hard to remain positive.

Oscar Wilde (I think) once said something like "experience is what you 
get when you don't get what you want".  You do seem to learn from the bad 
and you don't give up (as evidenced by your recent success in getting a 
phone number), so that's a good thing.  That's something to be positive 
about.

> Most people fail sometimes, and succeed sometimes. Unfortunately, I fail
> almost *all* the time. This is extremely depressing.

You *feel* you fail almost all the time.  That's not the same as actually 
failing all the time.  Count the success - as in this case - of getting 
the phone number, and having the courage to ask for it.  That's a win.  
The outcome, while clearly not positive - look at that as a secondary.  A 
step in the right direction is getting over the shy enough to talk to 
someone you only normally talk to in her professional capacity.

What it looks like from here is that you're looking at the entire 
sequence of events as a total epic failure.  It's not.  There are small 
successes in there and things you should be proud of having done.  So it 
didn't work out with this one - ultimately, so what?  The thing is you 
took a chance, and taking chances is what life is all about.  That's a 
win no matter how you slice it.

> (That's probably why I get so hyperactive on the rare occasions where
> something actually works...)

That's a perfectly reasonable reaction.  People get excited when things 
go their way or have a positive outcome.

Jim

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> Nobody said life was easy - there are things one has to work at.

As I say, most other people have folks around them to turn to for 
support and encouragement. I don't really have that.

>> Most people fail sometimes, and succeed sometimes. Unfortunately, I fail
>> almost *all* the time. This is extremely depressing.
> 
> You *feel* you fail almost all the time.  That's not the same as actually 
> failing all the time.  Count the success - as in this case - of getting 
> the phone number, and having the courage to ask for it.  That's a win.  

Sure. It is. But one win doesn't make up for a lifetime of failure.

(What I need to do is figure out the next step. In various areas. But if 
I could do that... I would have already taken the next step, several 
years ago.)

> What it looks like from here is that you're looking at the entire 
> sequence of events as a total epic failure.  It's not.  There are small 
> successes in there and things you should be proud of having done.  So it 
> didn't work out with this one - ultimately, so what?  The thing is you 
> took a chance, and taking chances is what life is all about.  That's a 
> win no matter how you slice it.

I'm quite happy with how it went with this girl. What's depressing the 
hell out of me is my repeated attempts to get a job are getting me 
nowhere, my repeated attempts to have a social life are getting me 
nowhere, my repeated attempts to enjoy myself aren't working... it's 
just extremely demotivating when all you experience is failure.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Fri, 01 May 2009 19:43:44 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>> Nobody said life was easy - there are things one has to work at.
> 
> As I say, most other people have folks around them to turn to for
> support and encouragement. I don't really have that.

You have that here.  Sure, it's not the same as having it in meatspace, 
but we actually do exist.

>>> Most people fail sometimes, and succeed sometimes. Unfortunately, I
>>> fail almost *all* the time. This is extremely depressing.
>> 
>> You *feel* you fail almost all the time.  That's not the same as
>> actually failing all the time.  Count the success - as in this case -
>> of getting the phone number, and having the courage to ask for it. 
>> That's a win.
> 
> Sure. It is. But one win doesn't make up for a lifetime of failure.

It's not "one win".  It's one of several wins.  You just keep looking at 
the results and thinking that all the components that led up to that 
point must also be total failures.

> (What I need to do is figure out the next step. In various areas. But if
> I could do that... I would have already taken the next step, several
> years ago.)

You did the next step - to try to make contact.  You can't control the 
way people will react or the things going on in their lives that may 
change their minds about spending time with you.

>> What it looks like from here is that you're looking at the entire
>> sequence of events as a total epic failure.  It's not.  There are small
>> successes in there and things you should be proud of having done.  So
>> it didn't work out with this one - ultimately, so what?  The thing is
>> you took a chance, and taking chances is what life is all about. 
>> That's a win no matter how you slice it.
> 
> I'm quite happy with how it went with this girl. What's depressing the
> hell out of me is my repeated attempts to get a job are getting me
> nowhere, my repeated attempts to have a social life are getting me
> nowhere, my repeated attempts to enjoy myself aren't working... it's
> just extremely demotivating when all you experience is failure.

Like I said, you're not constantly failing, you're taking small steps.

You go out and dance, don't you?  That's a social activity, and you sure 
don't sound like you're failing there.

You seem to enjoy your music immensely.  That sure doesn't sound like a 
failure to me.

I remember several months ago (maybe even a year ago) you talked about 
meeting with one of your neighbors and having a wonderful time.  Have you 
gotten together with them again?  Have you suggested maybe going for 
drinks and a visit?

As for the job search, what have you done in the last few weeks?  If I 
worked in a place that was as problematic as you've described your 
office, I wouldn't rest until I had found something else, no matter how 
many job applications I'd submitted and been rejected for.  Hell, I *did* 
that.  I told you about my intolerable job (the one I quit with nothing 
to go to and left myself unemployed *on my own* and *away from family and 
most of my friends* for three months) and what I did to try to find 
another job.  I was rejected for job after job - taking time off and 
instead of enjoying myself going on interviews to be told "no, you don't 
have the right certifications" or "you're overqualified for this 
position".

In spite of the continual failure to find something (and I looked for 
months before quitting the current job at the time in disgust with 
management), I kept looking.  I networked with people, and eventually 
found something.  But it didn't happen overnight, and it didn't happen 
with me sitting on my hands and going "oh poor me, my life sucks".  I was 
absolutely scared shitless that I was going to lose my home (and I nearly 
did at that).

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