St. wrote:

>    You're not that far from Northamton are you? Go for this job, they want 
> someone quickly:
> 
>     http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=42113428&Location=32
> 
>    Look at what they're willing to pay - if you're lucky in the interview, 
> you might just get the job and that money, and if you think that the 
> interviewer is trying to fob you off or it's not sounding promising, then 
> you could always say that you would accept something like £28,000 as a last 
> resort.
> 
>   If I was in your position right now, Northampton is where I'd be heading.

It has a flavour...

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49257a9e$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>>   If I was in your position right now, Northampton is where I'd be 
>> heading.
>
> It has a flavour...

    It's something you could do. Go for it. I don't know how far from 
Northampton you are, (I assume you're fairly close though), but even if it 
meant a train journey, it would be worth it - well, that's better than 
driving that's for sure.

   Just take the plunge, and see what happens, and if you get it, lend me a 
tenner. ;)

     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:

>     It's something you could do. Go for it. I don't know how far from 
> Northampton you are, (I assume you're fairly close though), but even if it 
> meant a train journey, it would be worth it - well, that's better than 
> driving that's for sure.

It's pretty close. You have to drive down winding country roads and 
through several villages with low speed limits, but the actual distance 
isn't that far.

>    Just take the plunge, and see what happens, and if you get it, lend me a 
> tenner. ;)

Hee! Normal recruiters want you to *give* them a tenner, not "lend". ;-)

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49257f75$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
>>     It's something you could do. Go for it. I don't know how far from 
>> Northampton you are, (I assume you're fairly close though), but even if 
>> it meant a train journey, it would be worth it - well, that's better than 
>> driving that's for sure.
>
> It's pretty close. You have to drive down winding country roads and 
> through several villages with low speed limits, but the actual distance 
> isn't that far.


   Cool, even better. I know you like your driving.


>
>>    Just take the plunge, and see what happens, and if you get it, lend me 
>> a tenner. ;)
>
> Hee! Normal recruiters want you to *give* them a tenner, not "lend". ;-)

   HAHA! True, so GIVE me a tenner!  <eg>

   Are you going to go for it Andrew? Please say yes. Just think, at the end 
of *next week* you might be worth £35,000 A YEAR! And if, once you get there 
and you find that you 'hate it', well, it's no different to the job you hate 
now, but you'd be mega bucks better off  for it.

   Personally though, I think you'll be a far lot happier if you did get the 
job - you'd meet new people, (girls!), new workmates, and some of them might 
have the same interests as you. You just don't know if you don't try.

 Damn, I'd beat their door down for that job.

   ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>  Damn, I'd beat their door down for that job.
>
>    ~Steve~

Yeah! But with a salary of 30,000 - 35,000 there will be 4000 people applying
for the job.

BTW Andrew, did you look at the modified CV I tarted up for you? I thought that
we could have a game of "polish up the CV ping pong".

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> ....unless they say "so how much are you expecting us to pay you?" ;-)

Anyone who is the first to give a number in a negotiation loses.

The right answer to this question is "what's the range you've budgetted 
for the job?"  Followed by "I can work with that."

If they ask "What did you make at the last job?" the answer is "I've 
made between $X and $Y in previous positions."  Of course, you're just 
starting out, so that's difficult. Instead a good answer is "I'd like to 
start with $X at this position."  What you made in the job you're 
leaving is irrelevant and detrimental.

Other countries, of course, may have other customs.

I'd suggest picking up a book on negotiating tactics. It'll be well 
worth the price, and easy to understand.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> Exactly.  You never know, once you tell them you are leaving for another 
> job, they might offer you a pay rise to keep you. 

And it's always a *terrible* idea to accept that. Because then they'll 
be looking for a replacement for you, knowing you are looking to leave. 
You get booted out on their schedule, not yours.

If you want to go that way, tell you boss you need more money, not that 
you're looking for a different job.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>>> This is again untrue. The scripts don't "correct" anything,
>> You never wrote a script that fixed something?
> Nope.

So, the script that checks the CDs, or that does the pings... what did 
you do with the output of those?  Toss it away after looking at it, 
going "Hmmm, interesting."   Or did you (for example) give the ping 
report to the ISP to get them to diagnose the problem from their end?

>> Suggestion: don't put on your resume that there are a whole bunch of 
>> other more-experienced people available, either. They know that too. :-)
> 
> Right, so... why are they going to hire me again??

Because you're there, and the experienced people are happy where they 
are? :)

>>> Where do I stop? I mean, I could say I know HTML, CSS, XML, XSLT, 
>>> LaTeX, PostScript, AmigaGuide... where do you draw the line?
>>
>> Yep. Put all that in. Anything you think an employer might need.
> 
> Ooo, AmigaGuide, an obsolete markup language that predates HTML 1.0 by 
> several years. They *really* need to know about that! :-P

It shows your breadth of knowledge. If you have the room, put it in. If 
you don't, of course leave it out.

>>> Sure. But it's hard to disguise something that's actually true.
>> No doubt. But important nonetheless. :-)
> Oh sure, I'm not doubting it's importance, I'm just saying it's really 
> hard. :-(

Yep. So you need to work at it. :)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> It's pretty close. You have to drive down winding country roads and 
> through several villages with low speed limits, but the actual distance 
> isn't that far.

I'd say go interview even if you *don't* want the job. That's the best 
kind of interview. It lets you think about your interview strategies 
without the stress of actually wanting the job and being afraid to mess 
up. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> LOL! I suppose I could explain that it's a Turing-complete scene 
>> description language for photorealistic image and animation 
>> construction / scripting... that could sound impressive. ;-)
> 
> Actually, I only found out about POV when I was applying for a job that 
> mentioned it.  I forget the name of the company, but they did realtime 
> and pre-rendered work for car companies etc.  Of course I looked up 
> everything that was mentioned on the job advert, and well here I am :-)

Definitely mention POV. Almost everyone I've spoken to in graphics & 
programming has heard of it.

Mentioning POV on my CV was one of the things that got me my current job.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>>>> No, how on Earth do you imagine that they could find out your salary?
>>> They call my employer and ask them? It's not rocket science.
>> There is no way your employer would give out such information to 
>> anyone outside the company.  Even to internal employees they would 
>> never give out such information, unless authorised to do so by someone 
>> quite senior.
> Well, it depends on how badly they don't want me to leave, doesn't it?

Not really, giving out confidential information on employees to anyone 
who phones up and asks for it is almost certainly illegal.

Post a reply to this message

Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Not really, giving out confidential information on employees to anyone 
> who phones up and asks for it is almost certainly illegal.

It used to be someone could call up and say "John is looking for a job 
here and claims he makes $X. Is that about right?"  I think enough 
people got sued in the USA to make it not worth a company's risk to give 
out any sort of recommendation, review, etc anymore.  All my references 
are essentially personal references these days - people who I used to 
work for who have also moved on to new things.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>>>> This is again untrue. The scripts don't "correct" anything,
>>> You never wrote a script that fixed something?
>> Nope.
> 
> So, the script that checks the CDs, or that does the pings... what did 
> you do with the output of those?  Toss it away after looking at it, 
> going "Hmmm, interesting."   Or did you (for example) give the ping 
> report to the ISP to get them to diagnose the problem from their end?

The ping data I tossed away. What I really *should* do at some point is 
set it up to run constantly in the background, so it will generate 
enough data for me to draw some kind of useful conclusion. (E.g., do the 
repeated email outages I'm seeing correlate with a loss of Internet 
connectivity, or just VPN connectivity? Or is it just the email server 
itself? Obviously it never actually fails when I'm testing out my script!)

>>> Suggestion: don't put on your resume that there are a whole bunch of 
>>> other more-experienced people available, either. They know that too. :-)
>>
>> Right, so... why are they going to hire me again??
> 
> Because you're there, and the experienced people are happy where they 
> are? :)

Hmm. This requires several assumptions about the concentration of people 
having the necessary skills verses the multiplicity (and churn factor) 
of suitable positions of employment...

http://xkcd.com/309/

>> Ooo, AmigaGuide, an obsolete markup language that predates HTML 1.0 by 
>> several years. They *really* need to know about that! :-P
> 
> It shows your breadth of knowledge. If you have the room, put it in. If 
> you don't, of course leave it out.

So you think I should just put together the biggest god-damned list 
possible? Just to show off what an uber-nerd I am?

Won't that look like I just did a Google search and wrote down anything 
that looks technical?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 18-Nov-08 11:32, Invisible wrote:
> For the last few days, backup jobs have been failing, and I don't know 
> why. I just spent the morning poking around to try to find out why.
> 
> Hey, guess what? Several of the backup settings have magically changed 
> themselves to something completely different values.
> 
> I wonder, who could have done that? Perhaps it was the fairies? Yes, 
> that must be it. It was changed by faries.
> 
> I'm completely sure that none of this has anything at all to do with the 
> new global backup procedure document that comes into effect on the 1st 
> of December. (Notice today's date: 18 *November*. Hence, our current 
> procedure document is still in force and must be followed to the letter.)
> 
> Obviously I have no proof of who changed those settings. But I have a 
> pretty good idea.
> 
> I'm really angry right now. I've spent all this time doing workarounds 
> to try to get the backups to work and writing all these extra log 
> entries to record my actions, and the cause of the problem all along was 
> some twat in America who ****ed around with MY backup settings without 
> bothering to tell me! >:-[

We told you before that if such things happen and you don't know for 
sure who did it, you *have to* report the incident as if it is someone 
hacking your computers. You also have to report to your boss that there 
is a legal problem because you are not able to create the backups as 
specified in the documents.

Though I have the feeling that you did not do that last times and you 
won't do it now.

> I utterly fail to see how I can be held legally responsible for this 
> stuff when I apparently have no control over it. How can I face a jail 
> sentence for somebody else's actions? 

Because it is your job to notice and take action to prevent it 
happening. In your case the course of action is to restore the original 
settings and block remote access to the settings. If you can't do it in 
software you have to disable the network physically. A sort of workable 
solution that might just not interfere with standard working procedures 
is to announce to the company that your local facility will be off-line 
  sunday afternoon to create the legally required backups.

I'm sorry, but if you only complain here but take no action that makes 
you responsible. In your position you have to pass that on as fast as 
possible to your boss.

> In what universe is that fair??

Who is talking about fair?

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> So you think I should just put together the biggest god-damned list 
> possible? Just to show off what an uber-nerd I am?

Don't be silly.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

All this reminded me of an "amusing" resignation letter I saw on qdb...

*searches*

Can't find it, but this one is relevant too :P

<+GaidinBDJ> What format should a resignation letter be if the letter is
neither required nor expected?
<smadge1> SMS

*searches more*

Ah! bash.org, not qdb.us. Here you go:

http://www.bash.org/?719376

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote in message 
news:web.49258c122a1d5b9565d3b2410@news.povray.org...
> "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>>  Damn, I'd beat their door down for that job.
>>
>>    ~Steve~
>
> Yeah! But with a salary of 30,000 - 35,000 there will be 4000 people 
> applying
> for the job.


  No, wrong. There will be 8,000 people applying for the job in todays 
present climate.  ;)

  But, our young mascot should be in the shortlist because I have faith in 
him and I need that tenner that he promised me.

   ~Steve~




> Stephen
>

Post a reply to this message

> And it's always a *terrible* idea to accept that. Because then they'll be 
> looking for a replacement for you, knowing you are looking to leave.
> You get booted out on their schedule, not yours.

Don't know about the USA, but they certainly can't do that to you here. 
There's no way they can "boot you out" without really solid reasoning as to 
why you are not suitable for the job, it just never happens here unless 
someone has done something really bad.  If they boot you out and then employ 
someone else to do your job the company will be in BIG trouble.

The usual tactic to get rid of someone is to put them into a boring job and 
don't give them any pay rises ... oh wait hang on a minute ;-)

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> http://www.bash.org/?719376

It is *not* wise to **** off your sysadmin. >:-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> 
> http://www.bash.org/?719376
> 

XD The BOFH resigns.. :) Love it!

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:

>   But, our young mascot should be in the shortlist because I have faith in 
> him and I need that tenner that he promised me.

If the mascot were to *really* strut his stuff, he could get a cush job 
for sure!

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

"Mike Raiford" <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:4926c42a@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
>>   But, our young mascot should be in the shortlist because I have faith 
>> in him and I need that tenner that he promised me.
>
> If the mascot were to *really* strut his stuff, he could get a cush job 
> for sure!

    Heh, yes, *we* know that, but he doesn't... (yet).  ;)

    ~Steve~


>
> -- 
> ~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> St. wrote:
>
> >   But, our young mascot should be in the shortlist because I have faith in
> > him and I need that tenner that he promised me.
>
> If the mascot were to *really* strut his stuff, he could get a cush job
> for sure!
>

I bet Steve still wouldn’t get his tenner :)

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

> I bet Steve still wouldn't get his tenner :)

Maybe just a beer.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:4926c8c9$1@news.povray.org...
>> I bet Steve still wouldn't get his tenner :)
>
> Maybe just a beer.
>

 A beer would be nice! :)

   ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message
> news:4926c8c9$1@news.povray.org...
> >> I bet Steve still wouldn't get his tenner :)
> >
> > Maybe just a beer.
> >
>
>  A beer would be nice! :)
>
>    ~Steve~

Just wait ‘til Wednesday :slurp:

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote in message 
news:web.4926ca212a1d5b9565d3b2410@news.povray.org...
> "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>> "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message
>> news:4926c8c9$1@news.povray.org...
>> >> I bet Steve still wouldn't get his tenner :)
>> >
>> > Maybe just a beer.
>> >
>>
>>  A beer would be nice! :)
>>
>>    ~Steve~
>
> Just wait 'til Wednesday :slurp:

 LOL, yeah, but more than one :slurp: is needed...   :)

  ~Steve~


>
> Stephen
>

Post a reply to this message

"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:web.4926ca212a1d5b9565d3b2410@news.povray.org...
> > "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> >> "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message
> >> news:4926c8c9$1@news.povray.org...
> >> >> I bet Steve still wouldn't get his tenner :)
> >> >
> >> > Maybe just a beer.
> >> >
> >>
> >>  A beer would be nice! :)
> >>
> >>    ~Steve~
> >
> > Just wait 'til Wednesday :slurp:
>
>  LOL, yeah, but more than one :slurp: is needed...   :)
>


Indeed! A tenners worth

Post a reply to this message

>> If the mascot were to *really* strut his stuff, he could get a cush job 
>> for sure!
> 
>     Heh, yes, *we* know that, but he doesn't... (yet).  ;)

Ooo... am I also sexually attractive without realising it as well?? :-D








...wait, I just realised how that sounds... DAMNIT! >_<

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote in message 
news:web.4926d0982a1d5b9565d3b2410@news.povray.org...
> "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> wrote in message
>> news:web.4926ca212a1d5b9565d3b2410@news.povray.org...
>> > "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>> >> "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message
>> >> news:4926c8c9$1@news.povray.org...
>> >> >> I bet Steve still wouldn't get his tenner :)
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe just a beer.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>  A beer would be nice! :)
>> >>
>> >>    ~Steve~
>> >
>> > Just wait 'til Wednesday :slurp:
>>
>>  LOL, yeah, but more than one :slurp: is needed...   :)
>>
>
>
> Indeed! A tenners worth

  HAHAHA, definately! :)

   ~Steve~



>

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:

> I bet Steve still wouldn’t get his tenner :)

O RLY?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> 
> Ooo... am I also sexually attractive without realising it as well?? :-D
> 

Dunno ... ask someone who prefers your gender ...

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

>> Ooo... am I also sexually attractive without realising it as well?? :-D
> 
> Dunno ... ask someone who prefers your gender ...

Benny complained the other day that he was forced to hang out with 
somebody *so boring* that he almost wanted to slit his wrists.

And all the while I'm thinking "hey, uh, Benny... you know who you're 
hanging out with right now??"

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> Don't know about the USA, but they certainly can't do that to you here. 

That sounds like awful conditions to hire someone under. I can't imagine 
how anyone gets a skilled job there.

I mean, it's like that for government jobs here, and *everybody* 
complains about how government workers are, for the most part, 
completely useless and overpaid. Ask anyone with at DMV is like (DMV = 
Dept of Motor Vehicles, who issue driving licenses, auto registration 
renewals, etc).

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

On 20-Nov-08 10:36, Invisible wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> 
>> Add POV-Ray?
> 
> LOL! I suppose I could explain that it's a Turing-complete scene 
> description language for photorealistic image and animation construction 
> / scripting... that could sound impressive. ;-)

If you apply for a job as a sysop in a shoefactory, it would be 
completely useless to mention. OTOH if it is in a group with a lot of 
creative people around like in IT-firms and universities anything that 
shows that you are special in any way would be a bonus point. In fact 
many things that would make me decide to hire you in stead of yet 
another freshly graduated student are not in your CV. Nor would you 
mention them in a job interview, because you don't think it is important.

Post a reply to this message

>> LOL! I suppose I could explain that it's a Turing-complete scene 
>> description language for photorealistic image and animation 
>> construction / scripting... that could sound impressive. ;-)
> 
> If you apply for a job as a sysop in a shoefactory, it would be 
> completely useless to mention. OTOH if it is in a group with a lot of 
> creative people around like in IT-firms and universities anything that 
> shows that you are special in any way would be a bonus point.

Agreed.

I guess it depends on whether I think I can actually *find* one of the 
"interesting jobs" which are rumoured to exist somewhere...

> In fact 
> many things that would make me decide to hire you in stead of yet 
> another freshly graduated student are not in your CV. Nor would you 
> mention them in a job interview, because you don't think it is important.

Have you seen my updated CV?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:57:47 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> There are no guarantees in life - that's the way it is.  But like I've
>> said before, Andy, DON'T decide for a prospective employer what you're
>> worth - THAT'S THEIR JOB, NOT YOURS.
> 
> ...unless they say "so how much are you expecting us to pay you?" ;-)

The first rule of salary negotiation is to not answer that question, but 
to ask "what are you offering?"

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:54:52 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>> No, how on Earth do you imagine that they could find out your salary?
> 
> They call my employer and ask them? It's not rocket science.

It's also probably not legal for your current employer to disclose that 
information.  Here in the US, salary information is between you and your 
employer - with a few notable exceptions (executive compensation in 
publicly held companies, government jobs, etc).

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 21-Nov-08 18:36, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> LOL! I suppose I could explain that it's a Turing-complete scene 
>>> description language for photorealistic image and animation 
>>> construction / scripting... that could sound impressive. ;-)
>>
>> If you apply for a job as a sysop in a shoefactory, it would be 
>> completely useless to mention. OTOH if it is in a group with a lot of 
>> creative people around like in IT-firms and universities anything that 
>> shows that you are special in any way would be a bonus point.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> I guess it depends on whether I think I can actually *find* one of the 
> "interesting jobs" which are rumoured to exist somewhere...

And you don't turn them down because they are not in your neighbourhood 
or because the companies name starts with 'C' or whatever reason you'll 
find not to apply.

>> In fact many things that would make me decide to hire you in stead of 
>> yet another freshly graduated student are not in your CV. Nor would 
>> you mention them in a job interview, because you don't think it is 
>> important.
> 
> Have you seen my updated CV?
> 
not yet. I am missing some posts as I was away a few days, so the amount 
is so large that I skipped a few.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> Here in the US, salary information is between you and your 
> employer

Really?  I'm not sure that's correct.  Certainly if you're looking to 
(for example) sell a small company, the buyer is going to want to know 
the salaries of the people he'll be taking on, yes?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:15:38 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Here in the US, salary information is between you and your employer
> 
> Really?  I'm not sure that's correct.  Certainly if you're looking to
> (for example) sell a small company, the buyer is going to want to know
> the salaries of the people he'll be taking on, yes?

Perhaps in M/A land there are exceptions - or they know how many people 
they are and the aggregate salaries/payroll budget, but in M/As (as is my 
understanding) there are very specific times at which particular types of 
information can be disclosed.

The laws may also vary depending on where the companies are incorporated 
- if both are incorporated in the same state, then it may be down to 
state laws rather than federal laws.

Of course, IANAL, so I could be completely wrong on this - but I'm pretty 
sure there's a confidentiality clause about salary information.  Most 
companies strongly discourage employees from even talking about their 
salaries with their peers.

But my point is that I don't believe company A could call up the HR 
department at company B and say "John Doe has told us his salary is 
$74,000 a year - can you confirm this?" - for one thing, that could open 
John up to some sort of retribution from his current employer for looking 
for a new job - most US states are "at will", which means your employer 
can pretty much let you go for any reason - and even for no reason.  
Utah's like that - the worker protections in the US (if you're not in a 
union) are practically nonexistent unless you can prove racial/age/some 
other form of legally recognised discrimination.

Jim

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> companies strongly discourage employees from even talking about their 
> salaries with their peers.

Yeah, but that's not for the good of the employees. :-)

> But my point is that I don't believe company A could call up the HR 
> department at company B and say "John Doe has told us his salary is 
> $74,000 a year - can you confirm this?"

Used to be OK. I answered a number of calls like this in my first job. I 
wouldn't be surprised if laws passed since then, not the least of which 
were due to ...

> - for one thing, that could open John up to some sort of retribution from his
current employer for looking 
> for a new job 

Sure, and retribution against the employer for giving a bad 
recommendation or lying about the salary, which is more what I think 
caused the changes.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:43:36 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> companies strongly discourage employees from even talking about their
>> salaries with their peers.
> 
> Yeah, but that's not for the good of the employees. :-)

True enough.

>> But my point is that I don't believe company A could call up the HR
>> department at company B and say "John Doe has told us his salary is
>> $74,000 a year - can you confirm this?"
> 
> Used to be OK. I answered a number of calls like this in my first job. I
> wouldn't be surprised if laws passed since then, not the least of which
> were due to ...

Interesting, maybe a CA thing?  I know things tend to be a bit more 
progressive there, especially compared to deep red McCain-land here in 
Utah.

>> - for one thing, that could open John up to some sort of retribution
>> from his current employer for looking for a new job
> 
> Sure, and retribution against the employer for giving a bad
> recommendation or lying about the salary, which is more what I think
> caused the changes.

I know where I'm work they have a policy specifically prohibiting 
professional job references.  I've provided a few personal references for 
long-time friends (and past coworkers), but it's a difficult line to walk 
sometimes because my personal and professional lives overlap so much.

Jim

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Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Here in the US, salary information is between you and your employer
> 
> Really?  I'm not sure that's correct.  Certainly if you're looking to
> (for example) sell a small company, the buyer is going to want to know
> the salaries of the people he'll be taking on, yes?
> 

In such case it could be possible to reveal totals (eg. 10 employees
making 450k$ expenses total) - it's still not necessary to reveal salary
of individual worker.

-Aero

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Interesting, maybe a CA thing? 

This was in the 70s on the east coast.

> I know where I'm work they have a policy specifically prohibiting 
> professional job references.  

I'm sure. I'm just not certain it's a law, rather than a CYA policy.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:48:23 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Interesting, maybe a CA thing?
> 
> This was in the 70s on the east coast.

Could be a sign of the times, too.

>> I know where I'm work they have a policy specifically prohibiting
>> professional job references.
> 
> I'm sure. I'm just not certain it's a law, rather than a CYA policy.

Could be either, would have to check and see....maybe my HR department 
could tell me. ;-)

Jim

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On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:24:40 +0000, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>
>> I bet Steve still wouldn’t get his tenner :)
>
>O RLY?

Well have you applied for it?
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:24:40 +0000, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> 
>> Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> I bet Steve still wouldn’t get his tenner :)
>> O RLY?
> 
> Well have you applied for it?

Still improving my CV, remember?

Anyway, *if* I actually got the job, what makes you think I couldn't 
afford to hand over £10? :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:58:10 +0000, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>Still improving my CV, remember?

Don't take too long.

>Anyway, *if* I actually got the job, what makes you think I couldn't 
>afford to hand over £10? :-P

Where did I say afford? :P

Anyway have a nice few days off. 

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4926d654$1@news.povray.org...
>>> Ooo... am I also sexually attractive without realising it as well?? :-D
>>
>> Dunno ... ask someone who prefers your gender ...
>
> Benny complained the other day that he was forced to hang out with 
> somebody *so boring* that he almost wanted to slit his wrists.

    Nobody is 'forced' to do anything... ;)


>
> And all the while I'm thinking "hey, uh, Benny... you know who you're 
> hanging out with right now??"

    ... And Benny said: "No, who?"

       ~Steve~



>
> -- 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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