"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496f0010$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> Welcome to the real world. ;)
>
> I think "welcome to the desert of the real" would be a more appropriate 
> quotation from that film.
>
>>   Don't let it get you down, and keep trying. Actually, it probably isn't 
>> anything you've done, a *lot* of companies out there are making snap 
>> decisions about how they operate and how they're going to budget just to 
>> keep going in the present financial climate. They may well be going down 
>> the pan since you spotted them a couple of months ago.
>
> I don't know... I actually found a company that's recruiting rather than 
> firing. And not just one vacancy, but about 30 or so of them. And *all* of 
> them targetting graduates with no experience. And in a high-tech company 
> that seems to be doing interesting technical work. And I spent weeks 
> trying to build a killer CV, and fussing over the best way to put myself 
> across... and they decided in a mere 240 seconds that they weren't going 
> to hire me.

   Yes, recruiting 30 or so *two months* ago. It's a different story 
*today*.


>
> I don't think any human being even looked at my CV. I think they did an 
> automated search of the electronic details I submitted and their computer 
> failed to find the magic keyword it was looking for, so they sent me an 
> autogenerated rejection email.
>
> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) of 
> learning.

   Phone them. Ask for an interview, and if they say no, at least you gave 
it your best shot.


>
> On the other hand, maybe I should just face facts and accept that it is 
> essentially pointless for me to continue to remain alive. Maybe I should 
> just go throw myself off a tall building and get it over with. Then I 
> wouldn't have to put up with this suck-ass job that I hate, surrounded by 
> people who don't want me around, being paid peanuts, living in a world 
> that is completely indifferent to my pain and misery. Seriously, what do I 
> have to live for? Is my world ever going to be better than this? 30 years' 
> prior experience suggests "no"...

    Jeez Andrew, you need to stop thinking like that. Seriously.

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> 
>> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
>> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
>> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) 
>> of learning.
> 
> Do it!
> You have nothing to lose.

Except my sanity?

Post a reply to this message

>> I don't know... I actually found a company that's recruiting rather than 
>> firing. And not just one vacancy, but about 30 or so of them. And *all* of 
>> them targetting graduates with no experience. And in a high-tech company 
>> that seems to be doing interesting technical work. And I spent weeks 
>> trying to build a killer CV, and fussing over the best way to put myself 
>> across... and they decided in a mere 240 seconds that they weren't going 
>> to hire me.
> 
>    Yes, recruiting 30 or so *two months* ago. It's a different story 
> *today*.

There website still lists a huge heap of vacancies. I think some of them 
are even new ones that weren't there before. [I can't be sure, there's 
too many of them.]

>    Phone them. Ask for an interview, and if they say no, at least you gave 
> it your best shot.

As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is 
real, and not just some automaton.)

>> On the other hand, maybe I should just face facts and accept that it is 
>> essentially pointless for me to continue to remain alive. Maybe I should 
>> just go throw myself off a tall building and get it over with. Then I 
>> wouldn't have to put up with this suck-ass job that I hate, surrounded by 
>> people who don't want me around, being paid peanuts, living in a world 
>> that is completely indifferent to my pain and misery. Seriously, what do I 
>> have to live for? Is my world ever going to be better than this? 30 years' 
>> prior experience suggests "no"...
> 
>     Jeez Andrew, you need to stop thinking like that. Seriously.

Yeah, well, when decade after decade elapses, and despite your efforts 
you experience nothing but failure after failure after failure, it's 
extremely hard to stay positive, much less motivated.

Seriously, I keep acting like I'm some highly intelligent dude who 
*deserves* to be in a technical job. But what evidence is that actually 
based on? I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server. I 
nearly failed my degree. I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do 
either C or C++, the languages used for 98% of all computer programming. 
I've been coding for decades, but I have not one single finished program 
to show for all my efforts. I'm supposedly an excellent writer, but I 
can't write reports. Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!

My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No 
matter what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy, 
just constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for 
me to look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive 
if you can't have happiness?

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12:30 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>> Do it!
>> You have nothing to lose.
>
>Except my sanity?

Fair point but you must keep on trying. Don't take it personally (I know that is
hard).

Although your sister might be right about them wanting recent graduates as they
will be cheaper and it is a cruel world. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:25:54 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>Seriously, I keep acting like I'm some highly intelligent dude who 
>*deserves* to be in a technical job. But what evidence is that actually 
>based on? I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server. I 
>nearly failed my degree. 

I wouldn't call a 2:1 nearly failing and you got your degree which is more than
I ever did.

>I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do 
>either C or C++, the languages used for 98% of all computer programming. 
>I've been coding for decades, but I have not one single finished program 
>to show for all my efforts. I'm supposedly an excellent writer, but I 
>can't write reports. 

It is hard to finish projects when you don't have the motivation, we all know
that.  Who said that you were an excellent writer and why can't you write
reports? That is something that comes with practice and tutelage.

>Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!

If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?

>My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No 
>matter what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy, 
>just constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for 
>me to look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive 
>if you can't have happiness?

Jam tomorrow!
Keep plugging away, if you think that your life is hard then think of people
living in shanty towns, the third world or Gaza.
Don't despair things can get better only if you don't give up.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:

> I wouldn't call a 2:1 nearly failing and you got your degree which is more than
> I ever did.

Every term my grades got lower and lower. It was just a matter of time 
before I started failing modules right, left and center. Fortunately the 
course finished shortly before I arrived at that stage.

Looking at the transcript, most of my grades were very low, except for a 
few A+ and A* grades for subjects that had some actual technical 
content. I guess that should be encouraging... except that these days 
employers seem to care about project management skills far more than 
technical ability. (And social skills rank higher yet.)

> It is hard to finish projects when you don't have the motivation, we all know
> that.

Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you 
don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".

> Who said that you were an excellent writer and why can't you write
> reports? That is something that comes with practice and tutelage.

People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. But then, some of 
these same people seem to delight in repeatedly pointing out the 
(self-evident) fact that I can't spell. And the number of reports at uni 
that were down-marked for being "poorly written" is staggering.

>> Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!
> 
> If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?

I'm really not sure sometimes. Maybe because I'm amusing or something?

> Don't despair things can get better only if you don't give up.

I don't know if you'll understand this, but... when failure is all 
you've ever experienced in life, it can be really, *really* hard to 
believe that success is actually possible. Everything I have ever 
experienced tells me that failure is inevitable. It's hard-wired into my 
very notion of what the real world "is". It's very hard to see past 
that. (No matter how logically "obvious" it may be.)

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496f0f33$1@news.povray.org...

>>    Yes, recruiting 30 or so *two months* ago. It's a different story 
>> *today*.
>
> There website still lists a huge heap of vacancies. I think some of them 
> are even new ones that weren't there before. [I can't be sure, there's too 
> many of them.]
>
>>    Phone them. Ask for an interview, and if they say no, at least you 
>> gave it your best shot.
>
> As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
> guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is real, 
> and not just some automaton.)

    Have you done any research on them? If they are as big as they sound, 
then there is a phone number there, find it.


>>     Jeez Andrew, you need to stop thinking like that. Seriously.
>
> Yeah, well, when decade after decade elapses, and despite your efforts you 
> experience nothing but failure after failure after failure, it's extremely 
> hard to stay positive, much less motivated.
>
> Seriously, I keep acting like I'm some highly intelligent dude who 
> *deserves* to be in a technical job. But what evidence is that actually 
> based on? I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server. I 
> nearly failed my degree. I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do 
> either C or C++, the languages used for 98% of all computer programming. 
> I've been coding for decades, but I have not one single finished program 
> to show for all my efforts. I'm supposedly an excellent writer, but I 
> can't write reports. Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!

     Don't be stupid. You're not a 'nobody'. You have everything going for 
you, you're young, clever, and trust me, there's a good job waiting for you 
out there somewhere.


>
> My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No matter 
> what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy, just 
> constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for me to 
> look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive if you 
> can't have happiness?

     You think your life has been a waste, you should try mine buddy. I'd 
swap with you any day of the week. Seriously, over the last 7 or 8 years, my 
life has been turned upside down, and so much so that I now live alone and 
have to fend for myself. I've *never* been alone - never. It's hard, it's 
boring, I find myself talking to myself just so I can practice speaking. 
Yeah, seriously. I don't eat well, I have stress-induced psoriasis at the 
moment which covers me from my shoulders up. I look like a lizard in the 
mornings. In 2002, I had stress related alopecia - this was brought on after 
I saved my wife's life. I had about 5 or 6 large bald patches and they 
didn't quite meet, so imagine a bunch of fields with hedges dividing them, 
the hedges being the hair that I still had, that's what I looked like. I had 
to deal with people looking like that. Don't ask me how or why because I'm 
not gonna say, but I've saved my wife's life twice now, and it's *the* most 
scariest thing *ever*.

   Yeah, so you go on about your crap, shitty life mate, I'm all ears.

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:09:27 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>Every term my grades got lower and lower. It was just a matter of time 
>before I started failing modules right, left and center. Fortunately the 
>course finished shortly before I arrived at that stage.
>

But you passed and got a 2:1 which is good so I don't believe you. What you said
is probably true insofar as could have got a first.

>Looking at the transcript, most of my grades were very low, except for a 
>few A+ and A* grades for subjects that had some actual technical 
>content. I guess that should be encouraging... except that these days 
>employers seem to care about project management skills far more than 
>technical ability. (And social skills rank higher yet.)
>
*Some* employers seem to care about project management skills far more than
technical ability but not all.

>> It is hard to finish projects when you don't have the motivation, we all know
>> that.
>
>Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you 
>don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".
>

True, so stop reading comics online and spending hours playing games. Finish
something.

>> Who said that you were an excellent writer and why can't you write
>> reports? That is something that comes with practice and tutelage.
>
>People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
>go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. 

I've not read any of your technical writing only your posts here and I can't
comment about that.

>But then, some of 
>these same people seem to delight in repeatedly pointing out the 
>(self-evident) fact that I can't spell. And the number of reports at uni 
>that were down-marked for being "poorly written" is staggering.
>

People don't *delight* in pointing out that you can't spell, they are doing it
to help. I can't spell for toffee (I used to get the belt at school every week
for my spelling) so I almost always use a spell checker, for everything even
this. Appearances are important.

>>> Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!
>> 
>> If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?
>
>I'm really not sure sometimes. Maybe because I'm amusing or something?

Yes you are amusing but in a good way. You are liked here and would be liked
elsewhere if you got the chance to start afresh.
>
>> Don't despair things can get better only if you don't give up.
>
>I don't know if you'll understand this, but... when failure is all 
>you've ever experienced in life, it can be really, *really* hard to 
>believe that success is actually possible. Everything I have ever 
>experienced tells me that failure is inevitable. It's hard-wired into my 
>very notion of what the real world "is". It's very hard to see past 
>that. (No matter how logically "obvious" it may be.)

If I had a cure for depression I would be rich. Unfortunately I haven't. My
makeup is different so I can only sympathise and try to give advice and
encouragement.
Look, I've met you in the flesh and you are normal from the outside. Try to put
on a front and it will become second nature (I think and hope).
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>> Every term my grades got lower and lower. It was just a matter of time 
>> before I started failing modules right, left and center. Fortunately the 
>> course finished shortly before I arrived at that stage.
> 
> But you passed and got a 2:1 which is good so I don't believe you. What you said
> is probably true insofar as could have got a first.

Question: How rare is it to get a first?

I was under the impression that that's extremely rare, but that's only 
based on hear-say.

> *Some* employers seem to care about project management skills far more than
> technical ability but not all.

Heh. I wish I could find an employer somewhere who actually cared about 
my technical skills. In fact, I thought I *had*... but apparently not. :-(

>> Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you 
>> don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".
> 
> True, so stop reading comics online and spending hours playing games. Finish
> something.

I've tried to do that a couple of times. But... no finished product 
here, eh? :-/

>> People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
>> go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. 
> 
> I've not read any of your technical writing only your posts here and I can't
> comment about that.

Well, Darren and Andrel seem to think I have excellent skills in this 
direction... but as I say, nobody at uni was impressed.

> People don't *delight* in pointing out that you can't spell, they are doing it
> to help. I can't spell for toffee (I used to get the belt at school every week
> for my spelling) so I almost always use a spell checker, for everything even
> this. Appearances are important.

It just seems that every time I post some long and wordy post about 
something, Warp replies with a 1-line reply saying "you spelt that 
wrong". When I've just spent ages writing something, a meta-comment 
about something that is both obvious and irrelevant isn't what I'm 
really seeking.

>>>> Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!
>>> If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?
>> I'm really not sure sometimes. Maybe because I'm amusing or something?
> 
> Yes you are amusing but in a good way. You are liked here and would be liked
> elsewhere if you got the chance to start afresh.

Well, if I ever get the chance to do that, maybe we'll see...

> If I had a cure for depression I would be rich. Unfortunately I haven't. My
> makeup is different so I can only sympathise and try to give advice and
> encouragement.
> Look, I've met you in the flesh and you are normal from the outside. Try to put
> on a front and it will become second nature (I think and hope).

I'm just really frustrated and upset right now. Hopefully I'll get over 
it later.

My point is that knowing, rationally, that something is true doesn't 
necessarily help you *believe* it. Ever tried rock climbing? Sure, I 
*know* that nothing bad can possibly happen to me... but I'm still 
pretty terrified, all the same! o_O

Post a reply to this message

>> As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
>> guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is real, 
>> and not just some automaton.)
> 
>     Have you done any research on them? If they are as big as they sound, 
> then there is a phone number there, find it.

There's a phone number for the sales department, and one for finance, 
and one for marketing, but the one for HR specifically says on it "not 
for job enquiries".

>      Don't be stupid. You're not a 'nobody'. You have everything going for 
> you, you're young, clever, and trust me, there's a good job waiting for you 
> out there somewhere.

*sigh*

Yeah. There are friends too. And probably a girl. They're all out there 
waiting for me, somewhere. I just wish I had any idea how in hell to 
*find* all these things... :-(

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:02:28 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>Question: How rare is it to get a first?

First-class honours: about 11%
Upper second-class honours: about 45%
Lower second-class honours: about 30%
Third-class honours: about 7.2%
Ordinary degree: around 10% transfer to the Ordinary degree

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification


>> True, so stop reading comics online and spending hours playing games. Finish
>> something.
>
>I've tried to do that a couple of times. But... no finished product 
>here, eh? :-/
>

Yet?

>>> People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
>>> go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. 
>> 
>> I've not read any of your technical writing only your posts here and I can't
>> comment about that.
>
>Well, Darren and Andrel seem to think I have excellent skills in this 
>direction... but as I say, nobody at uni was impressed.
>

I'll take their word over computing "accademics"

>> People don't *delight* in pointing out that you can't spell, they are doing it
>> to help. I can't spell for toffee (I used to get the belt at school every week
>> for my spelling) so I almost always use a spell checker, for everything even
>> this. Appearances are important.
>
>It just seems that every time I post some long and wordy post about 
>something, Warp replies with a 1-line reply saying "you spelt that 
>wrong". When I've just spent ages writing something, a meta-comment 
>about something that is both obvious and irrelevant isn't what I'm 
>really seeking.
>

I don't supose you do. So don't give him the opportunity ;)


>I'm just really frustrated and upset right now. Hopefully I'll get over 
>it later.
>

Understandable, I'm sure that you will.

>My point is that knowing, rationally, that something is true doesn't 
>necessarily help you *believe* it. 

Again, true.

>Ever tried rock climbing? 

No, I get vertego but I have worked "at height". I've frozen a couple of times,
not nice.

>Sure, I 
>*know* that nothing bad can possibly happen to me... but I'm still 
>pretty terrified, all the same! o_O

Being brave is feeling scared and still carrying on. (Or is that stupid?) :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>> Question: How rare is it to get a first?
> 
> First-class honours: about 11%
> Upper second-class honours: about 45%
> Lower second-class honours: about 30%
> Third-class honours: about 7.2%
> Ordinary degree: around 10% transfer to the Ordinary degree
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

Hmm, one in ten isn't all that rare I guess. (I was told that something 
like 6 people in the whole of the UK get one each year. Clearly this is 
not correct. Wikipedia is always right.)

Also... apparently 2:1 is *the* most common ranking.

>> I'm just really frustrated and upset right now. Hopefully I'll get over 
>> it later.
> 
> Understandable, I'm sure that you will.

Heh, we'll see. I hope so...

>> My point is that knowing, rationally, that something is true doesn't 
>> necessarily help you *believe* it. 
> 
> Again, true.

And that's the problem, right there.

> Being brave is feeling scared and still carrying on. (Or is that stupid?) :)

I guess it depends on whether, rationally, it's a sensible thing to be 
doing? :-)

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> And *all* of them targetting graduates with no experience. 

I saw a job advertised as needing people capable of designing and 
implementing robust, scalable systems capable of high-throughput transaction 
processing. Nobody with more than 2 years experience should apply.  WTF?

> I don't think any human being even looked at my CV. I think they did an 
> automated search of the electronic details I submitted and their 
> computer failed to find the magic keyword it was looking for, so they 
> sent me an autogenerated rejection email.

I now have a section at the bottom of my resume that lists all the keywords. 
Basically, a blob of buzzwords in a section marked "resume search criteria". 
I started that when I got rejected for a job that needed knowledge of ISO 
protocols and I had listed that I knew the full OSI suite.  (Kind of like 
getting rejected because you don't know TCP/IP, you only know Internet 
protocols.)

> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) 
> of learning.

I would phone them up and ask whether perhaps they've misconfigured their 
software to automatically send out rejection notices, and maybe that's why 
they're not getting any decent candidates. ;-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Well, Darren and Andrel seem to think I have excellent skills in this 
> direction... but as I say, nobody at uni was impressed.

I wouldn't worry about that. You have better skills than 90% of the people 
I've ever dealt with (including the fabulously-more-intelligent-than-me 
folks). Especially since you can also understand the technical stuff, too.

> It just seems that every time I post some long and wordy post about 
> something, Warp replies with a 1-line reply saying "you spelt that 
> wrong". When I've just spent ages writing something, a meta-comment 
> about something that is both obvious and irrelevant isn't what I'm 
> really seeking.

Look at it this way: Warp read the whole post, cared enough to reply, and 
the worst criticism he could make was "you spelled this wrong". ;-)

> I'm just really frustrated and upset right now. Hopefully I'll get over 
> it later.

I suggest finding their phone number and calling them up. You may have to 
actually call directory assistance to find it. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> I would phone them up and ask whether perhaps they've misconfigured 
> their software to automatically send out rejection notices, and maybe 
> that's why they're not getting any decent candidates. ;-)

Well, it's either that or I get the entire POV-Ray community to start a 
hate-mail campaign aainst them until they hire me...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 15-Jan-09 13:53, Stephen wrote:

> I'll take their word over computing "accademics"


See Andy: another one that can not spell.


Sorry,couldn't resist ;)

Post a reply to this message

On 15-Jan-09 10:21, Invisible wrote:

> On the other hand, maybe I should just face facts and accept that it is 
> essentially pointless for me to continue to remain alive. 

Then ask yourself this question: how pointless is it to remain dead?

> Maybe I should 
> just go throw myself off a tall building and get it over with. 

If you even consider suicide do it in style, virtual, on the internet. I 
think you should listen to Eric Bogle's The Enigma song. Shall I put it 
somewhere for you or mail it somewhere (3.4MB)? I know it is not 
strictly legal, but how are you able to let other people listen to 
something new?

> Then I 
> wouldn't have to put up with this suck-ass job that I hate, surrounded 
> by people who don't want me around, being paid peanuts, living in a 
> world that is completely indifferent to my pain and misery. Seriously, 
> what do I have to live for? Is my world ever going to be better than 
> this? 30 years' prior experience suggests "no"...

Strange thing is that you can not judge yourself. You'll have to ask 
others.

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them
> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite
> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated)
> of learning.

Do it.  The worst that can happen is they stand by their decision.  
You've got nothing to lose by asking, and plenty to gain.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them
> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite
> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated)
> of learning.

Oh, and I should say - good for you FINALLY thinking something positive 
about yourself.  This type of attitude is a good thing to have!

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:03:30 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> There's a phone number for the sales department, and one for finance,
> and one for marketing, but the one for HR specifically says on it "not
> for job enquiries".

It doesn't say "don't call and ask for the number for job enquiries".  So 
call and ask who you would talk to for the job enquiry.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:02:28 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>> I've not read any of your technical writing only your posts here and I
>> can't comment about that.
> 
> Well, Darren and Andrel seem to think I have excellent skills in this
> direction... but as I say, nobody at uni was impressed.

That was then.  This is now.  You've improved since then.

If I marketed myself based on my skills when I got my degree, I'd be 
nowhere.  

Why?  

I didn't finish my degree.  I dropped out after 2 or 3 years (I can't 
even remember how many years I finished, how dumb is THAT?)

So when you look at your life and say "I never finish anything", know 
that that is complete bullshit, Andy.  You got your degree, and that 
shows a willingness to stick through something that takes years to do.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:10:47 +0100, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>On 15-Jan-09 13:53, Stephen wrote:
>
>> I'll take their word over computing "accademics"
>
>
>See Andy: another one that can not spell.
>
>
>Sorry,couldn't resist ;)

I could have sworn that I ran that through a spell checker. So I'm not perfect
then ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:35:00 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>I now have a section at the bottom of my resume that lists all the keywords. 
>Basically, a blob of buzzwords in a section marked "resume search criteria". 

Yeah! But then you get emails from agencies that don't understand the difference
between "integration with" and "competent in". :(
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> Yeah! But then you get emails from agencies that don't understand the difference
> between "integration with" and "competent in". :(

Hell, apparently due to my PhD, I get job offers from hospitals, thinking 
I'm a medical doctor or something. :-)  We apparently need many more MDs 
than computer scientists around here right now.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> I saw a job advertised as needing people capable of designing and 
> implementing robust, scalable systems capable of high-throughput 
> transaction processing. Nobody with more than 2 years experience should 
> apply.  WTF?

Translation:  "We want someone who can do what we need with a high level of 
confidence but don't want to really pay anything for it so we're looking for 
people who aren't expecting real money."

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

Post a reply to this message

Tim Cook wrote:
> Translation:  "We want someone who can do what we need with a high level 
> of confidence but don't want to really pay anything for it so we're 
> looking for people who aren't expecting real money."

Well, yes. I guess it wasn't that much of a WTF after all. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

Tim Cook wrote:

> Translation:  "We want someone who can do what we need with a high level 
> of confidence but don't want to really pay anything for it so we're 
> looking for people who aren't expecting real money."

Hmm, that sounds like my current job, actually...

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:

> If you even consider suicide do it in style, virtual, on the internet.

...WTF? o_O

You mean, something like this:

http://www.bash.org/?488793

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:17 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> Yeah! But then you get emails from agencies that don't understand the difference
>> between "integration with" and "competent in". :(
>
>Hell, apparently due to my PhD, I get job offers from hospitals, thinking 
>I'm a medical doctor or something. :-)  We apparently need many more MDs 
>than computer scientists around here right now.

That is scary.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) 
> of learning.

Well, just so ya know, I called them. [Eventually. It has taken me 
literally the *entire day* to work up the courage to do it.]

They won't speak to me by phone. Apparently the application goes to the 
department who's trying to do the hire, and it's down to individual 
departments to decide who they do or don't hire.

I'll reply to their email and see if that gets me any further. (I think 
by now too much time has elapsed, but it's worth a go...)

Post a reply to this message

>> I though I'd actually be quite
>> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated)
>> of learning.
> 
> Oh, and I should say - good for you FINALLY thinking something positive 
> about yourself.  This type of attitude is a good thing to have!

Well, given that they don't seem to agree, and they know better than 
me... hmm....

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> They won't speak to me by phone. Apparently the application goes to the 
> department who's trying to do the hire, and it's down to individual 
> departments to decide who they do or don't hire.

Well, that sucks. On the plus side consider this: Do you really want to 
work for a company that appears to treat people like a commodity?

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

On 16-Jan-09 10:10, Invisible wrote:
> andrel wrote:
> 
>> If you even consider suicide do it in style, virtual, on the internet.
> 
> ...WTF? o_O
> 
> You mean, something like this:
> 
> http://www.bash.org/?488793
no

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> http://www.bash.org/?488793

Wow. That's really screwed up..

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
> 
>> http://www.bash.org/?488793
> 
> Wow. That's really screwed up..

Yep. I think the final line says it all.

In a similar style:

http://www.bash.org/?239870

There are apparently some very, very sick people on the Internet...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> There are apparently some very, very sick people on the Internet...

Obviously.

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> Well, that sucks. On the plus side consider this: Do you really want to 
> work for a company that appears to treat people like a commodity?

Agreed. I wrote to a group at Microsoft, because I thought what they were 
researching was really cool.  A big long cover letter explaining how cool I 
thought they were and everything.  Three minutes later, I get back 
"applications go thru HR. And we don't hire for particular projects, just 
general departments."

As my brother pointed out, "good thing you found out the boss is a dick 
*before* you got the job."

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:44:14 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>> I though I'd actually be quite
>>> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated)
>>> of learning.
>> 
>> Oh, and I should say - good for you FINALLY thinking something positive
>> about yourself.  This type of attitude is a good thing to have!
> 
> Well, given that they don't seem to agree, and they know better than
> me... hmm....

No, continue with the positive attitude, not this negative attitude.  You 
are capable and motivated to learn.  That's important.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:30:08 -0600, Mike Raiford wrote:

> Invisible wrote:
> 
>> They won't speak to me by phone. Apparently the application goes to the
>> department who's trying to do the hire, and it's down to individual
>> departments to decide who they do or don't hire.
> 
> Well, that sucks. On the plus side consider this: Do you really want to
> work for a company that appears to treat people like a commodity?

Yeah, this is true.  Having worked for companies that treat people like 
that, I can attest that it really sucks to find that out afterwards.

Andy, the lesson to learn here is that interviews and job applications 
are a two-way-street.  You are interviewing them just as much as they are 
interviewing you.  If they act like total dicks during the interview, the 
chances are that that won't change once they hire you.

I probably told you about the interview I gave a storage device 
manufacturer.  I'd written a book on the technology they were interested 
in hiring me for and am recognised as an expert in the field, but they 
didn't give me a second interview because I wasn't certified in the OS.  
It didn't matter that I was one of (at the time) about 20 people in the 
world supporting the product online for the vendor, and that being one of 
those people is invitation-only.

If I had been hired, any time I disagreed with the people who got the 
certification, I was guaranteed to be wrong.  Not because I didn't know 
the technology (I knew it better than any of them did, and they knew that 
from talking to me about it - and admitted that during the interview), 
but I'd be wrong because I didn't have the damned piece of paper.

I'm so glad I didn't end up working for them.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> 
> There are apparently some very, very sick people on the Internet...

Hands up everyone who's surprised because of this!



No? I didn't think so.. :P

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> "Thank you for applying to Imagination Technologies. I regret to inform 
> you we will not be pursuing your application further as we feel that 
> there are other candidates whose technical skillset & experience in 
> relation to  computer graphics  is more suited to our requirements."

That's kind of odd.  Their answer was much more specific than most 
companies give.  Mostly they're vague in their answers, such as, "You're 
not right for the company," or, "We don't believe we can fully use your 
talents," or some such rot.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

"John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message 
news:49717604$1@news.povray.org...
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> "Thank you for applying to Imagination Technologies. I regret to inform 
>> you we will not be pursuing your application further as we feel that 
>> there are other candidates whose technical skillset & experience in 
>> relation to  computer graphics  is more suited to our requirements."
>
> That's kind of odd.  Their answer was much more specific than most 
> companies give.  Mostly they're vague in their answers, such as, "You're 
> not right for the company," or, "We don't believe we can fully use your 
> talents," or some such rot.

  They realised Andrew was trying hard and he actually received a personal 
email back so that they 'could' be more specific, (you know, in a way that 
might help him with other job applications).

   That's what I think anyway.

    ~Steve~


>
> Regards,
> John

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> I'll reply to their email and see if that gets me any further. (I think 
> by now too much time has elapsed, but it's worth a go...)

Well, I emailed them and got back the same line; "other candidates have 
a skillset that is a better match".

At this point I can't decide whether they're just inundated with 
high-grade candidates, they're scaling back their recruiting, or they 
rejected me on some superficial criterion such as distance or 
availability. (They claim it's not the latter.)

I might try one last time, but I doubt my begging will get me far...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:15:28 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>
>As my brother pointed out, "good thing you found out the boss is a dick 
>*before* you got the job."

Priceless!
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I
> guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is
> real, and not just some automaton.)

DON'T reply to their email... CALL THEM!

Even if you just get a hold of the wrong department... start chatting it
up with those guys!  Be friendly with them and, if they like you, you've
got an immediate advantage over anyone else who's applying!  (Many
companies, including my own, offer cash incentives if an employee
recommends a friend who ends up getting hired, so there's good reason
for them to recommend good people).

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> Yeah. There are friends too. And probably a girl. They're all out
there
> waiting for me, somewhere. I just wish I had any idea how in hell to
> *find* all these things... :-(

Don't you go to meetings with your Counterstrike clan?

They count as friends.  I *wish* I had a regular group of people to play
online with... my entire Xbox friends list is 3 people, and I don't
think I've played online against a single one of them...


...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

The plural of anecdote is not data  --Elbows

Post a reply to this message

Chambers wrote:

> DON'T reply to their email... CALL THEM!

I did. They weren't prepaired to tell me anything.

And *then* I replied to their email. And still got no useful data.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> and they know better than me...

No, they don't.  That's why they need to hire you.  If they had all the 
expertise they needed, they wouldn't have any open positions.

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

A render isn't slow unless it won't finish until after your next birthday.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> "Thank you for applying to Imagination Technologies. I regret to inform 
> you we will not be pursuing your application further as we feel that 
> there are other candidates whose technical skillset & experience in 
> relation to  computer graphics  is more suited to our requirements."

We call that a Wilkinson letter. The first sentence lifts you up, the second 
sentence cuts you off close.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/chi/942873935.html

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

"Chambers" <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote in message 
news:DEE67DD77A384F379BC9F6B6FF2441B2@HomePC...
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
>> Yeah. There are friends too. And probably a girl. They're all out
> there
>> waiting for me, somewhere. I just wish I had any idea how in hell to
>> *find* all these things... :-(
>
> Don't you go to meetings with your Counterstrike clan?
>
> They count as friends.


     They sure should do.


I *wish* I had a regular group of people to play
> online with...

 You should try Crysis Wars on PC. It comes with the SP game Warhead for 
free. When you get into Wars, it's amazing. I usually play a sniper on a 
particular server that I like. Doing ok at the moment. :)

my entire Xbox friends list is 3 people, and I don't
> think I've played online against a single one of them...

   Oh, I never got on with consoles... ;)

    There is talk of having console players playing online with PC players 
with certain games.

    Should be interesting if it ever happens. ;)

    ~Steve~


>
>
> ...Ben Chambers
> www.pacificwebguy.com
>
> The plural of anecdote is not data  --Elbows
>
>
>

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