On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:04:39 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>>> You can't cut paper with a knife, man!!
>> 
>> Three things.
>> 1.	If you can't cut paper with a knife, then your knife is not sharp
>> enough. I test my knife by shaving the edge off a cigarette paper.
>
>Right. And after you've used the knife trice, it'll be blunt. :-P
>

Not if it's good steel. You can always sharpen it again too :P

>> 2.	Swiss army knifes generally have a pair of scissors. 
>
>Now that's more like it...
>
>> 3.	The best way to cut paper with scissors is not to use a cutting motion
>> but to start the cut then glide the scissors through the paper.
>
>Yes - but only if they're sharp.

The best type.
Blunt knifes and scissors cause more accidents than sharp ones.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:03:42 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>
>> http://www.girlguiding.org.uk/brownies/
>
>"This area is for cool, highly intelligent and fantastically fantastic 
>brownies!"
>
>
>
>How intelligent do you need to be to use a phrase like "fantastically 
>fantastic"? :-P

Between 7 and 10 years old ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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>> Right. And after you've used the knife trice, it'll be blunt. :-P

> Not if it's good steel. You can always sharpen it again too :P

Right. And how exactly do you sharpen a knife? :-P

> Blunt knifes and scissors cause more accidents than sharp ones.

Probably.

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>> How intelligent do you need to be to use a phrase like "fantastically 
>> fantastic"? :-P
> 
> Between 7 and 10 years old ;)

Isn't that kind of patronising to young girls who geniunely *are* highly 
intelligent?

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:34:04 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> You'll notice I purchased it from John Lewis. In other words, if there  
>>> *is* a problem, I'll actually _get_ some ****ing _SERVICE_. ;-)
>>  Indeed certain stores of a certain group don't have the best in  
>> after-care service. It may cost a little more now, but it can often  
>> make the difference.
>
> Indeed. I bought a large LCD computer monitor from John Lewis. After  
> about 8 months, the backlight quit working. IIRC, it took something like  
> a week for them to deliver a brand new replacement monitor and take the  
> old one away. Which isn't bad really, eh?

Not bad.

> Also nice is the fact that their staff generally *have* a clue...  
> although there's not what I'd call "experts", they at least have some  
> idea what they're talking about.
>
> The only problem is that they don't sell a huge range of stuff. (Or at  
> least, stuff I'd want to buy.) Having just said that, last week they  
> sold me a Tilby and some rather fetching gloves...

Tilby? Hmm I'm trying to picture you in a trilby.

>> Obviously on commission :-P
>
> Clearly. ;-)
>
> On the other hand... don't you just hate it when you go somewhere and  
> you're all like "yes, I'd like to buy this £2,000 item here please" and  
> they're all like "meh, I can't be bothered, go away". (!!)

Nah never had that... oh wait ;-)

>>> And it only cost, like, £2 for the gift wrap. (YOU try wrapping  
>>> something this big! It's not easy... They did a far better job than I  
>>> ever could. Even if the wrapping paper *was* lame.)
>>  Actually I'm not bad at wrapping various shapes up having had large  
>> amounts of practice when young, sometimes it can be fun as in when I  
>> wrapped up a round tin in two sheets of paper (simple silver foil and a  
>> translucent gold) to make it look like a giant toffee.
>
> See, now I *suck* at wrapping things. I seem to have scisors that are  
> too blunt to cut the paper,

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:07:40 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
did spake thusly:

> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)

Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)

> and a reel of tape that's wider in the center than at the edges, so the  
> tape always curls when you pull it off.

Que?

> Plus the scisors won't get the tape either.

Wow how blunt are these scissors? Sounds like you need a whetstone.

> One thing I *have* discovered though... paper weights aren't just pretty  
> to look at. Those buggers are USEFUL too!! ;-)

Mugs are also useful... especially if you can get them to just put their  
finger there for just a moment.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Indeed. I bought a large LCD computer monitor from John Lewis. After 
>> about 8 months, the backlight quit working. IIRC, it took something 
>> like a week for them to deliver a brand new replacement monitor and 
>> take the old one away. Which isn't bad really, eh?
> 
> Not bad.

That's what I call service! ;-)

>> The only problem is that they don't sell a huge range of stuff. (Or at 
>> least, stuff I'd want to buy.) Having just said that, last week they 
>> sold me a Tilby and some rather fetching gloves...
> 
> Tilby? Hmm I'm trying to picture you in a trilby.

OK, so I didn't press the key hard enough! :-P

If I get time I'll take a photograph... with the brown shirt, brown 
pinstripe trousers and matching brown pinstripe Trilby, *I* think I look 
rather dashing. ;-) Certainly it caused a stir at work yesterday...

>> On the other hand... don't you just hate it when you go somewhere and 
>> you're all like "yes, I'd like to buy this £2,000 item here please" 
>> and they're all like "meh, I can't be bothered, go away". (!!)
> 
> Nah never had that... oh wait ;-)

YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE!!

>> and a reel of tape that's wider in the center than at the edges, so 
>> the tape always curls when you pull it off.
> 
> Que?

I mean the reel is spherical rather than cylindrical. :-P It's warped 
slightly...

>> Plus the scisors won't get the tape either.
> 
> Wow how blunt are these scissors? Sounds like you need a whetstone.

Well, technically they *cut* the tape... but the tape then sticks to 
them. I'd assert that I need a tape dispenser! ;-)

> Mugs are also useful... especially if you can get them to just put their 
> finger there for just a moment.

Phahahahaa!

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:19:38 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> Stephen wrote:
>
>> Have a brownie point.
>
> Question: How many brownie points do you need to earn before you can  
> redeem them for an actual brownie?

Pfft I don't deal in mythological beings (triple meaning)

Harkens back to an age though Boy Scouts (traversing the unknown) versus  
the Girl Guides (showing off the places the boys have found) and then the  
Cubs and Brownies... hold on shouldn't that be the Cubs and the Cubs?

As an aside Bratus Major's in the Scouts and was made Pack Leader in  
Feburary ish though his parents didn't find out about it until November;  
and then from someone else. According to him his pack's name is "Dunno" or  
"Don't remember" though after much brain-wracking it could be "Wolves";  
seriously how do you forget a name like that?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:03:42 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> Stephen wrote:
>
>> http://www.girlguiding.org.uk/brownies/
>
> "This area is for cool, highly intelligent and fantastically fantastic  
> brownies!"

Our records show this IP address registered to a single male and as such  
your visit here has been logged and may be used against you in a court of  
law you pervert! Expect a knock on the door from the police within the  
minute.


Worrying that I'm only semi-joking.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook v2 wrote:

> Our records show this IP address registered to a single male and as such 
> your visit here has been logged and may be used against you in a court 
> of law you pervert! Expect a knock on the door from the police within 
> the minute.
> 
> 
> Worrying that I'm only semi-joking.

Yeah. Because no single male would be the father of a girl who happens 
to be a brownie. No, sir! ;-)

(Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address 
belongs to...)

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:09:57 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>>> Right. And after you've used the knife trice, it'll be blunt. :-P
>
>> Not if it's good steel. You can always sharpen it again too :P
>
>Right. And how exactly do you sharpen a knife? :-P
>

There are several ways, the traditional method is with a whetstone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpening_stone
You can use a Sharpening Steel like chefs do, a grinder or one of the various
tools that are sold in hardware shops. 
It does take a bit of practice.

>> Blunt knifes and scissors cause more accidents than sharp ones.
>
>Probably.

Without a doubt.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:26:25 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> The only problem is that they don't sell a huge range of stuff. (Or at  
>>> least, stuff I'd want to buy.) Having just said that, last week they  
>>> sold me a Tilby and some rather fetching gloves...
>>  Tilby? Hmm I'm trying to picture you in a trilby.
>
> OK, so I didn't press the key hard enough! :-P
>
> If I get time I'll take a photograph... with the brown shirt, brown  
> pinstripe trousers and matching brown pinstripe Trilby, *I* think I look  
> rather dashing. ;-) Certainly it caused a stir at work yesterday...

They were all probably wondering what a tree was doing in reception :-P

>>> On the other hand... don't you just hate it when you go somewhere and  
>>> you're all like "yes, I'd like to buy this £2,000 item here please"  
>>> and they're all like "meh, I can't be bothered, go away". (!!)
>>  Nah never had that... oh wait ;-)
>
> YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE!!

Nah not as if I was recently looking to spend £1,500 on a couple of TV's  
or something.

>>> and a reel of tape that's wider in the center than at the edges, so  
>>> the tape always curls when you pull it off.
>>  Que?
>
> I mean the reel is spherical rather than cylindrical. :-P It's warped  
> slightly...

[Blinks] Um how old is this reel of tape, does it have the words Sellotape  
First Prototype written on the inside?

>>> Plus the scisors won't get the tape either.
>>  Wow how blunt are these scissors? Sounds like you need a whetstone.
>
> Well, technically they *cut* the tape... but the tape then sticks to  
> them. I'd assert that I need a tape dispenser! ;-)

Yeah but depending on what type you get the tape can dry out. Besides -  
put the reel on the last three fingers of one hand, the end of the tape on  
your thumb, and your index finger at the point between the reel and the  
loose tape; keep taut and cut perpendicularly.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:40:37 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>
>> Our records show this IP address registered to a single male and as  
>> such your visit here has been logged and may be used against you in a  
>> court of law you pervert! Expect a knock on the door from the police  
>> within the minute.
>>   Worrying that I'm only semi-joking.
>
> Yeah. Because no single male would be the father of a girl who happens  
> to be a brownie. No, sir! ;-)
>
> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address  
> belongs to...)

Why would that be? Your ISP knows who's connecting to them and what IP  
address has been assigned to them. If the company keeps its own logs then  
it's simply a matter of matching up times. Come the official police state  
and we'll all have fixed IP addresses tied to our ID cards and it'll be a  
criminal offence to use a different one.

On an even easier note if you've signed up to Google (or don't clear your  
cookies) and did the search there then they at least know exactly who you  
are and what you like to search for; all it'll take is a court order and  
voila.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address 
>> belongs to...)
> 
> Why would that be?

...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at random?

> Your ISP knows who's connecting to them and what IP 
> address has been assigned to them. If the company keeps its own logs 
> then it's simply a matter of matching up times.

Excep that I'm almost certain that it's illegal for ISPs to give out 
that kind of information. (I'm also almost certain they don't even 
record it in the first place, because it would be too hard.)

> Come the official police 
> state and we'll all have fixed IP addresses tied to our ID cards and 
> it'll be a criminal offence to use a different one.

Yeah, ain't that the truth...

> On an even easier note if you've signed up to Google (or don't clear 
> your cookies) and did the search there then they at least know exactly 
> who you are and what you like to search for; all it'll take is a court 
> order and voila.

Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?

(Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:22:02 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>
>And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:07:40 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
>did spake thusly:
>
>> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)
>
>Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)
>
There's no need to fight, Phil. Leatherman are good multi tools but they don't
suit my needs. I have one but seldom use it. To be honest, with my Swiss Army
knife, after the blade the tool I use most is the corkscrew :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:10:31 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>>> How intelligent do you need to be to use a phrase like "fantastically 
>>> fantastic"? :-P
>> 
>> Between 7 and 10 years old ;)
>
>Isn't that kind of patronising to young girls who geniunely *are* highly 
>intelligent?

I dinnae ken so I'll leave it to our young girls to answer :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:22:12 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
did spake thusly:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:22:02 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>>
>> And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:07:40 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>
>> did spake thusly:
>>
>>> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)
>>
>> Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)
>>
> There's no need to fight, Phil. Leatherman are good multi tools but they  
> don't
> suit my needs. I have one but seldom use it. To be honest, with my Swiss  
> Army
> knife, after the blade the tool I use most is the corkscrew :)

And the Spartan is about a third the price of the C2, so fairy nuff.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:19:11 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address  
>>> belongs to...)
>>  Why would that be?
>
> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people  
> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at  
> random?

Except they know the telephone number you're connecting from, unless you  
hide it and then some won't let you connect.

>> Your ISP knows who's connecting to them and what IP address has been  
>> assigned to them. If the company keeps its own logs then it's simply a  
>> matter of matching up times.
>
> Excep that I'm almost certain that it's illegal for ISPs to give out  
> that kind of information. (I'm also almost certain they don't even  
> record it in the first place, because it would be too hard.)

Check various communications laws, there's normally a bunch of provisos  
about providing information. How do you think the police get hold of  
telephone records?

>> Come the official police state and we'll all have fixed IP addresses  
>> tied to our ID cards and it'll be a criminal offence to use a different  
>> one.
>
> Yeah, ain't that the truth...
>
>> On an even easier note if you've signed up to Google (or don't clear  
>> your cookies) and did the search there then they at least know exactly  
>> who you are and what you like to search for; all it'll take is a court  
>> order and voila.
>
> Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?

Check your stats pages you might see a referrer address so they know where  
you came from, they then track you through their site. Now look closely at  
the results google presents say for "test"

The first result is "Test.com Web Based Testing Software" hover over it  
and it'll take you to www.test.com right? Wrong! Pull up the properties of  
the link and you'll see it's going to  
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.test.com%2F&ei=Bag2Sb7LB6HcwwH00_ygCA&usg=AFQjCNH21KLjC0CBkjon2DwD_CZ0HApLMw&sig2=vLPKI-AayJcm2Yjw8x974w

They know where you came from, what you were doing on their site, and  
where you left for.

> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)

For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:33:35 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>And the Spartan is about a third the price of the C2, so fairy nuff.

Woosh!
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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>>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP 
>>>> address belongs to...)
>>>  Why would that be?
>>
>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at 
>> random?
> 
> Except they know the telephone number you're connecting from, unless you 
> hide it and then some won't let you connect.

This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of 
several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.

> Check various communications laws, there's normally a bunch of provisos 
> about providing information. How do you think the police get hold of 
> telephone records?

OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to 
give it to anybody else, are they? :-P

>> Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?
> 
> Check your stats pages you might see a referrer address so they know 
> where you came from, they then track you through their site. Now look 
> closely at the results google presents say for "test"
> 
> The first result is "Test.com Web Based Testing Software" hover over it 
> and it'll take you to www.test.com right? Wrong! Pull up the properties 
> of the link and you'll see it's going to 
>
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.test.com%2F&ei=Bag2S
> 
> They know where you came from, what you were doing on their site, and 
> where you left for.

OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I 
searched for. :-P

>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
> 
> For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?

...wuh?

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:45:59 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
did spake thusly:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:33:35 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>> And the Spartan is about a third the price of the C2, so fairy nuff.
>
> Woosh!

Spartan being the SAK with blade and corkscew and C2 being the cheapest LM  
of similar design. Just looked up recent prices - £9 vs. £50 woah a fifth  
of the price.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49369337@news.povray.org...
>>> Right. And after you've used the knife trice, it'll be blunt. :-P
>
>> Not if it's good steel. You can always sharpen it again too :P
>
> Right. And how exactly do you sharpen a knife? :-P

You take it to a shop that offers sharpening services and ask them to do it.

If your knife blunts after cutting paper, it's a very poor quality knife.

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:48:35 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP  
>>>>> address belongs to...)
>>>>  Why would that be?
>>>
>>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people  
>>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at  
>>> random?
>>  Except they know the telephone number you're connecting from, unless  
>> you hide it and then some won't let you connect.
>
> This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of  
> several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.

Customer A from phone-line B is assigned IP C at Time D
Customer A from phone-line B with IP C logs off at Time D, IP C returned  
to pool

To put it another way you're charged per unit (normally megabyte) for  
information downloaded to your mobile, how does your telecom provider know  
that's you getting that data?

>> Check various communications laws, there's normally a bunch of provisos  
>> about providing information. How do you think the police get hold of  
>> telephone records?
>
> OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to  
> give it to anybody else, are they? :-P

Oh no of course not, it's also not likely that the DVLA will hand out  
information to anyone who sets up a Parking Enforcement company and can  
fill in an online form.

>>> Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?
>>  Check your stats pages you might see a referrer address so they know  
>> where you came from, they then track you through their site. Now look  
>> closely at the results google presents say for "test"
>>  The first result is "Test.com Web Based Testing Software" hover over  
>> it and it'll take you to www.test.com right? Wrong! Pull up the  
>> properties of the link and you'll see it's going to  
>>
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.test.com%2F&ei=Bag2S
>>  They know where you came from, what you were doing on their site, and  
>> where you left for.
>
> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I  
> searched for. :-P

Referrer address = http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=   test    
&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr$3DcountryUK$7CcountryGB  
even features on some sites now with "[IP address] has landed on this site  
searching for [test]" even tries to resolve the IP Address to a place  
based on the ISP - used to have me as Brum now it thinks I'm in  
Cheltenham. And all that without the ISP logs ;-)

>>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
>>  For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?
>
> ...wuh?

www.google.co.uk/ig

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4936a36b$1@news.povray.org...
>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address 
>>> belongs to...)
>>
>> Why would that be?
>
> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at random?

IPs are not given out at random.  Each ISP has a range that they are allowed 
to assign. The IP address can be tracked back to the ISP. From there, 
depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably tell what username 
was usign that IP at that time.

If they were given at random, there would be IP conflicts

Post a reply to this message

>> This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of 
>> several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.
> 
> To put it another way you're charged per unit (normally megabyte) for 
> information downloaded to your mobile, how does your telecom provider 
> know that's you getting that data?

Hmm, OK.

>> OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to 
>> give it to anybody else, are they? :-P
> 
> Oh no of course not, it's also not likely that the DVLA will hand out 
> information to anyone who sets up a Parking Enforcement company and can 
> fill in an online form.

I don't follow.

>> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I 
>> searched for. :-P
> 
> Referrer address = http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=   test   

> even features on some sites now with "[IP address] has landed on this 
> site searching for [test]" even tries to resolve the IP Address to a 
> place based on the ISP - used to have me as Brum now it thinks I'm in 
> Cheltenham. And all that without the ISP logs ;-)

Yeah, and some sites manage to figure out that I'm in Milton Keynes.

Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)

>>>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
>>>  For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?
>>
>> ...wuh?
> 
> www.google.co.uk/ig

Hmm... mildly entertaining, but... useful?

Post a reply to this message

>>> Why would that be?
>>
>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at 
>> random?
> 
> IPs are not given out at random.  Each ISP has a range that they are 
> allowed to assign. The IP address can be tracked back to the ISP.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I meant they're assigned at random from the 
pool of addresses belonging to that ISP.

> From 
> there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably tell what 
> username was usign that IP at that time.

This is the part that I doubt.

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4936aa55$1@news.povray.org...
>
> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I searched 
> for. :-P
>

Sure they do. It's in the http header.

My blog stats page gives me back the all search terms people used to reach 
my blog. It does that by checking and recording the http referrer for each 
visit and parsing the search terms out if its a search engine.

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4936b046$1@news.povray.org...

>> From there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably tell 
>> what username was usign that IP at that time.
>
> This is the part that I doubt.

Why?

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:54:36 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>
>Spartan being the SAK with blade and corkscew and C2 being the cheapest LM  
>of similar design. Just looked up recent prices - £9 vs. £50 woah a fifth  
>of the price.

Mine was a safety award, so it cost me nada :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>>> From there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably 
>>> tell what username was usign that IP at that time.
>>
>> This is the part that I doubt.
> 
> Why?

What use would an ISP have for recording this information?

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 18:25:19 +0200, "Gail" <gail (at) sql in the wild (dot) co
[dot] za> wrote:

>
>"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
>news:4936b046$1@news.povray.org...
>
>>> From there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably tell 
>>> what username was usign that IP at that time.
>>
>> This is the part that I doubt.
>
>Why?
>
NTB ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> 
>> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)
> 
> Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)
> 

Honestly, I've heard of it called more a cutaman than a leatherman.

Every time you get it out to use it, you cut yourself.

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:27:35 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>>>> From there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably 
>>>> tell what username was usign that IP at that time.
>>>
>>> This is the part that I doubt.
>> 
>> Why?
>
>What use would an ISP have for recording this information?

Can't the police request this info from the ISP for reasons of national security
and calling someone a Paedo?
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:29:52 -0500, Tom Austin <taustin> wrote:

>Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> 
>>> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)
>> 
>> Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)
>> 
>
>Honestly, I've heard of it called more a cutaman than a leatherman.
>
>Every time you get it out to use it, you cut yourself.

Isn't that a Kukri?
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:12:55 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of  
>>> several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.
>>  To put it another way you're charged per unit (normally megabyte) for  
>> information downloaded to your mobile, how does your telecom provider  
>> know that's you getting that data?
>
> Hmm, OK.
>
>>> OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to  
>>> give it to anybody else, are they? :-P
>>  Oh no of course not, it's also not likely that the DVLA will hand out  
>> information to anyone who sets up a Parking Enforcement company and can  
>> fill in an online form.
>
> I don't follow.

Sorry another story that's been buried under the Green story, private  
companies are by-passing things like Criminal Records Checks to get  
information. All they have to do is fill in a form from the DVLA with your  
licence plate and state that you were illegally parked - et voila the DVLA  
sends back to them your name, address, car details etc.

>>> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I  
>>> searched for. :-P
>>  Referrer address = http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=   test
>
>> even features on some sites now with "[IP address] has landed on this  
>> site searching for [test]" even tries to resolve the IP Address to a  
>> place based on the ISP - used to have me as Brum now it thinks I'm in  
>> Cheltenham. And all that without the ISP logs ;-)
>
> Yeah, and some sites manage to figure out that I'm in Milton Keynes.
>
> Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)

Over 200,000 last count, but how many searching for "test" at 16:12 on Wed  
02?

>>>>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
>>>>  For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?
>>>
>>> ...wuh?
>>  www.google.co.uk/ig
>
> Hmm... mildly entertaining, but... useful?

Got the comment feed from my blog, plus a satellite photo of the UK,  
calendar, and news.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

>> I don't follow.
> 
> Sorry another story that's been buried under the Green story, private 
> companies are by-passing things like Criminal Records Checks to get 
> information. All they have to do is fill in a form from the DVLA with 
> your licence plate and state that you were illegally parked - et voila 
> the DVLA sends back to them your name, address, car details etc.

Oh that's... cute. O_O

>> Yeah, and some sites manage to figure out that I'm in Milton Keynes.
>>
>> Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)
> 
> Over 200,000 last count, but how many searching for "test" at 16:12 on 
> Wed 02?

Probably not many. No way of knowing *who* though. :-P

>>>  www.google.co.uk/ig
>>
>> Hmm... mildly entertaining, but... useful?
> 
> Got the comment feed from my blog, plus a satellite photo of the UK, 
> calendar, and news.

Each to their own... ;-)

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:13:55 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>>> Why would that be?
>>>
>>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people  
>>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at  
>>> random?
>>  IPs are not given out at random.  Each ISP has a range that they are  
>> allowed to assign. The IP address can be tracked back to the ISP.
>
> Yes, I'm well aware of that. I meant they're assigned at random from the  
> pool of addresses belonging to that ISP.

That wouldn't make financial sense. LIFO means that if I've bought a batch  
of 100 numbers to use I can see I've never gone above address 50; so I can  
return or sell on say 25 to someone else. Think about buying every member  
of your 100-strong staff a licence for Software X, they all use it but  
you've only a maximum of 10 doing so at one time.

>> From there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably  
>> tell what username was usign that IP at that time.
>
> This is the part that I doubt.

I'd echo Gail, but you've already answered her. To posit a non-national  
security/by law suggestion - Data Mining; especially if you haven't ticked  
that no third-party box. Been looking up recipies for avocados expect an  
email from the National Association of Avocardo Growers about local  
producers ;-)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:40:08 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> Yeah, and some sites manage to figure out that I'm in Milton Keynes.
>>>
>>> Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)
>>  Over 200,000 last count, but how many searching for "test" at 16:12 on  
>> Wed 02?
>
> Probably not many. No way of knowing *who* though. :-P

Police shut down paedo/jihad site, find logs, check referrers and ask  
Google and ISPs to provide matching information. I'm not talking in  
theory, it's been done.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:25:55 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
did spake thusly:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:54:36 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Spartan being the SAK with blade and corkscew and C2 being the cheapest  
>> LM
>> of similar design. Just looked up recent prices - £9 vs. £50 woah a  
>> fifth
>> of the price.
>
> Mine was a safety award, so it cost me nada :)

LOL What was it an attempt to let someone else win next time?  
"Congratulations on your excellent safety record, here have a nice sharp  
knife for your very own. I'll hope you'll carry it around with you at all  
times"

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

>>>> Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)
>>>  Over 200,000 last count, but how many searching for "test" at 16:12 
>>> on Wed 02?
>>
>> Probably not many. No way of knowing *who* though. :-P
> 
> Police shut down paedo/jihad site, find logs, check referrers and ask 
> Google and ISPs to provide matching information. I'm not talking in 
> theory, it's been done.

OK, so if the police shut down the brownie's website, they might be able 
to figure out what I visited it. But they're not going to, are they?

I'm sure if a sufficiently resourceful government organisation wants to 
find out who's using a given IP address, they can find out. What I'm 
saying is that the brownies themselves can't passively obtain this 
information just because I visit their site.

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> 
> Three things.
> 1.	If you can't cut paper with a knife, then your knife is not sharp
> enough. I test my knife by shaving the edge off a cigarette paper.

I second that, even though I don't use cigarette paper (I don't smoke).

> 2.	Swiss army knifes generally have a pair of scissors. 

I also second that, but it's not 100% sure (like you wrote, generally -
not always).

> 3.	The best way to cut paper with scissors is not to use a cutting motion
> but to start the cut then glide the scissors through the paper.

I also second this, but you'll need to have scissors sharp enough
(surprisingly).

> Like Phil I'm good at wrapping things. :)

I'm not.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> 
> Right. And after you've used the knife trice, it'll be blunt. :-P
> 

That means the knife is crap. Get a real knife instead (try the swiss
army ones, for example).

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

Phil Cook v2 wrote:

>> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)
> 
> Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)
> 

Both are good, though older leathermans tend to have such sharp edges
that you can't actually use them as proper tools.

I use SAK's since I've got two of them for free - no need to spend money
if it's not necessary.

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:51:56 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>>>> Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)
>>>>  Over 200,000 last count, but how many searching for "test" at 16:12  
>>>> on Wed 02?
>>>
>>> Probably not many. No way of knowing *who* though. :-P
>>  Police shut down paedo/jihad site, find logs, check referrers and ask  
>> Google and ISPs to provide matching information. I'm not talking in  
>> theory, it's been done.
>
> OK, so if the police shut down the brownie's website, they might be able  
> to figure out what I visited it. But they're not going to, are they?
>
> I'm sure if a sufficiently resourceful government organisation wants to  
> find out who's using a given IP address, they can find out. What I'm  
> saying is that the brownies themselves can't passively obtain this  
> information just because I visit their site.

No, but they could spot that a certain IP (some ISPs like to fix your  
number) visits quite regularly and spends a lot of time on the galleries  
and contact the police about it. Not saying anything would be done about  
it, but in this current climate it wouldn't surprise me at all.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of 
> several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.

I wouldn't want to use an ISP that couldn't keep track of which computers 
are connected to their network. I wouldn't use a mobile phone company that 
couldn't tell where my phone was at any given time, either. They sort of 
*have* to to make the service work, yes?

> OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to 
> give it to anybody else, are they? :-P

Depends. If the court orders them to give the records to a private company, 
then sure. (Like, if someone things you stole something or otherwise 
committed a civil crime over the internet, anyone suing you might be able to 
get the records.)  Certainly true in the USA.

If someone sues you for contract violations in the UK, don't they have the 
ability to make you reveal records related to the lawsuit?

> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I 
> searched for. :-P

But google can tell them. There may be an interface that they can see that, 
too.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The NFL should go international. I'd pay to
   see the Detroit Lions vs the Roman Catholics.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Probably not many. No way of knowing *who* though. :-P

You would be surprised. If you ever ordered something online, for example, 
somebody knows who it was. There are entire systems set up to figure out 
which IPs are in what areas based on people with close IP numbers filling 
out demographics on cooperating systems.  I.e., I have 192.23.45.12, and 
someone with 192.23.45.15 fills out a form somewhere that says they live on 
my street. There's a good chance 192.23.45.12 is in the same postal code. 
That's part of how "geolocation" works.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The NFL should go international. I'd pay to
   see the Detroit Lions vs the Roman Catholics.

Post a reply to this message

Gail wrote:
> depending what records the ISP keeps, 


And lots of places are passing laws requiring ISPs to keep more records, and 
turn them over with less provocation and proof than ever.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The NFL should go international. I'd pay to
   see the Detroit Lions vs the Roman Catholics.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> What use would an ISP have for recording this information?

First, they have to know who you are to validate you're allowed to use their 
network, right?  You log in with name and password.

Second, they keep it because when the police show up and say "Hey, someone 
broke into the NSA servers from IP address x.x.x.x at yy:yy" and the ISP 
says "Sorry, can't help you", the ISP gets in trouble.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The NFL should go international. I'd pay to
   see the Detroit Lions vs the Roman Catholics.

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:49:10 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>> Mine was a safety award, so it cost me nada :)
>
>LOL What was it an attempt to let someone else win next time?  
>"Congratulations on your excellent safety record, here have a nice sharp  
>knife for your very own. I'll hope you'll carry it around with you at all  
>times"

No the whole crew got one for X many days without a lost time accident. And
every one did carry a knife. If you don't work in an office then it is pretty
much essential. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Gail wrote:

> If your knife blunts after cutting paper, it's a very poor quality knife.

Quite possibly. The "3 cuts" was an exaggeration of course, but IME any 
knife, no matter how sharp initially, quickly becomes as blunt as all 
the other knives in the building.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> Isn't that kind of patronising to young girls who geniunely *are* highly 
>> intelligent?
> 
> I dinnae ken so I'll leave it to our young girls to answer :)

I'll tell you what mate, if any young, intelligent 7 year old girls 
actually answer this post, I'll buy you a friggin drink myself! :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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