In the interests of public service, I'd like to point out the following 
small details:

1. It is in fact possible to take corners without actually coming to a 
complete stop. This applies even if you're driving a Rover. You do not 
need to actually stop in the middle of the road when you want to turn 
off it; you can still keep moving as you take the corner. You don't even 
need to slow down to less than walking pace. Really, it's fine. Try it.

2. The pretty flashing orange lights on the sides of your car are not 
just for decoration. They are actually there for a specific reason. Go 
learn about them.

3. Some people seem to believe that green means "go slowly" and red 
means "go quickly". This is not in fact the case. Actually green means 
"go", and any colour that is not green means "stop". Not "stop if you 
feel like it" or "stop if it's convinient to your day", but "stop". As 
in "STOP RIGHT FRIGGIN' NOW YOU MORON!".

4. You see those stripy white lines on the road? Those demark the edges 
of things we call "lanes". Your car should be in one of those lanes. 
Pick which lane you want to be in, and stay in it. Don't just wander all 
over the road at random. I realise that's the easiest thing to do, but 
you need to make an effort to not do this.

5. Try to look where you're going. It is not, in fact, everybody else's 
responsibility to get out of your way. Actually it is *you're* 
responsibility to look where you're going.

6. Parking on a junction is illegal. Don't.

7. If there is no more space on your drive, park in the nearest layby. 
Yes, I realise this means you have to walk 24 feet further than you 
would if you just park in the middle of the road, but trust me, the 
excercise will do you good.

Post a reply to this message

> 2. The pretty flashing orange lights on the sides of your car are not just 
> for decoration. They are actually there for a specific reason. Go learn 
> about them.

I usually inform them that their indicators are broken first...

> 3. Some people seem to believe that green means "go slowly" and red means 
> "go quickly". This is not in fact the case. Actually green means "go", and 
> any colour that is not green means "stop". Not "stop if you feel like it" 
> or "stop if it's convinient to your day", but "stop". As in "STOP RIGHT 
> FRIGGIN' NOW YOU MORON!".

Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"? ie no need to do an 
emergency stop if there is someone behind you.

> 7. If there is no more space on your drive, park in the nearest layby. 
> Yes, I realise this means you have to walk 24 feet further than you would 
> if you just park in the middle of the road, but trust me, the excercise 
> will do you good.

Parking on the road should just be banned full stop.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> 2. The pretty flashing orange lights on the sides of your car are not 
>> just for decoration. They are actually there for a specific reason. Go 
>> learn about them.
> 
> I usually inform them that their indicators are broken first...

My favourite are the people who turn the corner, and then give just one 
flash of their indicators *after* completing the turn. WTF?

Actually no, my *favourite* are the cars where the indicator's don't 
illuminate at all, and instead the reversing lights flash, and the brake 
lights go dim each time it happens! :-D I can't begin to imagine what 
kind of insane wiring fault causes that...

>> 3. Some people seem to believe that green means "go slowly" and red 
>> means "go quickly". This is not in fact the case. Actually green means 
>> "go", and any colour that is not green means "stop". Not "stop if you 
>> feel like it" or "stop if it's convinient to your day", but "stop". As 
>> in "STOP RIGHT FRIGGIN' NOW YOU MORON!".
> 
> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"? ie no need to do an 
> emergency stop if there is someone behind you.

Sure. But some people seem to take amber as "speed up now", and red as 
"floor it!"

>> 7. If there is no more space on your drive, park in the nearest layby. 
>> Yes, I realise this means you have to walk 24 feet further than you 
>> would if you just park in the middle of the road, but trust me, the 
>> excercise will do you good.
> 
> Parking on the road should just be banned full stop.

Well, there are places with specially marked bays where the road is wide 
enough that you can park there without completely disabling that part of 
the road network.

But seriously, every day when we get home, by dad has to drive round 
this green car parked on the corner, partially obstructing my dad's 
drive entrance. There is an empty layby on the other side of the drive 
entrance. I repeat: there is an empty layby just *7 feet* away from 
where this car is parked. There is a second empty layby 16 feet the 
other way, on the opposite side of the road. But no, he has to park just 
there, partially blocking both the entrance to my dad's drive, and most 
of the pedestrian pavement. And on a corner as well.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:49198b5c$1@news.povray.org...

> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"?

   I thought it meant 'Go' if it's safe to do so?

      ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"?
>
>   I thought it meant 'Go' if it's safe to do so?

That's what green means.

IME though, amber usually means "speed up to make sure you can cross the 
line before it goes red" :-)

Post a reply to this message

Yesterday you made a thread complaining about grammar mis-uses.

Invisible wrote:
> you need to make an effort to not do this.

Split infinitive. "an effort not to do this".

> responsibility to get out of your way. Actually it is *you're*

*your*!

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Yesterday you made a thread complaining about grammar mis-uses.
> 
> Invisible wrote:
>> you need to make an effort to not do this.
> 
> Split infinitive. "an effort not to do this".

Uh-huh. And what exactly *is* an "infinitive" anyway?

>> responsibility to get out of your way. Actually it is *you're*
> 
> *your*!

Now THAT is actually wrong... Hey, we can't all be perfect all the time. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
> > you need to make an effort to not do this.

> Split infinitive. "an effort not to do this".

http://www.grammarphobia.com/grammar.html

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:49199a4d$1@news.povray.org...
>>> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"?
>>
>>   I thought it meant 'Go' if it's safe to do so?
>
> That's what green means.

    Heh, well I know that. I was thinking of the flashing amber down to 
green, not the solid amber up to red.


> IME though, amber usually means "speed up to make sure you can cross the 
> line before it goes red" :-)

   LOL. Yeah, I see enough of them.

    ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> My favourite are the people who turn the corner, and then give just one 
> flash of their indicators *after* completing the turn. WTF?

Forget world peace. Visualize using your turn signals.

> Sure. But some people seem to take amber as "speed up now", and red as 
> "floor it!"

Not so much around here, because almost all the lights will respond to 
you being there, which is nice.

My peeves include "use the steering wheel to turn, and the brakes to 
slow down. When someone slows in front of you, it's OK for you to slow 
too, and you don't have to drive into the oncoming traffic to avoid 
doing so."

Plus, people, it's rush-hour, not Nascar. See those 3000 people in front 
of you? They too would all like to squeeze past on the shoulder.

And, if you're going more than 50MPH, there should be enough room 
between you and the person in front of you that someone could parallel 
park there.

> But seriously, every day when we get home, by dad has to drive round 
> this green car parked on the corner, partially obstructing my dad's 
> drive entrance. 

That's why you carry a valve stem remover with you.  Or, in the immortal 
words of Bob, "Ha ha, you're out of spare tires. You loose."

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:
> "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
> news:49199a4d$1@news.povray.org...
>>>> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"?
>>>   I thought it meant 'Go' if it's safe to do so?
>> That's what green means.
> 
>     Heh, well I know that. I was thinking of the flashing amber down to 
> green, not the solid amber up to red.
> 
> 

flashing amber down to green????
never heard of it

Post a reply to this message

Tom Austin wrote:
> flashing amber down to green????
> never heard of it

In some countries, they put green+yellow means it's about to go red, and 
red+yellow means it's about to go green. Sounds dangerous to me, 
doubly-so if it really means you are allowed to go thru on red+yellow.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:

>> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"?
> 
>    I thought it meant 'Go' if it's safe to do so?

It may of course depend on which *country* you're in. (Isn't the 
Internet wonderful?)

For example, in the UK, the light sequence is

   Green
   Amber
   Red

   Red + Amber
   Green

   etc.

But in France, the sequence appears to be

   Green
   Red

   Amber
   Green

As in, the lights are green, and they just suddenly go straight to red, 
with no amber stage in the middle. But when turning back, they go 
through amber first. Very odd... I'd imagine the driving rules are 
differnet too.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> In the interests of public service, I'd like to point out the following 
> small details:


My favorite is when your light turns green
which means that the other traffic must have been red for 3-4 seconds
yet cars are still continuing to go through the intersection trying to 
'beat' the red.


Another is when you are going to make a right turn and almost hit the 
guy that's been driving on the shoulder for 1/4 mile to make his right turn.


Tom

Post a reply to this message

Tom Austin wrote:

> My favorite is when your light turns green
> which means that the other traffic must have been red for 3-4 seconds
> yet cars are still continuing to go through the intersection trying to 
> 'beat' the red.

Yeah. Of course, the only thing they're likely to "beat" is the bodywork 
of their precious sports car when it smashes into another vehicle.

> Another is when you are going to make a right turn and almost hit the 
> guy that's been driving on the shoulder for 1/4 mile to make his right 
> turn.

I don't know about other countries, but here that kind of thing is 
illegal. (Not that this stops anybody...)

I don't know why, but people who drive expensive sports cars seem to 
have the mentality that it's their road and everybody else is required 
to get out of *their* way, and that the rules to not apply to them. As 
if the world is put there for their own personal convinience or 
something... grr!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>> > you need to make an effort to not do this.
> 
>> Split infinitive. "an effort not to do this".
> 
> http://www.grammarphobia.com/grammar.html

But with "not" it does sound bad.

Post a reply to this message

These all are on my pet driving peeves list. Oh, and:

Incorrect contraction use in #5. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:40:44 +0100, scott wrote:

> Doesn't amber mean "stop if it's safe to do so"? ie no need to do an
> emergency stop if there is someone behind you.

Red means "stop". Green means "go".  Yellow means "go faster".

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:21:00 -0200, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Warp wrote:
>> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>> Invisible wrote:
>>> > you need to make an effort to not do this.
>> 
>>> Split infinitive. "an effort not to do this".
>> 
>> http://www.grammarphobia.com/grammar.html
> 
> But with "not" it does sound bad.

Depends on your ear. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news: 
4919e492$1@news.povray.org...
>>
> But in France, the sequence appears to be
>
>   Green
>   Red
>
>   Amber
>   Green
>
O_o

Did you ever come in France?
If yes, were you drunk or mind-boggled by driving on the right side of the 
road (instead of the wrong one)?? :-)

The correct sequence is

Green
Amber
Red
Green

Marc

Post a reply to this message

> In some countries, they put green+yellow means it's about to go red,

We (UK and Germany and most other countries I've been to) have just solid 
amber to mean it's about to go red.  It's illegal to go through on red and 
you will be fined (or photographed then fined!), so the amber is needed to 
give people a chance to stop before it goes red.  Faster roads have longer 
amber phases to avoid you needing to do an emergency stop in fear of running 
a red.

> and red+yellow means it's about to go green. Sounds dangerous to me, 
> doubly-so if it really means you are allowed to go thru on red+yellow.

Technically you are not allowed to go through on red+amber, it means "ok 
green is going to come on in about 1 second so make sure you're in gear and 
ready to go".  Under normal circumstances if you just begin your "pull away" 
sequence when the red+amber comes on you'll cross the line as it turns 
green, so no problems.

Post a reply to this message

> My favorite is when your light turns green
> which means that the other traffic must have been red for 3-4 seconds
> yet cars are still continuing to go through the intersection trying to 
> 'beat' the red.

In the UK at least I see a lot of junctions where the instant one direction 
changes from amber to red, the other changes from red to red+amber.  If you 
have a 3-4 second delay where all directions are on red, then of course 
people are going to be tempted to carry on jumping the red for a few seconds 
after it's switched from green.

> Another is when you are going to make a right turn and almost hit the guy 
> that's been driving on the shoulder for 1/4 mile to make his right turn.

Hehe, I guess you don't need to look out for cyclists while making right 
turns there, here you just get into the habit of *always* looking to the 
right - alongside and behind you - before actually turning.

Post a reply to this message

> Actually no, my *favourite* are the cars where the indicator's don't
> illuminate at all, and instead the reversing lights flash, and the brake
> lights go dim each time it happens! :-D I can't begin to imagine what
> kind of insane wiring fault causes that...
Usually a missing ground connection somewhere in the rear light housing 
(broken, corroded and/or bent).

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> My peeves include "use the steering wheel to turn, and the brakes to 
> slow down. When someone slows in front of you, it's OK for you to slow 
> too, and you don't have to drive into the oncoming traffic to avoid 
> doing so."
> 
> Plus, people, it's rush-hour, not Nascar. See those 3000 people in front 
> of you? They too would all like to squeeze past on the shoulder.

Er, yes.

Ever driven along the A303 past Stonehenge? For some insane reason, the 
road designers thought it would be amusing to make the road alternate 
between single and dual carridgeway every 4 miles or so. Which means 
that every bank holiday, when the entire 60-mile length of that road is 
gridlocked by westbound holiday-makers, as soon as we get to a 
dual-carridgeway section, all the BMWs and Audis dive for the right 
lane, race 4 miles down the road, and then stop at nothing to squeeeeeze 
in front of that caravan...

PEOPLE! The entire road is moving at less than 2 meters per hour. How 
much difference can it possibly make whether you get in before or after 
the caravan?? But no, these morons drive across the crosshatchings, and 
sometimes even down the wrong side of the single-carridgeway in the path 
of angry oncomming traffic, just to get in front of one or two caravans.

I would go as far as to say that if there were no dual-carridgeway 
sections, there wouldn't be such a big traffic jam! (Or if they, you 
know, make the *whole* road dual carridgeway. The problem seems to be 
every time it goes back to single caridgeway, there's a 20-mile tailback 
because a few idiots want to push in.)

> And, if you're going more than 50MPH, there should be enough room 
> between you and the person in front of you that someone could parallel 
> park there.

Hint: Driving 4 cm from somebody's bumper is seriously unlikely to make 
them speed up. Nor is beeping your horn.

(Actually, I'm sometimes tempted to hit the brakes just to destroy their 
car and see the look on their faces when they have to pay to fix two 
cars... I suspect that might not look good in court though.)

>> But seriously, every day when we get home, by dad has to drive round 
>> this green car parked on the corner, partially obstructing my dad's 
>> drive entrance. 
> 
> That's why you carry a valve stem remover with you.  Or, in the immortal 
> words of Bob, "Ha ha, you're out of spare tires. You loose."

My dad tells me that when he wins the lottery, he's going to buy a 
Bigfood and accidentally destroy that car with it.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:

> Incorrect contraction use in #5. ;-)

What, you never make any mistakes? :-P

There's a difference between one occasional mistake, and people who 
write page after page of horribly incorrect garbage.

Post a reply to this message

> all the BMWs and Audis dive for the right lane, race 4 miles down the 
> road, and then stop at nothing to squeeeeeze in front of that caravan...
>
> PEOPLE! The entire road is moving at less than 2 meters per hour.

Ermm, if the entire road is only moving at 2 m/hr then how come the BMWs and 
Audis can "race" on the dual carriage way sections?  If the dual carriageway 
sections are clear, then why not drive at 70mph?

> How much difference can it possibly make whether you get in before or 
> after the caravan??

Quite a huge amount sometimes, because caravans tend to be driven a lot 
slower than normal vehicles.  If you get stuck behind one for a long stretch 
where they max out at 50mph and drop to 30mph going up hills, you can lose a 
huge amount of time compared to doing a constant 60mph.

> (Actually, I'm sometimes tempted to hit the brakes just to destroy their 
> car and see the look on their faces when they have to pay to fix two 
> cars... I suspect that might not look good in court though.)

Yeh, I heard that doesn't wash, claiming "the guy in front did a full 
emergency stop for no reason but to cause an accident" works quite well as a 
defence.  And even if they did get the blame, it's still a major hassle for 
you.  I tend to just slow down gradually, I mean there is an increased risk 
of an accident so you better slow down to compensate :-)

> My dad tells me that when he wins the lottery, he's going to buy a Bigfood 
> and accidentally destroy that car with it.

Just leave a friendly anonymous note on the windscreen, you never know.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> all the BMWs and Audis dive for the right lane, race 4 miles down the 
>> road, and then stop at nothing to squeeeeeze in front of that caravan...
>>
>> PEOPLE! The entire road is moving at less than 2 meters per hour.
> 
> Ermm, if the entire road is only moving at 2 m/hr then how come the BMWs 
> and Audis can "race" on the dual carriage way sections?  If the dual 
> carriageway sections are clear, then why not drive at 70mph?

This is what happens. As soon as the new lane appears, all the sports 
cars dive into it and rush past the left lane. The left lane speeds up 
to about 40 due to the cars leaving it. And then we all slow back down 
to more or less stationary as the lanes merge again, and the arrogant 
sports car drivers are DETERMINED to get in front of as many people as 
possible. Because, you know, it means a really big difference, doesn't it?

>> How much difference can it possibly make whether you get in before or 
>> after the caravan??
> 
> Quite a huge amount sometimes, because caravans tend to be driven a lot 
> slower than normal vehicles.  If you get stuck behind one for a long 
> stretch where they max out at 50mph and drop to 30mph going up hills, 
> you can lose a huge amount of time compared to doing a constant 60mph.

We are talking about a road where people put the brakes on and actually 
turn off their engines because the taffic is so slow. How much 
difference can it possibly make?!

The last time I drove this particular road, it took 2 hours to move 18 
feet forward. Are you seriously telling me getting in front of a caravan 
makes any difference? (I should also probably explain that 40% of the 
vehicles on this road are caravans. So get in front of one and you're 
still behind 200 others.)

>> (Actually, I'm sometimes tempted to hit the brakes just to destroy 
>> their car and see the look on their faces when they have to pay to fix 
>> two cars... I suspect that might not look good in court though.)
> 
> Yeh, I heard that doesn't wash, claiming "the guy in front did a full 
> emergency stop for no reason but to cause an accident" works quite well 
> as a defence.  And even if they did get the blame, it's still a major 
> hassle for you.  I tend to just slow down gradually, I mean there is an 
> increased risk of an accident so you better slow down to compensate :-)

How about just slowing down a little and claiming you saw a rabit? Or a 
plastic bag blew across the road and you *thought* it was a dangerous 
obstruction? >:-)

>> My dad tells me that when he wins the lottery, he's going to buy a 
>> Bigfood and accidentally destroy that car with it.
> 
> Just leave a friendly anonymous note on the windscreen, you never know.

Heh. Doubt it. Not knowing dad's neighbors. (One of the reasons he 
bought a CD of Widor's Toccata was so he didn't have to listen to them 
screaming at each other at the top of their voices through the wall...)

Post a reply to this message

> We are talking about a road where people put the brakes on and actually 
> turn off their engines because the taffic is so slow. How much difference 
> can it possibly make?!

Always greater than zero difference, at least, how much will depend on the 
road situation and what happens at any junctions etc, so impossible to 
predict.  What's to lose by overtaking one more caravan?  You never know, at 
the next section of dual carriageway that caravan might pull out to overtake 
something else, holding up the whole road to around 45mph for a few miles, 
or the caravan might get a red light and 20 more cars go infront of it from 
a side-road, or the road becomes clearer and the cars infront drive off at 
60mph yet this is the slowest driver in existance and you get stuck behind 
at 40mph, or ... or ...

> How about just slowing down a little and claiming you saw a rabit? Or a 
> plastic bag blew across the road and you *thought* it was a dangerous 
> obstruction? >:-)

Yeh, might work, but still is it really worth all the hassle of having to 
wait for your car to be repaired, possibly getting injured yourself, etc 
etc.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> We (UK and Germany and most other countries I've been to) have just 
> solid amber to mean it's about to go red.  It's illegal to go through on 
> red and you will be fined (or photographed then fined!), so the amber is 
> needed to give people a chance to stop before it goes red.  Faster roads 
> have longer amber phases to avoid you needing to do an emergency stop in 
> fear of running a red.

Same here. Our traffic laws are set at the state level, but everywhere 
I've ever been, the technical is "Yellow means stop if it's safe to stop 
and you'll not be in the intersection. If it's red and you're in the 
interesection, you're risking a ticket."

In other words, if you're going slow enough, stop when it turns yellow 
even if you could have made it through on the yellow. It doesn't mean 
"this is your last chance to make it, so slam on the gas."

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:14:37 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Incorrect contraction use in #5. ;-)
> 
> What, you never make any mistakes? :-P
> 
> There's a difference between one occasional mistake, and people who
> write page after page of horribly incorrect garbage.

It just struck me as funny, especially after reading your missive that 
included being annoyed by people who misuse apostrophes.

It's what's known as McKean's Law. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

m_a_r_c wrote:

> Did you ever come in France?
> If yes, were you drunk or mind-boggled by driving on the right side of the 
> road (instead of the wrong one)?? :-)
> 
> The correct sequence is
> 
> Green
> Amber
> Red
> Green

Good to see France has some sense ;)

This is the same as the U.S., btw.


-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> Good to see France has some sense ;) 
> This is the same as the U.S., btw.

Altho I have seen things where, for example, the left turn lane has a 
green arrow, and when that's going to a red arrow, all the lights go to 
yellow.  So if you're not in the left turn lane, you get
    green
    yellow
    red
    yellow
    red
    green

Not often, and a bit confusing when it happens, and not dangerous since 
you're already stopped. Just takes a bit of looking around to notice why.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

On 11-Nov-08 14:15, Invisible wrote:
> In the interests of public service, I'd like to point out the following 
> small details:
>
> 7. If there is no more space on your drive, 
Buy another 1TB USB disk?

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> Depends on your ear. ;-)

True, my ear is not a native English listener.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Tom Austin wrote:
> 
>> My favorite is when your light turns green
>> which means that the other traffic must have been red for 3-4 seconds
>> yet cars are still continuing to go through the intersection trying to 
>> 'beat' the red.
> 
> Yeah. Of course, the only thing they're likely to "beat" is the bodywork 
> of their precious sports car when it smashes into another vehicle.
> 

I also love people who go through an intersection and hit the person 
that ran the red light - in plain view.  Like you couldn't see someone 
was going to hit you or you were going to hit someone.


>> Another is when you are going to make a right turn and almost hit the 
>> guy that's been driving on the shoulder for 1/4 mile to make his right 
>> turn.
> 
> I don't know about other countries, but here that kind of thing is 
> illegal. (Not that this stops anybody...)
> 

Driving on the shoulder is illegal here as well, but people don't care.
If you are driving on the shoulder and you get hit (even if it is 
because the other person failed to look) it is your fault.  I know 
several people who thought they were cheated because it turned out to be 
their fault for driving on the shoulder.


> I don't know why, but people who drive expensive sports cars seem to 
> have the mentality that it's their road and everybody else is required 
> to get out of *their* way, and that the rules to not apply to them. As 
> if the world is put there for their own personal convinience or 
> something... grr!
> 


I honestly do not care how fast a person drives - just respect the 
others around you.  If the traffic is heavy, don't cause problems by 
weaving and the like.

If someone is bring a jerk, it's best to just let them past and get way 
ahead of you so that their actions don't cause you to get into an accident.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> My favorite is when your light turns green
>> which means that the other traffic must have been red for 3-4 seconds
>> yet cars are still continuing to go through the intersection trying to 
>> 'beat' the red.
> 
> In the UK at least I see a lot of junctions where the instant one 
> direction changes from amber to red, the other changes from red to 
> red+amber.

The delay is probably similar to red+amber.
Are you allowed to go on a red+amber?



   If you have a 3-4 second delay where all directions are on
> red, then of course people are going to be tempted to carry on jumping 
> the red for a few seconds after it's switched from green.
> 

Yes and no - it depends on where you live.  Some areas are really bad - 
10-15 seconds of red light running.  Other areas are very lawful and 
compliant.  I think it depends on the demeanor of the people that drive 
through the area.

I like that some places actually put in red light cameras - then it is 
automatic with the ticket, not only when there is a cop around.


>> Another is when you are going to make a right turn and almost hit the 
>> guy that's been driving on the shoulder for 1/4 mile to make his right 
>> turn.
> 
> Hehe, I guess you don't need to look out for cyclists while making right 
> turns there, here you just get into the habit of *always* looking to the 
> right - alongside and behind you - before actually turning.
> 

A cyclist is different, he should be there - that's where it is safer. 
You should always look before changing lanes.

It's those cars who are trying to get 30 cars ahead that cause the 
problem.  They think they have the right to drive on the shoulder 
because they are turning ahead - even to the point where if there is a 
car parked on the shoulder, they pull back into traffic - they just used 
the shoulder as a passing lane!



Tom

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scott wrote:
> red, then of course people are going to be tempted to carry on jumping 
> the red for a few seconds after it's switched from green.

My favorite is when I stop safely for the amber light and the guy behind 
me pulls out, goes around me, and blows thru the red light.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:20:22 -0200, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Depends on your ear. ;-)
> 
> True, my ear is not a native English listener.

:-)

One of my favourite quotes of all time comes from H2G2 - "...to boldly 
split infinitives that no man has split before."

Jim

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On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:38:25 -0500, Tom Austin wrote:

> If someone is bring a jerk, it's best to just let them past and get way
> ahead of you so that their actions don't cause you to get into an
> accident.

OTOH, if they get ahead of you and then get into an accident, that'll 
delay your trip....

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:38:25 -0500, Tom Austin wrote:
> 
>> If someone is bring a jerk, it's best to just let them past and get way
>> ahead of you so that their actions don't cause you to get into an
>> accident.
> 
> OTOH, if they get ahead of you and then get into an accident, that'll 
> delay your trip....
> 
> Jim

Yes, but at least you were not involved in the accident - given they 
were far enough ahead.

If you get in their way you may be the indirect cause of an accident.

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Darren New wrote:
> scott wrote:
>> red, then of course people are going to be tempted to carry on jumping 
>> the red for a few seconds after it's switched from green.
> 
> My favorite is when I stop safely for the amber light and the guy behind 
> me pulls out, goes around me, and blows thru the red light.
> 

Yes, I've had that happen.

I once made a safe stop at a red light.
I started to fiddle with the radio and started to hear tires squealing.
Next thing I know a guy blows past me sideways spinning into the 
intersection.
Apparently he anticipated that I would run the light and he would 
follow.  Then when he looked up again he almost hit me.

I lucked out that day.

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Tom Austin wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:38:25 -0500, Tom Austin wrote:
>>
>>> If someone is bring a jerk, it's best to just let them past and get way
>>> ahead of you so that their actions don't cause you to get into an
>>> accident.
>>
>> OTOH, if they get ahead of you and then get into an accident, that'll 
>> delay your trip....
>>
>> Jim
> 
> Yes, but at least you were not involved in the accident - given they 
> were far enough ahead.
> 
> If you get in their way you may be the indirect cause of an accident.
> 

In this state at least, it doesn't matter who caused the accident. If 
you're the last person in line, you're responsible. I'd rather be in 
front ;)
-- 
~Mike

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Darren New wrote:

> My favorite is when I stop safely for the amber light and the guy behind 
> me pulls out, goes around me, and blows thru the red light.

< a bit of a tangent, but not much .. >

I'm surprised Gail hasn't jumped in about the lunatic drivers in South 
Africa.

-- 
~Mike

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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> My favorite is when I stop safely for the amber light and the guy 
>> behind me pulls out, goes around me, and blows thru the red light.
> 
> < a bit of a tangent, but not much .. >
> 
> I'm surprised Gail hasn't jumped in about the lunatic drivers in South 
> Africa.
> 

maybe she's one of them ;-)

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> Same here. Our traffic laws are set at the state level, but everywhere 
> I've ever been, the technical is "Yellow means stop if it's safe to stop 
> and you'll not be in the intersection. If it's red and you're in the 
> interesection, you're risking a ticket."

In the UK at least, the law says that you must not go over the white line 
that is painted across the road next to the signal, if it is on red.  That 
is what the cameras look for, they take two photos that include the signal 
and the line in the frame, if they both show a red signal and the first is 
your car behind the line and second is your car ahead of the line, then 
that's proof enough to be fined.

I always wondered if the light was red (and there were no other cars 
around), whether it would be technically legal to drive on the other side of 
the road (into the oncoming traffic) and drive through the intersection. 
Technically you haven't crossed the white line that the signal is telling 
you to stop at (it only goes half way across the road).

> In other words, if you're going slow enough, stop when it turns yellow 
> even if you could have made it through on the yellow. It doesn't mean 
> "this is your last chance to make it, so slam on the gas."

Quite often though, people are driving above the speed limit, so the amber 
phase is maybe not long enough for them to have enough warning to stop, or 
to get over the line before it goes red.  Their only option to avoid running 
a red is to speed up.

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> I also love people who go through an intersection and hit the person that 
> ran the red light - in plain view.  Like you couldn't see someone was 
> going to hit you or you were going to hit someone.

Depends on the intersection, sometimes you would have no chance of seeing 
someone coming from the side at 50mph until it was too late to take any 
avoiding action.

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>> In the UK at least I see a lot of junctions where the instant one 
>> direction changes from amber to red, the other changes from red to 
>> red+amber.
>
> The delay is probably similar to red+amber.
> Are you allowed to go on a red+amber?

Not technically, but the phase is so short (usually 1 second or less) by the 
time you've actually started moving past the light it is on green anyway.

> Yes and no - it depends on where you live.  Some areas are really bad - 
> 10-15 seconds of red light running.

Huh? What do the cars do that are on green?  Here I see max. 1 second red 
light running, and even that is very rare.

> I like that some places actually put in red light cameras - then it is 
> automatic with the ticket, not only when there is a cop around.

Yeh a lot of them here too, although IMO they make the cameras too obvious.

> It's those cars who are trying to get 30 cars ahead that cause the 
> problem.  They think they have the right to drive on the shoulder because 
> they are turning ahead - even to the point where if there is a car parked 
> on the shoulder, they pull back into traffic - they just used the shoulder 
> as a passing lane!

Actually people do that here in Germany quite often when the traffic is 
slow, in fact there are even a few places with signs where it tells you to 
use the shoulder if you are turning off and traffic is slow.  If traffic is 
really slow or stopped then people will often drive for kms on the shoulder 
to get off at the next exit.  I sometimes wonder if any accidents are caused 
by this behaviour, like if someone is turning off and doesn't see someone 
else coming up on the shoulder, but everyone seems to have a similar 
understanding of what's going on.

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> I once made a safe stop at a red light.
> I started to fiddle with the radio and started to hear tires squealing.
> Next thing I know a guy blows past me sideways spinning into the 
> intersection.

Oh wow, yeh at least he didn't just plough into the back of you.

I had a similar experience on my bike once, it was at some construction work 
and the light went red, so I stopped and was first in line.  A split second 
later I see a cyclist (who must have been right behind me) come flying past 
me in the air pretty much separated from his bike. Once he'd picked himself 
up off the road and collected up his (now unrideable) bike, he said to me 
how stupid I was to stop at the light and I should have just gone through it 
like all the other cyclists!

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scott wrote:
>> I also love people who go through an intersection and hit the person 
>> that ran the red light - in plain view.  Like you couldn't see someone 
>> was going to hit you or you were going to hit someone.
> 
> Depends on the intersection, sometimes you would have no chance of 
> seeing someone coming from the side at 50mph until it was too late to 
> take any avoiding action.
> 

Yes, but then you have the perfectly clear view of a person sitting in 
your way - and you aim for them.

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scott wrote:
>>> In the UK at least I see a lot of junctions where the instant one 
>>> direction changes from amber to red, the other changes from red to 
>>> red+amber.
>>
>> The delay is probably similar to red+amber.
>> Are you allowed to go on a red+amber?
> 
> Not technically, but the phase is so short (usually 1 second or less) by 
> the time you've actually started moving past the light it is on green 
> anyway.
> 
>> Yes and no - it depends on where you live.  Some areas are really bad 
>> - 10-15 seconds of red light running.
> 
> Huh? What do the cars do that are on green?  Here I see max. 1 second 
> red light running, and even that is very rare.
> 

The cars waiting on green just have to keep waiting.



>> I like that some places actually put in red light cameras - then it is 
>> automatic with the ticket, not only when there is a cop around.
> 
> Yeh a lot of them here too, although IMO they make the cameras too obvious.
> 

What's the goal - to stop red light running or to give the most fines 
possible?
You hide them to give tickets, you show them if you just want people to 
stop.
Then the budget people come in - tighten the amber times so that we can 
give more red light tickets so that we can fund our pension plan.


> Actually people do that here in Germany quite often when the traffic is 
> slow, in fact there are even a few places with signs where it tells you 
> to use the shoulder if you are turning off and traffic is slow.  If 
> traffic is really slow or stopped then people will often drive for kms 
> on the shoulder to get off at the next exit.  I sometimes wonder if any 
> accidents are caused by this behaviour, like if someone is turning off 
> and doesn't see someone else coming up on the shoulder, but everyone 
> seems to have a similar understanding of what's going on.
> 

I've seen this on regular roads with stop lights.

Actually, I could care less if people use the shoulder - especially in 
the case you pointed out.  When driving on the shoulder and going at 
high speed along traffic that is almost stopped - that's asking for trouble.

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