"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496f260f$1@news.povray.org...
>>> As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
>>> guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is 
>>> real, and not just some automaton.)
>>
>>     Have you done any research on them? If they are as big as they sound, 
>> then there is a phone number there, find it.
>
> There's a phone number for the sales department, and one for finance, and 
> one for marketing, but the one for HR specifically says on it "not for job 
> enquiries".
>
>>      Don't be stupid. You're not a 'nobody'. You have everything going 
>> for you, you're young, clever, and trust me, there's a good job waiting 
>> for you out there somewhere.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Yeah. There are friends too. And probably a girl. They're all out there 
> waiting for me, somewhere.

    They are if you actually go out there and put the flippin' internet down 
for a few days or longerrrrr.


 I just wish I had any idea how in hell to
> *find* all these things... :-(

   People in the know here have already advised you 'many' times as to what 
you could do. You could join a club of some interest to you, (yes, yes, I 
know you've done the dancing 'thing' recently, and good on you for that. 
*See the asterix below for further info).

    *Here it is. :) There's a line dancing club near you. Go join in, it's a 
lot easier than the Cha Cha Cha or the Waltz. They even have days out in the 
Sun. Looks to me as if there is quite a spread of people of all ages. 
Gofrit.

     The thing is Andrew, to me, you seem to be waiting for it to happen to 
'you', and I can tell you now that if you don't get 'out there', it won't 
happen - well, not unless you're the most luckiest guy in the world that is. 
And you're not.

    Time to get 'out there' properly methinks Andrew, and as I said before, 
go for it.

       ~Steve~

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St. wrote:
> They even have days out in the Sun.

Do they actually have sun in the UK?  Or is this one of those words that 
differs between Queen's English and American English? :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server.

Yeah, right...

> I nearly failed my degree.

But you didn't.

> I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do either C or C++, the
> languages used for 98% of all computer programming. I've been coding for
> decades, but I have not one single finished program to show for all my
> efforts.  

I have been coding since I'm 10 years old (ok that's actually less time than
you) and I've yet to finish anyth

> My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No
> matter what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy,
> just constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for
> me to look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive
> if you can't have happiness?

If you can't find a reason for living, at least find an excuse :P

PS: I seriously want to buy that t-shirt that says "I never finish anyth"

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you
> don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".

I also abandon projects when I "get bored of them", so I'm also worried
about what I'll do when I'm being paid to work on a project...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> It just seems that every time I post some long and wordy post about
> something, Warp replies with a 1-line reply saying "you spelt that
> wrong". When I've just spent ages writing something, a meta-comment
> about something that is both obvious and irrelevant isn't what I'm
> really seeking.

It means that's the *only* thing he found wrong!

> My point is that knowing, rationally, that something is true doesn't
> necessarily help you *believe* it. Ever tried rock climbing? Sure, I
> *know* that nothing bad can possibly happen to me... but I'm still
> pretty terrified, all the same! o_O

I've been told that tooth ache is much more painful than tooth removal (with
anesthetic), and rationally I believe it's true. Tooth is still there in my
mouth.

Last time I attempted going to the dentist (like two years ago), I came out
crying and screaming.

...before the dentist even started.

Rational thought sometimes doesn't work...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> You mean, something like this:
> 
> http://www.bash.org/?488793

Or http://qdb.us/294549

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Orchid XP v8 [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> Chambers wrote:
> > DON'T reply to their email... CALL THEM!
> I did. They weren't prepaired to tell me anything.
> 
> And *then* I replied to their email. And still got no useful data.

Yeah, I saw that after I posted.  Tough luck, but kudos for trying.

By the way, what you just did is exactly what you need to do to get a
job.  Just be prepared to have to try it a few times before it works.

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

I'd like to live in Theory.  Everything works there.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
> > Right, now... oh yeah, now I have to actually *send* the letter. Damn,
> > now I remember why I've been holding off all this time. Writing letters
> > sucks! :-/
>
> Well, I got my CV finalised, and wrote *a* letter, but... man, it's
> taken me all afternoon! And it's *still* not that great... Jesus I suck
> at this! :-(

You are a truly intriguing dude.  How come you can't write a friggin' letter
when you post so much interesting or amusing content here all day long,
everyday?!  How come you feel stupid when you're clearly very well equipped in
math and programming?  More than 100 fracking EulerProject problems solved?!
gimme a break...

You may not be the most practical guy in your choices (Haskell rather than C
family languages used in the industry), but other than that you're not alone in
social ineptitude or job problems.

Do you read newspapers, not just the tech section or irrelevant locals?  Might
give you more awareness of what's going on with the world and how to prepare to
deal with it.

Anyway, if you can't find luck in your segment of the industry, how about a
change of area?  The IT industry makes me more depressed each year.  At first I
thought about computers: "What an exceptional tool for self-expression and
seeking of knowledge!", thinking of the many text editors, paint tools and 3D
and music software and the internet.  Today, though, the PC is nothing but an
ordinary magic box common people use just to play stupid games, exchange
standard one-liners with total strangers in search of sex and download
countless porn, bad movie, cheesy music and sucky TV show rips which will never
see the light of day except in a quick zapping through the whole load of shite
once in a while.

I'm thinking, you, being a shy guy, could find yourself perhaps at home in a
publishing house, with a job mostly dealing with writing, text revision or as
technical advisor or something like that.  Just an idea.  Regarding women:
forget love, it's just a stupid social contract.  If you are inexperienced,
just relax and go for a pro:  she'll know what to do and all you gotta do is
enjoy the ride. :)  Really, it'll make better to you than dance lessons with
old people.

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
> > You mean, something like this:
> >
> > http://www.bash.org/?488793
>
> Or http://qdb.us/294549

People depressed enough to think of such stupidity should really just go for it
rather than write about it.

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:4972967f$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> They even have days out in the Sun.
>
> Do they actually have sun in the UK?

     Yes, about 10 days worth if we're lucky. ;)



 Or is this one of those words that
> differs between Queen's English and American English? :-)

    No no, it's the same, it's just that we rarely use it. :)

      ~Steve~


>
> -- 
>   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
>   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
>   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:

>      The thing is Andrew, to me, you seem to be waiting for it to happen to 
> 'you', and I can tell you now that if you don't get 'out there', it won't 
> happen - well, not unless you're the most luckiest guy in the world that is. 
> And you're not.
> 
>     Time to get 'out there' properly methinks Andrew, and as I said before, 
> go for it.

Yes. Because of course, I've *never* tried doing that, have I? :-P

[Actually I've tried all sorts of things to "get out there" and "meet 
people". None of them have worked.]

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:497315a4$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
>>      The thing is Andrew, to me, you seem to be waiting for it to happen 
>> to 'you', and I can tell you now that if you don't get 'out there', it 
>> won't happen - well, not unless you're the most luckiest guy in the world 
>> that is. And you're not.
>>
>>     Time to get 'out there' properly methinks Andrew, and as I said 
>> before, go for it.
>
> Yes. Because of course, I've *never* tried doing that, have I? :-P

      But you don't do anything *consistantly*! You're flittering from here 
to there like a blue-assed fly and not giving anything a chance. How do you 
think you're going to meet someone when you're not there the next time. It 
can take months, even years to 'get to know' someone. I was listening to the 
radio a few weeks ago about relationships, the subject was along the lines 
of "Can a relationship work when you're friends first". IIRC, there was a 
lady talking about the man she now loves and is happily married to, but they 
were friends for something like 20 years before they got together.

  Point is, you've just got to give something time, choose something that 
you like doing, and stick with it.


>
> [Actually I've tried all sorts of things to "get out there" and "meet 
> people". None of them have worked.]

    Well, sorry, but there must be something wrong with you. When I met you 
in London, you were a bag of nerves. It seemed to me that nearly everything 
frightened you, worried you, like you've never met *anyone* in your life. 
That's something that you're just going to *have* to defeat because it 
really isn't good for you.

    To be honest, I seriously wonder how you would be if you did get a 
girlfriend, really. Over possessive? You're gonna have to watch that one, 
it's a killer for the girls. When she wants to go clubbing until all hours 
of the morning, and you don't, how are going to feel and handle it? I could 
go on, there's a huge list that you just don't know about yet, but I won't 
spoil it for you, lol. ;)

    Honestly, get out of your mums house, just get out, out, out. And don't 
give that rubbish about not being able to afford it, you can afford a place 
easily. You just don't get it though do you. If you moved out, your life 
*changes*, and probably dramatically, whether for good or bad, but at least 
whichever way it goes, it will be *your* decisions in which way you go in 
life, and nothing to do with your mum.

   Potential Girlfriend: "Where do you live Andy?" <------- This is VERY 
good. +1

   Andy: "At home with my Mum."  <------- This is NOT good. -1

   PG: "Oh..."  <------- This is NOT good. -1

    You see?

   Find a place close to your works, that way, you'll save a load on fuel at 
least.


       ~Steve~




>
> -- 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> Yes. Because of course, I've *never* tried doing that, have I? :-P
> 
>       But you don't do anything *consistantly*! You're flittering from here 
> to there like a blue-assed fly and not giving anything a chance.

I spent 6 months doing drawing classes. Not that it helped any.

After all the time, effort and money I've wasted on this, it really 
makes me angry when people tell me I'm "not trying". I've *tried* 
everything I can damned think of! I'm not doing anything now because I 
can't think of anything more to try.

> It can take months, even years to 'get to know' someone.

Well there seem to be plenty of people where I work who have been there 
only a month or two and are already best mates with just about 
everybody. But I've been there for *years*, and still nobody wants to 
know me.

> IIRC, there was a 
> lady talking about the man she now loves and is happily married to, but they 
> were friends for something like 20 years before they got together.

Well when I was at uni, most of the guys in my class were my age, and 
not married. Now all of the ones I still have data on are married. Only 
a few years later.

>> [Actually I've tried all sorts of things to "get out there" and "meet 
>> people". None of them have worked.]
> 
>     Well, sorry, but there must be something wrong with you.

Yeah, thanks. Rub it in why don't you?

Well, there are two possibilities:

1. Accept that I have an incurable brain malfunction, and thus I will 
never be able to make friends. Thus, there is no reason for me to 
continue to be alive, and I might as well die now.

2. Assume that there's some way around the problem, and I just need to 
find it.

I'm currently going with the latter...

> When I met you 
> in London, you were a bag of nerves. It seemed to me that nearly everything 
> frightened you, worried you, like you've never met *anyone* in your life. 

Guess what? I *have* almost never met anybody. And the few people I have 
met have almost all reacted very negatively to me.

Besides, I was under the impression that it's "normal" to be nervous 
when you're standing around on your own somewhere, not sure where you're 
going, surrounded by strangers. I mean, unless you're super-confident...

> That's something that you're just going to *have* to defeat because it 
> really isn't good for you.

Yeah, I had worked that one out. That's like the government saying 
"banks need to start lending money again". Doesn't fix the problem.

>     To be honest, I seriously wonder how you would be if you did get a 
> girlfriend, really.

I guess we'll never know, will we?

> Over possessive?

Perhaps.

I'm told it's a common problem for beginners and they gradually get over 
it. Of course, most "beginners" aren't 30 - more like 13...

> When she wants to go clubbing until all hours 
> of the morning, and you don't, how are going to feel and handle it?

How about I go out with somebody who actually likes the same things as 
me? Isn't that what most people do?

> I could 
> go on, there's a huge list that you just don't know about yet, but I won't 
> spoil it for you, lol. ;)

Yeah. My mum always goes to great lengths to remind me that I'd be a 
terrible boyfriend and that I should just give up, etc.

>     Honestly, get out of your mums house, just get out, out, out.

Yes, because then I'd be broke and I'd have no reason to speak to 
*anybody* ever again. I can see how that would solve all my problems.

> And don't 
> give that rubbish about not being able to afford it, you can afford a place 
> easily.

FWIW, I did actually get as far as talking to a finance advisor about 
this. The conclusion was that actually... no, I can't afford it, 
realistically.

> You just don't get it though do you. If you moved out, your life 
> *changes*, and probably dramatically, whether for good or bad, but at least 
> whichever way it goes, it will be *your* decisions in which way you go in 
> life, and nothing to do with your mum.

Have you *met* my mum?? Unless I move to, say, THE MOON, she is still 
going to control my life. Nobody can escape her... >_<

(My sister moved to Hull - do you know where Hull is? - and she still 
got harassed at least once a week.)

>    Potential Girlfriend: "Where do you live Andy?" <------- This is VERY 
> good. +1
> 
>    Andy: "At home with my Mum."  <------- This is NOT good. -1
> 
>    PG: "Oh..."  <------- This is NOT good. -1
> 
>     You see?

Actually, Kate said "oh, so do I". :-P

>    Find a place close to your works, that way, you'll save a load on fuel at 
> least.

Or, better yet, find a job somewhere nicer, that pays *actual money*, 
and then move there?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49734001$1@news.povray.org...
>>> Yes. Because of course, I've *never* tried doing that, have I? :-P
>>
>>       But you don't do anything *consistantly*! You're flittering from 
>> here to there like a blue-assed fly and not giving anything a chance.
>
> I spent 6 months doing drawing classes. Not that it helped any.

    Six months, and you never made a friend, male or female??


>
> After all the time, effort and money I've wasted on this, it really makes 
> me angry when people tell me I'm "not trying". I've *tried* everything I 
> can damned think of! I'm not doing anything now because I can't think of 
> anything more to try.

     Are you any good at sports? Are you a good runner? Have you tried your 
local athletics club or sports club? If you want to meet girls, get down 
that track. About 10 years ago, I ran two laps of our local track for a 
charity and there were plenty of girls there limbering up. Go where the 
girls are, make friends, and take it from there.


>
>> It can take months, even years to 'get to know' someone.
>
> Well there seem to be plenty of people where I work who have been there 
> only a month or two and are already best mates with just about everybody. 
> But I've been there for *years*, and still nobody wants to know me.

      No, you *assume* that they are best mates. Yes, some might be, but to 
be honest, most there will have 'best mates' outside of work.


>
>> IIRC, there was a lady talking about the man she now loves and is happily 
>> married to, but they were friends for something like 20 years before they 
>> got together.
>
> Well when I was at uni, most of the guys in my class were my age, and not 
> married. Now all of the ones I still have data on are married. Only a few 
> years later.

     Because they went out, and enjoyed themselves meeting all kinds of 
people and you didn't, you stayed in learning your computer.


>
>>> [Actually I've tried all sorts of things to "get out there" and "meet 
>>> people". None of them have worked.]
>>
>>     Well, sorry, but there must be something wrong with you.
>
> Yeah, thanks. Rub it in why don't you?

     Look, sorry you didn't like that Andrew, but mate, that's life. I would 
say the same thing to you if you were in front of me right now. I'm not 
trying to upset you, I'm trying to help you but you almost seem helpless. 
It's like we throw good idea's and suggestions at you and you go dancing 
with grannies! (And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that). Do you 
think these guys on here are stupid or something? They're not, most of them 
have seen some life and they're trying to help you as best they can, and 
really, I can't remember one suggestion from any of them that wouldn't help 
you.


>
> Well, there are two possibilities:
>
> 1. Accept that I have an incurable brain malfunction, and thus I will 
> never be able to make friends. Thus, there is no reason for me to continue 
> to be alive, and I might as well die now.

      The very fact that you can think like this does you no favours at all.


>
> 2. Assume that there's some way around the problem, and I just need to 
> find it.
>
> I'm currently going with the latter...

  Well, that's good because if you topped yourself, you would never know 
what you'll be doing in 10 years time. :)


>
>> When I met you in London, you were a bag of nerves. It seemed to me that 
>> nearly everything frightened you, worried you, like you've never met 
>> *anyone* in your life.
>
> Guess what? I *have* almost never met anybody. And the few people I have 
> met have almost all reacted very negatively to me.

    You have to ask yourself *WHY?* When Stephen, John and myself  met you, 
did we react negatively towards you? NO. No we didn't, we thought you were a 
great guy apart from your over-the-top nerves which I at least thought was 
kind of strange, but it didn't stop me liking you, and I still like you, I 
think you're a great guy and if I lived anywhere near you, I'd probably be 
your best mate right now. You know why? Because I care.


>
> Besides, I was under the impression that it's "normal" to be nervous when 
> you're standing around on your own somewhere, not sure where you're going, 
> surrounded by strangers. I mean, unless you're super-confident...

    It IS normal to be nervous! I was, very. And then 5 minutes later, that 
went out the window. I felt very comfortable with all three of you and would 
love to meet you all again. You see, I don't care what 'you' think of me, it 
doesn't even enter my head. When I meet someone, of course, I hope that I 
give an ok impression of myself, and I don't think I've let anyone down yet 
in that respect. If someone doesn't like me, then that's their loss, I don't 
take it to heart, and never will.


>
>> That's something that you're just going to *have* to defeat because it 
>> really isn't good for you.
>
> Yeah, I had worked that one out. That's like the government saying "banks 
> need to start lending money again". Doesn't fix the problem.

     Oh come on, that's a bad example to use.


>
>>     To be honest, I seriously wonder how you would be if you did get a 
>> girlfriend, really.
>
> I guess we'll never know, will we?

     You see? You just nail it to the floor nearly every time. Just stop it 
and be positive.

>
>> Over possessive?
>
> Perhaps.
>
> I'm told it's a common problem for beginners and they gradually get over 
> it. Of course, most "beginners" aren't 30 - more like 13...

    You think there aren't others that don't have partners when they're your 
age?? I can bet you that there are PLENTY.

     Join a dating club!! Do one of those speed dating evenings! You'll meet 
people your age that are LOOKING for a date!!

    I quite fancy that myself, lol. :)


>
>> When she wants to go clubbing until all hours of the morning, and you 
>> don't, how are going to feel and handle it?
>
> How about I go out with somebody who actually likes the same things as me? 
> Isn't that what most people do?

    Not a necessity at all, but just how are you going to find someone that 
is interested in Haskell, computers, 3D graphics and organs. You see, you're 
limiting yourself with the things that you like. You've got to broaden your 
horizons.


>
>> I could go on, there's a huge list that you just don't know about yet, 
>> but I won't spoil it for you, lol. ;)
>
> Yeah. My mum always goes to great lengths to remind me that I'd be a 
> terrible boyfriend and that I should just give up, etc.

     I didn't mean that, I meant even if you get with someone, there's a 
huge list of things that might crop up like pregnancy, sharing the bills, 
laziness on her part, bad cooking, alcohol, smoking, you're the bread 
winner, and she doesn't want to work, or won't look for work, and what if 
you only have one computer and she wants to go on it for hours on end, gonna 
let her?

    There are many many more.


>
>>     Honestly, get out of your mums house, just get out, out, out.
>
> Yes, because then I'd be broke and I'd have no reason to speak to 
> *anybody* ever again. I can see how that would solve all my problems.

    <Sigh> Will you just give over?? Just do it. I bet you'll thank me in a 
years time. What do you think it will be like? Hell? No, it won't be, but in 
all honesty mate, if you can't do it now at your age, then how in hell will 
you do it when you meet someone??

    I left home when I was nearly 17. I did it to give my grandparents a 
break. I got a job as a waiter in an agricultural college. I lived in and my 
board and meals were free. Did I worry what was going to happen to me? No, I 
didn't. I lost that job about two years later (lol, youth) and was forced to 
find a place of my own which I did. I was then coming up to 20 years old. I 
was into motorbikes back then and met so many other bikers that became 
friends, both male and female. That's how I met Jo, my wife. It hasn't been 
a great journey, I can tell you that for nothing, and I never expected it to 
be because I knew way back then that nothing is perfect in life and there 
would always be barriers to deal with, and you know what? I'm still dealing 
with those barriers even now.


>
>> And don't give that rubbish about not being able to afford it, you can 
>> afford a place easily.
>
> FWIW, I did actually get as far as talking to a finance advisor about 
> this. The conclusion was that actually... no, I can't afford it, 
> realistically.

    You went to an advisor to work that out?? You couldn't do it yourself? 
What is it that you *expect* when you want to rent somewhere? An exclusive 
pad with a jacuzzi? No, for your first place, expect a small room somewhere 
with the possibility of shared bathroom facilities. That's going to be your 
cheapest place to start.



>
>> You just don't get it though do you. If you moved out, your life 
>> *changes*, and probably dramatically, whether for good or bad, but at 
>> least whichever way it goes, it will be *your* decisions in which way you 
>> go in life, and nothing to do with your mum.
>
> Have you *met* my mum?? Unless I move to, say, THE MOON, she is still 
> going to control my life. Nobody can escape her... >_<

    Tell her to keep her nose out of your business. She IS a big part of 
your problem. It's almost like she doesn't want to be alone. (That is, if I 
understand it right, that your parents have split up?)

   If so, that's deadly for you.


>
> (My sister moved to Hull - do you know where Hull is? - and she still got 
> harassed at least once a week.)
>
>>    Potential Girlfriend: "Where do you live Andy?" <------- This is VERY 
>> good. +1
>>
>>    Andy: "At home with my Mum."  <------- This is NOT good. -1
>>
>>    PG: "Oh..."  <------- This is NOT good. -1
>>
>>     You see?
>
> Actually, Kate said "oh, so do I". :-P

     Ok, fine, I'm sure that you'll find a much bigger percentage of girls 
do live at home still, other than blokes. And how old is Kate?


>
>>    Find a place close to your works, that way, you'll save a load on fuel 
>> at least.
>
> Or, better yet, find a job somewhere nicer, that pays *actual money*, and 
> then move there?

   You getting another job and actually doing some work for a change is a 
whole new issue.

       ~Steve~



>
> -- 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:
> lady talking about the man she now loves and is happily married to, but they 
> were friends for something like 20 years before they got together.

When Sally Met Harry.  Good movie.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> never be able to make friends. Thus, there is no reason for me to 
> continue to be alive, and I might as well die now.

> Besides, I was under the impression that it's "normal" to be nervous 
> when you're standing around on your own somewhere, not sure where you're 
> going, surrounded by strangers. I mean, unless you're super-confident...

If there is no reason to continue to be alive, there is no reason to be 
nervous about anything anywhere. Go someplace, get out of the car, start 
walking, and go "hey, the worst that happens is I die, and I don't have to 
worry about anything any more."  :-)

[Yes, I'm actually serious about this.]

> Yeah. My mum always goes to great lengths to remind me that I'd be a 
> terrible boyfriend and that I should just give up, etc.

Your mum sounds like half the problem. Get over it. :-)

> (My sister moved to Hull - do you know where Hull is? - and she still 
> got harassed at least once a week.)

You need to take Mum by the horns, methinks. Hard to do when you live at 
home, tho.

> Or, better yet, find a job somewhere nicer, that pays *actual money*, 
> and then move there?

That too.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:51:09 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>> > You mean, something like this:
>> >
>> > http://www.bash.org/?488793
>>
>> Or http://qdb.us/294549
> 
> People depressed enough to think of such stupidity should really just go
> for it rather than write about it.

I'm amazed by your statement here.  What would your God say?  Where's the 
compassion?

People depressed enough to think of such stupidity need help.  The 
shouldn't "really just go for it", they should seek qualified help.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:43:15 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>> When she wants to go clubbing until all hours of the morning, and you
>> don't, how are going to feel and handle it?
> 
> How about I go out with somebody who actually likes the same things as
> me? Isn't that what most people do?

There's a difference between "going out with someone who likes the same 
things as me" and "going out with someone who never does anything other 
than what I do".

My wife and I spend a fair amount of our days at opposite ends of the 
house (partially because my home office is in the back, and she likes to 
work on her laptop at the dining room table).  We like some of the same 
things, but there are things that don't overlap.

*That* is pretty normal.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:24:14 +0000, St. wrote:

>> Well there seem to be plenty of people where I work who have been there
>> only a month or two and are already best mates with just about
>> everybody. But I've been there for *years*, and still nobody wants to
>> know me.
> 
>       No, you *assume* that they are best mates. Yes, some might be, but
>       to
> be honest, most there will have 'best mates' outside of work.

Agreed.  The thing I've found interesting as I've moved from job to job 
is the speed with which one disconnects from coworkers' lives.

There are a very few I keep in touch with from older jobs, but generally, 
people I would go to lunch with every day and have great conversations 
with I just don't talk to any more.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:49738adb$1@news.povray.org...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:24:14 +0000, St. wrote:
>
>>> Well there seem to be plenty of people where I work who have been there
>>> only a month or two and are already best mates with just about
>>> everybody. But I've been there for *years*, and still nobody wants to
>>> know me.
>>
>>       No, you *assume* that they are best mates. Yes, some might be, but
>>       to
>> be honest, most there will have 'best mates' outside of work.
>
> Agreed.  The thing I've found interesting as I've moved from job to job
> is the speed with which one disconnects from coworkers' lives.

    You're not kidding. I know so many people that I could have easily been 
long-time friends with long after I left my places of employment. There's 
one guy that I really want to get in touch with one day, (notice I said "one 
day" lol. You know what I mean.) His nickname was 'Speed' because to us, 
(his workmates) he was so slow at doing his job. Well, back then he was a 
great guy, but now, I really don't have a clue as to what he's like, but in 
truth, he probably isn't as slow as he was, and I bet he would smile if I 
met him and called him by his nickname again. :)


>
> There are a very few I keep in touch with from older jobs, but generally,
> people I would go to lunch with every day and have great conversations
> with I just don't talk to any more.

 Yep, that's how it goes unfortunately. I think you and I could agree that 
we just 'move on'. (Which in a weird sort of way is supposed to happen in 
life I think. I don't know, call it 'progression' if you like).

     ~Steve~


>
> Jim

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:497381da$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> lady talking about the man she now loves and is happily married to, but 
>> they were friends for something like 20 years before they got together.
>
> When Sally Met Harry.  Good movie.

 Wasn't it the other way around? "When Harry met Sally"? Whatever, I really 
should watch that film all the way through. I think I've only seen the first 
half or so and then fell asleep! (Tiredness, not boredom).

   ~Steve~


>
> -- 
>   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
>   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
>   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:05:49 +0000, St. wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:49738adb$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:24:14 +0000, St. wrote:
>>
>>>> Well there seem to be plenty of people where I work who have been
>>>> there only a month or two and are already best mates with just about
>>>> everybody. But I've been there for *years*, and still nobody wants to
>>>> know me.
>>>
>>>       No, you *assume* that they are best mates. Yes, some might be,
>>>       but to
>>> be honest, most there will have 'best mates' outside of work.
>>
>> Agreed.  The thing I've found interesting as I've moved from job to job
>> is the speed with which one disconnects from coworkers' lives.
> 
>     You're not kidding. I know so many people that I could have easily
>     been
> long-time friends with long after I left my places of employment.

That's one of the things I find interesting about business social 
networking sites like LinkedIn.  Just plugging in names of coworkers/
vendors/etc I've worked with over the years yielded some very interesting 
results.  Interesting to see where people have moved on to.

>> There are a very few I keep in touch with from older jobs, but
>> generally, people I would go to lunch with every day and have great
>> conversations with I just don't talk to any more.
> 
>  Yep, that's how it goes unfortunately. I think you and I could agree
>  that
> we just 'move on'. (Which in a weird sort of way is supposed to happen
> in life I think. I don't know, call it 'progression' if you like).

Yeah, but I also think that it's more a sort of "new group of people".  
With my last change in employer, I did something I had never done before 
- I actually went to lunch with my old team a couple times after I 
started the new job.

It was really weird - the discussion at lunch revolved briefly around 
"so, what's new with you, Jim?" and then turned back to the goings on 
(projects and so on) they were working on.  I felt very much like an 
outsider, and it made sense:  I was an outsider.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Rational thought sometimes doesn't work...

Indeed.

Maybe that explains why the human race has managed to travel to the 
moon, and yet we're still so screwed up? :-/

Post a reply to this message

> Don't you go to meetings with your Counterstrike clan?

Yeah. Once a year I see a few of them for a day or two.

> They count as friends.  I *wish* I had a regular group of people to play
> online with... my entire Xbox friends list is 3 people, and I don't
> think I've played online against a single one of them...

Weird thing is, on the Valve community, random people you've never heard 
of keep asking to be your friends... pretty odd, IMHO.


(As an aside... It seems everybody is playing TF2 instead of CSS now.)

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:

> There's a difference between "going out with someone who likes the same 
> things as me" and "going out with someone who never does anything other 
> than what I do".

Agreed. But having *something* in common would seem sensible. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> Your mum sounds like half the problem. Get over it. :-)

Yeah, no kidding.

> You need to take Mum by the horns, methinks. Hard to do when you live at 
> home, tho.

Er, yeah.

"You don't own me!"

"Would you like to be homeless?"

>> Or, better yet, find a job somewhere nicer, that pays *actual money*, 
>> and then move there?
> 
> That too.

That's my current Master Plan. It's not working very well...

I'm debating contacting some of the stars of the Haskell community and 
seeing if they can help me out in some way. But I think I know what the 
answer will be. (Surely I cannot possibly be the first person to have 
this idea!)

Post a reply to this message

Chambers wrote:

> By the way, what you just did is exactly what you need to do to get a
> job.  Just be prepared to have to try it a few times before it works.

Yeah, now I just need to find more people to apply to... :-}

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server.
> 
> Yeah, right...

We did a test, remember? I was the only person to score less than 120.

>> I nearly failed my degree.
> 
> But you didn't.

Thank God! I would be *pissed* if I spent 4 years doing something and 
had nothing to show for it... >_<

>> I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do either C or C++, the
>> languages used for 98% of all computer programming. I've been coding for
>> decades, but I have not one single finished program to show for all my
>> efforts.  
> 
> I have been coding since I'm 10 years old (ok that's actually less time than
> you) and I've yet to finish anyth

LOL!

Well I've been coding since I was 9, so there. :-P

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:44:04 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>>> I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server.
>> 
>> Yeah, right...
>
>We did a test, remember? I was the only person to score less than 120.

The only person to post a score of less than 120, maybe ;)

I don't remember the thread and even if I saw it I wouldn't believe the results.
IQ is a flawed concept, anyway. It depends a lot on the test's social
assumptions and factors including the parental social status of the person
taking the test.

And while your whinging, I've probably got the lowest educational achievements
here, especially for a consultant (no job security). 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>> I spent 6 months doing drawing classes. Not that it helped any.
> 
>     Six months, and you never made a friend, male or female??

Nope.

In fairness, there *was* only 6 of us. Four of us were pensioners (Not 
that there's anything *wrong* with that, you understand.) The girl was 
cute though. But despite my efforts, I never actually managed to get 
into a conversation with her. (It turns out drawing isn't very sociable; 
lots of intensely concentrating on what you're doing, not much talking 
to other people.)

I wouldn't mind, but I didn't even improve my drawing skills... :-(

>      Are you any good at sports?

No.

> Are you a good runner?

Moderately good at sprinting. Hopeless at long distance.

Actually, I'm better at jumping. Long or high. I have long legs, you see...

> Have you tried your 
> local athletics club or sports club? If you want to meet girls, get down 
> that track. About 10 years ago, I ran two laps of our local track for a 
> charity and there were plenty of girls there limbering up. Go where the 
> girls are, make friends, and take it from there.

Nice idea, but... I'm not good at running, and I certainly don't enjoy it.

That's why I went for dancing. Why do something you hate? And people 
have been telling me for years that dance classes are The Ultimate Way 
To Meet Girls. As with every other such suggestion, this one has now 
been thoroughly falsified. But I intend to keep going anyway...

>> Well there seem to be plenty of people where I work who have been there 
>> only a month or two and are already best mates with just about everybody. 
>> But I've been there for *years*, and still nobody wants to know me.
> 
>       No, you *assume* that they are best mates. Yes, some might be, but to 
> be honest, most there will have 'best mates' outside of work.

Well, they all have each other's phone numbers, hang out at each other's 
houses, recently several of them went to one of the weddings, etc. 
Nobody extends that kind of friendliness towards me. Indeed, I'm lucky 
if I can get a few syllables of conversation. (But yes, they probably 
have loads more friends outside work too.)

>> Well when I was at uni, most of the guys in my class were my age, and not 
>> married. Now all of the ones I still have data on are married. Only a few 
>> years later.
> 
>      Because they went out, and enjoyed themselves meeting all kinds of 
> people and you didn't, you stayed in learning your computer.

And now I've missed my chance, so it's too late. Yay, me. :-(

>>>     Well, sorry, but there must be something wrong with you.

>> Yeah, thanks. Rub it in why don't you?
> 
>      Look, sorry you didn't like that Andrew, but mate, that's life. I would 
> say the same thing to you if you were in front of me right now. I'm not 
> trying to upset you, I'm trying to help you but you almost seem helpless. 
> It's like we throw good idea's and suggestions at you and you go dancing 
> with grannies! (And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that). Do you 
> think these guys on here are stupid or something? They're not, most of them 
> have seen some life and they're trying to help you as best they can, and 
> really, I can't remember one suggestion from any of them that wouldn't help 
> you.

Yeah, and I try these things, and they don't work. And yet still people 
tell me that I'm "not trying". What do you want? Blood??

I realise most of the people saying these things are just trying to 
help, but seriously... I've tried a whole lot of stuff. It isn't working 
for me. I don't know why, but it isn't. I'm doing my best here, and 
telling me that I'm not trying is just upsetting.

>> Guess what? I *have* almost never met anybody. And the few people I have 
>> met have almost all reacted very negatively to me.
> 
>     You have to ask yourself *WHY?*

I don't know. Because I'm not a beer-drinking football hooligan? Because 
I'm a shy, quiet, introverted male with unconventional interests? 
Because I'm ugly? Because I'm boring? Because I talk like a robot? 
Because I'm not a fearless people-magnet? I honestly don't know.

> When Stephen, John and myself  met you, 
> did we react negatively towards you? NO. No we didn't, we thought you were a 
> great guy apart from your over-the-top nerves which I at least thought was 
> kind of strange, but it didn't stop me liking you, and I still like you, I 
> think you're a great guy and if I lived anywhere near you, I'd probably be 
> your best mate right now. You know why? Because I care.

Nice to know that somebody does...

Unfortunately, it turns out that almost everybody who "likes" me lives 
absolultely nowhere near me. I keep trying to change that, but it's not 
happening.

>     It IS normal to be nervous! I was, very. And then 5 minutes later, that 
> went out the window. I felt very comfortable with all three of you and would 
> love to meet you all again. You see, I don't care what 'you' think of me, it 
> doesn't even enter my head. When I meet someone, of course, I hope that I 
> give an ok impression of myself, and I don't think I've let anyone down yet 
> in that respect. If someone doesn't like me, then that's their loss, I don't 
> take it to heart, and never will.

Well, you're a lot braver than I am. (Actually most humans are for that 
matter...)

>      Oh come on, that's a bad example to use.

My point being, *knowing* you shouldn't be afraid does nothing to make 
you feel better.

>>> Over possessive?
>> Perhaps.
>>
>> I'm told it's a common problem for beginners and they gradually get over 
>> it. Of course, most "beginners" aren't 30 - more like 13...
> 
>     You think there aren't others that don't have partners when they're your 
> age?? I can bet you that there are PLENTY.

I'm sure there are lots of people of all ages who don't have a partner 
*right now*. But almost all of these people have *had* one at some 
point. I haven't yet. (And almost all of these people have *friends* 
too. Not many people spend their entire lives in solitary confinement.)

>      Join a dating club!! Do one of those speed dating evenings! You'll meet 
> people your age that are LOOKING for a date!!

Yep, done that. Several times. Didn't work.

I've signed up to every Internet dating website going. I've been to no 
less than 8 seperate speed dating events. (I was the youngest person by 
roughly 10 years, and the ladies were all well outnumbered.) I've been 
to several singles nights. I even joined in with the salsa lessons 
there, even though I was terrified. Heck, I even walked onto the dance 
floor when that cute girl beckoned me over, even though the floor was 
empty and the entire room was watching me. None of it did me any good.

I seriously think some people here think I never do anything to attempt 
to meet people. IT'S NOT TRUE!

Marcus invited me to a party. I went along, even though I was terrified. 
He promised the place would be loaded with girls. It was - they were all 
about 14. Marcus invited me to go clumbing with him. I went along. (And 
managed to convince his climbing buddy that I'm a moron.) It's not like 
I don't ever try things.

>> How about I go out with somebody who actually likes the same things as me? 
>> Isn't that what most people do?
> 
>     Not a necessity at all, but just how are you going to find someone that 
> is interested in Haskell, computers, 3D graphics and organs. You see, you're 
> limiting yourself with the things that you like. You've got to broaden your 
> horizons.

Well, I like skiing, and I've already met several of Marcus's female 
buddies who are into that. Ditto for rock climbing. Surely it can't be 
*that* hard to find somebody reasonably compatible with me. (Granted, 
finding somebody compatible enough to spend your entire life with is 
much, much harder. Even normal people struggle with that one...)

>      I didn't mean that, I meant even if you get with someone, there's a 
> huge list of things that might crop up like pregnancy, sharing the bills, 
> laziness on her part, bad cooking, alcohol, smoking, you're the bread 
> winner, and she doesn't want to work, or won't look for work, and what if 
> you only have one computer and she wants to go on it for hours on end, gonna 
> let her?
> 
>     There are many many more.

I'm not sure I get what your point is.

>     <Sigh> Will you just give over?? Just do it. I bet you'll thank me in a 
> years time. What do you think it will be like? Hell? No, it won't be, but in 
> all honesty mate, if you can't do it now at your age, then how in hell will 
> you do it when you meet someone??

Like I said, I figured I'd get a job that pays real money, and then move 
out. That way I might stand a chance.

I do want to leave, but I do *not* want to leave, end up completely 
bankrupt, and be forced to crawl back again. I'd never hear the end of it...

>> FWIW, I did actually get as far as talking to a finance advisor about 
>> this. The conclusion was that actually... no, I can't afford it, 
>> realistically.
> 
>     You went to an advisor to work that out?? You couldn't do it yourself? 

Is there something *wrong* with asking an expert rather than relying on 
your own judgement? (And you'd think it would be in the expert's best 
interests to say "yes" if at all feasible... But that's not what he said.)

> What is it that you *expect* when you want to rent somewhere? An exclusive 
> pad with a jacuzzi? No, for your first place, expect a small room somewhere 
> with the possibility of shared bathroom facilities. That's going to be your 
> cheapest place to start.

Certainly I can't afford a palace, and I wasn't expecting to. But when I 
looked into it, it seemed there was *nothing* I could actually afford.

That was at the height of the housing boom. Maybe the credit crunch will 
force prices out of lah-lah land and back into the real world?

>> Have you *met* my mum?? Unless I move to, say, THE MOON, she is still 
>> going to control my life. Nobody can escape her... >_<
> 
>     Tell her to keep her nose out of your business. She IS a big part of 
> your problem. It's almost like she doesn't want to be alone.

In fairness, I think my mum is a big part of *everybody's* problems.

>> Or, better yet, find a job somewhere nicer, that pays *actual money*, and 
>> then move there?
> 
>    You getting another job and actually doing some work for a change is a 
> whole new issue.

You telling me I'm lazy now?

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49746599$1@news.povray.org...

>>    You getting another job and actually doing some work for a change is a 
>> whole new issue.
>
> You telling me I'm lazy now?

 LOL, no, not at all, but I think you'll have a shock if you get a job that 
pays good money. They'll keep you on your toes for their money, that's for 
sure, but I'm sure you could handle it. :)

  Seriously though, if you use their internet the way that you have been 
with your present company, and they find out, you may be out of a job 
quicker than you think. That's all.

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>> You telling me I'm lazy now?
> 
>  LOL, no, not at all, but I think you'll have a shock if you get a job that 
> pays good money. They'll keep you on your toes for their money, that's for 
> sure, but I'm sure you could handle it. :)

As ridiculous as that sounds... I could actually go for some interesting 
challenges to tackle. Right now I'm *inventing* them.

Need to back up that server? Maybe we could use the COPY command? Or 
perhaps I could design, implement and test a program written in Haskell 
to do the job?

Want to allow others to check whether the backup job succeeded? Maybe I 
could delegate some admin rights? Or maybe I could develop an MS-DOS 
script that scans the log folder, finds the newest job log, copies it to 
a temporary folder, concanenates it with a custom-written PostScript 
program implementing a text-formatting engine, thus transforming the 
text file into a PostScript page description, map LPT2: to a network 
printer, and copy the file to that, thus printing it?

Need a cup of coffee? Maybe I could... uh... implement some kind of Tcl 
script to... er... tell you when it's coffee time or something?

Kinda running out of ideas here...

>   Seriously though, if you use their internet the way that you have been 
> with your present company, and they find out, you may be out of a job 
> quicker than you think. That's all.

Well let's hope I can find a job that involves me doing stuff that's 
more interesting than loafing around a newserver, eh? ;-)

(Surely that can't be especially hard...? A job being more interesting, 
that is. FINDING could be quite hard.)

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49746c99$1@news.povray.org...
>>> You telling me I'm lazy now?
>>
>>  LOL, no, not at all, but I think you'll have a shock if you get a job 
>> that pays good money. They'll keep you on your toes for their money, 
>> that's for sure, but I'm sure you could handle it. :)
>
> As ridiculous as that sounds... I could actually go for some interesting 
> challenges to tackle. Right now I'm *inventing* them.
>
> Need to back up that server? Maybe we could use the COPY command? Or 
> perhaps I could design, implement and test a program written in Haskell to 
> do the job?
>
> Want to allow others to check whether the backup job succeeded? Maybe I 
> could delegate some admin rights? Or maybe I could develop an MS-DOS 
> script that scans the log folder, finds the newest job log, copies it to a 
> temporary folder, concanenates it with a custom-written PostScript program 
> implementing a text-formatting engine, thus transforming the text file 
> into a PostScript page description, map LPT2: to a network printer, and 
> copy the file to that, thus printing it?


  There, you see? To me, you're a damn clever guy. There's no way on this 
earth that I could do anything like that.


>
> Need a cup of coffee? Maybe I could... uh... implement some kind of Tcl 
> script to... er... tell you when it's coffee time or something?


 LOL, yeah, I need some coffee right now... :)


>
> Kinda running out of ideas here...
>
>>   Seriously though, if you use their internet the way that you have been 
>> with your present company, and they find out, you may be out of a job 
>> quicker than you think. That's all.
>
> Well let's hope I can find a job that involves me doing stuff that's more 
> interesting than loafing around a newserver, eh? ;-)
>
> (Surely that can't be especially hard...? A job being more interesting, 
> that is. FINDING could be quite hard.)

      I really don't see your problem, you have the knowledge and skill no 
doubt about that. Just keep trying, and apply for *loads* of jobs! And not 
just the big companies, try smaller companies too. You'll get there!  :)

    Hey, just thought, have you tried BT? They pay good money and there 
might be something for you with them.

       ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>> Want to allow others to check whether the backup job succeeded? Maybe I 
>> could delegate some admin rights? Or maybe I could develop an MS-DOS 
>> script that scans the log folder, finds the newest job log, copies it to a 
>> temporary folder, concanenates it with a custom-written PostScript program 
>> implementing a text-formatting engine, thus transforming the text file 
>> into a PostScript page description, map LPT2: to a network printer, and 
>> copy the file to that, thus printing it?
> 
>   There, you see? To me, you're a damn clever guy. There's no way on this 
> earth that I could do anything like that.

As I've mentioned, one day I got bored so I learned PostScript in my 
lunchbreak. Depending on how you look at it, this was

- A waste of company time.
- Learning a new skill which later came in handy.
- A solution looking for a problem.

Actually, *originally* it just printed the raw text files. But for some 
reason, when our printer prints raw text, it cuts the edge off the 
printout so the first 2.5 characters of each line are unreadable. It 
also allows long lines to run off the edge of the page rather than 
wrapping them.

So I built a custom PostScript text formatting engine. The concatenation 
turns the original text file into a PostScript string literal. The main 
PostScript program then parses this string, breaking it into pages, 
putting running headers and sane margins on the pages, and line-wrapping 
any long lines (with visual markers to let you know they're wrapped).

Of course, a normal human being would have just fixed BackupExec so it 
prints properly. It used to, but then one day it stopped, and I couldn't 
work out why. A normal person would fix that; I went with the 
over-engineered solution. (Ask Warp above over-engineering...)

>> Need a cup of coffee? Maybe I could... uh... implement some kind of Tcl 
>> script to... er... tell you when it's coffee time or something?
> 
>  LOL, yeah, I need some coffee right now... :)

I hate coffee. It's so bitter...

>       I really don't see your problem, you have the knowledge and skill no 
> doubt about that. Just keep trying, and apply for *loads* of jobs! And not 
> just the big companies, try smaller companies too. You'll get there!  :)

"My problem" can be summarised thus:

- I don't do C. My skills with C++ are weak at best.
- I have no programming experience of any kind.
- I have no experience or qualifications with any other kind of 
high-tech field I might want to target. (E.g., logic design, computer 
graphics, mathematical forecasting, data mining...)
- I can't find companies to apply to.

The last one is probably the killer. If you don't apply to anybody, you 
don't get hired. End of story. It seems that getting hired requires 
applying to countless tens of millions of companies before anybody takes 
notice.

The company I just applied to designs things (so, they want people with 
experience with VHDL or Verilog, people who know how to operate 
osciliscopes and test meters, people familiar with power optimisation 
techniques, etc.) They write device drivers for their stuff (so, they 
want C programmers familiar with kernel-level programming for Linux, 
Windows, and real-time OSes). They also do a lot of graphics work (so 
they want experienced graphics experts).

I am none of these things. I feel I could *learn* every one of them, 
given the opportunity. (Well, except kernel-level development. That's 
just crazy talk!) But I won't be getting that opportunity, because "we 
feel that other candidates have a skillset that better matches our 
requirements". (IOW, they found somebody who already knows this stuff, 
so why hire somebody who might be able to learn it?)

I manage to find a high-tech company doing stuff that actually interests 
me (yes, apparently they really do exist), and they're still actually 
recruiting (despite the global recession). But no, I don't get hired. *sigh*

(I still wonder how graduates being hired for a graduate position would 
have more experience than me... It's not like there are courses in 
writing Linux device drivers!)

It seems to get anywhere, I need to be churning out hundreds of 
applications per week. But actually I manage to apply to maybe one job 
every 3 months.

>     Hey, just thought, have you tried BT? They pay good money and there 
> might be something for you with them.

Hahaha... Yeah, if you can endure the institutional blame-shifting attitude.

The entire BT ecosystem seems to revolve around who's the best at 
dumping all the problems onto somebody else as quickly as possible, 
without doing any actual work. Nobody *cares* which department is 
_supposed_ to be responsible, it's all about how quickly you can make 
any problem into somebody else's problem, not yours.

Great atmosphere to work in, really.

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Is this any good?

 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/45506

   ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:
> Is this any good?
> 
>  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/45506

Yep. And I applied, FWIW.

Never heard anything back though...

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49747d9f$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> Is this any good?
>>
>>  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/45506
>
> Yep. And I applied, FWIW.
>
> Never heard anything back though...

 Chase it up. Point them to your paper that you wrote.

   ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>> Yep. And I applied, FWIW.
>>
>> Never heard anything back though...
> 
>  Chase it up. Point them to your paper that you wrote.

And which paper might that be?

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49747fec@news.povray.org...
>>> Yep. And I applied, FWIW.
>>>
>>> Never heard anything back though...
>>
>>  Chase it up. Point them to your paper that you wrote.
>
> And which paper might that be?

 LOL, the longest one. ;)

 I can't remember what it was about, (apart from something to do with 
Haskell of course), but you've written more than one?

  Those papers could be good ammo for you in respect of finding a position.

      ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

> I don't know... I actually found a company that's recruiting rather than 
> firing. And not just one vacancy, but about 30 or so of them. And *all* of 
> them targetting graduates with no experience.

Our company website still say we have a load of graduate vacancies, but I 
know that now we are on the trendy "hiring freeze" the same as many 
companies and nobody has been arsed to update the website.

I suspect many companies are in the same situation.

Post a reply to this message

> Well, I emailed them and got back the same line; "other candidates have a 
> skillset that is a better match".
>
> At this point I can't decide whether they're just inundated with 
> high-grade candidates, they're scaling back their recruiting, or they 
> rejected me on some superficial criterion such as distance or 
> availability. (They claim it's not the latter.)
>
> I might try one last time, but I doubt my begging will get me far...

No harm I guess in asking which particular skills they thought you were 
lacking, say something about wanting to get into this line of work and their 
feedback would be useful for you to personally develop your skillset.

Post a reply to this message

> That's kind of odd.  Their answer was much more specific than most 
> companies give.  Mostly they're vague in their answers, such as, "You're 
> not right for the company," or, "We don't believe we can fully use your 
> talents," or some such rot.

Here (in the EU at least) I think there is some law that says you need to 
give an acceptable explanation upon request as to why you didn't employ a 
candidate.  It's so you can't get away with stuff like "becuase he's too 
old" and stuff.  Although I must admit it doesn't take a genius to make up 
an "acceptable" reply if that really is the reason.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:

> Here (in the EU at least) I think there is some law that says you need 
> to give an acceptable explanation upon request as to why you didn't 
> employ a candidate.  It's so you can't get away with stuff like "becuase 
> he's too old" and stuff.  Although I must admit it doesn't take a genius 
> to make up an "acceptable" reply if that really is the reason.

Presumably if they come up with another reason, it could be falsifiable? ;-)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:

> Our company website still say we have a load of graduate vacancies, but 
> I know that now we are on the trendy "hiring freeze" the same as many 
> companies and nobody has been arsed to update the website.
> 
> I suspect many companies are in the same situation.

Oh, that's... cute. o_O

Yeah, apparently now is not a good time for getting hired. Damn shame 
really; I think somebody should hire me!

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> I'm debating contacting some of the stars of the Haskell community and
> seeing if they can help me out in some way. But I think I know what the
> answer will be. (Surely I cannot possibly be the first person to have
> this idea!)

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't.

Even if you aren't, a professional recommendation can go a *long* way for 
you, so go for it!

Possible outcomes:
They say "no."
They give you a generic letter of recommendation (good).
They give you a personal letter of recommendation (great!).
They say, "Hey, we've got a job open here that you're PERFECT for!" 
(usually only happens in the movies, but worth a shot anyway).

The worst that could happen is that you're where you are now, so you 
literally have nothing to lose.
On the other hand, a letter of recommendation (even if it's generic) can 
go a long way towards getting a job, so go for it!

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

On 18-Jan-09 15:43, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Yes. Because of course, I've *never* tried doing that, have I? :-P
>>
>>       But you don't do anything *consistantly*! You're flittering from 
>> here to there like a blue-assed fly and not giving anything a chance.
> 
> I spent 6 months doing drawing classes. Not that it helped any.

It seems that ceramics is a good way to meet women and talk to them. If 
you fancy ladies end forties up to 70. I am not into it for the ladies 
of course, I already have one in that age group.

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: St. [mailto:dot### [at] dotcom]
>  Wasn't it the other way around? "When Harry met Sally"?

Correct.  It's one of my favorites :)

(Although Kimberly doesn't like it very much for some reason...)

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> The company I just applied to designs things (so, they want people
with
> experience with VHDL or Verilog, people who know how to operate
> osciliscopes and test meters, people familiar with power optimisation
> techniques, etc.) They write device drivers for their stuff (so, they
> want C programmers familiar with kernel-level programming for Linux,
> Windows, and real-time OSes). They also do a lot of graphics work (so
> they want experienced graphics experts).
> 
> I am none of these things. I feel I could *learn* every one of them,
> given the opportunity. (Well, except kernel-level development. That's
> just crazy talk!) But I won't be getting that opportunity, because "we
> feel that other candidates have a skillset that better matches our
> requirements". (IOW, they found somebody who already knows this stuff,
> so why hire somebody who might be able to learn it?)

I hate to break it to you, but you might have to take an unpaid
internship to get the experience you need to be hired somewhere else.
Only problem is fitting it in your schedule when you already have a job.

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:28:46 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> There's a difference between "going out with someone who likes the same
>> things as me" and "going out with someone who never does anything other
>> than what I do".
> 
> Agreed. But having *something* in common would seem sensible. ;-)

Sure, and my wife and I do have many things in common.

But that doesn't mean, for example, if she wanted to go out to dinner 
with a friend, I have to control that.  There's no need.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>>> I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server.
>> 
>> Yeah, right...
> 
> We did a test, remember? I was the only person to score less than 120.

I don't remember; I probably wasn't here.

You've probably heard "MENSA isn't for smart people, it's for people who are
good at IQ tests".

>>> I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do either C or C++, the
>>> languages used for 98% of all computer programming. I've been coding for
>>> decades, but I have not one single finished program to show for all my
>>> efforts.
>> 
>> I have been coding since I'm 10 years old (ok that's actually less time
>> than you) and I've yet to finish anyth
> 
> LOL!
> 
> Well I've been coding since I was 9, so there. :-P

If you had been coding since 15, it would be still more time than me :)

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