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14 Oct 2026 13:17:57 EDT (-0400)
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 15:52:07
Message: <48f649e7@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:18:27 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>Well, you know what I mean.  I was initially surprised by the mileage
>>the car we drove got until I realised why that was. ;-)
>>
> Well if you will insist on having 16 fluid ounces to a pint instead of
> 20 what can you expect? (BTW for the metric brigade there are 16 ounces
> in a pound (weight) and if you have 20 fluid oz in a pint, a pint of
> water weighs a pound) [You know it makes sense :)]

Well, hey, it's not my fault alcohol evaporates when transported 
overseas. ;-)

>>>>> Only if you're innumerate :P
>>>>
>>>>You forget that America is the land of the innumerate. ;-)
>>> 
>>> The young here are not much better. But then I was brought up before
>>> calculators were affordable. In fact they were not allowed in exams.
>>> Today's kids look aghast if you offer the correct money in a shop.
>>> Sad!
>>
>>I actually look for situations to exercise my mind in that way - doing
>>what should be simple math without starting bc or using a calculator.
>>
>>I wonder how many others do that?
>>
>>
> Yeah! It keeps your mind muscle fit.

And that's a good thing to do.  The interesting thing is the tie between 
physical fitness and mental agility - some interesting studies done about 
that in alzheimers' patients (my dad was one, so I used to read a lot 
about it - and apparently there is a genetic predisposition for it, so 
I've tried to keep up with the research).

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 15:53:26
Message: <48f64a36$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:25:07 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> government often re-brand companies

Huh?  Over here, companies may rebrand, but the goverment doesn't do 
that.  (We just give the failing ones money ;-) ).

> enough for the bible then it's good enough for me, attitude) And Wales
> and parts of Scotland have dual language signs.

True, hadn't thought about that.

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 15:54:03
Message: <48f64a5b$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:55:07 -0300, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Last time I was over there, I remember commenting on it talking to a
>> friend as I was driving his car (first time out, always good to drive
>> with someone who actually knows - and he had a vested interest, since
>> it was his car), and his comment was that it came down to a cost issue
>> - replacing perfectly good signs with other perfectly good signs wasn't
>> seen as cost-effective.
>> 
>> 
> Some vandal should destroy the current signs then :)

Get on that, will ya? ;-)

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 15:54:49
Message: <48f64a89$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:25:01 +0100, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Haha, not a hope, we're the most thoroughly nay exhaustively signposted
> country in the world.

Hey, now *that's* certainly true.  I didn't need a GPS to get where I was 
going, and printed directions were no use to us - just knowing the signs 
to look for got us around better than anything. :-)

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 15:56:07
Message: <48f64ad7$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:30:34 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 15 Oct 2008 13:47:45 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>That's right - but I want to say the kph was on the outside whereas on
>>US cars it's on the inside.
>>
>>
> I am contradicting you tonight :P. 

You are.  Stop it. ;-)

> On my car the kph is on the inside
> and it is in red so that it does not distract (I think) this was not
> helpful to me when I drove it for 9 months on the continent a few years
> ago and could not make out the speed at night.

Ouch.

>>More fun in your head is to convert the cost there to US dollars per US
>>gallon....
> 
> If only the exchange rate would stay the same at the end of a journey as
> it was at the beginning :)

Well, yeah, that would be useful.  It was more stable when we were last 
there.

Still not favourable to us, though.

Jim


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:16:23
Message: <48f64f97@news.povray.org>
Bill Pragnell wrote:
> I think it's military - quicker to say 'klick' than 'kilometre/er'. That 
> you think of SF speaks volumes about how much military-heavy SF there is 
>  out of hollywood!

Mostly books, really. And I have read a number of SF books involving 
futuristic armies and such, so I suppose that explains it.

Of course, space ships are just like ocean ships, so of course you use 
military terms in space, yes? ;-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)


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From: Bill Pragnell
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:25:36
Message: <48f651c0$1@news.povray.org>
Darren New wrote:
> Bill Pragnell wrote:
>> I think it's military - quicker to say 'klick' than 'kilometre/er'. 
>> That you think of SF speaks volumes about how much military-heavy SF 
>> there is  out of hollywood!
> 
> Mostly books, really. And I have read a number of SF books involving 
> futuristic armies and such, so I suppose that explains it.

Yup, SF vs sci-fi, sorry. Joe Haldeman's a favourite of mine, read any 
of his? The Forever War is a particularly scintillating military-based 
novel.

> Of course, space ships are just like ocean ships, so of course you use 
> military terms in space, yes? ;-)

There's Klingons off the starboard bow, cap'n


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From: Bill Pragnell
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:29:56
Message: <48f652c4@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
>>>>> I thought that Klicks were a SF term for K/s
>>>> I think it's military - quicker to say 'klick' than 'kilometre/er'. That 
>>>> you think of SF speaks volumes about how much military-heavy SF there is 
>>>>  out of hollywood!
>>>>
>>> Not Hollywood for me, Robert Heinlein maybe. Same thing, really :)
>> Of course, you said SF not sci-fi. How remiss of me. Come to think of 
>> it, Heinlein might have been my first encounter with the klick too!
> 
> I think that you need a trip to London for a drink or two ;)

LondonPovCon? Anything ever come of BrumPovCon? I'll keep my ears to the 
ground, whichever.

Haha, reminds me of a joke. The Lone Ranger and Tonto are riding across 
the desert, when Tonto stops and puts his head to the dust.
"Buffalo come," he intones.
"That's amazing," says the Lone Ranger, "How can you tell?"
"Ear stuck to ground."

:-)


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:34:42
Message: <bnkcf4d57fs2vnqove4qlmopvfabi708ha@4ax.com>
On 15 Oct 2008 15:52:07 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>Well, hey, it's not my fault alcohol evaporates when transported 
>overseas. ;-)
>

You need to keep the corks damp ;)


>> Yeah! It keeps your mind muscle fit.
>
>And that's a good thing to do.  The interesting thing is the tie between 
>physical fitness and mental agility

It well known that men used to fade away when they stopped working.

> - some interesting studies done about 
>that in alzheimers' patients (my dad was one, so I used to read a lot 
>about it - and apparently there is a genetic predisposition for it, so 
>I've tried to keep up with the research).

Scary! It is one of my fears that I'll end up talking to the fairies when I'm
old.
Well talking out loud :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Bill Pragnell
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:35:03
Message: <48f653f7$1@news.povray.org>
Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:25:01 +0100, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> 
>> Haha, not a hope, we're the most thoroughly nay exhaustively signposted
>> country in the world.
> 
> Hey, now *that's* certainly true.  I didn't need a GPS to get where I was 
> going, and printed directions were no use to us - just knowing the signs 
> to look for got us around better than anything. :-)

I don't use them either, although that's partly because most models are 
still more expensive than my car(!). But you're right, the signs aren't 
just numerous, they're incredibly helpful, especially the way road 
numbers are specified. :-)


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:45:14
Message: <48F656AB.9000100@hotmail.com>
On 15-Oct-08 7:50, Stephen wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:13:05 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> 
>>> Whether you think it's logical or not is your call.
>> indeed, and I think it is totally nonsense. It may be true for some 
>> class of carpenters. Mainly for those with no relevant education and no 
>> skills in carpentry. Either the lowest ranking on the job or the 
>> manager. 
> 
> That sounds a bit like snobbery to me.

Why? I have seen quite a few skillful carpenters and constructors (or 
whatever their job description is in English) in mechanical workshops 
and I have simply never seen any indication that any size was more 
special to them than others. So I think it is logical to assume that 
anyone who thinks 40 is more basic than 33 is forcing himself to think 
in numbers in stead of in materials.
Which is of course also a generalization from my own experience. I am an 
extremely bad carpenter and that is one of the major reasons. Which 
raises another interesting question: can you be snobbish towards yourself?


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:47:00
Message: <cklcf4lieti53g3h8t56ggrsb8aevg0052@4ax.com>
On 15 Oct 2008 15:53:26 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:25:07 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> government often re-brand companies
>
>Huh?  Over here, companies may rebrand, but the goverment doesn't do 
>that.  (We just give the failing ones money ;-) ).
>

In living memory, the GPO (General Post Office) turned into the PO then Royal
Mail and BT (British Telecom) which split off its mobile (cell) arm to O2 all
changes needed rebranding. The telephone system changed its numbering so all
companies had to reprint their headed papers and adverts. (London went from 01
to 071 for inner London and 081 for outer London then to 0171 and 0181 now it is
0207 and 0208) 

>> enough for the bible then it's good enough for me, attitude) And Wales
>> and parts of Scotland have dual language signs.
>
>True, hadn't thought about that.
>

And why should you?
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:49:39
Message: <bnlcf41nj199kqhp786o300e7v1g7oqb5c@4ax.com>
On 15 Oct 2008 15:56:07 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:30:34 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>

>> I am contradicting you tonight :P. 
>
>You are.  Stop it. ;-)
>

OK
(If you stop being wrong :)

>> On my car the kph is on the inside
>> and it is in red so that it does not distract (I think) this was not
>> helpful to me when I drove it for 9 months on the continent a few years
>> ago and could not make out the speed at night.
>
>Ouch.
>

No worries my wife can tell the speed blindfolded (Only half joking)

>>>More fun in your head is to convert the cost there to US dollars per US
>>>gallon....
>> 
>> If only the exchange rate would stay the same at the end of a journey as
>> it was at the beginning :)
>
>Well, yeah, that would be useful.  It was more stable when we were last 
>there.
>
>Still not favourable to us, though.
>
It works for us :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:50:31
Message: <48F657E7.4040802@hotmail.com>
On 15-Oct-08 1:08, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Oh, my observation is that in the US, odometers (distance measures in
>> the dashboard) read in tenths of miles, permanent signs are in halves
>> and quarters of miles (as in, "next exit 2 1/2 miles") and temporary
>> signs are in thousands of feet (as in "road construction 2000 feet").
> 
> What the F***

hmm, newsgroup rules here strongly discourage using such words. I know 
it is simply writing out loud WTF, but that is also on the edge of what 
can be allowed here and might stand for something different.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 16:59:26
Message: <sslcf4t8k12qe840u7qth2t986o0ketq7e@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:20:23 +0100, Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>
>LondonPovCon? Anything ever come of BrumPovCon? I'll keep my ears to the 
>ground, whichever.
>

No, it was more scary than Beirut in the 60's <ducks and runs>
I might be coming "Op North" for a while Warrington/Manchester and been talking
to Steve (St) about an Op North PovCon. Either that or a København/ Malmö
PovCon. 

>Haha, reminds me of a joke. The Lone Ranger and Tonto are riding across 
>the desert, when Tonto stops and puts his head to the dust.
>"Buffalo come," he intones.
>"That's amazing," says the Lone Ranger, "How can you tell?"
>"Ear stuck to ground."
>
>:-)

Reminds me of a joke. "What do you mean "we" white man?
PC rules :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:01:21
Message: <semcf45q9oaoqei87so75mf3fsal4ml0g6@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:16:22 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>
>Of course, space ships are just like ocean ships, so of course you use 
>military terms in space, yes? ;-)

Yes, unless its British space ships then its just like public school (or so they
tell me).
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:05:22
Message: <jnmcf4t9dqqut28uknops4jlkp24f7tanb@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:16:03 +0100, Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>
>Yup, SF vs sci-fi, sorry. Joe Haldeman's a favourite of mine, read any 
>of his? The Forever War is a particularly scintillating military-based 
>novel.
>

Me too

>> Of course, space ships are just like ocean ships, so of course you use 
>> military terms in space, yes? ;-)
>
>There's Klingons off the starboard bow, cap'n

It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead. 

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:17:11
Message: <9bncf45m4oc5aoh0h314lcp69s9uet0mh0@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:46:35 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>> That sounds a bit like snobbery to me.
>
>Why? I have seen quite a few skillful carpenters and constructors (or 
>whatever their job description is in English) in mechanical workshops 
>and I have simply never seen any indication that any size was more 
>special to them than others. So I think it is logical to assume that 
>anyone who thinks 40 is more basic than 33 is forcing himself to think 
>in numbers in stead of in materials.

I think that this is a cultural thing and I am guilty of being British.
Engineers and artisans are looked down on in the UK (but not on the Continent)
Reading it with British eyes it sounded to me as if you were being condescending
to "those with no relevant education and no skills in carpentry"  Anyway it is
(IMO) with what you are brought up with.

>Which is of course also a generalization from my own experience. I am an 
>extremely bad carpenter and that is one of the major reasons. Which 
>raises another interesting question: can you be snobbish towards yourself?

Oh yes and there is inverted snobery as well :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:21:05
Message: <gfncf4la025nn1qurn1ureik7rofu85gd3@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:17:04 +0100, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> wrote:

>Anyway it is
>(IMO) with what you are brought up with.

Depends on what you are brought up with. 
(My fingers are having a nervous breakdown. I'm using a Nordic keyboard mapped
to a UK one and my touch typing is not too good)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:24:03
Message: <6pncf4ht7n20p8m2270m34klfupjedq2ek@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:51:51 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>> 
>> What the F***
>
>hmm, newsgroup rules here strongly discourage using such words. I know 
>it is simply writing out loud WTF, but that is also on the edge of what 
>can be allowed here and might stand for something different.

Oh! That's what WTF means I thought it stood for When To F…

:-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:27:25
Message: <dtncf4hdigmfif81bhf7150bbcm4jbj2li@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:25:30 +0100, Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>
>I don't use them either, although that's partly because most models are 
>still more expensive than my car(!). 

Mine too! 

>But you're right, the signs aren't 
>just numerous, they're incredibly helpful, especially the way road 
>numbers are specified. :-)

Except for Cardiff. There are so many roundabouts and the signs are in both
English and Welsh I had to buy one because I was getting dizzy.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 17:57:30
Message: <48F6679B.80008@hotmail.com>
On 15-Oct-08 23:17, Stephen wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:46:35 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> 
>>> That sounds a bit like snobbery to me.
>> Why? I have seen quite a few skillful carpenters and constructors (or 
>> whatever their job description is in English) in mechanical workshops 
>> and I have simply never seen any indication that any size was more 
>> special to them than others. So I think it is logical to assume that 
>> anyone who thinks 40 is more basic than 33 is forcing himself to think 
>> in numbers in stead of in materials.
> 
> I think that this is a cultural thing and I am guilty of being British.
> Engineers and artisans are looked down on in the UK (but not on the Continent)

But at least we can agree on the managers, I hope.


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From: Bill Pragnell
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 18:08:01
Message: <48f669c1@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:25:30 +0100, Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom>
> wrote:
> 
>> I don't use them either, although that's partly because most models are 
>> still more expensive than my car(!). 
> 
> Mine too! 
> 
>> But you're right, the signs aren't 
>> just numerous, they're incredibly helpful, especially the way road 
>> numbers are specified. :-)
> 
> Except for Cardiff. There are so many roundabouts and the signs are in both
> English and Welsh I had to buy one because I was getting dizzy.

Lucky there was a GPS shop in the middle of a roundabout or you might 
still be there.


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From: Bill Pragnell
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 15 Oct 2008 18:09:01
Message: <48f669fd$1@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
>> LondonPovCon? Anything ever come of BrumPovCon? I'll keep my ears to the 
>> ground, whichever.
>>
> 
> No, it was more scary than Beirut in the 60's <ducks and runs>

I'll bring my railgun.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 00:49:48
Message: <9uhdf4p3fn7d1cqtin42ulb4amo9be4jvh@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:58:51 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>
>But at least we can agree on the managers, I hope.

In my experience, yes.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 00:53:12
Message: <35idf4ho996m25dkjg8p8unk0550vmd80n@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:58:28 +0100, Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>
>Lucky there was a GPS shop in the middle of a roundabout or you might 
>still be there.

Tell me about it!
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Doctor John
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 13:45:54
Message: <48f77dd2$1@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:16:03 +0100, Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom>
> wrote:
> 
>> Yup, SF vs sci-fi, sorry. Joe Haldeman's a favourite of mine, read any 
>> of his? The Forever War is a particularly scintillating military-based 
>> novel.
>>
> 
> Me too
> 
>>> Of course, space ships are just like ocean ships, so of course you use 
>>> military terms in space, yes? ;-)
>> There's Klingons off the starboard bow, cap'n
> 
> It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
> it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead. 
> 
Star Trekking across the Universe
Always going forward 'cos we can't find reverse

John

-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 14:58:48
Message: <48f78ee8$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:34:35 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 15 Oct 2008 15:52:07 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Well, hey, it's not my fault alcohol evaporates when transported
>>overseas. ;-)
>>
>>
> You need to keep the corks damp ;)

I think you'll find it's someone on your side of the pond that needed to 
do that. ;-)

>>> Yeah! It keeps your mind muscle fit.
>>
>>And that's a good thing to do.  The interesting thing is the tie between
>>physical fitness and mental agility
> 
> It well known that men used to fade away when they stopped working.

Yep.  But interesting even with my dad to see the change in his mental 
agility from before going for a walk and afterwards.

>> - some interesting studies done about
>>that in alzheimers' patients (my dad was one, so I used to read a lot
>>about it - and apparently there is a genetic predisposition for it, so
>>I've tried to keep up with the research).
> 
> Scary! It is one of my fears that I'll end up talking to the fairies
> when I'm old.
> Well talking out loud :)

Heh, I do that *now*. ;)

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 15:01:07
Message: <48f78f73$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:46:52 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 15 Oct 2008 15:53:26 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:25:07 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> government often re-brand companies
>>
>>Huh?  Over here, companies may rebrand, but the goverment doesn't do
>>that.  (We just give the failing ones money ;-) ).
>>
>>
> In living memory, the GPO (General Post Office) turned into the PO then
> Royal Mail and BT (British Telecom) which split off its mobile (cell)
> arm to O2 all changes needed rebranding. The telephone system changed
> its numbering so all companies had to reprint their headed papers and
> adverts. (London went from 01 to 071 for inner London and 081 for outer
> London then to 0171 and 0181 now it is 0207 and 0208)

Ah, *government* businesses, not businesses in general. ;-)

>>> enough for the bible then it's good enough for me, attitude) And Wales
>>> and parts of Scotland have dual language signs.
>>
>>True, hadn't thought about that.
>>
>>
> And why should you?

Because I have friends in Scotland and Wales as well - have been to 
Scotland but not Wales...Come to think, don't know that the guy from 
Wales is there any more.  Now I wonder where he did end up.

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 15:02:53
Message: <48f78fdd@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:25:30 +0100, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:25:01 +0100, Bill Pragnell wrote:
>> 
>>> Haha, not a hope, we're the most thoroughly nay exhaustively
>>> signposted country in the world.
>> 
>> Hey, now *that's* certainly true.  I didn't need a GPS to get where I
>> was going, and printed directions were no use to us - just knowing the
>> signs to look for got us around better than anything. :-)
> 
> I don't use them either, although that's partly because most models are
> still more expensive than my car(!). But you're right, the signs aren't
> just numerous, they're incredibly helpful, especially the way road
> numbers are specified. :-)

Yeah - the first couple times out I printed directions from 
maps.google.co.uk and got hopelessly lost.  I learned quickly that if I 
took those directions and just identified the next marker I needed to 
look for, it was a LOT easier to get around.

It is fairly counterintuitive to me that a map is a hinderance, but I 
can't argue with the results. ;-)

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 16 Oct 2008 15:04:34
Message: <48f79042$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:49:32 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>> I am contradicting you tonight :P.
>>
>>You are.  Stop it. ;-)
>>
>>
> OK
> (If you stop being wrong :)

Deal.  ;-)

>>> On my car the kph is on the inside
>>> and it is in red so that it does not distract (I think) this was not
>>> helpful to me when I drove it for 9 months on the continent a few
>>> years ago and could not make out the speed at night.
>>
>>Ouch.
>>
> No worries my wife can tell the speed blindfolded (Only half joking)

LOL, I know what you mean...

>>>>More fun in your head is to convert the cost there to US dollars per
>>>>US gallon....
>>> 
>>> If only the exchange rate would stay the same at the end of a journey
>>> as it was at the beginning :)
>>
>>Well, yeah, that would be useful.  It was more stable when we were last
>>there.
>>
>>Still not favourable to us, though.
>>
> It works for us :)

Only if you come over here.  So, when are you? ;-)

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: scott
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 02:42:17
Message: <48f833c9$1@news.povray.org>
> Yeah - the first couple times out I printed directions from
> maps.google.co.uk and got hopelessly lost.  I learned quickly that if I
> took those directions and just identified the next marker I needed to
> look for, it was a LOT easier to get around.
>
> It is fairly counterintuitive to me that a map is a hinderance, but I
> can't argue with the results. ;-)

Yup, most of the time for longish journeys on unfamiliar routes (before I 
got GPS) I would just write a list of 5-10 towns/cities that I needed to 
pass through.  If you get lost, you can just drive towards the centre of the 
town/city and you'll be sure there is a sign somewhere with one of the items 
on your list.  I found maps only helpful for the last few miles, where you 
were possibly driving through resedential areas or unsigned minor routes. 
Typically I would just print out a zoomed in version around a few miles of 
my destination.


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 09:40:52
Message: <vb5hf4hpuhp1eni1b381st63b3ihifie0i@4ax.com>
On 16 Oct 2008 14:58:48 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>> You need to keep the corks damp ;)
>
>I think you'll find it's someone on your side of the pond that needed to 
>do that. ;-)
>

And so they did but too late for you :)

http://www.brightonbottles.com/hamilton.jpg


>> Scary! It is one of my fears that I'll end up talking to the fairies
>> when I'm old.
>> Well talking out loud :)
>
>Heh, I do that *now*. ;)
>

So do I but think how much worse it will get :(
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 09:43:10
Message: <of5hf4984a0uekovdkoks5km1l6ulnnku6@4ax.com>
On 16 Oct 2008 15:04:34 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:49:32 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>>>> I am contradicting you tonight :P.
>>>
>>>You are.  Stop it. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>> OK
>> (If you stop being wrong :)
>
>Deal.  ;-)
>

Deal :)


>>>> If only the exchange rate would stay the same at the end of a journey
>>>> as it was at the beginning :)
>>>
>>>Well, yeah, that would be useful.  It was more stable when we were last
>>>there.
>>>
>>>Still not favourable to us, though.
>>>
>> It works for us :)
>
>Only if you come over here.  So, when are you? ;-)
>

When they stop hassling you at airports :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 09:44:03
Message: <dk5hf4hvs5imbc1o0l69pgaa9kc294gktg@4ax.com>
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:46:01 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

>>> There's Klingons off the starboard bow, cap'n
>> 
>> It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
>> it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead. 
>> 
>Star Trekking across the Universe
>Always going forward 'cos we can't find reverse

Fancy a 20 fl oz?
:)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Doctor John
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 15:49:40
Message: <48f8ec54$1@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:46:01 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
> 
>>>> There's Klingons off the starboard bow, cap'n
>>> It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim;
>>> it's worse than that, he's dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead. 
>>>
>> Star Trekking across the Universe
>> Always going forward 'cos we can't find reverse
> 
> Fancy a 20 fl oz?
> :)
Answer - Yes
Just trying to find a slot that doesn't conflict with work i.e. not
working the next day. Laphroaig plays havoc with the thinking processes :-)

John

-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 16:08:04
Message: <u3shf45t24vs69qs4iideclgooas4hfqi5@4ax.com>
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:49:50 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

>> Fancy a 20 fl oz?
>> :)
>Answer - Yes
>Just trying to find a slot that doesn't conflict with work i.e. not
>working the next day. 

I hate to suggest the weekend but I'm off to Renfrew on Monday for a course then
Copenhagen the week after.

>Laphroaig plays havoc with the thinking processes :-)

Just the opposite in my opinion ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Doctor John
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 16:16:10
Message: <48f8f28a@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:49:50 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
> 
>>> Fancy a 20 fl oz?
>>> :)
>> Answer - Yes
>> Just trying to find a slot that doesn't conflict with work i.e. not
>> working the next day. 
> 
> I hate to suggest the weekend but I'm off to Renfrew on Monday for a course then
> Copenhagen the week after.
> 
So when are you back? (I'm attacking the Estate Agents this w-e :-( )
>> Laphroaig plays havoc with the thinking processes :-)
> 
> Just the opposite in my opinion ;)
Depends what you're thinking about ;-)

John

-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 17:00:14
Message: <a4vhf495a2s3j4f0j39himb4bbqhqucq81@4ax.com>
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:16:20 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

>So when are you back? (I'm attacking the Estate Agents this w-e :-( )

Leave Monday back late Friday
Week after back Thursday. after that I don't know :(
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 21:48:59
Message: <48f9408b$1@news.povray.org>
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:40:49 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 16 Oct 2008 14:58:48 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>> You need to keep the corks damp ;)
>>
>>I think you'll find it's someone on your side of the pond that needed to
>>do that. ;-)
>>
>>
> And so they did but too late for you :)

Yeah, story of my life. ;-)

> http://www.brightonbottles.com/hamilton.jpg

Nice....

>>> Scary! It is one of my fears that I'll end up talking to the fairies
>>> when I'm old.
>>> Well talking out loud :)
>>
>>Heh, I do that *now*. ;)
>>
>>
> So do I but think how much worse it will get :(

I don't want to think about that.  :-)

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 21:50:08
Message: <48f940d0$1@news.povray.org>
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:42:17 +0200, scott wrote:

> I found maps only helpful for the last few miles,

This certainly is true - though even then I managed to find the hotel in 
Maidstone without that much detail - of course it helped that it was on a 
main road, probably would've been a bit different if I'd been trying to 
find a street address on one of those winding back roads.

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 17 Oct 2008 21:50:36
Message: <48f940ec@news.povray.org>
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:43:07 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>Only if you come over here.  So, when are you? ;-)
>>
>>
> When they stop hassling you at airports

Oh, good, because they don't hassle me at airports.  15 minutes, then? ;-)

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 18 Oct 2008 03:24:03
Message: <2o3jf453h1idcljvolqkl15homamfmh0hc@4ax.com>
On 17 Oct 2008 21:50:36 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:43:07 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>>>Only if you come over here.  So, when are you? ;-)
>>>
>>>
>> When they stop hassling you at airports
>
>Oh, good, because they don't hassle me at airports.  15 minutes, then? ;-)
>

Your passport must be a different colour to mine, then. :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 18 Oct 2008 21:18:01
Message: <48fa8ac9$1@news.povray.org>
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:24:00 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>Oh, good, because they don't hassle me at airports.  15 minutes, then?
>>;-)
>>
>>
> Your passport must be a different colour to mine, then. :)

Indeed it is, mine's blue. :-)  But you *did* say "when they stop 
hassling you at airports", and from your point of view, "you" is me. ;-)

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 19 Oct 2008 03:39:16
Message: <j0plf49005u1kdf0m4jfo3uhk9f9kfm945@4ax.com>
On 18 Oct 2008 21:18:01 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:24:00 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>>>Oh, good, because they don't hassle me at airports.  15 minutes, then?
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>
>> Your passport must be a different colour to mine, then. :)
>
>Indeed it is, mine's blue. :-)  But you *did* say "when they stop 
>hassling you at airports", and from your point of view, "you" is me. ;-)
>
Indeed! So when the American authorities stop asking for my credit card details,
a list of recent transactions and my inside leg measurement, I'll think about it
again :) 
There are quite a few things I'd like to see in RL.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 20 Oct 2008 10:55:53
Message: <48fc9bf9$1@news.povray.org>
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:39:16 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> Indeed! So when the American authorities stop asking for my credit card
> details, a list of recent transactions and my inside leg measurement,
> I'll think about it again

Well, just send it to me, and I'll take care of it. ;-)

> There are quite a few things I'd like to see in RL.

Same here....A few friends of mine just spent some time in Moab, UT, and 
having looked at some of the pictures, before I leave Utah, I need to go 
down there and see it for myself.

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 20 Oct 2008 18:13:05
Message: <v80qf4dpjf54thkb4adjmiqdsf4tarc9q3@4ax.com>
On 20 Oct 2008 10:55:53 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:39:16 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> Indeed! So when the American authorities stop asking for my credit card
>> details, a list of recent transactions and my inside leg measurement,
>> I'll think about it again
>
>Well, just send it to me, and I'll take care of it. ;-)
>

What! My inside leg measurement? Perv! :-)

>> There are quite a few things I'd like to see in RL.
>
>Same here....A few friends of mine just spent some time in Moab, UT, and 
>having looked at some of the pictures, before I leave Utah, I need to go 
>down there and see it for myself.
>

Driving to Glasgow tonight I listened to a programme on the BBC's R4 called
"Traveller's Tree" 
"With more flights being allowed to regional hub airports in North America this
year, tourism to the United States is expanding beyond the usual destinations.
Katie finds out about the hidden delights of small-town America and hears how an
extinct Arizona volcano is being transformed into the world's first celestial
visitor experience."

It might be interesting to use the listen again feature,
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 21 Oct 2008 14:25:47
Message: <48fe1eab@news.povray.org>
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:13:04 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 20 Oct 2008 10:55:53 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:39:16 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed! So when the American authorities stop asking for my credit
>>> card details, a list of recent transactions and my inside leg
>>> measurement, I'll think about it again
>>
>>Well, just send it to me, and I'll take care of it. ;-)
>>
>>
> What! My inside leg measurement? Perv! :-)

Well, it never hurts to ask.  OK, if you don't want to send me that, then 
just the CC info will be enough. ;-)

> Driving to Glasgow tonight I listened to a programme on the BBC's R4
> called "Traveller's Tree"
> "With more flights being allowed to regional hub airports in North
> America this year, tourism to the United States is expanding beyond the
> usual destinations. Katie finds out about the hidden delights of
> small-town America and hears how an extinct Arizona volcano is being
> transformed into the world's first celestial visitor experience."
> 
> It might be interesting to use the listen again feature,

URL?

Jim


Post a reply to this message

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:59:29
Message: <ohgsf49l96uamsomn3lr6j6l3nr3k44ns0@4ax.com>
On 21 Oct 2008 14:25:47 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:13:04 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>

>> What! My inside leg measurement? Perv! :-)
>
>Well, it never hurts to ask.  OK, if you don't want to send me that, then 
>just the CC info will be enough. ;-)
>

LOL It is ... (Do you think my head buttons up the back?) Don't answer that :)


>> 
>> It might be interesting to use the listen again feature,
>
>URL?
>
I can't give you a direct URL but go here and listen to "TRAVELLER'S TREE". It
will only be available for 7 days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml#t
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: Metric redux
Date: 1 Nov 2008 06:56:09
Message: <490c35c9$1@news.povray.org>
scott wrote:
> 
> I thought you still bought a pair of jeans as "33/34" or whatever?
> 

That's one bonus for jeans. In Finland most jeans also have
inch-measures (even though we are a metric country), but practically all
other trousers etc have totally baseless C50 oslt -coding (which does
mark the size, but at least I haven't found a single link to any kind of
measureability).

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
   http://www.zbxt.net
      aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid


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