http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/01/microsoft-debunks-linux-myths.html

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/01/microsoft-debunks-linux-myths.html 

Cause, you know, Windows hasn't done anything about security since 2002, and 
Linux hasn't done anything about compatibility or usability since then 
either. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

> http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/01/microsoft-debunks-linux-myths.html

NEWSFLASH! - company discussing how to beat a competitor

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Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] npgcablecom> wrote:
> http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/01/microsoft-debunks-linux-myths.html

  What I don't understand is:

1) Why do some people put so much effort into assuring that linux is just
as capable as (or even moreso) than Windows? Who cares? I mean, really.

2) Why does Microsoft care about Linux, with its... what? Less than 1% market
share? And we are talking about people who, if Linux ceased to exist for
some reason, would simply switch to another free unix-like OS, eg. one of
the BSD variants or Solaris. It's not like MS would increase its customer
base by much if they somehow succeeded in destroying Linux.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp escreveu:
> 2) Why does Microsoft care about Linux, with its... what? Less than 1% market
> share?

I think they are more worried about enterprise Linux server installs, 
which go beyond that puny 1% mark.  Even if the Linux is serving a 
primarily Windows desktop network, it doesn't bode well that such 
desktops are not trapped to proprietary Microsoft server solutions.

It means suddenly Visual Studio developers may be targetting MySQL or 
PostgreSQL databases rather than SQL Server, for instance.  Heck, they 
may end up even using open-source libs rather than what's in the Windows 
API if control is too loose over them... :P

Post a reply to this message

nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Warp escreveu:
> > 2) Why does Microsoft care about Linux, with its... what? Less than 1% market
> > share?

> I think they are more worried about enterprise Linux server installs, 
> which go beyond that puny 1% mark.

  Even if 10% of companies used Linux in their servers, how much does
that mean in the total revenue of Microsoft?

  I would wildly guess that at least 99% of Windows sales revenues come
from individuals, the remaining 1% from other companies. If FUD'ing the
one tenth of companies not using Windows in their servers to switch to
Windows would succeed, how much would Microsoft's revenue increase?
Something 0.1%? One thousandth of what they current get.

  Big deal? I really think MS is just being paranoid and making a lot
of noise over nothing.

  IMO they should invest their resources on making better products rather
than trying to gain some 0.1% of market share by dubious means, which is
only negative PR for them and can cause a backlash. You don't get a
positive image of yourself by bashing your opponents. You do it by doing
a good job and offering high-quality products, and letting your products
speak for you.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:

>   I would wildly guess that at least 99% of Windows sales revenues come
> from individuals, the remaining 1% from other companies. If FUD'ing the
> one tenth of companies not using Windows in their servers to switch to
> Windows would succeed, how much would Microsoft's revenue increase?
> Something 0.1%? One thousandth of what they current get.

As far as I know, M$ makes more money out of Office than Windows. 
(Notice how Office only runs on Windows - and Mac OS, weirdly enough...) 
Clearly Office only runs on desktops, not servers.

>   Big deal? I really think MS is just being paranoid and making a lot
> of noise over nothing.

Current levels of Linux uptake don't really pose a threat. I guess M$ is 
worried about what Linux might become, rather than what it is today. Who 
knows what goes in in their little heads?

>   IMO they should invest their resources on making better products rather
> than trying to gain some 0.1% of market share by dubious means, which is
> only negative PR for them and can cause a backlash. You don't get a
> positive image of yourself by bashing your opponents. You do it by doing
> a good job and offering high-quality products, and letting your products
> speak for you.

That isn't the way M$ does business. Typically they achieve market share 
by eliminating competition rather than producing quality products.

Of course, if they *did* sit up and start making better products, that 
would be nice...

Post a reply to this message

Warp escreveu:
>   Even if 10% of companies used Linux in their servers, how much does
> that mean in the total revenue of Microsoft?
> 
>   I would wildly guess that at least 99% of Windows sales revenues come
> from individuals, the remaining 1% from other companies.

Not in Brazil, and I would guess most 3rd world countries and China and 
India too.  We can be pretty sure these people are running Windows 
desktops, save for a few degenarate nuts like me, but I doubt Microsoft 
is making much money off it, at least directly.  They can stop piracy at 
an enterprise level, though...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
.
> 
> As far as I know, M$ makes more money out of Office than Windows. 
> (Notice how Office only runs on Windows - and Mac OS, weirdly enough...) 
> Clearly Office only runs on desktops, not servers.
> 

Those two because supporting Office on Linux would be a nightmare. Of 
course, I suppose they could release it for Fedora as their only 
officially supported distro.

> 
> Current levels of Linux uptake don't really pose a threat. I guess M$ is 
> worried about what Linux might become, rather than what it is today. Who 
> knows what goes in in their little heads?
> 

I don't see Linux gaining the end user desktop market in the foreseeable 
future.

> 
> That isn't the way M$ does business. Typically they achieve market share 
> by eliminating competition rather than producing quality products.
> 

Adobe is much worse about this than MS... How many things that didn't 
used to have Adobe in front of them now do?

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford escreveu:
>> That isn't the way M$ does business. Typically they achieve market 
>> share by eliminating competition rather than producing quality products.
>>
> 
> Adobe is much worse about this than MS... How many things that didn't 
> used to have Adobe in front of them now do?

Adobe?  Ever heard of Autodesk? ;)

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:
> I think they are more worried about enterprise Linux server installs, 
> which go beyond that puny 1% mark.

That, and maybe stuff like OpenOffice?  MS wouldn't want an open source 
competitor to Exchange that runs on Linux either.  If you can FUD about 
Linux being useless for the desktop, and you can FUD that you can't get 
Linux and Windows to cooperate even with OSS software, you can keep 
something like ExchangeSubstitute from getting good.

> It means suddenly Visual Studio developers may be targetting MySQL or 
> PostgreSQL databases rather than SQL Server, for instance.  Heck, they 
> may end up even using open-source libs rather than what's in the Windows 
> API if control is too loose over them... :P

If you're doing Windows stuff that ports to Linux, you're better off 
building Linux libs that mimic the Windows stuff anyway, methinks.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   Big deal? I really think MS is just being paranoid and making a lot
> of noise over nothing.

Maybe by making a lot of noise over Linux, they think they can distract 
attention from Apple and Sun? :-)

>   IMO they should invest their resources on making better products

The people creating the FUD about Linux aren't the people writing the MS 
software. :-)

> You don't get a positive image of yourself by bashing your opponents. 
 > You do it by doing
> a good job and offering high-quality products, and letting your products
> speak for you.

I think MS makes good products and many people bash MS, to the point where 
there are people around that are just as much anti-MS-fanboys as there are 
Apple-fanboys. It's hard to say whether simply having the best product is 
sufficient.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> That isn't the way M$ does business. Typically they achieve market share 
> by eliminating competition rather than producing quality products.

See?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

"nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message 
news:497f4048@news.povray.org...
> Adobe?  Ever heard of Autodesk? ;)

Or Corel.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

Post a reply to this message

Tim Cook wrote:
> "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message 
> news:497f4048@news.povray.org...
>> Adobe?  Ever heard of Autodesk? ;)
> 
> Or Corel.

Corel is still around and assimilating.  I'm not sure what the point is?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

Darren New escreveu:
> Tim Cook wrote:
>> "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message 
>> news:497f4048@news.povray.org...
>>> Adobe?  Ever heard of Autodesk? ;)
>>
>> Or Corel.
> 
> Corel is still around and assimilating.  I'm not sure what the point is?

Corel is the only real and far away competition to Adobe imaging 
offerings as far as I know.  An underdog.

Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now 
they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the crying 
in many forums worldwide suggests...

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >   IMO they should invest their resources on making better products

> The people creating the FUD about Linux aren't the people writing the MS 
> software. :-)

  But they are getting money which would be better spent in improving
the products.

> > You don't get a positive image of yourself by bashing your opponents. 
>  > You do it by doing
> > a good job and offering high-quality products, and letting your products
> > speak for you.

> I think MS makes good products and many people bash MS, to the point where 
> there are people around that are just as much anti-MS-fanboys as there are 
> Apple-fanboys. It's hard to say whether simply having the best product is 
> sufficient.

  Why do you think MS is so hated and eg. Apple isn't? Because Apple doesn't
use so many glaringly dubious attack tactics and get the hatred of every
living being on Earth.

  If Microsoft (and especially Steve Ballmer) stopped trolling around and
concentrated only on what they are good at, they could get a better
reputation. But no. I think that at least with Steve Ballmer it's some
kind of odd twisted imago reputation which he *wants* to maintain, for
some incomprehensible reason.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:13:35 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> MS wouldn't want an open source
> competitor to Exchange that runs on Linux either

Such a program does in fact exist, though.

There's OpenXchange, and another I've heard of called Zimbra, I think.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:26:24 -0500, Warp wrote:

>   If Microsoft (and especially Steve Ballmer) stopped trolling around
>   and
> concentrated only on what they are good at, they could get a better
> reputation. But no. I think that at least with Steve Ballmer it's some
> kind of odd twisted imago reputation which he *wants* to maintain, for
> some incomprehensible reason.

For Ballmer (and Gates before him), it's all about control.  They don't 
like what they can't control, so they have to either try to control it or 
destroy it.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the crying
> in many forums worldwide suggests...

Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....

Jim

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:
> Warp escreveu:
>> 2) Why does Microsoft care about Linux, with its... what? Less than 1% 
>> market
>> share?
> 
> I think they are more worried about enterprise Linux server installs, 
> which go beyond that puny 1% mark.  Even if the Linux is serving a 
> primarily Windows desktop network, it doesn't bode well that such 
> desktops are not trapped to proprietary Microsoft server solutions.
> 
> It means suddenly Visual Studio developers may be targetting MySQL or 
> PostgreSQL databases rather than SQL Server, for instance.  Heck, they 
> may end up even using open-source libs rather than what's in the Windows 
> API if control is too loose over them... :P

Well, the point here is, these are documents expressing worry about 
Linux "somehow" causing Windows problems, 7 years ago, when, frankly, it 
still was a pain in the ass to do some things. Now.. If you really want 
to, you can nearly hide it under a shell that "looks and acts" like XP, 
some of its desktop stuff, like compiz (assuming I spelled that right), 
makes the "innovations" available in Vista look lame, and even the gap 
between Windows and Linux software is "currently" only held by a few 
obscure WINE bugs, which effect about the same percentage of software as 
the transition from say Win 3.1 to 95 did, and the lack of Direct3D 
support. Neither of those is going to stand long. And the recent 
notebook fiasco has pretty much brought home for everyone that Windows 
was "never" intended to run on low resources at even "close" to the same 
functionality, if at all.

MS is becoming what Big Blue was in the mainframe era. Someone so 
focused on their "existing" product, that they suddenly find that the 
rug is being pulled out from under their feet, and worse, someone moved 
anything they could grab hold of to keep from falling down. Mind, I 
don't think its going to be "quite" as bad for them, since its not 
changing an entire architecture, but they still have a huge problem.

BTW, here the one about how the EU may have finally gotten so annoyed at 
IE being integrated in MS' machines that they may require new installs 
to "include" an alternative browser "standard" in all of them? Can't 
imagine that making things better for them either...

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   Big deal? I really think MS is just being paranoid and making a lot
>> of noise over nothing.
> 
> Maybe by making a lot of noise over Linux, they think they can distract 
> attention from Apple and Sun? :-)
> 
>>   IMO they should invest their resources on making better products
> 
> The people creating the FUD about Linux aren't the people writing the MS 
> software. :-)
> 
>> You don't get a positive image of yourself by bashing your opponents. 
>  > You do it by doing
>> a good job and offering high-quality products, and letting your products
>> speak for you.
> 
> I think MS makes good products and many people bash MS, to the point 
> where there are people around that are just as much anti-MS-fanboys as 
> there are Apple-fanboys. It's hard to say whether simply having the best 
> product is sufficient.
> 
One of the points of this article is that these are high level MS 
people, who are afraid of what Linux "could be", saying the 180 degree 
opposite of everything that every FUD campaign MS ever put out, and 
every MS connected internet shill still babbles, has declared are the 
"weaknesses" of Linux. These people are effectively admitting that its 
not just a lie, but indirectly, that they are willing to lie to you, me, 
and anyone else, to get a sale.

That is what pisses me off about MS, not the "quality" of their 
software, which frankly, is only higher quality because they have more 
experience at integrating stuff, over decades, while burying any 
competition, than some others have, and, whether you want to admit it or 
not, sometimes they miss more than they hit, their entire design is so 
unworkable they actually stated, "We can't fix this at all, we have to 
start over if you really want all the stuff you planned!", when trying 
to figure out what to do when going from XP to Vista, and things still 
break for no comprehensible reason, sometimes "while" doing something as 
"supposedly simple", as initially *correctly* detecting hardware, which 
is not a problem Linux has at all.

No, they make decent software. So do a lot of FOSS people. But good? 
Tell me that when no one has to reinstall a device driver because 
Windows, in any flavor, misidentifies the damn thing, just for a start...

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson escreveu:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
> 
>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the crying
>> in many forums worldwide suggests...
> 
> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....

what?  WHAAATTT??!

seriously, never heard of that before... :O

Post a reply to this message

nemesis escreveu:
> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>
>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the crying
>>> in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>
>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
> 
> what?  WHAAATTT??!
> 
> seriously, never heard of that before... :O

oh, I see, you're actually saying Adobe PWNS Autodesk, right? ;)

May be, many more photoshop users than 3D heads out there...

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>> 
>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the
>>> crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>> 
>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
> 
> what?  WHAAATTT??!
> 
> seriously, never heard of that before... :O

And I have faulty memory.  I could've sworn I heard that Adobe had 
acquired Autodesk, but it seems I was mistaken.

Still, I'll bet you're awake now. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>   Why do you think MS is so hated and eg. Apple isn't? Because Apple doesn't
> use so many glaringly dubious attack tactics and get the hatred of every
> living being on Earth.

No, I guess it's because of an instinct in man: When on the aggressive side of
the warpath, you pick *one* opponent to fight at a time, and quite perfectly
forget about the others (unless one of them poses an immediate threat), until
you have either won over him or he has escaped to safety.

And of course, the one you will pick first (and team up against with your clan)
is the biggest and most powerful of them all. If you manage to win over him, it
may be enough to impress his kin so much that they will all just surrender, and
your clan will rule the universe.

Doesn't have to be the meanest of them all. Just the most impressive and
powerful of them.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson escreveu:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0200, nemesis wrote:
> 
>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the
>>>> crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>>
>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
> 
> And I have faulty memory.  I could've sworn I heard that Adobe had 
> acquired Autodesk, but it seems I was mistaken.
> 
> Still, I'll bet you're awake now. ;-)

hah!  I was awake and the coffee almost spilled through my nose when I 
read that! :P

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:12:33 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> nemesis escreveu:
>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the
>>>> crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>>
>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>> 
>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>> 
>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
> 
> oh, I see, you're actually saying Adobe PWNS Autodesk, right? ;)

Yeaaaah, yeah, that's what I meant. ;-)

> May be, many more photoshop users than 3D heads out there...

Post a reply to this message

nemesis escreveu:
> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the
>>>>> crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>>>
>>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
>>
>> And I have faulty memory.  I could've sworn I heard that Adobe had 
>> acquired Autodesk, but it seems I was mistaken.
>>
>> Still, I'll bet you're awake now. ;-)
> 
> hah!  I was awake and the coffee almost spilled through my nose when I 
> read that! :P

cause that would be like some superhypermegamonopoly... not that the 2 
beasts are away from it in their respective markets... :P

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:16:40 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>> 
>>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the
>>>>> crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>>>
>>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
>> 
>> And I have faulty memory.  I could've sworn I heard that Adobe had
>> acquired Autodesk, but it seems I was mistaken.
>> 
>> Still, I'll bet you're awake now. ;-)
> 
> hah!  I was awake and the coffee almost spilled through my nose when I
> read that! :P

LOL, I know what I was thinking about now, I was thinking about 
Autodesk's acquisition of Maya3D and that - for some reason - conflated 
itself into Adobe acquiring Autodesk.

Maybe I'm *not* awake enough yet. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

clipka escreveu:
> And of course, the one you will pick first (and team up against with your clan)
> is the biggest and most powerful of them all.

speak for yourself, dude... ;)

Post a reply to this message

Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] npgcablecom> wrote:
> MS is becoming what Big Blue was in the mainframe era. Someone so
> focused on their "existing" product, that they suddenly find that the
> rug is being pulled out from under their feet, and worse, someone moved
> anything they could grab hold of to keep from falling down. Mind, I
> don't think its going to be "quite" as bad for them, since its not
> changing an entire architecture, but they still have a huge problem.

Well, I think the article shows that MS has a chance to avoid the same fate as
Big Blue: They seem to be quite a pro-active bunch, given how much they worried
about Linux 6 years ago already.

Maybe their pro-activity is not the type everyone is hoping for, but that's a
different story.

Post a reply to this message

On 27-Jan-09 20:18, nemesis wrote:
> clipka escreveu:
>> And of course, the one you will pick first (and team up against with 
>> your clan)
>> is the biggest and most powerful of them all.
> 
> speak for yourself, dude... ;)

seconded

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:17:38 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> nemesis escreveu:
>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and
>>>>>> now they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as
>>>>>> the crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>>>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>>>>
>>>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
>>>
>>> And I have faulty memory.  I could've sworn I heard that Adobe had
>>> acquired Autodesk, but it seems I was mistaken.
>>>
>>> Still, I'll bet you're awake now. ;-)
>> 
>> hah!  I was awake and the coffee almost spilled through my nose when I
>> read that! :P
> 
> cause that would be like some superhypermegamonopoly... not that the 2
> beasts are away from it in their respective markets... :P

Hehehehehe, well, it could be something like Mitsubishi (or Computer 
Associates). :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   But they are getting money which would be better spent in improving
> the products.

Your products won't sell if you eliminate the entire marketing department, 
regardless how good they are.

>   Why do you think MS is so hated and eg. Apple isn't?

Because 10x the number of people use MS products as Apple products? Because 
MS *doesn't* control the whole Windows experience and people blame MS for 
the crap software put out by others?

I even hear from people bitching that Microsoft bought their company and 
they wanted to stay in control of it.  Welcome to capitalism - don't sell if 
you don't want it.

> Because Apple doesn't
> use so many glaringly dubious attack tactics and get the hatred of every
> living being on Earth.

... yet.

Or haven't you heard the complaints about iTunes DRM locking it to the iPod, 
the Apple Store being the only source of iPhone software and regulated 
capriciously by Apple, or even the bitching about how hard it was to open up 
the original Mac computers without special tools?

And speaking of FUD, have you watched any of the "Hi, I'm a PC" commercials 
lately? :-)  They're getting embarrassing.

>   If Microsoft (and especially Steve Ballmer) stopped trolling around and
> concentrated only on what they are good at, they could get a better
> reputation.

I don't think so. But we'll have to agree to disagree.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> There's OpenXchange, and another I've heard of called Zimbra, I think.

Neither is really the same thing, any more than Google Mail/Calendar/etc is.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Neither of those is going to stand long.

I see MS doing lots of new things that aren't on Linux, tho. You don't stay 
ahead by not inventing anything new.

> BTW, here the one about how the EU may have finally gotten so annoyed at 
> IE being integrated in MS' machines that they may require new installs 
> to "include" an alternative browser "standard" in all of them? Can't 
> imagine that making things better for them either...

Or, honestly, for the users or browser vendors. At this point, nobody can 
actually *sell* a browser, so I'm not sure what the point of not giving away 
a browser is, or how you decide which of the 8 or 10 popular browsers out 
there you should be including.

Sort of like phone company "competition" here - there are areas where to 
call your neighbor, you have to dial all 10 digits, instead of the usual 7 
for calls within the same city. Why? Because the mobile phone companies 
complained that mobile users had to dial 10 digits, and this was "unfair". 
Since it's impossible to actually improve that, the only way to make it fair 
is to make it equally inconvenient for everyone.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

Darren New escreveu:
> And speaking of FUD, have you watched any of the "Hi, I'm a PC" 
> commercials lately? :-)  They're getting embarrassing.

Apple has style and sense of humour.  Microsoft just looks bland like a 
nondescript beige PC of old... :D

>>   If Microsoft (and especially Steve Ballmer) stopped trolling around and
>> concentrated only on what they are good at, they could get a better
>> reputation.
> 
> I don't think so. But we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think so either.  Microsoft *are* doing what they are good at. ;)

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> I don't see Linux gaining the end user desktop market in the foreseeable
> future.

As someone who runs Linux on his desktop... I agree.

I use KDE 3.5. Yesterday I tried GNOME. Today I tried KDE 4. My opinion
was "I want to go write a desktop environment from scratch NOW! None of the
current ones is any good!"

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Warp wrote:
> (and especially Steve Ballmer)

Also known as Elmer FUD. (I read about that name on a forum, it's *amazing*
how well it fits him)

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Warp escreveu:
>>> 2) Why does Microsoft care about Linux, with its... what? Less than 1% market
>>> share?
> 
>> I think they are more worried about enterprise Linux server installs, 
>> which go beyond that puny 1% mark.
> 
>   Even if 10% of companies used Linux in their servers, how much does
> that mean in the total revenue of Microsoft?
> 
>   I would wildly guess that at least 99% of Windows sales revenues come
> from individuals, the remaining 1% from other companies. If FUD'ing the
> one tenth of companies not using Windows in their servers to switch to
> Windows would succeed, how much would Microsoft's revenue increase?
> Something 0.1%? One thousandth of what they current get.

	I wouldn't be so sure about those figures. See:

http://www.ventureblogalist.com/?p=96
http://www.belshe.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/msftbreakdown.png

	I think it's mostly companies that buy servers and tools.


-- 
Save the whales. Collect the whole set.


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:12:33 -0200, nemesis wrote:
> 
>> nemesis escreveu:
>>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and now
>>>>> they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as the
>>>>> crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>>>
>>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
>> oh, I see, you're actually saying Adobe PWNS Autodesk, right? ;)
> 
> Yeaaaah, yeah, that's what I meant. ;-)

And just when I was going to say that you REALLY drove my point home...

-- 
~Mike

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Nicolas Alvarez escreveu:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>> I don't see Linux gaining the end user desktop market in the foreseeable
>> future.
> 
> As someone who runs Linux on his desktop... I agree.

This comes as a surprise!  Since when, might I ask?

> I use KDE 3.5. Yesterday I tried GNOME. Today I tried KDE 4.

Tomorrow you'll try recompiling the kernel and installing microsoft 
fonts and Office running on wine, right? ;)

I smell a new Linux user temporaly blind by all the geeky 
possibilities... :D

> My opinion
> was "I want to go write a desktop environment from scratch NOW! None of the
> current ones is any good!"

Oh, better than recompiling the kernel, I guess.

BTW, both latest Gnome and KDE 4 are pure finesse when compared to the 
geeky desktop environments I had to cope with in the old days.  Anyone 
remembers when Gnome used to come with Lispy Sawfish and Xeyes? ;)

They also hold up quite well when compared to Vista.  Aqua is another 
level, though...

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:02:58 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> There's OpenXchange, and another I've heard of called Zimbra, I think.
> 
> Neither is really the same thing, any more than Google Mail/Calendar/etc
> is.

I've never really looked in-depth at either of them, but it seems to me 
that if the backend provides the same functionality as Exchange and can 
use an Outlook client, then it should be sufficient.

My understanding (again, not from direct experience) was that those two 
products provided that.

Jim

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On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:24:03 -0600, Mike Raiford wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:12:33 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>> 
>>> nemesis escreveu:
>>>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>>>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:51:23 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Autodesk is the Adobe of 3D software:  AutoCAD, 3DSMax, Maya and
>>>>>> now they also assimilated XSI, much to the dismay of its users as
>>>>>> the crying in many forums worldwide suggests...
>>>>> Autodesk is *owned* by Adobe....
>>>> what?  WHAAATTT??!
>>>>
>>>> seriously, never heard of that before... :O
>>> oh, I see, you're actually saying Adobe PWNS Autodesk, right? ;)
>> 
>> Yeaaaah, yeah, that's what I meant. ;-)
> 
> And just when I was going to say that you REALLY drove my point home...

Hehehehe, well, maybe that's what I meant, subconsciously. ;-)

Jim

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On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:17:31 -0200, nemesis wrote:


>> I don't think so. But we'll have to agree to disagree.
> 
> I don't think so either.  Microsoft *are* doing what they are good at.
> ;)

It's just a question of what you think they're good at. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> My understanding (again, not from direct experience) was that those two 
> products provided that.

They try. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:04:54 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> My understanding (again, not from direct experience) was that those two
>> products provided that.
> 
> They try. :-)

Well, it's also been about 6 years since I ran Exchange for e-mail.  :-)

Jim

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nemesis wrote:

> Nicolas Alvarez escreveu:
>> Mike Raiford wrote:
>>> I don't see Linux gaining the end user desktop market in the foreseeable
>>> future.
>> 
>> As someone who runs Linux on his desktop... I agree.
> 
> This comes as a surprise!  Since when, might I ask?

Not sure. Over 6 months ago. Any idea where that might be stored? Any file
timestamp unlikely to change since install? Since May 2008 it seems, but I
thought it was at least a month later than that...

For what *I* typically do on a computer (which involves a lot of C++
compiling), it's perfect. And my mom can still read her email.

>> I use KDE 3.5. Yesterday I tried GNOME. Today I tried KDE 4.
> 
> Tomorrow you'll try recompiling the kernel and installing microsoft
> fonts and Office running on wine, right? ;)
> 
> I smell a new Linux user temporaly blind by all the geeky
> possibilities... :D

I'm not new; I did admin stuff on a remote server (over ssh) for like a year
before installing Linux on my desktop; and I installed Linux on my desktop
over 6 months ago.

I used KDE 3.5 all the time here. I should update to the next version of
Kubuntu, but that means going to KDE 4 like it or not. I was also trying
GNOME because last time I tried it was years ago. Doesn't seem to have
improved much.

I was comparing because KDE 3.5 isn't really that good. But it seems the
alternatives aren't too much better...

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>  I would wildly guess that at least 99% of Windows sales revenues come
> from individuals, the remaining 1% from other companies. If FUD'ing the
> one tenth of companies not using Windows in their servers to switch to
> Windows would succeed, how much would Microsoft's revenue increase?
> Something 0.1%? One thousandth of what they current get.
>
>  Big deal? I really think MS is just being paranoid and making a lot
> of noise over nothing.

0.1% of what MS currently gets is quite a lot of money, enough to employ 
lots more people, build new offices, maybe even help to payoff the EU some 
more :-)  You can't ignore 0.1% of your total revenue!

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