It took me about 20 minutes to edit the video with Virtual Dub. 
(Apparently a 20-minute DVD decompresses to 29 GB of video. And 
apparently just copying that amount of data around takes a really long 
time. VD wasn't even using 10% CPU; it was *all* I/O time.) I had to 
find the correct segment of video (even though VD refuses to decode the 
sound that I now have the propper codec for), cut it out, scale it to 
get the correct aspect ratio, crop it to the right size, realign the 
sound with the picture (??!) and transcode it into something small 
enough to upload.

It then took me 7 seperate attempts, over the course of 3 days, to 
actually upload the ****ing file. (For some reason, every page on 
YouTube has to be selected 12 or 15 times before it will actually, like, 
*load*.) YouTube kept aborting the upload after about 20 minutes. (FWIW, 
the video is 40 MB in size - pretty huge for an upload, but tiny by 
video standards.)

But after many hours of work, the video is finally here in all its 
glory, for all teh interwebs to see:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z-mokvpoo

I wonder how many days it will be before some 12 year old posts a 
comment telling me I suck?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 05-Nov-08 11:41, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> It took me about 20 minutes to edit the video with Virtual Dub. 
> (Apparently a 20-minute DVD decompresses to 29 GB of video. And 
> apparently just copying that amount of data around takes a really long 
> time. VD wasn't even using 10% CPU; it was *all* I/O time.) I had to 
> find the correct segment of video (even though VD refuses to decode the 
> sound that I now have the propper codec for), cut it out, scale it to 
> get the correct aspect ratio, crop it to the right size, realign the 
> sound with the picture (??!) and transcode it into something small 
> enough to upload.
> 
> It then took me 7 seperate attempts, over the course of 3 days, to 
> actually upload the ****ing file. (For some reason, every page on 
> YouTube has to be selected 12 or 15 times before it will actually, like, 
> *load*.) YouTube kept aborting the upload after about 20 minutes. (FWIW, 
> the video is 40 MB in size - pretty huge for an upload, but tiny by 
> video standards.)
> 
> But after many hours of work, the video is finally here in all its 
> glory, for all teh interwebs to see:
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z-mokvpoo
> 
> I wonder how many days it will be before some 12 year old posts a 
> comment telling me I suck?
> 
Yes, kids tend to be more honest than adults.

Post a reply to this message

>> I wonder how many days it will be before some 12 year old posts a 
>> comment telling me I suck?
>>
> Yes, kids tend to be more honest than adults.

Thanks. I feel so much better now. :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

It's nice to know I'm not the only organ music fan hereabouts.
(I just listen and, to the great benefit of all, do not play.)
Thanks for the post. I quite enjoyed it.

Here's a quick link to something by my favorite organist (and Moog
synthesizer player)E. Power Biggs:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GVu0auaZu7s

Best Regards,
Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> But after many hours of work, the video is finally here in all its 
> glory, for all teh interwebs to see:

Heee... Apparently my friend's baby daughter "danced" to my playing! :-D

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> But after many hours of work, the video is finally here in all its 
> glory, for all teh interwebs to see:
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z-mokvpoo
> 
> I wonder how many days it will be before some 12 year old posts a 
> comment telling me I suck?
> 

Good accomplishment.

While I know it's near impossible, don't belittle yourself with how 
others might think.  Was it your goal to impress them, or to do 
something for yourself.



I've often thought it would be fun to learn how to play a musical 
instrument myself.

I stop thinking about it when I realize how mechanical I'll make it sound.



Good Job!

LAter...  Tom

Post a reply to this message

>> But after many hours of work, the video is finally here in all its 
>> glory, for all teh interwebs to see:
> 
> Good accomplishment.

Why thank you. :-)

> While I know it's near impossible, don't belittle yourself with how 
> others might think.  Was it your goal to impress them, or to do 
> something for yourself.

Well, I wanted to do it because I like it. But seriously, I spent 
*months* working on this. Some recognition would be nice...

> I've often thought it would be fun to learn how to play a musical 
> instrument myself.
> 
> I stop thinking about it when I realize how mechanical I'll make it sound.

Heh. It depends. I've been practising for decades, but even when I first 
started, I quickly became fairly good at it. It takes some doing to get 
to the point where you can play fluidly - but it is *so* worth it when 
you get there! :-D

I play keyboards. Once you know how to play something on a keyboard, you 
know how to move your fingers in the right way. If you can reach that 
stage, learning other stuff becomes much easier. (Easier compared to 
somebody who's never played in their life, that is. Some tunes never 
become "easy"...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>  (FWIW,
> the video is 40 MB in size - pretty huge for an upload, but tiny by
> video standards.)

Ouch!  With the way my so-called DSL has been performing lately, that would take
about 8 hours to download.

(You all who are doing the math, those numbers are correct:  old-fashioned
dail-up leaves my DSL standing still in the dust.  Yet no one in my household
seems to be taking me seriously about it.  Except for my niece when she barges
into my room ordering me to get off YouTube and quit hogging the bandwidth,
even when I'm not doing anything.  ("No, my dear *****, there really _is_ a
problem with the Internet service."))

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z-mokvpoo

  Congratulations on your first successful youtube video.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> Heh. It depends. I've been practising for decades, but even when I first 
> started, I quickly became fairly good at it. It takes some doing to get 
> to the point where you can play fluidly - but it is *so* worth it when 
> you get there! :-D
> 


Mu understanding is that music is not just pressing keys or hitting 
something.  It is flowing from within and what your fingers or toes do 
just is as expression of that.  Sure, you might be reading sheet music, 
but that's like looking at words while singing a song you know.

I'm too much of a perfectionist.  I would struggle with how to get the 
timing so perfect that I would miss the 'art' of it all.

I would be better off making a jig or writing some program that 
reproduced the music.

But then again - that's already been done.



> I play keyboards. Once you know how to play something on a keyboard, you 
> know how to move your fingers in the right way. If you can reach that 
> stage, learning other stuff becomes much easier. (Easier compared to 
> somebody who's never played in their life, that is. Some tunes never 
> become "easy"...)
> 

I could believe that.  I think just learning what music is, how to read 
it and even just hum it are a great start - I can't even do that.  I've 
'learned' how to read sheet music at various times in my life - just 
never used it enough to actually remember any of it.

Oh to be able to play something from within my head that actually made 
people smile.....  I guess that will be limited to what my programming 
and electronics accomplish - maybe a subject that I actually have a gift in.




Tom

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:

>   Congratulations on your first successful youtube video.

Thank you. It nearly killed me, but I did it eventually.

(Seriously... 7 attempts to make the file upload?? How on earth does so 
much stuff get onto YouTube when it's this hard to post anything?!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> (Seriously... 7 attempts to make the file upload?? How on earth does so 
> much stuff get onto YouTube when it's this hard to post anything?!)

  Do you honestly think youtube is *always* like that? Ever heard of
server problems, lag, etc?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Tom Austin wrote:

> Mu understanding is that music is not just pressing keys or hitting 
> something.  It is flowing from within and what your fingers or toes do 
> just is as expression of that.  Sure, you might be reading sheet music, 
> but that's like looking at words while singing a song you know.

Well yeah. It's technique and art.

For example, that organ I'm playing. The keys are seriously heavy. Can 
you see how the top set also moves when I play the button set? That's 
because there's metal strings physically linking the two. That makes the 
keys heavy as hell! >_< I'm also freezing my **** off, so I'm shivering 
(which messes up my timing) and my fingers aren't dexterous enough.

The long and short is, I'm hitting all the correct notes in the right 
order, but I'm not entirely "happy" with the performance. I know I can 
do better. I'm just frustrated I don't have that on video... :-/

> I could believe that.  I think just learning what music is, how to read 
> it and even just hum it are a great start - I can't even do that.  I've 
> 'learned' how to read sheet music at various times in my life - just 
> never used it enough to actually remember any of it.

Heh. It's 10 years since the last time I seriously tried to read music. 
I've now been learning this Toccata for so long, it's almost comming 
back to me. ;-)

Being able to read and/or write music isn't the same as being able to 
play it. I'm more concerned with being able to play it.

> Oh to be able to play something from within my head that actually made 
> people smile.....

Amen!

Most people look at this YouTube video and go "that's nice dear". 
Doesn't do justice to the 3 months I spent reaching this level...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> (Seriously... 7 attempts to make the file upload?? How on earth does so 
>> much stuff get onto YouTube when it's this hard to post anything?!)
> 
>   Do you honestly think youtube is *always* like that? Ever heard of
> server problems, lag, etc?

I tried at 10 PM *and* 10 AM, on two different days of the week. What 
time of day *isn't* it busy?

Still, I'm also having trouble to get mere playback to work... it keeps 
"giving up" on downloading the video. :-S

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> comment telling me I suck?

AWESOME TOCCATTA!

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> AWESOME TOCCATTA!

Yay! *dances*



Now... how well did you think I played it? :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> The long and short is, I'm hitting all the correct notes in the right 
> order, but I'm not entirely "happy" with the performance. I know I can 
> do better. I'm just frustrated I don't have that on video... :-/
> 

I think better isn't just reproducing the music better, but adding depth 
to it - not by adding extra notes.

It's like wine - anyone can make *wine* - but what make a wine good....


>> I could believe that.  I think just learning what music is, how to 
>> read it and even just hum it are a great start - I can't even do 
>> that.  I've 'learned' how to read sheet music at various times in my 
>> life - just never used it enough to actually remember any of it.
> 
> Heh. It's 10 years since the last time I seriously tried to read music. 
> I've now been learning this Toccata for so long, it's almost comming 
> back to me. ;-)
> 
> Being able to read and/or write music isn't the same as being able to 
> play it. I'm more concerned with being able to play it.
> 

I guess you are right there - knowing is something completely different 
that doing.

I've heard songs that were sung by the author that enveloped you in what 
it was saying - then I've heard the same song to the same tune sung by a 
*good* singer only to find it stale and missing something.


>> Oh to be able to play something from within my head that actually made 
>> people smile.....
> 
> Amen!
> 
> Most people look at this YouTube video and go "that's nice dear". 
> Doesn't do justice to the 3 months I spent reaching this level...
> 

But that's just it - there are very people who actually look at the 
effort that someone put into something.  They look at the surface - is 
it good or not.  They judge you against the naturals who can do things 
with out thinking and without practice.  We see it all the time - 
acting, sports, work, etc....

Also, a lot of people that you talk to may not really care about what 
you are doing - so your accomplishment really means nothing.  It's like 
me stating that I can run 100m in 11.5s to a lazy fat history teacher. 
So what....  that's not 9.69.

No those who know what you are doing and at least understand it some 
know how difficult it can be.  Not everyone can run 100m in 11.5s - not 
everyone can play that piece of music.  Especially someone who had tried 
to play it, but couldn't.  They may praise you.









Tom

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Now... how well did you think I played it? :-P

I've heard it done professionally better, but never better as a hobby, 
shall we say? It's clear you haven't perfected it but that you want to? :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> I've heard it done professionally better, but never better as a hobby, 
> shall we say? It's clear you haven't perfected it but that you want to? :-)

Well, for a start I only played 2 of the 3 staffs in that particular 
performance... I *have* a recording of me playing the other two. I shall 
probably unload that sometime.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to play a virtuoso on that particular 
organ. The key action is just so heavy. But I might be wrong there...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 05-Nov-08 22:13, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> I've heard it done professionally better, but never better as a hobby, 
>> shall we say? It's clear you haven't perfected it but that you want 
>> to? :-)
> 
> Well, for a start I only played 2 of the 3 staffs in that particular 
> performance... I *have* a recording of me playing the other two. 

Your spelling seems to have improved a bit recently (do you use a spell 
checker now?). Your math still is somewhat shaky.

Post a reply to this message

Thank you, I enjoyed it a lot. Of course - like Tom Austin said - people 
who don't play piano will not notice how difficult it is to hit it just 
right - even more so on an organ with heavy keys I guess (?). And they 
compare it to professional performances and hear the glitches, but you 
shouldn't care about that.
Perfectionism can be a bitch sometime. If you go by that, there is always 
someone who is better in that specific task. Better do the things you 
enjoy and look, how you improve compared to yourself and don't compare 
yourself to others.
I play trombone myself. I know, that compared to some other "more 
professional amateur" trombone players it's probably not "good enough", 
but I enjoy doing it. It gives me something, which I miss, if I don't 
play for some time. And I keep steadily improving.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I think you'd be hard-pressed to play a virtuoso on that particular 
> organ. 

Aye, that's what she said.


Seriously, tho, I'd be hard-pressed to play a scale on that particular 
organ. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

>> Well, for a start I only played 2 of the 3 staffs in that particular 
>> performance... I *have* a recording of me playing the other two. 
> 
> Your spelling seems to have improved a bit recently (do you use a spell 
> checker now?). Your math still is somewhat shaky.

Thunderbird has a built-in spell checker. But for some reason it doesn't 
work. (It tells me all words are mispelt.)

My math? Now do you mean mathematics or arithmetic? I *know* my 
arithmetic sucks! :-S

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> Seriously, tho, I'd be hard-pressed to play a scale on that particular 
> organ. :-)

No - the *keys* would [have to be] hard-pressed. ;-)

Did I mention being half-frozen? It's a stone-built church! In October! 
I was shivering like hell... (Hence the very un-fashionable clothing...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Florian Pesth wrote:
> Thank you, I enjoyed it a lot.

Well that's certainly what I'm aiming for!

> Of course - like Tom Austin said - people 
> who don't play piano will not notice how difficult it is to hit it just 
> right - even more so on an organ with heavy keys I guess (?). And they 
> compare it to professional performances and hear the glitches, but you 
> shouldn't care about that.

What I would be interested to know... compared to a propper performance, 
does my rendition sound "recognisibly" like the real time?

I always think that if a tune is similar enough that people recognise 
what it is, that's a solid way to start.

> I play trombone myself. I know, that compared to some other "more 
> professional amateur" trombone players it's probably not "good enough", 
> but I enjoy doing it. It gives me something, which I miss, if I don't 
> play for some time. And I keep steadily improving.

The truly astounding thing about this toccata is just how far I've come. 
When I first started trying to play it, it was painfully slow and 
mechanical. There were parts of it where I knew the notes but I 
literally couldn't play those parts because it was just too hard. And 
look at me now! I played the entire thing, end to end, with no gaps at 
all. (OK, actually I missed about half a bar at the end. So shoot me!) 
Parts which seemed impossibly hard just weeks ago now slow past with 
effortless grace.

I haven't reached that stage with all of the score yet. My next 
challenge is getting both hands working. I've made some good progress. 
Maybe I'll post a video for that too...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

> What I would be interested to know... compared to a propper performance,
> does my rendition sound "recognisibly" like the real time?

Yes, it is recognizable. I couldn't tell you the name if you didn't tell 
me, but that is because I don't listen so much to classical music at home 
(But for some time I went to performances of the local symphonic 
orchestra (it was cheap as a student) and my sister played piano. I think 
I have a good musical memory.).

> 
> I always think that if a tune is similar enough that people recognise
> what it is, that's a solid way to start.

It sure is! I would think that already the different response of the keys 
makes it a completely different (and more difficult) to play. Do you have 
chance of getting there more often and getting used to the instrument? 

> 
>> I play trombone myself. I know, that compared to some other "more
>> professional amateur" trombone players it's probably not "good enough",
>> but I enjoy doing it. It gives me something, which I miss, if I don't
>> play for some time. And I keep steadily improving.
> 
> The truly astounding thing about this toccata is just how far I've come.
> When I first started trying to play it, it was painfully slow and
> mechanical. There were parts of it where I knew the notes but I
> literally couldn't play those parts because it was just too hard.

Yeah, muscle memory is amazing, isn't it? But without it I guess you 
really couldn't play time critical parts on any instrument - it is just 
to fast to think about it.

> And
> look at me now! I played the entire thing, end to end, with no gaps at
> all. (OK, actually I missed about half a bar at the end. So shoot me!)
> Parts which seemed impossibly hard just weeks ago now slow past with
> effortless grace.
> 
> I haven't reached that stage with all of the score yet. My next
> challenge is getting both hands working. I've made some good progress.
> Maybe I'll post a video for that too...

Do you take (or took) classes or are you learning completely on your own? 
Maybe it would help to take some lessons (not necessarily regulary, but 
sometimes it is good to get some hints and correct some mistakes).

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z-mokvpoo

That sounds great! Better than I would be able to play it :)

Also good job on getting a decent video quality for YouTube (it looked quite
good), although it started to screw up near the end just as I was typing
this sentence :D

BTW, the way you wrote the video title, you probably WILL get 12 year olds
saying you suck. People who would click on "nerd playing the organ" are the
people who would then post saying "haha nerd!". Don't be so hard on
yourself.

Post a reply to this message

On 05-Nov-08 22:49, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Well, for a start I only played 2 of the 3 staffs in that particular 
>>> performance... I *have* a recording of me playing the other two. 
>>
>> Your spelling seems to have improved a bit recently (do you use a 
>> spell checker now?). Your math still is somewhat shaky.
> 
> Thunderbird has a built-in spell checker. But for some reason it doesn't 
> work. (It tells me all words are mispelt.)

Strange, mine works. It tells me e.g. that in your message the only word 
that is misspelled is mispelt

> My math? Now do you mean mathematics or arithmetic? I *know* my 
> arithmetic sucks! :-S

I think arithmetic may be more accurate for 2+2=3 but OTOH I though that 
  it was generally referred to as maths. I am not a native though.

Post a reply to this message

> (Seriously... 7 attempts to make the file upload?? How on earth does so 
> much stuff get onto YouTube when it's this hard to post anything?!)

Try it from work?  I've uploaded a few videos on our 2MBit SDSL connection 
and it's pretty quick :-)

Post a reply to this message

Mike the Elder wrote:
> It's nice to know I'm not the only organ music fan hereabouts.
> (I just listen and, to the great benefit of all, do not play.)
> Thanks for the post. I quite enjoyed it.

Yay. :-D

Gotta love the power and majesty of a large, fully-working organ. What 
other purely accoustic instrument can send ladies' handbags scurrying 
across the floor like startled rodents?

> Here's a quick link to something by my favorite organist (and Moog
> synthesizer player)E. Power Biggs:
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GVu0auaZu7s

I'll have to wait until I get home to play that...

Post a reply to this message

Florian Pesth wrote:

> Yes, it is recognizable.

Yay! :-D

(Unlike my attempt at pronouncing some of the stop names on this 
instrument...)

>> I always think that if a tune is similar enough that people recognise
>> what it is, that's a solid way to start.
> 
> It sure is! I would think that already the different response of the keys 
> makes it a completely different (and more difficult) to play. Do you have 
> chance of getting there more often and getting used to the instrument? 

Yeah, but... the organ is in need of repair. This is due to happen soon. 
I think I'll wait until after that happens. Right now, too many things 
don't work right. (E.g., I discovered that with a certain combination of 
stops, the F3 key "sticks". As in, you press it and it doesn't release. 
Until you play some notes next to it, which unsticks it.)

> Yeah, muscle memory is amazing, isn't it? But without it I guess you 
> really couldn't play time critical parts on any instrument - it is just 
> to fast to think about it.

The bizzare thing is that it's difficult to play it slower - I keep 
forgetting where I've got to! ;-)

> Do you take (or took) classes or are you learning completely on your own? 
> Maybe it would help to take some lessons (not necessarily regulary, but 
> sometimes it is good to get some hints and correct some mistakes).

Organ lessons seem like an appealing concept... Not sure where to get 
those from though.

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> That sounds great! Better than I would be able to play it :)

Yay! Thanks.

You know, when I first heard this at the Royal Albert Hall, I just 
assumed it was impossible to play. And now I'm playing it! o_O

> Also good job on getting a decent video quality for YouTube (it looked quite
> good), although it started to screw up near the end just as I was typing
> this sentence :D

Yeah - the video on my HD is perfect, but what actually ended up on 
YouTube breaks up in several places... WTF? Still, at least the sound is OK.

(You know that the crackling is only in the normal-quality version, 
right? If you select "play in high-quality" the crackling goes away. You 
still have to put up with the compander and the limited frequency 
response of my camera tho...)

> BTW, the way you wrote the video title, you probably WILL get 12 year olds
> saying you suck. People who would click on "nerd playing the organ" are the
> people who would then post saying "haha nerd!". Don't be so hard on
> yourself.

Well, everybody else is pretty hard on me... :-S

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z-mokvpoo
> 

Not bad. A couple encoding errors toward the end, though.

I have tons of questions about the organ. You mentioned stops, once ... 
how do stops relate to the keys on the keyboard?

I know the consoles to the left and right of the keyboards have to do 
with selecting timbre of the organ, but what do the knobs below the 
keyboards do?

-- 
~Mike

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Well done!  BTW, that was quite the maniacal laugh at the end!  Classic.  :)

Post a reply to this message

Kyle wrote:
> Well done!  BTW, that was quite the maniacal laugh at the end!  
> Classic.  :)

Thanks!

The laugh was a spur-of-the-moment thing. I didn't plan it at all. But I 
think it really adds something to the performance! :-D

If nothing else, I can tell who watching all the way through... >:-D

Post a reply to this message

Kyle wrote:
> Well done!  BTW, that was quite the maniacal laugh at the end!  
> Classic.  :)

Oh yes.. I quite liked the maniacal laugh at the end :)

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:

> Not bad. A couple encoding errors toward the end, though.

Those encoding errors don't exist in the file I have on my harddrive. I 
watched it end-to-end to check. I can only imagine that either a few 
packets got lost during uploading (how??), or YouTube itself did 
something wrong when transcoding the video. (I uploaded it as an H.264 
AVI. I have no idea what YouTube transcodes it to.)

> I have tons of questions about the organ. You mentioned stops, once ... 
> how do stops relate to the keys on the keyboard?
> 
> I know the consoles to the left and right of the keyboards have to do 
> with selecting timbre of the organ, but what do the knobs below the 
> keyboards do?

Well now...

The organ contains several different kinds of pipes - long thin ones, 
short fat ones, metal ones, wooden ones, some with reeds, some with 
fipples. That all sound different.

The pipes are grouped into "ranks". Each rank (usually) contains a pipe 
for each key on the keyboard. (On the organ *I* played, a few of the 
ranks are incomplete, so some keys actually don't produce a note.)

The "stops" are what connects the keyboards to the ranks. With all the 
stops closed, the keys make no sound at all. If you open a particular 
stop (by pulling the "drawknobs" to the left and right of the 
keyboards), then pressing a key causes the corresponding pipe in that 
rank to speak. It's like selecting a sound preset on an electronic keyboard.

However, you can open *several* stops at once. This causes several pipes 
to play the same note when you press any given key. (Actually, this 
organ also has a "mixture" stop which causes several pipes tuned to 
different pitches to speak when you press a single note. Personally, I 
don't care for the effect too much.)

Now then, the ranks are grouped together into "divisions". And each 
keyboard controls a different division. The organ I played is about the 
smallest kind you can get: two manuals and a peddleboard. (I.e., a set 
of keys that you're ment to play with your feet.)

This particular organ is so small that the peddle division has only 1 
rank ("Bordon"). And half the notes don't work properly. And the peddle 
action is pretty busted.

The two manuals control the "Great division" ( = lower keyboard) and the 
"Swell division" ( = upper keyboard). Each of these divisions has a 
seperate set of ranks/stops.

Modern organs have the keys connected to the pipes electronically. 
However, the 151 year-old organ I'm playing uses metal connecting rods. 
This results in the keys being seriously heavy to play! But if you look 
closely, you can see the keys of the Swell manual actually move when I 
play the keys of the Great manual. (BUT NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND!) This 
is because I have engaged a special drawknob called a "coupler". And the 
next effect, obviously, is that now even more pipes play when I hit a key.

In this recording, I have the organ configured almost to "full organ". 
(Full organ = every rank plays when you hit a key. Actually I don't have 
*all* the stops open, so not quite. But nearly!)

The *other* thing the coupler does is make the keys even heavier - since 
  am now providing mechanical force through my fingers to oeprate two 
sets of rods! (The action probably needs cleaning and oiling.)

I can also connect the peddles to the Great manual with another coupler. 
However, when I did this, I discovered that some of the keys start to 
jam in the on-position. This organ really needs some serious TLC! But 
you can see that by this method, I could actually use the peddles to 
play pipes from a rank not in the peddle division.

On really large organs, you can swap the connections between keyboards 
and divisions around, transpose up/down an octave, and do all kinds of 
other crazy stuff. It's a really complicated machine! But this is only a 
small organ in a local village church, so its capabilities are far more 
limited.

The "knobs below the keyboards" (which this particular organ doesn't 
have) are called "thumb pistons". (You also get "toe pistons", which you 
push with your feet. See the Widor Toccata at the Newark Basilica for 
this and some generally good close-ups of a large organ being operated.) 
These select predefined combinations of settings.

On mechanical organs, these are predefined by the organ designer. On 
modern electric organs, they are computer-programmable. If you find a 
close-up shot of the Grand Organ at the Royal Albert Hall for example, 
there's a *disk drive* slot on the console to load/save stop settings! o_O

Does that answer your questions?

(Heee... I sound like an expert! Wikipedia FTW!!)

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> Kyle wrote:
>> Well done!  BTW, that was quite the maniacal laugh at the end!  
>> Classic.  :)
> 
> Oh yes.. I quite liked the maniacal laugh at the end :)

I'm really quite glad I put that part in! ^_^

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news: 
4912b9a8$1@news.povray.org...

Nice  play and all by memory wow!


> Organ lessons seem like an appealing concept... Not sure where to get 
> those from though.

I know there is an organ school  for children as well as adults in my small 
town (I recorded and burnt a CD of their annual concert)
I guess there is one not so far from MK

Marc

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m_a_r_c wrote:

> Nice  play and all by memory wow!

Heh. Well... I mean... you play each chord several times, with the same 
rhythem. Just gotta remember what chords those are, is all. ;-)

> I know there is an organ school  for children as well as adults in my small 
> town (I recorded and burnt a CD of their annual concert)
> I guess there is one not so far from MK

Mmm, I'll Google it...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> Does that answer your questions?

I think ... It's a rather complicated machine, then? :)

OK, so the divisions then are the labeled items in each of the sections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_Hall_Auditorium_Organ

eg. Pedal Left, Unenclosed Chior, Great, etc ...

 From a different organ:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:String-Division-Middle-Sect.jpg

Each row of pipes would be a rank, then?

So, the string division on this organ has dozens of stops?

OK. When you mentioned stops, you mentioned a 32' (or was it 16'?) stop. 
Obviously from the sheer size a very low note. How does that relate to 
the organ.

FWIW, you really can't appreciate a pipe organ unless you hear it live.

The church my inlaws go to has a pipe organ that they actually use. It's 
pretty much brand new. The lowest notes were simply incredible to 
experience. (It is a legitimate pipe organ, you can see the display 
pipes, I have no idea where the rest of the instrument is. I've not 
actually looked at the console.)


> (Heee... I sound like an expert! Wikipedia FTW!!)


-- 
~Mike

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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
> 
>> Does that answer your questions?
> 
> I think ... It's a rather complicated machine, then? :)

Yep. Learning to play a large pipe organ is like learning to drive a 
car. You need both hands and your feet, and they need to work in a 
coordinated fashion, but after a while you can do it with effortless 
grace. (Depending on exactly what you're trying to do... F1 drivers make 
taking corners at 160 MPH look pretty effortless, but *you* try it 
sometime!)

> OK, so the divisions then are the labeled items in each of the sections:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_Hall_Auditorium_Organ
> 
> eg. Pedal Left, Unenclosed Chior, Great, etc ...

Not entirely...

The divisions are a conceptual entity. Typical division names are 
"peddle", "great", "swell", "choir" and "echo". Usually there is one 
keyboard to each division. (But there can occasionally be "floating 
divisions" that are only accessed by couplers.) Where the pipes 
physically *are* in the building is an entirely different matter.

Pipes can be "enclosed", meaning they're inside a box with movable 
shutters. A peddle on the console opens and closes the shutters, thus 
altering the apparent loudness of the pipes. Apparently this organ has a 
choir division where only some of the ranks are enclosed. (This is not 
uncommon.)

The organ I played has *all* the pipes of the Swell enclosed, and *all* 
the pipes of the Great and Peddle divisions unenclosed. (A completely 
standard design for such a small organ.) At the end of the video you can 
just about see me operating the Swell peddle, which opens and closes the 
shutters.

>  From a different organ:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:String-Division-Middle-Sect.jpg
> 
> Each row of pipes would be a rank, then?

Probably - but not necessarily. The organ builder can arrange the pipes 
any way they damned well fancy. It *looks* like you're right, but it 
might be that, say, each *pair* of rows is a complete rank, with the 
pipes in one row being the next note up, or something.

> So, the string division on this organ has dozens of stops?

This is from the famous Wanamaker, the largest playable pipe organ in 
the entire world. And yes, it is famed for its *vast* string division. 
(The organ I played doesn't even have a single string stop. But then, 
it's a *church* organ rather than a *theatre* organ.)

> OK. When you mentioned stops, you mentioned a 32' (or was it 16'?) stop. 
> Obviously from the sheer size a very low note. How does that relate to 
> the organ.

A "normal" pipe rank is called an 8' rank. Because the lowest note has a 
pipe roughly 8' long - assuming it's an open pipe. Stopped pipes are 
half the length. And actually there are end corrections too depending on 
the width of the pipe and other parameters... But notionally, 8' long.

Thus, any stop marked "8'" will cause the keys to sound at the same 
pitch as a piano. (The organ I played just happens to have a piano sat 
right next to it. Currently the church doesn't have an organist!)

A 4' rank sounds one octave higher, and a 2' rank sounds an octave 
higher again. You can play such a rank on its own, or you can mix it 
with a 8' to add more "brightness" to the sound.

In my recording, I have (from the looks of it) two 8' stops, a 4' stop 
and the 2' pulled (in the Great division), and also a 16' in the Swell.

> FWIW, you really can't appreciate a pipe organ unless you hear it live.

No. My cheap camera mic doesn't do it justice. Why, you can hardly 
*hear* the bass notes I'm playing! And they aren't even that low...

> The church my inlaws go to has a pipe organ that they actually use. It's 
> pretty much brand new. The lowest notes were simply incredible to 
> experience. (It is a legitimate pipe organ, you can see the display 
> pipes, I have no idea where the rest of the instrument is. I've not 
> actually looked at the console.)

The peddle division on this organ makes the flower arrangements audibly 
rattle.

Unfortunately, as I say, only some of the notes work. One of the peddles 
just makes a hissing noise at you! o_O

Post a reply to this message

>> OK. When you mentioned stops, you mentioned a 32' (or was it 16'?) 
>> stop. Obviously from the sheer size a very low note. How does that 
>> relate to the organ.
> 
> In my recording, I have (from the looks of it) two 8' stops, a 4' stop 
> and the 2' pulled (in the Great division), and also a 16' in the Swell.

To clarify: The organ I played has two 16' stops, and no 32' stops at all.

One of the 16' stops is obviously (the only rank in) the Peddle 
division. The other one is in the Swell division, oddly enough...

Would you (or anybody else) be interested in a complete readout of the 
organ stops?

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> Would you (or anybody else) be interested in a complete readout of the 
> organ stops?

Perhaps ... could be interesting..

-- 
~Mike

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Built 1857 by A. Hunter of London.

Equal temperment, electric blowing. (Originally hand bellows.) Balanced 
swell peddle.

2 manuals and 1 peddleboard.

Peddleboard: 30 keys, C0 - F1, straight concave, wood, mechanical action.

Manuals: 56 keys, C0 - G3, evory, mechanical action.

Peddle division:
   Bordon 16'

Great division:
   Open Diapason 8'
   Stopped Diapason 8'
   Dulciana 8' (incomplete rank)
   Principal 4'
   Flute 4' (incomplete rank)
   Fifteenth 2'

Swell division (enclosed):
   Double Diapason 16' (incomplete rank)
   Horn Diapason 8' (incomplete rank)
   Lieblich Gedact 8'
   Principal 4'
   Full Mixture III
   Cornopean 8'
   Tremelo (sic.)

Couplers:
   Swell to Peddle
   Swell to Great
   Great to Peddle

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> 2 manuals and 1 peddleboard.

Typical for a small organ.

> Peddleboard: 30 keys, C0 - F1, straight concave, wood, mechanical action.

Concave = the peddles in the middle are lower than the peddles at the 
edges. The alternative is for all peddles to be the same height.

Straight = the peddles are parallel to each other. The alternative is 
"radial", meaning the peddles radiate out around the stool.

> Peddle division:
>   Bordon 16'

Small organs typically have very few peddle stops. If there is only one, 
it is almost always a Bordon.

> Great division:
>   Open Diapason 8'
>   Stopped Diapason 8'

These are your basic organ stops. Sounds rather flute-like. The stopped 
diapason sounds quieter and more muffled, but otherwise similar to the 
open diapason. These are both 8' (i.e., normal pitch) stops.

>   Dulciana 8' (incomplete rank)

A rather pleasent, quiet stop, with a mellow tone. Sounds almost 
"distant". It is "incomplete" in that there are no pipes for the bottom 
octave.

>   Principal 4'
>   Flute 4' (incomplete rank)
>   Fifteenth 2'

These sound more or less like diapasons, but higher-pitched. Use them on 
their own, or mixed in with an 8' stop just to add more trebble.

> Swell division (enclosed):
>   Double Diapason 16' (incomplete rank)

Double as in double length. (This is a 16' stop.)

>   Horn Diapason 8' (incomplete rank)

I'm not fond of this one. Sounds a bit like a fog horn.

>   Lieblich Gedact 8'

Ask Florian how the **** you pronounce that. (It seems to be roughly 
"YEE-blihh deDAAkt".) It has a lovely flute-like tone, soft and 
delicate. Works best for melodies rather than chords.

>   Principal 4'
>   Full Mixture III

Again, use these to flesh out the sound. Personally I don't like the 
Mixture stop very much.

>   Cornopean 8'

The only reed rank on the organ. (The others are all flue pipes.) 
Produces an irritating trumpet-like sound.

>   Tremelo (sic.)

Pull this and the organ makes a thunderous noise like an unbalanced 
washing machine! o_O Makes all the ranks sound like they've been put 
through a Leslie speaker. (It modulates the air pressure.)

> Couplers:
>   Swell to Peddle
>   Swell to Great
>   Great to Peddle

As demonstrated, this causes a second set of keys to move when you press 
the first set. (Also makes the keys correspondingly heavier! And more 
prone to jamming on this tired old organ.) On modern electric organs, 
this would just make an extra rank speak without actually moving the 
keys. I kinda like the graphic demonstration of what it does though!

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
> 
>> 2 manuals and 1 peddleboard.
> 
> Typical for a small organ.
> 
>> Peddleboard: 30 keys, C0 - F1, straight concave, wood, mechanical action.
> 
> Concave = the peddles in the middle are lower than the peddles at the 
> edges. The alternative is for all peddles to be the same height.
> 
> Straight = the peddles are parallel to each other. The alternative is 
> "radial", meaning the peddles radiate out around the stool.
> 
>> Peddle division:
>>   Bordon 16'
> 
> Small organs typically have very few peddle stops. If there is only one, 
> it is almost always a Bordon.
> 
>> Great division:
>>   Open Diapason 8'
>>   Stopped Diapason 8'
> 
> These are your basic organ stops. Sounds rather flute-like. The stopped 
> diapason sounds quieter and more muffled, but otherwise similar to the 
> open diapason. These are both 8' (i.e., normal pitch) stops.
> 
>>   Dulciana 8' (incomplete rank)
> 
> A rather pleasent, quiet stop, with a mellow tone. Sounds almost 
> "distant". It is "incomplete" in that there are no pipes for the bottom 
> octave.
> 
>>   Principal 4'
>>   Flute 4' (incomplete rank)
>>   Fifteenth 2'
> 
> These sound more or less like diapasons, but higher-pitched. Use them on 
> their own, or mixed in with an 8' stop just to add more trebble.
> 
>> Swell division (enclosed):
>>   Double Diapason 16' (incomplete rank)
> 
> Double as in double length. (This is a 16' stop.)
> 
>>   Horn Diapason 8' (incomplete rank)
> 
> I'm not fond of this one. Sounds a bit like a fog horn.
> 
>>   Lieblich Gedact 8'
> 
> Ask Florian how the **** you pronounce that. (It seems to be roughly 
> "YEE-blihh deDAAkt".) It has a lovely flute-like tone, soft and 
> delicate. Works best for melodies rather than chords.
> 
>>   Principal 4'
>>   Full Mixture III
> 
> Again, use these to flesh out the sound. Personally I don't like the 
> Mixture stop very much.
> 
>>   Cornopean 8'
> 
> The only reed rank on the organ. (The others are all flue pipes.) 
> Produces an irritating trumpet-like sound.
> 
>>   Tremelo (sic.)
> 
> Pull this and the organ makes a thunderous noise like an unbalanced 
> washing machine! o_O Makes all the ranks sound like they've been put 
> through a Leslie speaker. (It modulates the air pressure.)
> 
>> Couplers:
>>   Swell to Peddle
>>   Swell to Great
>>   Great to Peddle
> 
> As demonstrated, this causes a second set of keys to move when you press 
> the first set. (Also makes the keys correspondingly heavier! And more 
> prone to jamming on this tired old organ.) On modern electric organs, 
> this would just make an extra rank speak without actually moving the 
> keys. I kinda like the graphic demonstration of what it does though!

Thanks for that :) an interesting read. So, this is a pretty typical 
organ, then?

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:

> Thanks for that :) an interesting read.

Heh. I'm glad somebody liked it. ;-)

> So, this is a pretty typical organ, then?

It's fairly typical for a small Victorian organ, yes. The *exact* stop 
readout varies according to the builder's taste and the time period, but 
this is a fairly typical specimin.

2 manuals + 1 peddleboard is about the smallest pipe organs get. There 
are smaller ones, but not often.

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Now with two hands:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ou5rQuzfyP4

As you can see, this is... quite hard! o_O

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ou5rQuzfyP4

> As you can see, this is... quite hard! o_O

  Still much better than anything I could ever have the patience to learn...

  Btw, who is the cameraman?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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