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With the recent gaming-related threads, I thought about creating one
myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to try?
Maybe an older game which most people have forgotten, which is still today
as great as back then? Or a game which didn't get too much media attention
but is actually incredibly cool?
Here are some of the games I own, which I have liked quite a lot:
- Desperados: Wanted Dead or Alive, and its much later sequel,
Desperados 2: Cooper's revenge.
The first game is so old that it's actually 2D (well, old-style 3D
in isometric perspective). It's a bit like a real-time strategy, except
that it concentrates on puzzles rather than on resource gathering and
troops building. The problems to solve can be quite contrived, and there's
seldom one single correct solution.
The sequel is in 3D, but continues with the same basic idea.
- Grim Fandango. Every gaming website always has this game on their top
list of best games in history, praising it for its ingenuity and writing,
yet it seems that people still don't know it. It's a very old game, but
still works well.
- The Longest Journey. Old point-and-click adventure, which is rather good,
and refreshingly different from the Lucasarts' games.
There's also a more recent sequel (apparently intended to be the first
part of a trilogy), which was quite ok, I guess.
- Beyond Good & Evil. A very "consoleish" game (published, not surprisingly,
for game consoles but also for Windows), which is rather good, but went
mostly unnoticed due to bad timing (other contemporary titles overshadowed
it completely, and it got very little attention). Maybe not one of the
greatest games of all times, but definitely enjoyable.
- The Prince of Persia "sands of time trilogy". You should get the trilogy
box (named "Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones, special edition") rather
cheap nowadays, so you should definitely check it if you haven't played
the games.
- Call of Juarez. A more conventional first-person shooter, but with a
great story.
- Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault. I actually bought a box with three MoH
games (Allied Assault and Airborne), but this is the one which I liked the
most. Conventional first-person shooter, maybe not as story-heavy as Call
of Juarez, but cool.
On the PSP we have:
- Final Fantasy I and II. These are basically the original FF1 and FF2
for the NES, but remade for the PSP with better graphics and audio, and
some extras (such as bonus dungeons). Purely 2D tile-based graphics, but
they still succeed in being more addictive than most modern 3D games I
have played. If you like jRPGs and own a PSP, these are a must have.
- Tales of Eternia. If you like jRPGs, you'll like this one too. A more
modern jRPG.
- Patapon. The idea of the game sounds ridiculous, but the game is
surprisingly addictive.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> - The Longest Journey. Old point-and-click adventure, which is rather good,
> and refreshingly different from the Lucasarts' games.
I played this through. For a point-and-click adventure, it's really quite
lame. I guess if you're more interested in the story and scenery than
playing the game, it can be OK. But it's more like clicking your way
through a novel than it is playing an "Adventure" style game. There's no
choices to make, you can't do things out of order, and areas open up and
close off without any real sense to why (like, once you've been to the
museum, you can't go back).
For example, at one point, you wind up in the posh space-port after crawling
thru messiness. There's a clothes store there, and if you try to go in, it
says "I can't afford posh clothes like that." So you go downstairs, talk to
the ticket agent, who tells you you're too messy to get on the space
shuttle, at which point *then* you can go upstairs and buy clothes. Very
annoying, that. The whole game is like that - you can't pick up the tools
you need before you run into the lock you need to open, etc.
Funny in places, tho. A decent story if it was so drawn out. You spend most
of your time waiting to get thru conversations and such, with "next step"
almost always being obvious.
Better than a lot of the other games in the genre, I'll grant that too.
Myst and Riven (and to a lesser extent the sequels) are the best, obviously.
I would add Thief 1 and 2, Deus Ex, and (so far as I've gone thru it)
Bioshock as games that allow a lot of latitude in how you accomplish your
goals, with lots of replayability.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> Myst and Riven (and to a lesser extent the sequels) are the best, obviously.
I found Riven to be a bit too difficult to be completely enjoyable.
The hints are often really obscure, and most of the time you just wander
around trying random things, to no avail. It can get expasperating. In fact,
I got stuck at some point so badly that I couldn't finish the game.
I still own the CDs, though. Maybe I should try it again sometime.
I wonder if it will work on Windows XP.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> With the recent gaming-related threads, I thought about creating one
> myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to try?
> Maybe an older game which most people have forgotten, which is still today
> as great as back then? Or a game which didn't get too much media attention
> but is actually incredibly cool?
I don't play games very often any more, but here's a few that I've enjoyed:
Cave Story:
Freeware download. A pixel-art side scrolling platformer in the style
of some SNES games. Very well made and a lot of fun.
I Wanna Be the Guy:
Freeware download from http://kayin.pyoko.org/iwbtg/
Known for being almost impossibly difficult, and it's a bit glitchy too.
I can't quite describe why I enjoy playing it so much, but it does
have lots of nice references to old-school console games.
Chrono Trigger:
An RPG for the SNES, you can find a rom for an emulator pretty easily,
or buy it used if you still own the console.
Monkey Island (series):
Old PC game. Gameplay is ehhh, but the writing is top-notch and very funny.
Katamari Damacy:
Available on most modern consoles. Too weird not to like.
My brother swears by Dwarf Fortress (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/)
which is a free ASCII-graphics game in which you attempt to build, well,
a dwarven fortress. Apparently the depth of the interactions you can
see in this game is almost unparalleled, to the point where it's a
common practice to post stories about what happened in the game. See
http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Stories for a list of short
stories, or http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Boatmurdered/intro.html for a
hilarious story of a game played by a group of people (you probably
don't need to have played the game to enjoy it).
I've also enjoyed playing World of Goo a bit recently, and it makes a
relatively easy but still quite enjoyable puzzle game. You can download
it for $20 if you're interested.
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Myst and Riven (and to a lesser extent the sequels) are the best, obviously.
>
> I found Riven to be a bit too difficult to be completely enjoyable.
> The hints are often really obscure, and most of the time you just wander
> around trying random things, to no avail. It can get expasperating. In fact,
> I got stuck at some point so badly that I couldn't finish the game.
I got stuck a couple of times, often because I couldn't figure out what in
the scene was a button. (Like, the button to call the cable car outside the
temple was completely non-obvious to me, or I was pushing it in the wrong
place, or something.)
One of the things I like about those games is that you can say "Hmmm... I
need to get over *there*... And there's steps up *here*... and a path *that*
way... so I must need to get behind *that* rock to find the entrance." You
can count on the 3D-ness making enough sense that you can find what you're
looking for.
But yes, Riven definitely had more subtle clues, and more non-obvious
places-you-had-to-click than the other games. I think I got stuck three or
four times and had to take a break for a few days or a couple weeks before I
realized what I was doing wrong.
The other games were more obviously "puzzle" games - you knew which key you
were looking for, or what parts you had to put together to make something
go, or which map you had to find. Riven was more "real world" IIRC.
> I still own the CDs, though. Maybe I should try it again sometime.
> I wonder if it will work on Windows XP.
It does. I don't remember if you need to install it strangely, but I played
it more recently than I gave up on Win98. Thief requires a command-line
switch to install on NT-class machines, telling it to ignore that NT doesn't
have DX.
If you pick it up again and get stuck, feel free to ask for a hint. I'll try
to offer one that's minimally revealing. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Kevin Wampler wrote:
> Katamari Damacy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT9SvWGOt24
I loved the commercial, but try to figure out what it's advertising before
you get to the end. Hint: it's not advertising a video game. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Darren New wrote:
> Kevin Wampler wrote:
>> Katamari Damacy:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT9SvWGOt24
>
> I loved the commercial, but try to figure out what it's advertising
> before you get to the end. Hint: it's not advertising a video game. :-)
I have actually seen this before (so no fair on my guessing) at one of
the siggraph animation festivals. I loved it then and I still love the
commercial.
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:498ca833$1@news.povray.org...
> Warp wrote:
> > - The Longest Journey. Old point-and-click adventure, which is rather
good,
> > and refreshingly different from the Lucasarts' games.
> I played this through. For a point-and-click adventure, it's really quite
> lame.
Speaking of point and click adventure games, really the only one worth
playing was DoTT, IMO.
> Myst and Riven (and to a lesser extent the sequels) are the best,
obviously.
Myst series seemed utterly boring to me. With a storyline that is sterile,
alien and convoluted, and puzzles that are artificial , I never understood
what the appeal was. Then again, I've never been a "gamer", in that most I
can play is 1/2 hr or so at a sitting, and to mentally and physically relax,
not as a second job. For similar demographics, I guess games that are more
like sitcoms than films are more appealing.
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somebody wrote:
> Myst series seemed utterly boring to me. With a storyline that is sterile,
> alien and convoluted, and puzzles that are artificial , I never understood
> what the appeal was. Then again, I've never been a "gamer", in that most I
> can play is 1/2 hr or so at a sitting, and to mentally and physically relax,
> not as a second job. For similar demographics, I guess games that are more
> like sitcoms than films are more appealing.
Did you play Myst shortly after it came out or later on? I recall the
the technology rather stunning when it came out, but has since been long
surpassed by other games, so that might play into your assessment.
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Warp wrote:
> With the recent gaming-related threads, I thought about creating one
> myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to try?
> Maybe an older game which most people have forgotten, which is still today
> as great as back then? Or a game which didn't get too much media attention
> but is actually incredibly cool?
I'm sure you meant relatively recent games, i.e. within the last 10
years at least. However, I can't resist wheeling this out, probably
utterly unheard of to anyone outside the UK (including the computer it
ran on).
The single computer game I have most ever enjoyed playing is: "Exile"
for the BBC Micro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_(arcade_adventure)
If you never played games on a platform this old then it will probably
hold no interest for you, compared with modern systems. However, I know
that many people who frequent this server have a few years behind them,
so... maybe... someone will have heard of it, or even played it!
:)
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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> The single computer game I have most ever enjoyed playing is: "Exile"
> for the BBC Micro.
There was also a great game I played on TRS-80 Model I machines. I don't
remember what it was called, but it involved a number of star systems
various distances apart, and you trying to take over most or all of them.
You could build (say) warships on planet Alpha, raise an army on planet
Beta, then ship them both off to planet Gamma to take over. The fun part was
you'd have to figure out how far apart the planets were and account for
travel time as well as construction time. If you could enlist three ship's
worth of troops a year and build one ship a year, and it took 20 years to
get from alpha to gamma and 10 years to get from alpha to beta and 15 to get
from beta to gamma, you had to figure out when to start building ships and
when to start sending them, and account for your own travel time too.
Plus you could buy and sell stuff, raising money so you could take over
governments and stuff too. I think there were actually multiple games, one
where you're a trader, one where you're a general, and one where you're a
government or some such.
Low-res graphics, basically dots for stars with labels next to them. But
lots of fun for that sort of thing.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Darren New wrote:
> There was also a great game I played on TRS-80 Model I machines. I don't
> remember what it was called,
Ah. Apparently it was called "Galaxy".
http://www.mobygames.com/game/galaxy
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Warp wrote:
> myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to try?
Sure, read ahead...
> - Grim Fandango. Every gaming website always has this game on their top
> list of best games in history, praising it for its ingenuity and writing,
> yet it seems that people still don't know it. It's a very old game, but
> still works well.
One of those Lucasarts point-n-click classics with clever writing and
the right dose of humor and suspense. Rightful heirs to Infocom legacy. :)
Sadly, never played it. Swan Song... but Day of the Tentacle and Sam &
Max are the other gems and I've had quite some fun.
> - Beyond Good & Evil. A very "consoleish" game (published, not surprisingly,
> for game consoles but also for Windows), which is rather good, but went
Always heard of it, but never really could get around at playing it.
> - The Prince of Persia "sands of time trilogy". You should get the trilogy
Those are very good, indeed.
I still get a kick of the original PC game as well -- specially the
updated version in the SNES.
> - Final Fantasy I and II. These are basically the original FF1 and FF2
Final Fantasy 6 (SNES), 7 and Tactics (Playstation 1) are the best in
the franchise, hands down! 5 and 8 were almost there.
Well, here are some of my personal favorite underdogs, in no particular
order except perhaps being closer to my heart:
- Super Metroid (SNES) (best action/adventure side-scroller ever)
- Kenseiden (Sega Master System) (pure side-scrolling action with
amazing creepy mood)
- Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) (you know)
- Ico and Shadow of Colossus (PS2) (gems)
- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (Playstation 1) (Metroidvania)
If you ever can get your hands in any of these games, do it. Yes, I
know that Zelda was a huge hit, not an underdog, but worth mentioning
anyway.
In later years I've been digging interactive-fiction games (AKA
text-adventures) very much. After the commercial demise in the latter
80's, a vibrant online community formed around old interpreters and game
formats, hacked and extended those away and began developing new titles,
entering competitions and all. The media became more mature and
experimental, much unlike the old plain gigantic and sometimes obtuse
treasure hunting cave crawlers like Zork and Adventure.
The mechanics are still pretty similar: you role play a personage in a
fiction setting by having the place, objects and persons in a given
scene told to you in second-person. You can then issue commands, like:
> look
> take something
> examine something
> sit
> open door
> put the book on the table
> go north
and the result of your actions may affect the game outcome or not. Some
actions are standard and even have short aliases, like l(ook),
(e)x(amine) something or cardinal directions like NW to go in that
direction.
Below are some of my favorites, the product of some of the "best-seller"
new amateur interactive-fiction authors out there. They are playable
online thanks to efforts to bring a z-machine emulator in javascript. :)
Out of them all, I enjoy Shade the best, short but a true masterpiece by
Andrew Plotkin.
If you never played IF games before, I suggest 9:05, Balances,
Metamorp(hoses) and Photopia first. If you are in for some of those
older huge cave crawlers but with much more literary substance, I
suggest Curses, Jigsaw, Savoir-Faire and Anchorhead. I suggest all of
them, of course. :)
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/curses.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/905.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/Balances.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/Tangle.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/AllRoads.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/shade.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/photopia.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/weather.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/FailSafe.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/Wallpaper.zblorb.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/anchor.z8.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/Galatea.zblorb.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/I-0.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/Jigsaw.z8.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/metamorp.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/Savoir-Faire.zblorb.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/sherbet.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/mindelec.z5.js
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/SoFar.z8.js
There's much more to be found in places like:
http://www.wurb.com/
http://www.ifreviews.org/
http://ifcomp.org/
http://mirror.ifarchive.org/
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> With the recent gaming-related threads, I thought about creating one
> myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to try?
> Maybe an older game which most people have forgotten, which is still today
> as great as back then? Or a game which didn't get too much media attention
> but is actually incredibly cool?
Let's see, there's always the original Gameboy Tetris, and of course you'll
never be without 'emacs -batch -l dunnet'. For the number of games I play,
yes, in fact, I am dead serious. I also thought World of Goo (
http://2dboy.com/games.php ) was an outstanding example of clever design, it's
just a shame that the game itself isn't a little more interesting. Other than
that? Hmm... Myst? I actually found the cd, installed Windows, and gave it a
try a while back. It's actually amazing how bad the graphics are, but I guess
it was revolutionary at the time.
- Ricky
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nemesis wrote:
> In later years I've been digging interactive-fiction games (AKA
If you're into that sort of thing, this is a very cool authoring system for
them. Basically, the same sort of parser that the game uses is employed to
write the game itself.
http://inform-fiction.org/I7/Welcome.html
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Deus Ex. By far the single greatest video game of all time :)
Pardus (www.pardus.at). It's an online economic simulator with a game
thrown in.
QIX (Or Qix or something). Incredibly fun arcade/puzzle type (in the
same style as Jezzball, but much older).
Grand Theft Auto IV. I know, big budget game that already got a lot of
nods... but a lot of people just pass over it because it's GTA. I
almost did; but since I played it, it's easily the best game in the last
few years.
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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Darren New wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> There was also a great game I played on TRS-80 Model I machines. I
>> don't remember what it was called,
>
> Ah. Apparently it was called "Galaxy".
> http://www.mobygames.com/game/galaxy
Wowee. 1981. And there was me thinking I'd gone too far oldskool. Sounds
good though! Ever play the original Elite? A bit more action-based than
Galaxy sounds, but trading and missions between stars and galaxies. In 3d!
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Kevin Wampler <wampler+pov### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> Chrono Trigger:
> An RPG for the SNES, you can find a rom for an emulator pretty easily,
> or buy it used if you still own the console.
I think that technically speaking it's legal if you buy the physical
game cartridge but then download the ROM and play it on the emulator.
Without buying the cartridge it's technically illegal to download and
play it but... I would be huge liar if I claimed I have never done that
in my life.
> Monkey Island (series):
> Old PC game. Gameplay is ehhh, but the writing is top-notch and very funny.
I have played all four games, and own the last two.
> Katamari Damacy:
> Available on most modern consoles. Too weird not to like.
I played a demo of the sequel (I think), on the xob360, and I must
confess I didn't quite understand the appeal. I didn't find it addictive
or especially funny...
--
- Warp
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Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> If you never played games on a platform this old then it will probably
> hold no interest for you, compared with modern systems.
Is the ZX Spectrum 128 old enough?-)
--
- Warp
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nemesis <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote:
> > - Grim Fandango. Every gaming website always has this game on their top
> > list of best games in history, praising it for its ingenuity and writing,
> > yet it seems that people still don't know it. It's a very old game, but
> > still works well.
> One of those Lucasarts point-n-click classics with clever writing and
> the right dose of humor and suspense. Rightful heirs to Infocom legacy. :)
Actually not point-and-click. Walk-and-turn. The controls work very well
with a game controller.
> > - Final Fantasy I and II. These are basically the original FF1 and FF2
> Final Fantasy 6 (SNES), 7 and Tactics (Playstation 1) are the best in
> the franchise, hands down! 5 and 8 were almost there.
I was quite disappointed with FF7 when I got to play it recently.
(I had never even seen it before, only read about how "great" it is.)
Not only is it technically completely sub-par (even for the Playstation,
especially compared to other similar PS games such as Chrono Cross or
FF9), but I didn't find the gameplay and story all that compelling.
> Well, here are some of my personal favorite underdogs, in no particular
> order except perhaps being closer to my heart:
> - Super Metroid (SNES) (best action/adventure side-scroller ever)
How exactly is one of the best-ranked, best-selling games of all times
an "underdog"?-)
> - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) (you know)
This one even more. (Gets regularly on the top of "best games of all
time" lists.)
> In later years I've been digging interactive-fiction games (AKA
> text-adventures) very much.
I enjoyed text adventures for the ZX Spectrum a lot.
The problem with the modern ones: The best Spectrum text adventures had
images for each room (and there could be graphics of collectible objects,
doors in in closed and open states, etc.), while all the modern text
adventures are text-only.
I would really like to play those text adventures with graphics, but
there just doesn't seem to be any nowadays.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> If you never played games on a platform this old then it will probably
>> hold no interest for you, compared with modern systems.
>
> Is the ZX Spectrum 128 old enough?-)
Absolutely! Exactly the same age in fact. :)
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Warp wrote:
> With the recent gaming-related threads, I thought about creating one
> myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to try?
> Maybe an older game which most people have forgotten, which is still today
> as great as back then? Or a game which didn't get too much media attention
> but is actually incredibly cool?
Nethack.
Ancient Art of War
Commander Keen!
I need to kill this thread. Everytime I think of old games, I lose a few
days.
--
I think animal testing is a terrible idea. They get all nervous and give
the wrong answers.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On 2/6/2009 7:50 PM, nemesis wrote:
> - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) (you know)
>
> If you ever can get your hands in any of these games, do it. Yes, I know
> that Zelda was a huge hit, not an underdog, but worth mentioning anyway.
I have to say, Zelda 64 is definitely where they jumped the shark. A
Link to the Past was a far better game :)
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> Commander Keen!
Oh man I'd forgotten about that game! I used to love it!
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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> In later years I've been digging interactive-fiction games (AKA
>
> If you're into that sort of thing, this is a very cool authoring system
> for them. Basically, the same sort of parser that the game uses is
> employed to write the game itself.
>
> http://inform-fiction.org/I7/Welcome.html
Yes, Inform is one of those systems I was talking about. Graham Nelson
reverse engineered Infocom's z-machine format and wrote a compiler for
it still in the nineties. Inform 7 is the latest evolution: a (almost)
natural language parser that compiles to previous Inform 6 format. It's
a joy to behold. Unfortunately I don't have enough english skills
(mostly vocabulary) nor literary talent to try my hand at writing games
with it.
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Warp wrote:
> nemesis <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote:
> I was quite disappointed with FF7 when I got to play it recently.
> (I had never even seen it before, only read about how "great" it is.)
> Not only is it technically completely sub-par (even for the Playstation,
> especially compared to other similar PS games such as Chrono Cross or
> FF9)
Well, I can assure you that when it came in 1997 it was the most
impressive game to ever grace a game screen. I'm talking of the battle
scenes, mostly, but the video scenes were pretty amazing too. And if
you couldn't be moved by the creepy atmosphere as you learn Cloud's
past, well, you're made of ice, man... ;)
>> - Super Metroid (SNES) (best action/adventure side-scroller ever)
>
> How exactly is one of the best-ranked, best-selling games of all times
> an "underdog"?-)
Huh, did it really sell all that? Well, still a favorite...
>> - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) (you know)
>
> This one even more. (Gets regularly on the top of "best games of all
> time" lists.)
I have to insist.
> The problem with the modern ones: The best Spectrum text adventures had
> images for each room (and there could be graphics of collectible objects,
> doors in in closed and open states, etc.), while all the modern text
> adventures are text-only.
That's what text mean, I guess. In any case, the best Spectrum (or PS3
for the matter) images are not the same quality as my brain pictures it
from reading the descriptions.
> I would really like to play those text adventures with graphics, but
> there just doesn't seem to be any nowadays.
Have you actually tried any of the ones I linked to? No, no images, but
perhaps they could change your mind. I dare you try it, at least Shade.
Like I said, they are not quite games in the same sense of the old
ones. They are more like experimental interactive role playing.
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Mueen Nawaz <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
> Nethack.
I have tried it seriously three times. Every time I understood what the
appeal of the game is, but I still didn't dig the game all that much.
--
- Warp
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"Kevin Wampler" <wampler+pov### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote in message
news:498ce5b6$1@news.povray.org...
> somebody wrote:
> > Myst series seemed utterly boring to me. With a storyline that is
sterile,
> > alien and convoluted, and puzzles that are artificial , I never
understood
> > what the appeal was. Then again, I've never been a "gamer", in that most
I
> > can play is 1/2 hr or so at a sitting, and to mentally and physically
relax,
> > not as a second job. For similar demographics, I guess games that are
more
> > like sitcoms than films are more appealing.
> Did you play Myst shortly after it came out or later on? I recall the
> the technology rather stunning when it came out, but has since been long
> surpassed by other games, so that might play into your assessment.
If by technology you mean the stills and some videos, yes, I remember being
impressed with those, and I believe that's the only reason people bought it.
I wouldn't consider those technology, but the game art. Visual artists did a
good job for sure, but any single beginner programmer could have coded the
game itself in a matter of days.
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somebody wrote:
> If by technology you mean the stills and some videos, yes, I remember being
> impressed with those, and I believe that's the only reason people bought it.
> I wouldn't consider those technology, but the game art. Visual artists did a
> good job for sure, but any single beginner programmer could have coded the
> game itself in a matter of days.
Fair enough, but I'm not sure it's fair to distinguish the level design
from the "game", since I have no doubt that the vast majority of the
development time was spent designing the levels. Sure the interaction
was very simple, but that was the first time that I saw anything that
really did a good job of visually emulating a virtual world.
Not that I can't understand why you wouldn't like it, and I agree that
the visuals are the only really interesting part, I just found the
visuals impressive and engrossing enough (at the time) that I still
regard it as a groundbreaking game.
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Warp wrote:
> Mueen Nawaz <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
>> Nethack.
>
> I have tried it seriously three times. Every time I understood what the
> appeal of the game is, but I still didn't dig the game all that much.
It helps if you tried it in the days of CGA...
--
He collects mouthwash bottles, and they're all in mint condition.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Kevin Wampler wrote:
> Not that I can't understand why you wouldn't like it, and I agree that
> the visuals are the only really interesting part,
Not just the visuals. The story, the design, etc. The interaction was simple
and straightforward.
I've seen lots of later games with fabulous visuals that really sucked as
games or even stories (I'm looking at you, Schism!). The creators got it
wrong, thinking that only the visuals mattered.
I, myself, have always thought the whole Myst series was amazingly PG given
that you could play the whole game with one hand.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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And lo On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:41:51 -0000, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did
spake thusly:
> With the recent gaming-related threads, I thought about creating one
> myself: Do you have any game gems which you would recommend people to
> try?
> Maybe an older game which most people have forgotten, which is still
> today as great as back then? Or a game which didn't get too much media
> attention but is actually incredibly cool?
Darren's mentioned the biggies, but I'll add System Shock 1 and 2 the
spirtual successors of Bioshock. The first hasn't aged well graphically
and the control system wouldn't be allowed in this day and age, but the
underlying system is still sound and the sequel solved a lot of that.
Soul Reaver - 1999 game for the PS1 that I still play, despite the ageing
graphics technically it can still knock the socks of most modern games.
Silent Hill 1 & 2 - Set the benchmark for horror without the sudden death
scenarios of the original Alone in the Dark's.
Portal - All the hype, but the best way to think of it is as a confined
sand-box; this is what has to happen or where you have to go now do it
anyway you like.
Beyond Oasis (The Story of Thor) - a Megadrive/Genesis RPGish type game;
didn't get the attention it deserved.
Just throwing a couple of others out there - Flashback, Snatcher,
Syndicate, and Keio Flying Squadron
Oh and I'm still playing Fallout3 for the second time and I'll be playing
it a third time to explore the Bad Side, and then maybe a fourth time for
the Balanced Side, and then maybe a speed run, and then... ;-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> Darren's mentioned the biggies, but I'll add System Shock 1 and 2 the
> spirtual successors of Bioshock.
I don't think that's what you intended to say... :P
--
- Warp
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> Darren's mentioned the biggies,
I also quite like Undying (great story and settings and magic/weapons/etc),
altho it wasn't what I'd call classic or anything. And McGee's Alice,
primarily because of the ties in to the book and the surrealism.
> but I'll add System Shock 1 and 2 the
I never managed to get it to run here, but I've seen videos. The on thing
that kills me with these games is when all the levels look the same. It
looks like DOOM3 is pretty much like that. You have "indoor base", "mars
surface", and "hades", and that's pretty much the three levels you have. At
least from my limited viewing of the game being played. I think SS was the
same way, if not moreso.
> Portal - All the hype, but the best way to think of it is as a confined
> sand-box; this is what has to happen or where you have to go now do it
> anyway you like.
Yeah. That looked like lots of fun. And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps
Mirror's Edge was inspired a bit by Portal.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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On 2/9/2009 7:14 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> Syndicate,
Did you hear they're considering doing a remake (as in, a particular
developer is interested in making it, and trying to secure both the
rights and funding to pursue the project)? Now, THAT would be a great
choice :)
BTW, another few I thought of were:
Oni. A Third person beat-em-up by Bungie (pre-Halo), very engaging.
Star Control 2. If you're a fan of the original Star Trek, you should
enjoy this tongue-in-cheek spiff of it. Crazy species, great combat,
doomsday devices, and gratuitous alien sex scenes! Does it get any
better than this? :)
Not to mention, one of the greatest quotes from a bad guy ever: "You are
filth. We shall cleanse." :)
(Don't bother with 1 or 3, though)
> Oh and I'm still playing Fallout3 for the second time and I'll be
> playing it a third time to explore the Bad Side, and then maybe a fourth
> time for the Balanced Side, and then maybe a speed run, and then... ;-)
You know, since I finished the story, I just haven't been interested in
going back and playing any more... it's a shame, as it was really fun
while I was into it.
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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And lo On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:40:31 -0000, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did
spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> Darren's mentioned the biggies, but I'll add System Shock 1 and 2 the
>> spirtual successors of Bioshock.
>
> I don't think that's what you intended to say... :P
No I don't think I intended to say that :-P
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:47:24 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> Darren's mentioned the biggies,
>
> I also quite like Undying (great story and settings and
> magic/weapons/etc),
That's one I picked up on your recommendation and yes I did enjoy it,
reminded me a little of Blood for some reason.
> altho it wasn't what I'd call classic or anything. And McGee's Alice,
> primarily because of the ties in to the book and the surrealism.
That could have been better. Both the story and design was very nice and
it had a few neat little platformng innovations such as the footprints
showing where you'd land, but it just lacked something IDK.
>> but I'll add System Shock 1 and 2 the
>
> I never managed to get it to run here, but I've seen videos.
I've got SS2 to run on XP and added in the SHTUP high-def texture patch
without a problem if you've got Thief to run so should SS2.
> The on thing that kills me with these games is when all the levels look
> the same. It looks like DOOM3 is pretty much like that. You have "indoor
> base", "mars surface", and "hades", and that's pretty much the three
> levels you have. At least from my limited viewing of the game being
> played. I think SS was the same way, if not moreso.
To be fair you are stuck on a space-station or space-ship in SS1 and SS2
respectively so gray is the theme ;-) Them again there are the hydroponics
bays and the organic presence of the Many. I will say that unlike some
games I didn't get overtly lost in SS2. I would occasionally end up back
where I started from following some passage, but at least I'd recognise
the fact and I could navigate my way around without reverting to the map
most of the time.
>> Portal - All the hype, but the best way to think of it is as a confined
>> sand-box; this is what has to happen or where you have to go now do it
>> anyway you like.
>
> Yeah. That looked like lots of fun.
My cousin just didn't 'get it', I suppose you need a problem solving brain
to appreciate it.
> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
> bit by Portal.
Conceptually perhaps, but IMO they messed it up by adding in the
gun-toting enemies in a sporadic system - i.e. sometimes you have to avoid
them, sometimes you have to take them out; make up your mind. Also it
could be darn pernickity about where you land - run along with someone
shooting at you, drop down at a minor angle and run towards a ramp, jump
and... miss the drainpipe by an inch, fall, die, repeat. In Portal even if
I didn't make it over a barrier or to a platform I never blamed the game;
I accepted I hadn't placed the portal correctly, entered it with the
correct orientation, or simply messed up my timing.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:07:24 -0000, Chambers
<ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> did spake thusly:
> On 2/9/2009 7:14 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> Syndicate,
>
> Did you hear they're considering doing a remake (as in, a particular
> developer is interested in making it, and trying to secure both the
> rights and funding to pursue the project)? Now, THAT would be a great
> choice :)
Mmmm Wikipedia suggests it may be an online thing, which would be
interesting; sounds like it could be a bit like EVE.
>> Oh and I'm still playing Fallout3 for the second time and I'll be
>> playing it a third time to explore the Bad Side, and then maybe a fourth
>> time for the Balanced Side, and then maybe a speed run, and then... ;-)
>
> You know, since I finished the story, I just haven't been interested in
> going back and playing any more... it's a shame, as it was really fun
> while I was into it.
I just want to blow up Megaton, crush Moira's dreams, burn Harold, and
shoot all the good guys in the head just to see where it takes me. Saying
that there are annoyances - it seems to be a lot less stable since the PS3
patch; some of the conversations can't be repeated; the random encounters
can be a pain to get; and the annoyance that with a level cap of 20 and a
choice of four perks for that level you need to save just prior to
leveling up in order to try them all out, or play the whole game four
times.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On 2/10/2009 1:47 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> I just want to blow up Megaton, crush Moira's dreams, burn Harold, and
> shoot all the good guys in the head just to see where it takes me.
I'm looking forward to playing Vault 13* as an evil bad guy :) Evil
dreams, here I come!
*I think it is. It's the one where you find your father.
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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And lo On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:19:19 -0000, Chambers
<ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> did spake thusly:
> On 2/10/2009 1:47 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> I just want to blow up Megaton, crush Moira's dreams, burn Harold, and
>> shoot all the good guys in the head just to see where it takes me.
>
> I'm looking forward to playing Vault 13* as an evil bad guy :) Evil
> dreams, here I come!
>
> *I think it is. It's the one where you find your father.
Oh yes that was cool um Vault 112 [checks] yep. I skipped the whole thing
via the old lady. She just happened to be the first person I spoke to
before being told to make the kid cry.
Annoyingly on Very Hard you get 150% of the experience for killing
someone; although they're much tougher this means I've hit level 20
already. I can still get killed (Talon Company especially are unpleasant
in packs), but it means Radscorpions and the like are just a nuisance and
waste of ammo; heck I'm using the Shishkebab and the Deathclaw Gauntlet on
them to save ammo.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> That could have been better. Both the story and design was very nice and
> it had a few neat little platformng innovations such as the footprints
> showing where you'd land, but it just lacked something IDK.
Exactly my feelings. It would be lame without the tie-ins to the book. Sort
of like pron music without the porn to go with it.
> I've got SS2 to run on XP and added in the SHTUP high-def texture patch
> without a problem if you've got Thief to run so should SS2.
Maybe I'll give it a try. I have three games already I've started and I
can't get in spired to play any of them.
> To be fair you are stuck on a space-station or space-ship in SS1 and SS2
> respectively so gray is the theme ;-)
I understand why. The right answer is to be clever.
Myst had a very small amount of data space available for the way it was
built. So what do they do? They put you on an island, where there's a
natural barrier preventing you from wandering, rather than just a "you can't
go that way" message. None of this Undying "Jammed!" stuff.
> unlike some games I didn't get overtly lost in SS2.
I *still* get lost in Thief. :-) Even Bafford's Manor is pretty baffling
sometimes.
>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
>> bit by Portal.
>
> Conceptually perhaps,
That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than anything.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
> >> bit by Portal.
> >
> > Conceptually perhaps,
> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than anything.
At least if you turn the red hints off.
I didn't really understand the idea of those hints. When I started playing
the game, I turned them off (I knew about them from the demo) because I felt
that they were completely unnecessary and only ruined one of the assets of
such a game: Having to find the correct path, rather than it being shown you
right on your face.
Even without the hints it wasn't mostly very difficult to guess where to go
next. I can only assume that with the hints it would have been ridiculously
easy.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
>>>> bit by Portal.
>>> Conceptually perhaps,
>
>> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than anything.
>
> At least if you turn the red hints off.
Yes. I only played the demo, so I guess that hadn't really occurred to me.
It's good to hear you can turn the hints off.
I expect *I* would need them on for the first level or two, just to learn
what can and can't be done. Otherwise, I'd try four times to jump to
someplace, decide it's not the right way, and only after much frustration
have to go back to see it was right after all and I just wasn't jumping
straight. :-)
I take it then that there is, in general, only one usable path to your goal?
If so, that's kind of disappointing. It seems like it would be easy to make
two or three ways past each problem, leading to much greater replayability.
That's one of the things that made Thief and Deus Ex and all so fun.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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On 2/10/2009 8:55 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> Annoyingly on Very Hard you get 150% of the experience for killing
> someone; although they're much tougher this means I've hit level 20
> already. I can still get killed (Talon Company especially are unpleasant
> in packs), but it means Radscorpions and the like are just a nuisance
> and waste of ammo; heck I'm using the Shishkebab and the Deathclaw
> Gauntlet on them to save ammo.
You know, I played as a completely good character, and I was so strapped
for cash that I never did get around to buying plans for custom weapons
(so I never made any of them).
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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And lo On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:16:18 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> I've got SS2 to run on XP and added in the SHTUP high-def texture patch
>> without a problem if you've got Thief to run so should SS2.
>
> Maybe I'll give it a try. I have three games already I've started and I
> can't get in spired to play any of them.
It's also nice to be able to pick your career path, helps replayability.
>> To be fair you are stuck on a space-station or space-ship in SS1 and
>> SS2 respectively so gray is the theme ;-)
>
> I understand why. The right answer is to be clever.
>
> Myst had a very small amount of data space available for the way it was
> built. So what do they do? They put you on an island, where there's a
> natural barrier preventing you from wandering, rather than just a "you
> can't go that way" message. None of this Undying "Jammed!" stuff.
Oh gods they've still got that in Fallout3. I came out of a building near
the edge of the 'world' and got ambushed; backed off, chucked a grenade
and tried to run between two escarpments and came to an abrupt halt at an
invisble wall.
>> unlike some games I didn't get overtly lost in SS2.
>
> I *still* get lost in Thief. :-) Even Bafford's Manor is pretty baffling
> sometimes.
Ditto, I found it difficult to orientate myself at time with all the same
door types, carpets, cave walls etc. SS2 did well with signs and differing
'feels'; I still had to call up the map on occasion, but I generally had
an idea where I was. Again got to say that's something very nice with the
high draw distance in Fallout3 compared to Oblivion. Though the big
central city had a huge tower, the forests cut down the view, in F3 I can
see Tenpenny Tower or the Washington Monument and just know where I am as
I trapse along.
>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
>>> bit by Portal.
>> Conceptually perhaps,
>
> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than
> anything.
Which as I said they then screwed up by adding the gun-toters.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:27:17 -0000, Chambers
<ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> did spake thusly:
> On 2/10/2009 8:55 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> Annoyingly on Very Hard you get 150% of the experience for killing
>> someone; although they're much tougher this means I've hit level 20
>> already. I can still get killed (Talon Company especially are unpleasant
>> in packs), but it means Radscorpions and the like are just a nuisance
>> and waste of ammo; heck I'm using the Shishkebab and the Deathclaw
>> Gauntlet on them to save ammo.
>
> You know, I played as a completely good character, and I was so strapped
> for cash that I never did get around to buying plans for custom weapons
> (so I never made any of them).
There were three of four schematics for each weapon and most were either
sat on a desk or given as a quest reward. I recall the bottlecap mine was
a reward from Moira for Minefield, the Shishkebab from Vince for Blood
Ties, and the Dart Gun from Hannibal for Head of State. Damn I don't know
how you could play without the Dart Gun, particularly at harder
difficulties; that was my default weapon - totally silent so no real
problem if you miss, cripples most creatures legs so they can't chase you
(essential for the Deathclaws), and poisons them over time. Heck I've shot
a Raider and watched his health drop as he staggered around, then when he
keeled over dead watched other Raiders come out of cover to check his body
and shot them too.
Money-wise I never had a problem after I'd cleaned out the Super-Duper
Mart of everything including tin cans, I just filled my pockets and dumped
everything in one of the Nuka-Cola machines outside repeated until the
store was empty then fast-travelled back and forth between there and
Megaton and sold everything to either Moira, Gob, or the Doc. Anything
left over when they'd run out of money I dumped in a locker in my house.
If you don't want the running you can do the same in Megaton there's a ton
of stuff just lying around. After that I just picked up items for weapon
building or low weight to high-value items such as cartons of cigarettes
(2:50) or vodka (1:20). Sugar Bombs can be sold at the Seneca station
(1:15/30) and Pre-war books at Arlington Library (1:100). Apparently there
are 111 of the later so that's 11,100 potential caps.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> It's also nice to be able to pick your career path, helps replayability.
Career path? You mean like what skills you learn and what upgrades you pick?
Yeah, that's good too. I see that in Deus Ex and Bioshock too.
Thief, it's mostly a matter of "I wonder if I can do it this way..." more
than "let's start over and play it differently." Altho you can try it like
"let's go thru and not ever get seen by anyone ever", or "let's do it and
inflict no damage anywhere" (which is a heck of a lot harder).
> halt at an invisble wall.
Yeah, exactly the wrong answer.
Like Gorden Frohman said, "A locked door? He has a rocket launcher!"
> Ditto, I found it difficult to orientate myself at time with all the
> same door types, carpets, cave walls etc.
I never got lost in the caves or outdoors. Just in the buildings, mostly the
square ones. The prison at least had signposts.
> view, in F3 I can see Tenpenny Tower or the Washington Monument and just
> know where I am as I trapse along.
In Thief3, Garret even says you can see the clocktower from anywhere in the
city and it makes a great landmark, but you can stand 30 feet away and not
be able to figure out that thing's the clocktower. :-)
>>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired
>>>> a bit by Portal.
>>> Conceptually perhaps,
>>
>> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than
>> anything.
>
> Which as I said they then screwed up by adding the gun-toters.
Yeah, I saw that. Well, I guess they figured it needed the action or
something. Maybe some day when it's in the $5 bin I'll buy it. I like
getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just to see them.
I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for Mirror's Edge, tho.
Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite cheap
enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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And lo On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:55:06 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> It's also nice to be able to pick your career path, helps replayability.
>
> Career path? You mean like what skills you learn and what upgrades you
> pick?
From memory you start with a choice of Army, Navy, Special (Psi) and then
choice from nine year-long missions (arranged 3 by 3) that'll boost
certain stats. After that you get rewards that you can use at stations to
boost your stats again.
> Yeah, that's good too. I see that in Deus Ex and Bioshock too.
Pretty much same thing with a different name
> Thief, it's mostly a matter of "I wonder if I can do it this way..."
> more than "let's start over and play it differently." Altho you can
> try it like "let's go thru and not ever get seen by anyone ever", or
> "let's do it and inflict no damage anywhere" (which is a heck of a lot
> harder).
Yeah in the other three games play style is largely dictated by stats,
Thief just sets the stats and says "Do what you can with them"
>> halt at an invisble wall.
>
> Yeah, exactly the wrong answer.
And what with the abundence of natural formations that could stop you a
very strange decision.
> Like Gorden Frohman said, "A locked door? He has a rocket launcher!"
Drives me mad, they tried to solve it in Red Faction, but even then you
had solid doors set in corridors you couldn't dent. Saying that I do
recall one blast door in a cavern I got around with using explosives. Be
interesting to see what they do in RF3.
>> Ditto, I found it difficult to orientate myself at time with all the
>> same door types, carpets, cave walls etc.
>
> I never got lost in the caves or outdoors. Just in the buildings, mostly
> the square ones. The prison at least had signposts.
>
>> view, in F3 I can see Tenpenny Tower or the Washington Monument and
>> just know where I am as I trapse along.
>
> In Thief3, Garret even says you can see the clocktower from anywhere in
> the city and it makes a great landmark, but you can stand 30 feet away
> and not be able to figure out that thing's the clocktower. :-)
Haven't played T3, I heard they nerfed it for the Xbox and at the time my
PC was woefully unpowered for it. In terms of getting lost I think the key
is to have a variety of 'keypoints' you can recognise without disturbing
the aesthetic. That was one of the reasons I got lost in Oblivion "I'm in
a forest" until I get to higher ground or break through the trees and see
a landmark I'm lost - realistic I suppose, but annoying. Yet even in the
subway tunnels in F3 I'd backtrack to a junction and know I'd already been
down that side because of that embeded barrel, or the broken gas pipe, or
the combination of other little things.
>>>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired
>>>>> a bit by Portal.
>>>> Conceptually perhaps,
>>>
>>> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than
>>> anything.
>> Which as I said they then screwed up by adding the gun-toters.
>
> Yeah, I saw that. Well, I guess they figured it needed the action or
> something.
Which they could have gotten by giving you a time limit. You're supposed
to be a courier - get from A to B in X then get trophies for getting there
under a set time. The guns just messed it up.
> Maybe some day when it's in the $5 bin I'll buy it.
Took a rapid drop to the £20 mark here on PS3.
> I like getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just to
> see them. I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for Mirror's
> Edge, tho.
I don't know if it's the development engine or cycle, but I'm seeing a lot
less cheats on the consoles. Kind of good in that without precautions
you'd have cheaters knocking down the trophies/achievements, kind of bad
in that yes it is fun to go through it as a cathetic release of
invulnerability.
> Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite
> cheap enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
Which one?
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> the key is to have a variety of 'keypoints' you can recognise without
> disturbing the aesthetic.
Oh, it's not hard to do. Bafford's Manor is just all symmetric and stuff,
above and below ground. Once you start getting some stairs that lead up to a
dead end and some that lead down to the other side, you can easily get
turned around. Especially if you're trying to loot the whole place.
There are equally sprawling mansions you nevertheless get lost in even tho
places don't look the same, and there are places where it all looks the same
and you don't really get lost. I'm not real sure how one works the latter,
but things like the Lost City have maybe 3 textures for the whole level and
it's still easy to avoid getting lost, especially in T2.
Have you tried T2X, btw? Very well done.
>> I like getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just
>> to see them. I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for
>> Mirror's Edge, tho.
>
> I don't know if it's the development engine or cycle, but I'm seeing a
> lot less cheats on the consoles.
I mean, it's kind of hard to cheat the "falling off buildings" kind of game.
:-)
> Kind of good in that without
> precautions you'd have cheaters knocking down the trophies/achievements,
You don't award achievements on any game where god mode is turned on, is
all. :-) That's an old trick. (Kind of like how the multiplayer games won't
let you turn on god mode, even back in the Q2 days.)
>> Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite
>> cheap enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
>
> Which one?
Which one what? Which set? They're all beautiful. (Visually speaking, I
mean. No idea about the actual gameplay.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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And lo On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:06:25 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> the key is to have a variety of 'keypoints' you can recognise without
>> disturbing the aesthetic.
>
> Oh, it's not hard to do. Bafford's Manor is just all symmetric and
> stuff, above and below ground. Once you start getting some stairs that
> lead up to a dead end and some that lead down to the other side, you can
> easily get turned around. Especially if you're trying to loot the whole
> place.
>
> There are equally sprawling mansions you nevertheless get lost in even
> tho places don't look the same, and there are places where it all looks
> the same and you don't really get lost. I'm not real sure how one works
> the latter, but things like the Lost City have maybe 3 textures for the
> whole level and it's still easy to avoid getting lost, especially in T2.
Well as I said objects and positions pay a part, and as you say the manor
was symmetrical and if I recall the theatre was a pain.
Yesterday morning I was creeping through Roosevelt Academy in F3 -
corridors, side-rooms, and lockers; no problem. Even on the third floor I
could relate my position thanks to the collapsed floors/ceilings that
allowed me to spot a landmark above or below me.
> Have you tried T2X, btw? Very well done.
I have and it was, though it was a while ago - recall I dug out my notes
to give you a hand.
>>> I like getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just
>>> to see them. I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for
>>> Mirror's Edge, tho.
>> I don't know if it's the development engine or cycle, but I'm seeing a
>> lot less cheats on the consoles.
>
> I mean, it's kind of hard to cheat the "falling off buildings" kind of
> game. :-)
Heh indeed though a 'not getting shot' or 'turn off enemy AI' would be
nice.
>> Kind of good in that without precautions you'd have cheaters knocking
>> down the trophies/achievements,
>
> You don't award achievements on any game where god mode is turned on, is
> all. :-) That's an old trick. (Kind of like how the multiplayer games
> won't let you turn on god mode, even back in the Q2 days.
Turn on god mode; battle your way to the achievement point; turn off god
mode; you'd have to store a 'god mode' bit in both the game and save file.
So I mean it's possible, just hassle.
>>> Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite
>>> cheap enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
>> Which one?
>
> Which one what? Which set? They're all beautiful. (Visually speaking, I
> mean. No idea about the actual gameplay.)
I meant which Serious Sam?
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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