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...showing a member of staff how to operate a piece of software when you
don't actually know how to operate it or what it's supposed to do.
(Most especially fun when the member of staff in question uses this
software every day, and has been trained in its use, and you yourself
have never used it and have not been trained on any aspect of it.)
But hey, I'm sure people probably think that a car mechanic can fix any
imaginable device as long as it's purely mechanical too...
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Invisible wrote:
> But hey, I'm sure people probably think that a car mechanic can fix any
> imaginable device as long as it's purely mechanical too...
No, but a mechanical engineer might be able to figure it out ;)
--
~Mike
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>> But hey, I'm sure people probably think that a car mechanic can fix
>> any imaginable device as long as it's purely mechanical too...
>
> No, but a mechanical engineer might be able to figure it out ;)
Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
engineer! :-D
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> Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
> engineer! :-D
Sadly the case :-(
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>> Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
>> engineer! :-D
>
> Sadly the case :-(
You *know* it's true! ;-)
Still, I went on an IT course that was labelled "HND/BSc Computer
Science". ;-)
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Invisible wrote:
> ...showing a member of staff how to operate a piece of software when you
> don't actually know how to operate it or what it's supposed to do.
>
> (Most especially fun when the member of staff in question uses this
> software every day, and has been trained in its use, and you yourself
> have never used it and have not been trained on any aspect of it.)
In other words, it's a wetware issue. ;-)
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scott wrote:
>> Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
>> engineer! :-D
>
> Sadly the case :-(
>
Far from it ...
--
~Mike
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>>> Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
>>> engineer! :-D
>>
>> Sadly the case :-(
>
> Far from it ...
No, see, most people *do* think that terms sounding vaguely similar in
fact refer to the same thing.
For example, most people would probably agree what "pharmacutical
analyst" and "chemical engineer" amount to the same thing. (Which is, of
course, completely false.) Most people would similarly believe that
"electrical engineer" and "staff electrician" are the same thing. And
the list goes on...
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:16:49 -0600, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Invisible wrote:
>
>> But hey, I'm sure people probably think that a car mechanic can fix any
>> imaginable device as long as it's purely mechanical too...
>
>No, but a mechanical engineer might be able to figure it out ;)
Maybe but it will take a time served mechanic to fix it. ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Invisible wrote:
>>>> Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
>>>> engineer! :-D
>>>
>>> Sadly the case :-(
>>
>> Far from it ...
Wow, I think I screwed up there. I meant the mechanic is far from an
engineer.
> No, see, most people *do* think that terms sounding vaguely similar in
> fact refer to the same thing.
>
> For example, most people would probably agree what "pharmacutical
> analyst" and "chemical engineer" amount to the same thing. (Which is, of
> course, completely false.) Most people would similarly believe that
> "electrical engineer" and "staff electrician" are the same thing. And
> the list goes on...
Yeah, The EE knows the theory behind what he is doing. He knows WHY you
want, for instance, equal potential on all ground connections.
The electrician simply knows that he'll get flagged if he wires the hot
wire where the neutral was supposed to go. He may even be vaguely aware
that it might pose an electrocution hazard. :)
--
~Mike
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> Wow, I think I screwed up there. I meant the mechanic is far from an
> engineer.
Oh, they *are* far apart. But the general public regards both of them as
"those weird people who somehow understand how mechanical stuff works".
> Yeah, The EE knows the theory behind what he is doing. He knows WHY you
> want, for instance, equal potential on all ground connections.
>
> The electrician simply knows that he'll get flagged if he wires the hot
> wire where the neutral was supposed to go. He may even be vaguely aware
> that it might pose an electrocution hazard. :)
And it often comes as a shock to some people that a radiochemist might
not know the neurotoxic properties of tetrododoxin, for example.
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:08:15 -0600, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>Yeah, The EE knows the theory behind what he is doing. He knows WHY you
>want, for instance, equal potential on all ground connections.
>
>The electrician simply knows that he'll get flagged if he wires the hot
>wire where the neutral was supposed to go. He may even be vaguely aware
>that it might pose an electrocution hazard. :)
A common misconception especially amongst graduates. Most of the electricians
that I've worked with could turn their hands to repairing a whole range of
equipment from instruments to power generators including the prime movers. On
the other hand I wouldn't let most EEs loose with a multimeter never mind a
screwdriver.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> A common misconception especially amongst graduates. Most of the electricians
> that I've worked with could turn their hands to repairing a whole range of
> equipment from instruments to power generators including the prime movers. On
> the other hand I wouldn't let most EEs loose with a multimeter never mind a
> screwdriver.
You haven't seen the electricians they hire to wire homes around here.
Some are downright dangerous. :)
--
~Mike
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> Still, I went on an IT course that was labelled "HND/BSc Computer
> Science". ;-)
At school we have a "Computer Science and Engineering" building a short trek
away from the "Electrical and Computer Engineering" building. The name of the
department is Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS). Not my
field, but I'm leaving soon and I still look for non-existent rooms in the
wrong building.
- Ricky
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:40:25 -0600, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>
>> A common misconception especially amongst graduates. Most of the electricians
>> that I've worked with could turn their hands to repairing a whole range of
>> equipment from instruments to power generators including the prime movers. On
>> the other hand I wouldn't let most EEs loose with a multimeter never mind a
>> screwdriver.
>
>You haven't seen the electricians they hire to wire homes around here.
>Some are downright dangerous. :)
Well, there are electricians and electricians :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
>
> Well, there are electricians and electricians :)
Got it :) The one I liked was the whole getting our apartment complex
"up to code" by installing GFCI outlets. They hired a subcontractor to
perform the work.
We now have about half a dozen (3 in the kitchen alone) that seem to
control every circuit in our home. You have to be very careful that you
don't plug something in that might trigger a GFCI breaker, or something
that would be adversely affected by the breaker tripping. The affected
outlet locations seem almost random...
In the process of doing that, they managed to break a seemingly
unrelated circuit: The lighting in the hallway (it was a 3-way switch,
So you could turn it on or off at either end...) After their handywork,
turning on the light caused it to come on dimly, then throw the breaker
on the main panel.
After our call to maintenance, who had a decent electrician still on
staff, the came out and checked out the light ... they wired the ground
hot on the light (or rather one of the switches, so that a certain
combinaion of switch positions resulted in a short, and other
combinations resulted in no light, but a hot fixture, or light and a hot
fixture). He was just thankful we never messed with the fixture. There
were other problems with their wiring, and he wasn't sure why they did
what they did...
--
~Mike
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Invisible wrote:
> ...showing a member of staff how to operate a piece of software when you
> don't actually know how to operate it or what it's supposed to do.
I just walked (on the phone) my brother thru setting up Time Machine to a
new blank zeroed-out USB drive on his Mac. Note that I'm not sure I've ever
even touched the keyboard of a Mac. :-)
> But hey, I'm sure people probably think that a car mechanic can fix any
> imaginable device as long as it's purely mechanical too...
My dad is a car mechanic. He pretty much can fix pretty much any mechanical
or electromechanical device. He fixed TVs, washing machines, vacuums,
automobiles, central heating units, built his own lawn mowers and fences and
laid his own patio, built extensions onto the house (including a door from
outside into the basement thru the basement wall), etc. Of course he
maintained all the equipment it takes to run a garage, too, like the tire
machines, alignment machines, air compressors, etc. And of course the vehicles.
Indeed, killing the termites and replacing the central heating unit was the
only things I can remember he ever hired someone to do it for him. (Well,
other than rebuilding the house when half of it burned down.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> The affected outlet locations seem almost random...
Heh. I tripped a GFCI breaker over the master bathroom sink. It wouldn't
come back on, so I replaced the breaker in the master bathroom closet. Two
days later I finally figured out that the breaker that had tripped was the
one in the garage, on the other side of the house, on the wrong floor. WTF??
I still haven't figured out what the one in the bathroom controls. Probably
the kitchen.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:40:25 -0600, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Got it :) The one I liked was the whole getting our apartment complex
>"up to code" by installing GFCI outlets. They hired a subcontractor to
>perform the work.
>
>We now have about half a dozen (3 in the kitchen alone) that seem to
>control every circuit in our home. You have to be very careful that you
>don't plug something in that might trigger a GFCI breaker, or something
>that would be adversely affected by the breaker tripping. The affected
>outlet locations seem almost random...
>
I know what you mean about RCCBs (that's what we call them here). Especially
when they are in lighting circuits they seem to increase the rate of failure of
incandescent light bulbs. In the UK all changes to domestic circuits need to be
checked by an independent inspector.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 2/9/2009 7:15 AM, Invisible wrote:
> And it often comes as a shock to some people that a radiochemist might
> not know the neurotoxic properties of tetrododoxin, for example.
Heh, we just watched "The Serpent and the Rainbow." Great scare :)
(Odd that the book was non-fiction, yet the movie was as fictional as
you can get)
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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> A common misconception especially amongst graduates. Most of the
> electricians
> that I've worked with could turn their hands to repairing a whole range of
> equipment from instruments to power generators including the prime movers.
But that is exactly what causes disasters when they don't fully understand
something. Most of the time, sure, it will be fine, but one time they will
try to turn their hand to something that they are not trained in "because it
looks the same" and the result will be at best a broken device and at worst
fatalities.
The list is endless of Engineering disasters that were caused by people
working outside of their specialist field, for example when a construction
engineer decides to change the design of a structural engineer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
> On
> the other hand I wouldn't let most EEs loose with a multimeter never mind
> a
> screwdriver.
True, the problem is when people don't realise they are out of their depth,
most of my EE friends wouldn't even attempt to rewire a house.
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Stephen wrote:
>
> I know what you mean about RCCBs (that's what we call them here). Especially
> when they are in lighting circuits they seem to increase the rate of failure of
> incandescent light bulbs. In the UK all changes to domestic circuits need to be
> checked by an independent inspector.
>
For some reason switching power supplies and inductive loads are prone
to tripping them, I can't understand why (inductive maybe because of
power factor, switching supply, who knows...) All I know is my freezer
has a tag on the plug that says never plug into a GFCI outlet (truth:
parents did this, and noticed soon enough the freezer stopped working
before everything thawed, then it kept happening. The motor that runs
the compressor draws a lot of current, and probably doesn't have power
factor correction)
On the other hand, it was quite irritating to have the GFCI
spontaneously trip on the circuit my computer was plugged into. I
finally resorted to buying a long high-grade extension cord and finding
an unprotected outlet on the other side of the apartment (in a different
room, mind you) to plug my computer into.
Ironically, the outlet on the porch isn't GFCI protected. :-D
--
~Mike
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:21:59 +0100, "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
>> A common misconception especially amongst graduates. Most of the
>> electricians
>> that I've worked with could turn their hands to repairing a whole range of
>> equipment from instruments to power generators including the prime movers.
>
>But that is exactly what causes disasters when they don't fully understand
>something. Most of the time, sure, it will be fine, but one time they will
>try to turn their hand to something that they are not trained in "because it
>looks the same" and the result will be at best a broken device and at worst
>fatalities.
>
>The list is endless of Engineering disasters that were caused by people
>working outside of their specialist field, for example when a construction
>engineer decides to change the design of a structural engineer:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
>
I can't agree more but we were talking about repairing things, I think. There is
a world of difference between design, construction and maintenance.
>> On
>> the other hand I wouldn't let most EEs loose with a multimeter never mind
>> a
>> screwdriver.
>
>True, the problem is when people don't realise they are out of their depth,
>most of my EE friends wouldn't even attempt to rewire a house.
>
Nor would I because most often you don't know what you don't know ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> I can't agree more but we were talking about repairing things, I think. There is
> a world of difference between design, construction and maintenance.
And *I* was talking about normal people not appreciating this
difference. ;-)
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Invisible wrote:
>>> But hey, I'm sure people probably think that a car mechanic can fix
>>> any imaginable device as long as it's purely mechanical too...
>>
>> No, but a mechanical engineer might be able to figure it out ;)
>
> Now, see, most people would think a car mechanic *is* a mechanical
> engineer! :-D
better yet
when a car mechanic believes that he *is* a mechanical engineer...
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> I can't agree more but we were talking about repairing things, I think.
> There is
> a world of difference between design, construction and maintenance.
Of course, but if you start to try and maintain something that you are not
trained to, you never know what special things you need to worry about.
Real life personal experiences: 1 year old car goes to authorised dealer
for first service, mechanic who is not familiar with new car design does the
service, next day the brake pedal goes to the floor as we are trying to
stop. Turns out with this new car design there is a special procedure for
bleeding the brakes which is different from previous models, as we got one
of the very first versions of this car I guess the mechanic had never worked
on this car before and just assumed he could do the same as previous ones.
Or the mechanic who tried to jack up my dad's car with a trolley jack at
some random point (and not at the jacking points) - if it weren't for the
fact that my dad was watching and screamed at him it would have surely
resulted in several bent parts of the space frame.
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scott wrote:
>
> Or the mechanic who tried to jack up my dad's car with a trolley jack at
> some random point (and not at the jacking points) - if it weren't for
> the fact that my dad was watching and screamed at him it would have
> surely resulted in several bent parts of the space frame.
>
I always cringe when I see some mechanics jack a car with a portable
floor jack.. Invariably they simply choose where they want to jack a car
up.
--
~Mike
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:12:52 -0600, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>For some reason switching power supplies and inductive loads are prone
>to tripping them, I can't understand why (inductive maybe because of
>power factor, switching supply, who knows...) All I know is my freezer
>has a tag on the plug that says never plug into a GFCI outlet (truth:
>parents did this, and noticed soon enough the freezer stopped working
>before everything thawed, then it kept happening. The motor that runs
>the compressor draws a lot of current, and probably doesn't have power
>factor correction)
>
I think that you must be right about the inductive loads. I don't have as many
problems now since changing to energy saving light bulbs.
>On the other hand, it was quite irritating to have the GFCI
>spontaneously trip on the circuit my computer was plugged into. I
>finally resorted to buying a long high-grade extension cord and finding
>an unprotected outlet on the other side of the apartment (in a different
>room, mind you) to plug my computer into.
>
I ended buying individual filtering circuits for all my HiFi components and what
a difference that has made to the sound quality. :)
>Ironically, the outlet on the porch isn't GFCI protected. :-D
WTF! Double indemnity outside the home? :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:02:25 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>
>> I can't agree more but we were talking about repairing things, I think. There is
>> a world of difference between design, construction and maintenance.
>
>And *I* was talking about normal people not appreciating this
>difference. ;-)
I took that as granted. I've often been mistaken for an electrician much to my
chagrin.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:29:29 +0100, "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
>> I can't agree more but we were talking about repairing things, I think.
>> There is
>> a world of difference between design, construction and maintenance.
>
>Of course, but if you start to try and maintain something that you are not
>trained to, you never know what special things you need to worry about.
That worried me when I worked offshore on the semi submersibles as a contractor.
I was expected to work on equipment I had never seen before and sometimes the
manuals were in German or Norwegian. B*gg*r that for a game of soldiers!
Safety/Money - Money/Safety, "Just fix it!"
--
Regards
Stephen
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Ironically, the outlet on the porch isn't GFCI protected. :-D
You can fix that yourself, you know. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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