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http://www.badscience.net/2009/01/what-if-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-aids-was-wrong/
For reasons I can't entirely put my finger on, I find this whole thing
really disturbing.
Maybe I just find it upsetting that hundreds of scientists have spent
thousands of man-years pouring research into this lethal disease to find
out what causes it, but then some random person goes "hey, actually, I
think really you're all wrong - I don't have any logic or evidence, I
just believe this, for no particular reason". And now other people
actually *believe* this nonesense. And people are dying because of it.
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Apparently the more you look for this kind of craziness, the more you
find it...
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/123/1/e164
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http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/
Hmm... worrying indeed.
I should probably stop reading now. :-/
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:55:27 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
>http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/
>
>Hmm... worrying indeed.
>
>I should probably stop reading now. :-/
Yes your boss might catch you :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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>> I should probably stop reading now. :-/
>
> Yes your boss might catch you :)
No way! He'd have to *be here* to do that! :-P
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:24:08 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> I should probably stop reading now. :-/
>>
>> Yes your boss might catch you :)
>
>No way! He'd have to *be here* to do that! :-P
LOL
--
Regards
Stephen
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And lo On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:00:00 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
spake thusly:
>
http://www.badscience.net/2009/01/what-if-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-aids-was-wrong/
>
> For reasons I can't entirely put my finger on, I find this whole thing
> really disturbing.
>
> Maybe I just find it upsetting that hundreds of scientists have spent
> thousands of man-years pouring research into this lethal disease to find
> out what causes it, but then some random person goes "hey, actually, I
> think really you're all wrong - I don't have any logic or evidence, I
> just believe this, for no particular reason". And now other people
> actually *believe* this nonesense. And people are dying because of it.
Trouble is occasionaly one of these fruitcakes turns out to be correct and
due to the highly specialised technical nature of things the general
public have little way of telling who is and isn't correct (and of course
there's that latin phrase you know so well).
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> Trouble is occasionaly one of these fruitcakes turns out to be correct
> and due to the highly specialised technical nature of things the general
> public have little way of telling who is and isn't correct (and of
> course there's that latin phrase you know so well).
The more a read about psychology, the more I realise that PEOPLE ARE STUPID!
The number of experiments I've read about where the test subjects do
things which are obviously irrational is quite astonishing.
(For example, you show people photos from a pair of digital cameras.
Most people prefer camera X, and a few prefer camera Y. Now you tell
them that camera X is 5 megapixels, but camera Y is 10 megapixels.
Suddenly everybody prefers the photos from camera Y. WTF??)
I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
survive for so long?
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>>> I should probably stop reading now. :-/
>>
>> Yes your boss might catch you :)
>
> No way! He'd have to *be here* to do that! :-P
http://www.bash.org/?258908
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Invisible a écrit :
> I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
> survive for so long?
It's probably that you don't really need to be intelligent to survive :-)
Exhibit 1: the Earthworm.
--
Vincent
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> I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
> survive for so long?
You are forgetting that there are plenty of clever people, who continuously
work out devious ways to extract all the money from the varying degrees of
stupid people.
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scott wrote:
>
> http://www.bash.org/?258908
>
Kind of.. owned :D.
-Aero
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And lo On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:15:25 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>
>> Trouble is occasionaly one of these fruitcakes turns out to be correct
>> and due to the highly specialised technical nature of things the
>> general public have little way of telling who is and isn't correct (and
>> of course there's that latin phrase you know so well).
>
> The more a read about psychology, the more I realise that PEOPLE ARE
> STUPID!
>
> The number of experiments I've read about where the test subjects do
> things which are obviously irrational is quite astonishing.
Selection bias - the only people you can test are those who volunteer to
be tested so all results gained may not apply to the majority who
wouldn't. It's the same with questionaires and television ratings the only
people measured are those who agree to be measured unless you work for TfL
of course
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3971799.ece
> (For example, you show people photos from a pair of digital cameras.
> Most people prefer camera X, and a few prefer camera Y. Now you tell
> them that camera X is 5 megapixels, but camera Y is 10 megapixels.
> Suddenly everybody prefers the photos from camera Y. WTF??)
Because the marketing crowd have told them more pixels are better and why
would they lie? On the same theme a group were asked to judge something
measurable, but the groups had been planted with people told to lie. The
actual test subjects tended to go along with the lies when they appeared
in the majority.
> I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
> survive for so long?
Dumb luck? To be honest I think it's something that's only really showing
up now. Our brains, bodies, and reactions have evolved in certain ways
that made sense 10,000 plus years ago when we lived in small tribes and
those ingrained skills are getting confused.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message news:4964bd70@news.povray.org...
>> I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
>> survive for so long?
>
> You are forgetting that there are plenty of clever people, who
> continuously work out devious ways to extract all the money from the
> varying degrees of stupid people.
pt barnum said it all .... there's a sucker born every minute.
haha .... just in case, I googled that before posting and apparently that's
in doubt.
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Invisible wrote:
> The more a read about psychology, the more I realise that PEOPLE ARE
> STUPID!
>
> The number of experiments I've read about where the test subjects do
> things which are obviously irrational is quite astonishing.
>
> (For example, you show people photos from a pair of digital cameras.
> Most people prefer camera X, and a few prefer camera Y. Now you tell
> them that camera X is 5 megapixels, but camera Y is 10 megapixels.
> Suddenly everybody prefers the photos from camera Y. WTF??)
>
> I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
> survive for so long?
You think that's bad. I saw a documentary recently on cults. They
mentioned a psychological experiment where they had one real subject and
the rest planted. The task was simple, a sheet with a bar was shown next
to a sheet with 3 bars, The subject, and planted "subjects" were asked
to say out loud which of the three were the same. The plants would give
an obvious incorrect answer, while initially the subject would give the
correct answer, they eventually started to give the same answer as the
rest of the group. WTF?
GroupThink is scary.
--
~Mike
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And lo On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:24:54 -0000, Mike Raiford
<"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> did spake thusly:
> GroupThink is scary.
Doubly scary as that was the example I was thinking of :-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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>> GroupThink is scary.
>
> Doubly scary as that was the example I was thinking of :-)
NOO! WE'RE ALL LEMMINGS!! ;_;
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Invisible wrote:
> http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/
>
> Hmm... worrying indeed.
>
> I should probably stop reading now. :-/
Yay. The London Science Museum (!!) has written a page about the "risks"
involved in MMR. It even has a link to the JABS pressure group website
for "further advice".
EPIC FAIL.
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> And lo On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:24:54 -0000, Mike Raiford
> <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> did spake thusly:
>
>> GroupThink is scary.
>
> Doubly scary as that was the example I was thinking of :-)
>
Haha, I read what you posted after I submitted my post. It sounded
eerily similar.
--
~Mike
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Maybe I just find it upsetting that hundreds of scientists have spent
> thousands of man-years pouring research into this lethal disease to find
> out what causes it, but then some random person goes "hey, actually, I
> think really you're all wrong - I don't have any logic or evidence, I
> just believe this, for no particular reason". And now other people
> actually *believe* this nonesense. And people are dying because of it.
I have not fully understood why, but conspiracy theories are extremely
enticing, especially when properly presented.
And believing conspiracy theories is not something exclusive to certain
types of people (ie. stupid ones), but also very intelligent, educated,
logically thinking people can get entrapped into believing some wacky
conspiracy theory. I have seen this first-hand. (Fortunately I have been
able to mostly talk them out of it.)
Maybe this is something related to human psychology.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> I have not fully understood why, but conspiracy theories are extremely
> enticing, especially when properly presented.
> Maybe this is something related to human psychology.
It surely *must* be. I don't know what specifically. (Confirmation bais?
Excitement? Elitism? Herd behaviour?) But it surely couldn't be this
popular otherwise. One person believing something silly could just be
delusional. But millions choosing to believe something silly? There must
be some deeper reason for why.
Of course, if you want to believe that the Lock Ness Monster is real,
that's fine by me. But when people are *dying* needlessly because of
some stupid conspiracy theory... this is "not fine". It's not fine at all!
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Invisible wrote:
> (For example, you show people photos from a pair of digital cameras.
> Most people prefer camera X, and a few prefer camera Y. Now you tell
> them that camera X is 5 megapixels, but camera Y is 10 megapixels.
> Suddenly everybody prefers the photos from camera Y. WTF??)
>
> I worry about the human race... Seriously, how did a species so stupid
> survive for so long?
Don't confuse stupidity with the inability to be objective. And to be
fair, the latter is hard, and needs overt training. Besides, why the
belief that intelligence has much to do with survival?
We're still quite ignorant about the human brain and psychology. When I
see stuff like:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html
I realize that I'd be the stupid one to have pre-conceived assumptions
on what's normal behavior. Expecting people to be something other than
what the brain naturally provides, and not even being sure on what the
is natural for the brain, is ludicrous.
--
If you ate pasta and antipasta, would you still be hungry?
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Invisible wrote:
> Of course, if you want to believe that the Lock Ness Monster is real,
No one believes in the Lock Ness monster.
The Loch Ness monster, however, is another story.
> that's fine by me. But when people are *dying* needlessly because of
> some stupid conspiracy theory... this is "not fine". It's not fine at all!
It's fine if they choose it and don't damage others.
--
If you ate pasta and antipasta, would you still be hungry?
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> they eventually started to give the same answer as the
> rest of the group. WTF?
I saw Candid Camera do this with an elevator in an office building. They
eventually had the guy facing the back, with his hat off, covering his rump
with it. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Warp wrote:
> Maybe this is something related to human psychology.
I remember reading something about this. If you're in a tribe of 100 people,
most everyone is somewhat dependent on everyone else, so the likelihood that
someone would lie to you about something important is low. Except for things
like competition, mates, etc, for which we seem to have little trouble
catching liars.
If there's something unobvious going on, it's a survival benefit to know
about it, and hearing it from someone whose welfare is interrelated to yours
is a pretty reliable indicator compared to finding out on your own with
possible disastrous consequences.
Of course, this is yet another Just So explanation.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I remember reading something about this. If you're in a tribe of 100 people,
> most everyone is somewhat dependent on everyone else, so the likelihood that
> someone would lie to you about something important is low. Except for things
> like competition, mates, etc, for which we seem to have little trouble
> catching liars.
> If there's something unobvious going on, it's a survival benefit to know
> about it, and hearing it from someone whose welfare is interrelated to yours
> is a pretty reliable indicator compared to finding out on your own with
> possible disastrous consequences.
> Of course, this is yet another Just So explanation.
Yeah, it sounds like another evolution psychology story.
Not that it isn't true or based on facts. It's just hard to know what
is really caused by genetic inheritance, and what is caused by something
else.
One could go the other way around and say that believing conspiracy
theories is the opposite of herd behavior. But this doesn't mean it's a
good thing. Herd behavior, although it's almost always used with a negative
connotation, is not necessarily a bad thing. Individuals survive better
when they are part of a larger group and act the same as the others, thus
contributing to the whole, thus helping everyone survive. If someone goes
against the herd, he will be singled out, and possibly thrown out of the
herd because he doesn't want to be like the others, to his detriment or
even demise.
Basically, behaving differently from others may be *against* survival
instinct, and can be personally destructive.
But why do humans have such a strong instinct of being individuals,
being different, standing out? What can be gained from this behavior?
Is believing in conspiracy theories part of this phenomenon?
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> One could go the other way around and say that believing conspiracy
> theories is the opposite of herd behavior.
Actually, it was kind of my point that it *is* herd behavior. But now we
have lots of people from outside the "herd" pretending to be in the herd.
Sort of like how you can spook a whole herd of horses or birds by having one
run (or fly) thru the crowd. What's a stampede if not a conspiracy theory
that someone unknown is attacking members of the group?
And then lions use this to their advantage, having one lioness spook a group
of animals towards a bunch of other lionesses hiding in the grass. Which is
kind of what we see with conspiracy theory con-men.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Invisible wrote:
>
http://www.badscience.net/2009/01/what-if-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-aids-was-wrong/
>
>
> For reasons I can't entirely put my finger on, I find this whole thing
> really disturbing.
>
> Maybe I just find it upsetting that hundreds of scientists have spent
> thousands of man-years pouring research into this lethal disease to find
> out what causes it, but then some random person goes "hey, actually, I
> think really you're all wrong - I don't have any logic or evidence, I
> just believe this, for no particular reason". And now other people
> actually *believe* this nonesense. And people are dying because of it.
One blogger has studied the phenomena extensively and come up with a
deck of cards you can use when reading these things. When ever they make
some idiot argument, you just play the card that corresponds to the
tactic. lol First article in their list of cards is:
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/04/denialists_deck_of_cards_the_2.php
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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Invisible escreveu:
>>> GroupThink is scary.
>>
>> Doubly scary as that was the example I was thinking of :-)
>
> NOO! WE'RE ALL LEMMINGS!! ;_;
My pet view of most of mankind is as bovines: slowly muching away their
grass, thoughtless expression in the face, always following the rest of
the band.
Very few individuals are able to step away from the herd and see the
bigger picture, and not be influenced by it. Those can clearly see
where to go and think of how to get there. They thus become the group's
leaders.
You wouldn't believe how bad and perverse group thinking can be in a 3rd
world country like Brazil. It means poor, analphabetized folks led by
bad pirated, loud paranoid music and movies, getting subjobs and trying
to act cool like TV celebrities by having drug-fueled group sex parties
without condoms still as teens. Which eventually leads to poorer and
dumber generations still to come. I see no hope for these poor,
acephalic souls...
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