OK, so I've been putting it off all this time until the new year. Well, 
that's here now, so it's time to finally send this speculative 
application I've been promising myself. I found a great looking company 
to send it to, I've found out what kind of people they're after, I know 
where they're based and how to get there, I've polished up my CV, now I 
just need to tell them to hire me.

Now then, w- um... er... WTF was the company called?




OMG, I DIDN'T BOOKMARK IT?! O_O

Ooohhhhmygod... you IDIOT!!! >_<

OK, right now I can't believe my supreme powers of stupidity... I found 
a company with my name practically written on it, and I didn't write it 
down anywhere. FOOL!

Damnit... OK, let's check the browser hist- wait, that only goes back up 
to 6 days. I found these guys in November. Ooops!

OK then. Looks like I've let a golden opportunity wander past just 
because I was too STUPID to note it down anywhere... *sigh*

I wonder if Google knows?



...OK, Google is not my friend. It's my friggin' fiancée! Jesus, I 
thought I'd never find this company again. Fortunately, it seems they're 
the only company in that part of the country specialising in that 
particular field. Go figure!

Right, now... oh yeah, now I have to actually *send* the letter. Damn, 
now I remember why I've been holding off all this time. Writing letters 
sucks! :-/

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Right, now... oh yeah, now I have to actually *send* the letter. Damn,
> now I remember why I've been holding off all this time. Writing letters
> sucks! :-/

	If you can get a copy from a library, read "Getting Things Done". It's
actually poorly written (had to read it twice to properly understand
it), but a number of people swear by it. I must say quite a few things
in the book appealed to me.

-- 
Boy making shadow pictures with his hand: "Look, Daddy, Digital Imaging."


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Right, now... oh yeah, now I have to actually *send* the letter. Damn, 
> now I remember why I've been holding off all this time. Writing letters 
> sucks! :-/

Well, I got my CV finalised, and wrote *a* letter, but... man, it's 
taken me all afternoon! And it's *still* not that great... Jesus I suck 
at this! :-(

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> Damnit... OK, let's check the browser hist- wait, that only goes back up
> to 6 days. I found these guys in November. Ooops!
> 

Mine goes up 99 days. It's configurable, you know?

Also, if you're running some kind of proxy (Squid, Privoxy, etc), it
might have a log.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> Well, I got my CV finalised, and wrote *a* letter, but... man, it's
> taken me all afternoon! And it's *still* not that great... Jesus I suck
> at this! :-(
> 

Even though, send it. 80% good application is always better than unsent one.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496a1d1e$1@news.povray.org...
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> Right, now... oh yeah, now I have to actually *send* the letter. Damn, 
>> now I remember why I've been holding off all this time. Writing letters 
>> sucks! :-/
>
> Well, I got my CV finalised, and wrote *a* letter, but... man, it's taken 
> me all afternoon! And it's *still* not that great... Jesus I suck at this! 
> :-(

    Hav u cheked for speeling mustakes? Its verry importunt.

     ~Steve~


>
> -- 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:

>     Hav u cheked for speeling mustakes? Its verry importunt.

Fortunately OpenOffice has a *working* spell checker.

OTOH, no machine is ever going to spot mistakes such as "had" instead of 
"head". :-/

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:09:25 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>St. wrote:
>
>>     Hav u cheked for speeling mustakes? Its verry importunt.
>
>Fortunately OpenOffice has a *working* spell checker.
>
>OTOH, no machine is ever going to spot mistakes such as "had" instead of 
>"head". :-/

That's why it is a good idea to get someone else to proofread important
documents. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> wrote in message 
news:ms2mm4tor8jbp3o616k9qeppee6cqtkasj@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:09:25 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>
>>St. wrote:
>>
>>>     Hav u cheked for speeling mustakes? Its verry importunt.
>>
>>Fortunately OpenOffice has a *working* spell checker.
>>
>>OTOH, no machine is ever going to spot mistakes such as "had" instead of
>>"head". :-/
>
> That's why it is a good idea to get someone else to proofread important
> documents.

  Absolutely. When our company produces a catalogue, they 'proofread' the 
initial master copies, but there is always something wrong when it goes to 
production, lol.

     ~Steve~


> -- 
>
> Regards
>     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496b08c6$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
>>     Hav u cheked for speeling mustakes? Its verry importunt.
>
> Fortunately OpenOffice has a *working* spell checker.
>
> OTOH, no machine is ever going to spot mistakes such as "had" instead of 
> "head". :-/

    Well, that's down to you to check. Just read it thoroughly about 5 times 
or more.

      ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>> OTOH, no machine is ever going to spot mistakes such as "had" instead of 
>> "head". :-/
> 
>     Well, that's down to you to check. Just read it thoroughly about 5 times 
> or more.

Unfortunately, once you've read something once, the second time you're 
not really "reading" it, you're just *remembering* what it says. (Or 
what you ment it to say.) Gotta get a seperate party to read it if you 
want real results.

Post a reply to this message

At least WordPerfect had this additional feature called Grammatik that'd 
check the grammar of your document in addition to spelling, and that would 
pick up errors like that (and whether you're using passive or active voice, 
et cetera).

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

Post a reply to this message

Tim Cook wrote:
> At least WordPerfect had this additional feature called Grammatik that'd 
> check the grammar of your document in addition to spelling, and that 
> would pick up errors like that (and whether you're using passive or 
> active voice, et cetera).

Word has a "grammer check" feature that tells you almost every sentence 
is structured wrong and suggests that you rephrase it to sound like 
Master Yoda. (E.g., change "this is going to be a problem" to "a problem 
to be this is".) I never use that feature. ;-)

In short, nothing I've seen reliably replaces a human proof-reader.

Post a reply to this message

Eero Ahonen wrote:

> Even though, send it. 80% good application is always better than unsent one.

And an 80% good application sent means that you can't send a 98% good 
one later. :-/

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Well, I got my CV finalised, and wrote *a* letter, but... man, it's 
> taken me all afternoon! And it's *still* not that great... Jesus I suck 
> at this! :-(

I am really not enjoying my day at work today. Once again I find myself 
wanting to just pack it in right now.

On the other hand, I don't have another job to go to. And much as I'd 
like to end up working for this other company [one of the few people who 
seem to be trying to recruit large numbers of trainee staff], I'm scared 
and apprehensive about actually contacting them. But if I don't, I'll be 
trapped here for the rest of my life.

Rock and a hard place, eh? :-(

Post a reply to this message

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Invisible [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
> Rock and a hard place, eh? :-(

No, rock and a great opportunity for you :-)

Of course, I'm not one to talk, being in a similar situation.  I've
known about another job for about 3 months, but I haven't put together
my resume or contacted them or anything yet.  It'd be a longer commute,
but they pay quite a bit better, and I'm 90% certain I'd enjoy the job
more.  So, why haven't I done anything yet...

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

>> Rock and a hard place, eh? :-(
> 
> No, rock and a great opportunity for you :-)
> 
> Of course, I'm not one to talk, being in a similar situation.  I've
> known about another job for about 3 months, but I haven't put together
> my resume or contacted them or anything yet.  It'd be a longer commute,
> but they pay quite a bit better, and I'm 90% certain I'd enjoy the job
> more.  So, why haven't I done anything yet...

Yeah *you*, why haven't you done anything??

[pokes you]

The thing is, the guys I'm looking at seemingly have a stack of graduate 
opportunities, all slightly different. I can't see one specific job in 
their list where I tick *all* of the boxes. But given that I'm the sort 
of nutcase who is likely to open up Wikipedia and learn about active 
power factor correction JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT (!), it would seem that 
I would be emminently suited to these kinds of jobs - even if I don't 
know all the necessary theory right this second. I have the power to 
learn it, and that surely is what counts.

Now, how the **** do I tell them that? (Especially given that they seem 
to want you to apply using an online application process where you 
specify a specific job you're applying for, and there doesn't seem to be 
a way to contact a human about this.) I think if I could just persuade 
them to interview me and talk to me, they could probably find something 
useful to employ me for. But how?

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> OTOH, no machine is ever going to spot mistakes such as "had" instead of 
> "head". :-/

That would be the point of the grammar checker. Not quite as robust as the 
spelling checker, mind.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

Post a reply to this message

On 12-Jan-09 11:18, Invisible wrote:
> Tim Cook wrote:
>> At least WordPerfect had this additional feature called Grammatik 
>> that'd check the grammar of your document in addition to spelling, and 
>> that would pick up errors like that (and whether you're using passive 
>> or active voice, et cetera).
> 
> Word has a "grammer check" feature that tells you almost every sentence 
> is structured wrong and suggests that you rephrase it to sound like 
> Master Yoda. (E.g., change "this is going to be a problem" to "a problem 
> to be this is".) I never use that feature. ;-)
> 
> In short, nothing I've seen reliably replaces a human proof-reader.
Today I was writing a somewhat formal piece. On some words my open 
office complained that I should perhaps rephrase because it was 'written 
language', hmm, yes, what exactly do you think am I doing? Other words 
that I regularly use are apparently 'Belgian Dutch'. What I normally do 
is leave the check on and see if I agree, sometimes it is right and 
sometimes it is plain silly,

Post a reply to this message

On 12-Jan-09 17:14, Invisible wrote:
>>> Rock and a hard place, eh? :-(
>>
>> No, rock and a great opportunity for you :-)
>>
>> Of course, I'm not one to talk, being in a similar situation.  I've
>> known about another job for about 3 months, but I haven't put together
>> my resume or contacted them or anything yet.  It'd be a longer commute,
>> but they pay quite a bit better, and I'm 90% certain I'd enjoy the job
>> more.  So, why haven't I done anything yet...
> 
> Yeah *you*, why haven't you done anything??
> 
> [pokes you]
> 
> The thing is, the guys I'm looking at seemingly have a stack of graduate 
> opportunities, all slightly different. I can't see one specific job in 
> their list where I tick *all* of the boxes. But given that I'm the sort 
> of nutcase who is likely to open up Wikipedia and learn about active 
> power factor correction JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT (!), 

Well you are also the kind of guy that is *in* wikipedia, not many 
people that will apply for a job there can say that. Actually... perhaps 
better if you don't mention it. Or, the internet being what it is, shall 
we promote you to a full article including some remarks that may even 
help you in getting a job? We do have stuff enough I would say ;)

> it would seem that 
> I would be emminently suited to these kinds of jobs - even if I don't 
> know all the necessary theory right this second. I have the power to 
> learn it, and that surely is what counts.
> 
> Now, how the **** do I tell them that? (Especially given that they seem 
> to want you to apply using an online application process where you 
> specify a specific job you're applying for, and there doesn't seem to be 
> a way to contact a human about this.) I think if I could just persuade 
> them to interview me and talk to me, they could probably find something 
> useful to employ me for. But how?

You apply for just one of the jobs, preferable one that might suit you, 
and during the interview they will find out which one actually does fit. 
  If there is a lot of jobs open they will in every interview consider 
all jobs.

Post a reply to this message

>> The thing is, the guys I'm looking at seemingly have a stack of 
>> graduate opportunities, all slightly different. I can't see one 
>> specific job in their list where I tick *all* of the boxes. But given 
>> that I'm the sort of nutcase who is likely to open up Wikipedia and 
>> learn about active power factor correction JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT (!), 
> 
> Well you are also the kind of guy that is *in* wikipedia, not many 
> people that will apply for a job there can say that.

Mmm, really?

> Actually... perhaps better if you don't mention it.

Well, I don't know. The whole "I'm so damned bored with swapping tapes 
over that I spend all day surfing the net" kinda points out that my 
skills are currently vastly under-utilised. OTOH, suggested that I get 
bored easily and am inclined to do stuff I'm not supposed to be doing is 
probably not a good idea... On balance, I'm unsure which side wins.

> Or, the internet being what it is, shall 
> we promote you to a full article including some remarks that may even 
> help you in getting a job? We do have stuff enough I would say ;)

LOL! Yes, people of POV-Ray, get me hired!!eleven!

(Let's face it, the chances of you getting me laid are way smaller...)

>> Now, how the **** do I tell them that? (Especially given that they 
>> seem to want you to apply using an online application process where 
>> you specify a specific job you're applying for, and there doesn't seem 
>> to be a way to contact a human about this.) I think if I could just 
>> persuade them to interview me and talk to me, they could probably find 
>> something useful to employ me for. But how?
> 
> You apply for just one of the jobs, preferable one that might suit you, 
> and during the interview they will find out which one actually does fit. 
>  If there is a lot of jobs open they will in every interview consider 
> all jobs.

Is that how the game works? Hmm...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 12-Jan-09 21:32, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> The thing is, the guys I'm looking at seemingly have a stack of 
>>> graduate opportunities, all slightly different. I can't see one 
>>> specific job in their list where I tick *all* of the boxes. But given 
>>> that I'm the sort of nutcase who is likely to open up Wikipedia and 
>>> learn about active power factor correction JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT (!), 
>>
>> Well you are also the kind of guy that is *in* wikipedia, not many 
>> people that will apply for a job there can say that.
> 
> Mmm, really?

yip

>> Actually... perhaps better if you don't mention it.
> 
> Well, I don't know. The whole "I'm so damned bored with swapping tapes 
> over that I spend all day surfing the net" kinda points out that my 
> skills are currently vastly under-utilised. OTOH, suggested that I get 
> bored easily and am inclined to do stuff I'm not supposed to be doing is 
> probably not a good idea... On balance, I'm unsure which side wins.

Luckily it does not tell that.

>> Or, the internet being what it is, shall we promote you to a full 
>> article including some remarks that may even help you in getting a 
>> job? We do have stuff enough I would say ;)
> 
> LOL! Yes, people of POV-Ray, get me hired!!eleven!
> 
> (Let's face it, the chances of you getting me laid are way smaller...)

I don't think I'll take on that bet. We do have this problem of you 
having only a BSc while with your capacities and sort of job you are 
looking for it should have been an MSc (at least here in academia). If 
you ever find another job, look good at the options for study they 
offer. (And if I find one for you, you may be assured that we will have 
a heavy training program included. It is not as if you have anything to 
do at night anyway)

>>> Now, how the **** do I tell them that? (Especially given that they 
>>> seem to want you to apply using an online application process where 
>>> you specify a specific job you're applying for, and there doesn't 
>>> seem to be a way to contact a human about this.) I think if I could 
>>> just persuade them to interview me and talk to me, they could 
>>> probably find something useful to employ me for. But how?
>>
>> You apply for just one of the jobs, preferable one that might suit 
>> you, and during the interview they will find out which one actually 
>> does fit.  If there is a lot of jobs open they will in every interview 
>> consider all jobs.
> 
> Is that how the game works? Hmm...

yes.

Post a reply to this message

>> LOL! Yes, people of POV-Ray, get me hired!!eleven!
>>
>> (Let's face it, the chances of you getting me laid are way smaller...)
> 
> I don't think I'll take on that bet. We do have this problem of you 
> having only a BSc while with your capacities and sort of job you are 
> looking for it should have been an MSc (at least here in academia). If 
> you ever find another job, look good at the options for study they 
> offer. (And if I find one for you, you may be assured that we will have 
> a heavy training program included. It is not as if you have anything to 
> do at night anyway)

The position(s) I'm looking at specifically say "BSc 2:1 or higher", 
which is exactly what I have. They're specifically graduate-level 
positions. (If anything, my sister thinks that because I haven't 
*recently* graduated, they might not be interested.)

>>> You apply for just one of the jobs, preferable one that might suit 
>>> you, and during the interview they will find out which one actually 
>>> does fit.  If there is a lot of jobs open they will in every 
>>> interview consider all jobs.
>>
>> Is that how the game works? Hmm...
> 
> yes.

Heh. Well I guess I'd better get on with it then! :-S

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 12-Jan-09 22:03, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> LOL! Yes, people of POV-Ray, get me hired!!eleven!
>>>
>>> (Let's face it, the chances of you getting me laid are way smaller...)
>>
>> I don't think I'll take on that bet. We do have this problem of you 
>> having only a BSc while with your capacities and sort of job you are 
>> looking for it should have been an MSc (at least here in academia). If 
>> you ever find another job, look good at the options for study they 
>> offer. (And if I find one for you, you may be assured that we will 
>> have a heavy training program included. It is not as if you have 
>> anything to do at night anyway)
> 
> The position(s) I'm looking at specifically say "BSc 2:1 or higher", 
> which is exactly what I have. They're specifically graduate-level 
> positions. (If anything, my sister thinks that because I haven't 
> *recently* graduated, they might not be interested.)

Or they might find out that you are actually slightly better than that* 
because you have experience and the right stare of mind (in contrast to 
dull business informatics guys). I think you're sister wants you to be 
stuck in that miserable job forever, don't listen to her. ;)

*) remember, I assumed you had at least an MSc from what I knew you had 
been doing in your free time.

Post a reply to this message

>> The position(s) I'm looking at specifically say "BSc 2:1 or higher", 
>> which is exactly what I have. They're specifically graduate-level 
>> positions. (If anything, my sister thinks that because I haven't 
>> *recently* graduated, they might not be interested.)
> 
> Or they might find out that you are actually slightly better than that* 
> because you have experience and the right stare of mind (in contrast to 
> dull business informatics guys).

Only if I can get through the door.

So far in my jobsearch, I have only been to one single interview. And 
the interviewer appeared to be attempting to invent a reason to hire me 
during the interview. o_O That being the case, if I can persuade them to 
talk to me, I figure I've got a shot...

> I think you're sister wants you to be 
> stuck in that miserable job forever, don't listen to her. ;)

Nah. I think she's just warning me that "graduate recruitment schemes" 
might be closed to me at this point. But we'll see.

> *) remember, I assumed you had at least an MSc from what I knew you had 
> been doing in your free time.

My sister really *does* have an MSc in Chemistry. She's now studying to 
be an accountant. (WTF?)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 12-Jan-09 22:20, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> My sister really *does* have an MSc in Chemistry. She's now studying to 
> be an accountant. (WTF?)

I think she found out the the stuff that can dissolve anything does not 
exist, at least not in chemistry. This time she may get lucky.

<careful> Slightly aside: if she is studying, why aren't you? </careful>

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:

> <careful> Slightly aside: if she is studying, why aren't you? </careful>

Because I enjoy being able to go to sleep if I'm tired? (My sister 
apparently doesn't sleep any more. Not enough time for sleeping.)

Besides, I only narrowly avoided failing my BSc, and an MSc is even 
harder. I'd stand no chance!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496ba8e8$1@news.povray.org...

> Is that how the game works? Hmm...

  Erm, YES. If you're useful in any regard, they will most definately study 
you with much thought. Bloody hell man, SELL yourself! Jeez, just go for it. 
Call them by phone, and tell them that you have more to say than you can on 
the online form! Seriously. Life has many paths, explore the ones that fit 
you best.

   I think generally, we've been saying this for the last 3 or 4 years now, 
and you've never taken anything on board - or so it seems.

    Good luck with your new job, tell *us* all about it first!  ;)

      ~Steve~


>
> -- 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> The thing is, the guys I'm looking at seemingly have a stack of graduate
> opportunities, all slightly different. I can't see one specific job in
> their list where I tick *all* of the boxes. But given that I'm the sort
> of nutcase who is likely to open up Wikipedia and learn about active
> power factor correction JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT (!), it would seem that
> I would be emminently suited to these kinds of jobs - even if I don't
> know all the necessary theory right this second. I have the power to
> learn it, and that surely is what counts.
>
> Now, how the **** do I tell them that? (Especially given that they seem
> to want you to apply using an online application process where you
> specify a specific job you're applying for, and there doesn't seem to be
> a way to contact a human about this.) I think if I could just persuade
> them to interview me and talk to me, they could probably find something
> useful to employ me for. But how?

Cover letter.

If you can convey this kind of enthusiasm through that, it's a big step toward
being noticed.  Look online for examples.  Find a way to relate your enthusiasm
for learning and problem solving to their needs as a company.  I just sent a
cover letter and resume to a company with one posting for an electrical
engineer (not me!).  Since it didn't apply, I circumvented the website system
and send it directly to HR, thinking it would surely disappear into the void.
Instead, I'll get my chance to talk with them tomorrow morning.  The point is
that no matter what, the worst they can do is to ignore you, and the best they
can do is to hire you (OK, not strictly true, but let's be reasonable here).

 - Ricky

Post a reply to this message

>> Is that how the game works? Hmm...
> 
>   Erm, YES. If you're useful in any regard, they will most definately study 
> you with much thought. Bloody hell man, SELL yourself! Jeez, just go for it. 

I'm just concerned that I apply for the "wrong" thing, they look, see I 
don't have what's wanted for that job, and summarily delete my 
application without realising that I'd be useful for some other job they 
have. That's all.

> Call them by phone, and tell them that you have more to say than you can on 
> the online form! Seriously. Life has many paths, explore the ones that fit 
> you best.

They deliberately don't provide a telephone number. You can call their 
sales department, or their finance department, but you're not allowed to 
call HR. You must use the online form. (Presumably because they get too 
many time-wasters...)

>    I think generally, we've been saying this for the last 3 or 4 years now, 
> and you've never taken anything on board - or so it seems.

Really? Perhaps the two weeks I spent improving my CV was just a 
dream... :-P

>     Good luck with your new job, tell *us* all about it first!  ;)

Like there was ever any debate about that part. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

>> Now, how the **** do I tell them that? (Especially given that they seem
>> to want you to apply using an online application process where you
>> specify a specific job you're applying for, and there doesn't seem to be
>> a way to contact a human about this.) I think if I could just persuade
>> them to interview me and talk to me, they could probably find something
>> useful to employ me for. But how?
> 
> Cover letter.
> 
> If you can convey this kind of enthusiasm through that, it's a big step toward
> being noticed.  Look online for examples.  Find a way to relate your enthusiasm
> for learning and problem solving to their needs as a company.  I just sent a
> cover letter and resume to a company with one posting for an electrical
> engineer (not me!).  Since it didn't apply, I circumvented the website system
> and send it directly to HR, thinking it would surely disappear into the void.
> Instead, I'll get my chance to talk with them tomorrow morning.  The point is
> that no matter what, the worst they can do is to ignore you, and the best they
> can do is to hire you (OK, not strictly true, but let's be reasonable here).

Yeah, this was my general plan. [Since I'm so rubbish at making phone 
calls.] However, they seem to want you to go through their online process.

I guess I could just write a covering letter and send it to their postal 
address with "HR" written at the top of the address and hope it somehow 
ends up in the right place... Not sure if ignoring their online 
application process would get my letter summarily lossed in the bin 
though...

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>I'm just concerned that I apply for the "wrong" thing, they look, see I 
>don't have what's wanted for that job, and summarily delete my 
>application without realising that I'd be useful for some other job they 
>have. That's all.

You have a point but OTOH if they are having a recruiting drive they might
actually read your application. Years ago I got an interview with a company that
was having a recruiting drive for a job as an Instrument Tech. The day of the
interview I saw that they were advertising for Electronic Techs. So when I
arrived at the interview I just asked if I could be considered for the job I
wanted.
But things were different in bygone times, I know.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:23:54 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>I guess I could just write a covering letter and send it to their postal 
>address with "HR" written at the top of the address and hope it somehow 
>ends up in the right place... Not sure if ignoring their online 
>application process would get my letter summarily lossed in the bin 
>though...

Do both, apply online and send a follow up letter a couple of days later. Get
yourself noticed.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>> Is that how the game works? Hmm...
>> 
>>   Erm, YES. If you're useful in any regard, they will most definately
>>   study
>> you with much thought. Bloody hell man, SELL yourself! Jeez, just go
>> for it.
> 
> I'm just concerned that I apply for the "wrong" thing, they look, see I
> don't have what's wanted for that job, and summarily delete my
> application without realising that I'd be useful for some other job they
> have. That's all.

And if they do, when the next job comes up, submit a new application for 
it.  Don't be afraid of applying for the "wrong" job - the only "wrong" 
course of action is to not try.

>> Call them by phone, and tell them that you have more to say than you
>> can on the online form! Seriously. Life has many paths, explore the
>> ones that fit you best.
> 
> They deliberately don't provide a telephone number. You can call their
> sales department, or their finance department, but you're not allowed to
> call HR. You must use the online form. (Presumably because they get too
> many time-wasters...)

Call the sales department, finance department, support department, 
whatever number you have and ASK for a number for someone in HR.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> OK, so I've been putting it off all this time until the new year. Well, 
> that's here now, so it's time to finally send this speculative 
> application I've been promising myself. I found a great looking company 
> to send it to, I've found out what kind of people they're after, I know 
> where they're based and how to get there, I've polished up my CV, now I 
> just need to tell them to hire me.

Just so you know... I submitted an online application last night. We'll 
see if this has any effect though. :-/

Post a reply to this message

"Thank you for applying to Imagination Technologies. I regret to inform 
you we will not be pursuing your application further as we feel that 
there are other candidates whose technical skillset & experience in 
relation to  computer graphics  is more suited to our requirements."

Damn. After all that work... At 4 minutes past 9 this morning, they 
summarily tell me they aren't interested. Well, there goes a whole 2 
months of planning and scheming.

Damn again. :-(

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Welcome to the real world. ;)

  Don't let it get you down, and keep trying. Actually, it probably isn't 
anything you've done, a *lot* of companies out there are making snap 
decisions about how they operate and how they're going to budget just to 
keep going in the present financial climate. They may well be going down the 
pan since you spotted them a couple of months ago.

    ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:44:51 +0000, St. wrote:

> Welcome to the real world. ;)
> 
>   Don't let it get you down, and keep trying. Actually, it probably
>   isn't
> anything you've done, a *lot* of companies out there are making snap
> decisions about how they operate and how they're going to budget just to
> keep going in the present financial climate. They may well be going down
> the pan since you spotted them a couple of months ago.
> 
>     ~Steve~

Yes, Andy, consider it practice for the next time.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:
> Welcome to the real world. ;)

I think "welcome to the desert of the real" would be a more appropriate 
quotation from that film.

>   Don't let it get you down, and keep trying. Actually, it probably isn't 
> anything you've done, a *lot* of companies out there are making snap 
> decisions about how they operate and how they're going to budget just to 
> keep going in the present financial climate. They may well be going down the 
> pan since you spotted them a couple of months ago.

I don't know... I actually found a company that's recruiting rather than 
firing. And not just one vacancy, but about 30 or so of them. And *all* 
of them targetting graduates with no experience. And in a high-tech 
company that seems to be doing interesting technical work. And I spent 
weeks trying to build a killer CV, and fussing over the best way to put 
myself across... and they decided in a mere 240 seconds that they 
weren't going to hire me.

I don't think any human being even looked at my CV. I think they did an 
automated search of the electronic details I submitted and their 
computer failed to find the magic keyword it was looking for, so they 
sent me an autogenerated rejection email.

I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) 
of learning.

On the other hand, maybe I should just face facts and accept that it is 
essentially pointless for me to continue to remain alive. Maybe I should 
just go throw myself off a tall building and get it over with. Then I 
wouldn't have to put up with this suck-ass job that I hate, surrounded 
by people who don't want me around, being paid peanuts, living in a 
world that is completely indifferent to my pain and misery. Seriously, 
what do I have to live for? Is my world ever going to be better than 
this? 30 years' prior experience suggests "no"...

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
>to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
>useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) 
>of learning.

Do it!
You have nothing to lose.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496f0010$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> Welcome to the real world. ;)
>
> I think "welcome to the desert of the real" would be a more appropriate 
> quotation from that film.
>
>>   Don't let it get you down, and keep trying. Actually, it probably isn't 
>> anything you've done, a *lot* of companies out there are making snap 
>> decisions about how they operate and how they're going to budget just to 
>> keep going in the present financial climate. They may well be going down 
>> the pan since you spotted them a couple of months ago.
>
> I don't know... I actually found a company that's recruiting rather than 
> firing. And not just one vacancy, but about 30 or so of them. And *all* of 
> them targetting graduates with no experience. And in a high-tech company 
> that seems to be doing interesting technical work. And I spent weeks 
> trying to build a killer CV, and fussing over the best way to put myself 
> across... and they decided in a mere 240 seconds that they weren't going 
> to hire me.

   Yes, recruiting 30 or so *two months* ago. It's a different story 
*today*.


>
> I don't think any human being even looked at my CV. I think they did an 
> automated search of the electronic details I submitted and their computer 
> failed to find the magic keyword it was looking for, so they sent me an 
> autogenerated rejection email.
>
> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) of 
> learning.

   Phone them. Ask for an interview, and if they say no, at least you gave 
it your best shot.


>
> On the other hand, maybe I should just face facts and accept that it is 
> essentially pointless for me to continue to remain alive. Maybe I should 
> just go throw myself off a tall building and get it over with. Then I 
> wouldn't have to put up with this suck-ass job that I hate, surrounded by 
> people who don't want me around, being paid peanuts, living in a world 
> that is completely indifferent to my pain and misery. Seriously, what do I 
> have to live for? Is my world ever going to be better than this? 30 years' 
> prior experience suggests "no"...

    Jeez Andrew, you need to stop thinking like that. Seriously.

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:21:20 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> 
>> I'm seriously considering either replying to their email or phoning them 
>> to enquire why they're not interested. I though I'd actually be quite 
>> useful to them, given what I know and what I'm capable (and motivated) 
>> of learning.
> 
> Do it!
> You have nothing to lose.

Except my sanity?

Post a reply to this message

>> I don't know... I actually found a company that's recruiting rather than 
>> firing. And not just one vacancy, but about 30 or so of them. And *all* of 
>> them targetting graduates with no experience. And in a high-tech company 
>> that seems to be doing interesting technical work. And I spent weeks 
>> trying to build a killer CV, and fussing over the best way to put myself 
>> across... and they decided in a mere 240 seconds that they weren't going 
>> to hire me.
> 
>    Yes, recruiting 30 or so *two months* ago. It's a different story 
> *today*.

There website still lists a huge heap of vacancies. I think some of them 
are even new ones that weren't there before. [I can't be sure, there's 
too many of them.]

>    Phone them. Ask for an interview, and if they say no, at least you gave 
> it your best shot.

As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is 
real, and not just some automaton.)

>> On the other hand, maybe I should just face facts and accept that it is 
>> essentially pointless for me to continue to remain alive. Maybe I should 
>> just go throw myself off a tall building and get it over with. Then I 
>> wouldn't have to put up with this suck-ass job that I hate, surrounded by 
>> people who don't want me around, being paid peanuts, living in a world 
>> that is completely indifferent to my pain and misery. Seriously, what do I 
>> have to live for? Is my world ever going to be better than this? 30 years' 
>> prior experience suggests "no"...
> 
>     Jeez Andrew, you need to stop thinking like that. Seriously.

Yeah, well, when decade after decade elapses, and despite your efforts 
you experience nothing but failure after failure after failure, it's 
extremely hard to stay positive, much less motivated.

Seriously, I keep acting like I'm some highly intelligent dude who 
*deserves* to be in a technical job. But what evidence is that actually 
based on? I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server. I 
nearly failed my degree. I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do 
either C or C++, the languages used for 98% of all computer programming. 
I've been coding for decades, but I have not one single finished program 
to show for all my efforts. I'm supposedly an excellent writer, but I 
can't write reports. Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!

My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No 
matter what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy, 
just constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for 
me to look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive 
if you can't have happiness?

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12:30 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>> Do it!
>> You have nothing to lose.
>
>Except my sanity?

Fair point but you must keep on trying. Don't take it personally (I know that is
hard).

Although your sister might be right about them wanting recent graduates as they
will be cheaper and it is a cruel world. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:25:54 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>Seriously, I keep acting like I'm some highly intelligent dude who 
>*deserves* to be in a technical job. But what evidence is that actually 
>based on? I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server. I 
>nearly failed my degree. 

I wouldn't call a 2:1 nearly failing and you got your degree which is more than
I ever did.

>I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do 
>either C or C++, the languages used for 98% of all computer programming. 
>I've been coding for decades, but I have not one single finished program 
>to show for all my efforts. I'm supposedly an excellent writer, but I 
>can't write reports. 

It is hard to finish projects when you don't have the motivation, we all know
that.  Who said that you were an excellent writer and why can't you write
reports? That is something that comes with practice and tutelage.

>Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!

If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?

>My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No 
>matter what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy, 
>just constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for 
>me to look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive 
>if you can't have happiness?

Jam tomorrow!
Keep plugging away, if you think that your life is hard then think of people
living in shanty towns, the third world or Gaza.
Don't despair things can get better only if you don't give up.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:

> I wouldn't call a 2:1 nearly failing and you got your degree which is more than
> I ever did.

Every term my grades got lower and lower. It was just a matter of time 
before I started failing modules right, left and center. Fortunately the 
course finished shortly before I arrived at that stage.

Looking at the transcript, most of my grades were very low, except for a 
few A+ and A* grades for subjects that had some actual technical 
content. I guess that should be encouraging... except that these days 
employers seem to care about project management skills far more than 
technical ability. (And social skills rank higher yet.)

> It is hard to finish projects when you don't have the motivation, we all know
> that.

Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you 
don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".

> Who said that you were an excellent writer and why can't you write
> reports? That is something that comes with practice and tutelage.

People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. But then, some of 
these same people seem to delight in repeatedly pointing out the 
(self-evident) fact that I can't spell. And the number of reports at uni 
that were down-marked for being "poorly written" is staggering.

>> Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!
> 
> If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?

I'm really not sure sometimes. Maybe because I'm amusing or something?

> Don't despair things can get better only if you don't give up.

I don't know if you'll understand this, but... when failure is all 
you've ever experienced in life, it can be really, *really* hard to 
believe that success is actually possible. Everything I have ever 
experienced tells me that failure is inevitable. It's hard-wired into my 
very notion of what the real world "is". It's very hard to see past 
that. (No matter how logically "obvious" it may be.)

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:496f0f33$1@news.povray.org...

>>    Yes, recruiting 30 or so *two months* ago. It's a different story 
>> *today*.
>
> There website still lists a huge heap of vacancies. I think some of them 
> are even new ones that weren't there before. [I can't be sure, there's too 
> many of them.]
>
>>    Phone them. Ask for an interview, and if they say no, at least you 
>> gave it your best shot.
>
> As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
> guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is real, 
> and not just some automaton.)

    Have you done any research on them? If they are as big as they sound, 
then there is a phone number there, find it.


>>     Jeez Andrew, you need to stop thinking like that. Seriously.
>
> Yeah, well, when decade after decade elapses, and despite your efforts you 
> experience nothing but failure after failure after failure, it's extremely 
> hard to stay positive, much less motivated.
>
> Seriously, I keep acting like I'm some highly intelligent dude who 
> *deserves* to be in a technical job. But what evidence is that actually 
> based on? I have the lowest IQ on the whole of the POV-Ray server. I 
> nearly failed my degree. I'm supposedly an ace programmer but I can't do 
> either C or C++, the languages used for 98% of all computer programming. 
> I've been coding for decades, but I have not one single finished program 
> to show for all my efforts. I'm supposedly an excellent writer, but I 
> can't write reports. Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!

     Don't be stupid. You're not a 'nobody'. You have everything going for 
you, you're young, clever, and trust me, there's a good job waiting for you 
out there somewhere.


>
> My entire life thus far has been a near-complete waste of time. No matter 
> what I do, I never succeed at anything. I'm hardly ever happy, just 
> constantly depressed. What do I have to live for? What is there for me to 
> look forward to? Why should I even go on?? Why bother being alive if you 
> can't have happiness?

     You think your life has been a waste, you should try mine buddy. I'd 
swap with you any day of the week. Seriously, over the last 7 or 8 years, my 
life has been turned upside down, and so much so that I now live alone and 
have to fend for myself. I've *never* been alone - never. It's hard, it's 
boring, I find myself talking to myself just so I can practice speaking. 
Yeah, seriously. I don't eat well, I have stress-induced psoriasis at the 
moment which covers me from my shoulders up. I look like a lizard in the 
mornings. In 2002, I had stress related alopecia - this was brought on after 
I saved my wife's life. I had about 5 or 6 large bald patches and they 
didn't quite meet, so imagine a bunch of fields with hedges dividing them, 
the hedges being the hair that I still had, that's what I looked like. I had 
to deal with people looking like that. Don't ask me how or why because I'm 
not gonna say, but I've saved my wife's life twice now, and it's *the* most 
scariest thing *ever*.

   Yeah, so you go on about your crap, shitty life mate, I'm all ears.

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:09:27 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>Every term my grades got lower and lower. It was just a matter of time 
>before I started failing modules right, left and center. Fortunately the 
>course finished shortly before I arrived at that stage.
>

But you passed and got a 2:1 which is good so I don't believe you. What you said
is probably true insofar as could have got a first.

>Looking at the transcript, most of my grades were very low, except for a 
>few A+ and A* grades for subjects that had some actual technical 
>content. I guess that should be encouraging... except that these days 
>employers seem to care about project management skills far more than 
>technical ability. (And social skills rank higher yet.)
>
*Some* employers seem to care about project management skills far more than
technical ability but not all.

>> It is hard to finish projects when you don't have the motivation, we all know
>> that.
>
>Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you 
>don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".
>

True, so stop reading comics online and spending hours playing games. Finish
something.

>> Who said that you were an excellent writer and why can't you write
>> reports? That is something that comes with practice and tutelage.
>
>People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
>go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. 

I've not read any of your technical writing only your posts here and I can't
comment about that.

>But then, some of 
>these same people seem to delight in repeatedly pointing out the 
>(self-evident) fact that I can't spell. And the number of reports at uni 
>that were down-marked for being "poorly written" is staggering.
>

People don't *delight* in pointing out that you can't spell, they are doing it
to help. I can't spell for toffee (I used to get the belt at school every week
for my spelling) so I almost always use a spell checker, for everything even
this. Appearances are important.

>>> Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!
>> 
>> If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?
>
>I'm really not sure sometimes. Maybe because I'm amusing or something?

Yes you are amusing but in a good way. You are liked here and would be liked
elsewhere if you got the chance to start afresh.
>
>> Don't despair things can get better only if you don't give up.
>
>I don't know if you'll understand this, but... when failure is all 
>you've ever experienced in life, it can be really, *really* hard to 
>believe that success is actually possible. Everything I have ever 
>experienced tells me that failure is inevitable. It's hard-wired into my 
>very notion of what the real world "is". It's very hard to see past 
>that. (No matter how logically "obvious" it may be.)

If I had a cure for depression I would be rich. Unfortunately I haven't. My
makeup is different so I can only sympathise and try to give advice and
encouragement.
Look, I've met you in the flesh and you are normal from the outside. Try to put
on a front and it will become second nature (I think and hope).
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>> Every term my grades got lower and lower. It was just a matter of time 
>> before I started failing modules right, left and center. Fortunately the 
>> course finished shortly before I arrived at that stage.
> 
> But you passed and got a 2:1 which is good so I don't believe you. What you said
> is probably true insofar as could have got a first.

Question: How rare is it to get a first?

I was under the impression that that's extremely rare, but that's only 
based on hear-say.

> *Some* employers seem to care about project management skills far more than
> technical ability but not all.

Heh. I wish I could find an employer somewhere who actually cared about 
my technical skills. In fact, I thought I *had*... but apparently not. :-(

>> Yeah, well, employers want finished items. They aren't impressed if you 
>> don't finish a project because you "got bored of it".
> 
> True, so stop reading comics online and spending hours playing games. Finish
> something.

I've tried to do that a couple of times. But... no finished product 
here, eh? :-/

>> People here keep trying to tell me I'm an excellent writing and I should 
>> go into technical writing and all this kind of thing. 
> 
> I've not read any of your technical writing only your posts here and I can't
> comment about that.

Well, Darren and Andrel seem to think I have excellent skills in this 
direction... but as I say, nobody at uni was impressed.

> People don't *delight* in pointing out that you can't spell, they are doing it
> to help. I can't spell for toffee (I used to get the belt at school every week
> for my spelling) so I almost always use a spell checker, for everything even
> this. Appearances are important.

It just seems that every time I post some long and wordy post about 
something, Warp replies with a 1-line reply saying "you spelt that 
wrong". When I've just spent ages writing something, a meta-comment 
about something that is both obvious and irrelevant isn't what I'm 
really seeking.

>>>> Who the hell am I trying to kid? I'm nobody!
>>> If you are nobody then why does everyone here spend their time with you?
>> I'm really not sure sometimes. Maybe because I'm amusing or something?
> 
> Yes you are amusing but in a good way. You are liked here and would be liked
> elsewhere if you got the chance to start afresh.

Well, if I ever get the chance to do that, maybe we'll see...

> If I had a cure for depression I would be rich. Unfortunately I haven't. My
> makeup is different so I can only sympathise and try to give advice and
> encouragement.
> Look, I've met you in the flesh and you are normal from the outside. Try to put
> on a front and it will become second nature (I think and hope).

I'm just really frustrated and upset right now. Hopefully I'll get over 
it later.

My point is that knowing, rationally, that something is true doesn't 
necessarily help you *believe* it. Ever tried rock climbing? Sure, I 
*know* that nothing bad can possibly happen to me... but I'm still 
pretty terrified, all the same! o_O

Post a reply to this message

>> As I say, they don't actually give a phone number for job enquiries. I 
>> guess I could reply to their email though. (Assuming the address is real, 
>> and not just some automaton.)
> 
>     Have you done any research on them? If they are as big as they sound, 
> then there is a phone number there, find it.

There's a phone number for the sales department, and one for finance, 
and one for marketing, but the one for HR specifically says on it "not 
for job enquiries".

>      Don't be stupid. You're not a 'nobody'. You have everything going for 
> you, you're young, clever, and trust me, there's a good job waiting for you 
> out there somewhere.

*sigh*

Yeah. There are friends too. And probably a girl. They're all out there 
waiting for me, somewhere. I just wish I had any idea how in hell to 
*find* all these things... :-(

Post a reply to this message