In case you guys are getting bored of Widor's Toccata, here's one of Bach's:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbgr8heLCM

Comments welcomed. (Yes, I *know* it's complete!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> In case you guys are getting bored of Widor's Toccata, here's one of 
> Bach's:
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbgr8heLCM
> 
> Comments welcomed. (Yes, I *know* it's complete!)

I'm still to see the other.  You play pretty nicely.  Next, try the 
Busoni edition. ;)

BTW, some scholars believe this is not genuine Bach, that he adapted 
some toccata for violin from someone else.  It's still wonderful.

You know, I'm really shy to play the piano to others, not that I play as 
good as you do anyway... :P

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nemesis wrote:

> I'm still to see the other.  You play pretty nicely.  Next, try the 
> Busoni edition. ;)

...?

> BTW, some scholars believe this is not genuine Bach, that he adapted 
> some toccata for violin from someone else.  It's still wonderful.

Yeah, so I keep hearing. All I know is whoever wrote this thing was 
*insane*. (And possibly a genius as well...)

By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. It 
seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?

> You know, I'm really shy to play the piano to others, not that I play as 
> good as you do anyway... :P

I can play really well, UNLESS I HAVE AN AUDIENCE! o_O

You think playing the piano is bad! Try walking into a large, deserted 
stone building and playing an instrument so loud that people a few 
blocks away can hear it when you miss a note! ._.

Nervous? Hell yeah!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. It 
> seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?

You should read Godel, Escher, Bach. The whole Bach part is about how 
his music is all self-referential like Escher and Godel's stuff is.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>
> > I'm still to see the other.  You play pretty nicely.  Next, try the
> > Busoni edition. ;)
>
> ...?

It was an adaptation for the piano by the late 19th.  It's way harder. ;)

> By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. It
> seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?

Yes, basically.  Bach excelled at fugues.  He was the most mathematician of all
musicians. :D

> I can play really well, UNLESS I HAVE AN AUDIENCE! o_O

Wow!  And you tell you're shy! O_o

> You think playing the piano is bad! Try walking into a large, deserted
> stone building and playing an instrument so loud that people a few
> blocks away can hear it when you miss a note! ._.
>
> Nervous? Hell yeah!

I can't imagine how you withstand it!

When all I had was an acoustic piano, I tried by all means to play pianissimo so
that other people wouldn't listen to my errors. :P

Now I have a digital piano.  Ah, earphones... :)

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Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. 
>> It seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?
> 
> You should read Godel, Escher, Bach. The whole Bach part is about how 
> his music is all self-referential like Escher and Godel's stuff is.

One of the examples in the book is Bach's "Crab Canon", which you can 
turn upside down and play and get the same song.  Just as an example.

And, apropos of not much, this was pretty cool:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VdJU7scps

But the Bach sounds pretty good for someone who does it for fun. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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>>> I'm still to see the other.  You play pretty nicely.  Next, try the
>>> Busoni edition. ;)
>> ...?
> 
> It was an adaptation for the piano by the late 19th.  It's way harder. ;)

It seems the score I have is a simplified version as it is...

>> By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. It
>> seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?
> 
> Yes, basically.  Bach excelled at fugues.  He was the most mathematician of all
> musicians. :D

Counterpoint, MUCH??

>> I can play really well, UNLESS I HAVE AN AUDIENCE! o_O
> 
> Wow!  And you tell you're shy! O_o

That's what I'm saying. Having an audience makes me all shy and 
self-concious and I start making dumb mistakes and stuff...

> I can't imagine how you withstand it!

Knowing the camera is rolling makes you kind of try to keep going no 
matter what... Hey, the 3 clips I've posted online are cut from a reel 
of about 15 seperate takes! o_O

> When all I had was an acoustic piano, I tried by all means to play pianissimo so
> that other people wouldn't listen to my errors. :P
> 
> Now I have a digital piano.  Ah, earphones... :)

It 0wns, doesn't it? :-D

(I have Kontakt...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. 
>> It seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?
> 
> You should read Godel, Escher, Bach. The whole Bach part is about how 
> his music is all self-referential like Escher and Godel's stuff is.

...Godel is self-referential?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> And, apropos of not much, this was pretty cool:
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VdJU7scps
>
> But the Bach sounds pretty good for someone who does it for fun. :-)

I don't think that's Bach. :P

But anyway, drums&bass seem to be the only way of getting people to listen to a
violin today.  This and "Girl with electronic violin" with violin sounding like
a guitar... :P

Along these lines:
http://meiobit.pop.com.br/meio-bit/destaque/futurecom-bachianas

Click on the video of the article.

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> It seems the score I have is a simplified version as it is...

Hmm, it sounds quite like the original to me.

> Counterpoint, MUCH??

Yes, very much! :)

> >> I can play really well, UNLESS I HAVE AN AUDIENCE! o_O
> >
> > Wow!  And you tell you're shy! O_o
>
> That's what I'm saying. Having an audience makes me all shy and
> self-concious and I start making dumb mistakes and stuff...

Oh, sorry!  I got it wrong. :P

Then, it is the same as me. :P

Having a passion for organs doesn't help... ^_^

> Knowing the camera is rolling makes you kind of try to keep going no
> matter what... Hey, the 3 clips I've posted online are cut from a reel
> of about 15 seperate takes! o_O

Aha!

> It 0wns, doesn't it? :-D

Yes!  Another story, completely...

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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> And, apropos of not much, this was pretty cool:
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VdJU7scps
>>
>> But the Bach sounds pretty good for someone who does it for fun. :-)
> 
> I don't think that's Bach. :P

Andrew's Bach sounds pretty good for someone who does it for fun. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> By the way, I looked up "fugue" on Wikipedia. It's quite interesting. 
>>> It seems a fugue is basically a musical fractal. How neat is that?
>>
>> You should read Godel, Escher, Bach. The whole Bach part is about how 
>> his music is all self-referential like Escher and Godel's stuff is.
> 
> ....Godel is self-referential?

Rather famed for it. His proof, at least.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Andrew's Bach sounds pretty good for someone who does it for fun. :-)

  It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:

>   It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...

And then it's all fun and games, but with a cyclops! :-D

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> ....Godel is self-referential?
> 
> Rather famed for it. His proof, at least.

Oh, right.

I haven't seen it. All I know is that he's the guy who famously proved 
that mathematics is actually hopeless and we should all give up now. 
(But you have to admire the way everybody has ignored this and carried 
on anyway.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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nemesis wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> It seems the score I have is a simplified version as it is...
> 
> Hmm, it sounds quite like the original to me.

I had a look here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o

There seem to be more harmonies to it than what's on my sheet.

>> Counterpoint, MUCH??
> 
> Yes, very much! :)

Counterpoint and harmony is something I have never been able to master. 
This saddens me greatly.

But then, in general, I'm very good at copying other people's work, and 
hopeless at composing my own. (I can never decide what notes would sound 
interesting together...)

>> That's what I'm saying. Having an audience makes me all shy and
>> self-concious and I start making dumb mistakes and stuff...
> 
> Having a passion for organs doesn't help... ^_^

Well... no... ;-)

And Widor's Toccata *opens with* triple forte. It's a loud, bold, joyous 
piece of music. It cannot be played quietly. ;-)

>> Knowing the camera is rolling makes you kind of try to keep going no
>> matter what... Hey, the 3 clips I've posted online are cut from a reel
>> of about 15 seperate takes! o_O
> 
> Aha!

Hmm, yes, it is true...

OTOH, my mum could spent 4 weeks making endless recordings and never 
produce a single one that compares to what I have on film, so I won't 
feel too bad about having to take a couple of tries at it. 0;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Counterpoint and harmony is something I have never been able to master. 
> This saddens me greatly.

You know who I really admire? Those people who program music boxes.

I mean, each note of a music box is just a tooth on a comb being 
plucked. It sounds dull and uninteresting. To compensate, the designers 
pin elaborate and complex harmonies and rhythems into the pinwheel... 
Certainly I could never write anything nearly as impressive. :-(

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> ....Godel is self-referential?
>>
>> Rather famed for it. His proof, at least.
> 
> Oh, right.
> 
> I haven't seen it.

It's basically of writing "this theorem cannot be proven." If it's true, 
you can't prove it. If it's false, you've proven something false.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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nemesis wrote:

> But anyway, drums&bass seem to be the only way of getting people to listen to a
> violin today.  This and "Girl with electronic violin" with violin sounding like
> a guitar... :P

Personally, I happen to like many different styles of music.

I really liked the theme music to Pirates of the Carribean. But I also 
really liked the techno remix I found on YouTube. I thought it was 
really clever how somebody could take a piece of music in one style and 
play it in a completely different style, yet have it still immediately 
obvious that it's still the same piece. I like *both* performances, for 
different reasons.

Similarly, a few years back I found a rock performance of [the simple 
parts from] Bach's Toccata & Fugue. (Actually just the toccata, really. 
And only the bits you can easily play on an electric guitar with a 
drummer and some backing.) It's much simpler than what Bach wrote, but 
it's still quite entertaining.

And then the other day I heard a bunch of hill billies playing 80s rock. 
THAT was funny! :-D But in a weird way, it kinda works...

(In a similar theme, the heavy metal version of Mrs Robinson.)

So getting people to listen to a particular style or a particular 
instrument is... meh. People will listen to whatever people want to 
listen to. The point is that *I* know what *I* like to listen to. (And I 
don't care if anybody else likes it!)

OTOH, my car stereo refuses to play The Beach Boys for some reason... 
Maybe it's trying to tell me something?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>> ....Godel is self-referential?
>>>
>>> Rather famed for it. His proof, at least.
>>
>> Oh, right.
>>
>> I haven't seen it.
> 
> It's basically of writing "this theorem cannot be proven." If it's true, 
> you can't prove it. If it's false, you've proven something false.

So... it's the liar paradox?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> So... it's the liar paradox?

In essence.

Really, I can't think of someone who is more likely to enjoy Godel 
Escher Bach than you are.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> So... it's the liar paradox?
> 
> In essence.
> 
> Really, I can't think of someone who is more likely to enjoy Godel 
> Escher Bach than you are.

OK. Thanks to p.o-t I now have *two* items on my Christmas list... ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o
>
> There seem to be more harmonies to it than what's on my sheet.

Hmm, perhaps some of them are for those pedals.  Organ is amazing, the guy has
to play with both hands and feet! :D

BTW, do you know what software is used to produce those graphics?  It's very
interesting to see the structure of music in time this way, something
traditional musical notation can't convey quite well...

> Counterpoint and harmony is something I have never been able to master.
> This saddens me greatly.

Hardly anyone gets it right.  But then, I just play the piano works, I have no
ambition nor talent of surpassing the old folks... if it's possible anyway.

> And Widor's Toccata *opens with* triple forte. It's a loud, bold, joyous
> piece of music. It cannot be played quietly. ;-)

I listened to it.  Truly magnificent.

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Sheet music:
http://www.mutopiaproject.org/

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Sheet music:
> http://www.mutopiaproject.org/

That's good, but the scores are created from scratch and some of them seem to
miss many musical figures like tr and pianissimo, staccato etc.

Here's the best I know of:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page

The International Music Score Library Project scans old quality musical scores
to PDF.  They have editions revised by Brahms, Busoni and such folk.  Truly
excellent.

There's also:
http://choralwiki.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

For those who love chorals.  Many Bach cantatas are available.

Whew, I think all this music chatting may be upsetting Warp... :P

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nemesis wrote:
> BTW, do you know what software is used to produce those graphics? 

The guy who makes the videos wrote the software himself afaik.

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> BTW, do you know what software is used to produce those graphics?
> 
> The guy who makes the videos wrote the software himself afaik.

Here you go:
http://www.musanim.com/player/

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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> > nemesis wrote:
> >> BTW, do you know what software is used to produce those graphics?
> >
> > The guy who makes the videos wrote the software himself afaik.
>
> Here you go:
> http://www.musanim.com/player/

Very nice!  Thanks, Sherlock! :)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> So... it's the liar paradox?
>>
>> In essence.
>>
>> Really, I can't think of someone who is more likely to enjoy Godel 
>> Escher Bach than you are.
> 
> OK. Thanks to p.o-t I now have *two* items on my Christmas list... ;-)

...so now I own Godel, Escher, Bach. :-)

All I have to go now is read it...

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