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It's amazing what you can find out on teh interwebs...
For example, that plug you use to plug normal equipment into the
electricity grid. Apparently there's a name for it. It's called "BS
1363". (Memorable, eh?)
Similarly, the lead that almost all computers are powered by. The
connector on one end is a normal BS 1363. Apparently the connector at
the other end is known as "IEC 60320 C13". (And the matching socket is C14.)
And - the point of my research - that weird "clover leaf" plug that
certain laptops have. I always assumed it was proprietry. But no,
apparently that's "IEC 60320 C5". This information will make it
drastically easier for me to find a replacement lead for the spare
laptop here! ;-)
(I still have the half of the leaf with the transformer in it - and the
half that connects to the laptop itself. That's the hard part to
replace. But some visitor from America borrowed the other half, because
her laptop also had an IEC 60320 C6 socket, and I never got the lead back.)
Even more, apparently the rare 2-pin plug you see on some low-powered
stuff is IEC 60320 C7.
Check it out:
http://www.accesscomms.com.au/reference/IEC320.htm
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] dev null> a écrit dans le message de news:
48f3154d$1@news.povray.org...
> It's amazing what you can find out on teh interwebs...
>
> For example, that plug you use to plug normal equipment into the
> electricity grid. Apparently there's a name for it. It's called "BS 1363".
> (Memorable, eh?)
>
You mean normal for British Isles :-)
http://users.telenet.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm#plugs
You don't feel lonely?
BTW the BS1363 is very reliable, gives excellent contact and can pass high
power.
Marc
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m_a_r_c wrote:
> You mean normal for British Isles :-)
Well yeah, *obviously* everywhere that isn't the British Isles is
"abnormal". :-P
</sarcasm>
> You don't feel lonely?
Heh. Well we *are* almost the smallest and least significant country on
the face of the earth. :-/
All the manufacturing happens in other countries. All the brilliant
scientists and mathematicians are from other nations. All the most
significant inventions are from other countries. In fact, about our only
claim to fame - or even significance - is that once upon a time, we
ruled the world. (Or at least a large corner of it.) Kinda depressing, eh?
> BTW the BS1363 is very reliable, gives excellent contact and can pass high
> power.
Not something you think about every day - until you realise that less
civilised countries just use a plain metal stick so it's frighteningly
easy to pull out of the wall, plug in backwards, electrocute yourself
with by touching the pins while inserting/removing, insert random
objects into the socket, etc.
I guess it's like you don't realise how stringent UK health and safety
rules are until you see some pictures on the TV of workers in some
random country using blowtorches and angle grinders without any safety
equipment at all...
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> Not something you think about every day - until you realise that less
> civilised countries just use a plain metal stick so it's frighteningly
> easy to pull out of the wall, plug in backwards,
Hey, you can plug in mains stuff here (Germany) any way round you want and
everything still works!
> electrocute yourself with by touching the pins while inserting/removing,
> insert random objects into the socket, etc.
I read that by law every outlet in Germany must have an RCD device (compared
to only outdoor outlets in the UK), so it's pretty much impossible to injure
yourself. It's also kinda convenient to have outlets in the bathroom for
hairdryers, electric toothbrush chargers etc.
> I guess it's like you don't realise how stringent UK health and safety
> rules are until you see some pictures on the TV of workers in some random
> country using blowtorches and angle grinders without any safety equipment
> at all...
Saw a big 3-phase motor once, the supply cable was simply stripped back and
tied around the contacts on the motor! No cover, nothing.
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scott wrote:
>> Not something you think about every day - until you realise that less
>> civilised countries just use a plain metal stick so it's frighteningly
>> easy to pull out of the wall, plug in backwards,
>
> Hey, you can plug in mains stuff here (Germany) any way round you want
> and everything still works!
>
>> electrocute yourself with by touching the pins while
>> inserting/removing, insert random objects into the socket, etc.
>
> I read that by law every outlet in Germany must have an RCD device
> (compared to only outdoor outlets in the UK), so it's pretty much
> impossible to injure yourself.
Typically in the UK, the mains circuit, the socket *and* the plug all
contain fuses. (Although looking at Wikipedia, it appears that the
sockets are not "required" to do so. It's just that they always do.)
> It's also kinda convenient to have
> outlets in the bathroom for hairdryers, electric toothbrush chargers etc.
Yeah, some bathrooms have special "shaver" sockets which are weird 2-pin
connectors fused at 2A or something. Personally, I don't know about you,
but my bathroom is so tiny that you'd be just as well to go somewhere
else... ;-)
> Saw a big 3-phase motor once, the supply cable was simply stripped back
> and tied around the contacts on the motor! No cover, nothing.
o_O
That's cute.
OTOH, I sometimes wonder just how lethal this stuff is. For example, my
dad told me a story once. He had one of those electric bar heaters. It's
basically a coil of the cheapest unrefined steel wire, with many ampares
dumped through it until it glows red hot.
Anyway, one freezing winter's day, one of the coils snapped. Obviously
this broke the circuit. So my dad unplugged the heater and picked up the
ends of the coil and hooked them round each other. Then he turned the
device back on.
That worked for about 20 minutes, and then the ends unhooked.
Frustrated, my dad picked up the ends again... and then got up off the
floor and UNPLUGED THE HEATER before repeating this action. ;-)
So it seems putting 250 V through your hands isn't necessarily an
instant fatality like they tell you on TV.
OTOH, take a look at those overhead power lines. It's not so much that
the current involved might make your heart stop beating... it's more
that your body is liable to be transformed into an actual human crisp. ;-)
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> Typically in the UK, the mains circuit, the socket *and* the plug all
> contain fuses.
Fuses do not act fast enough to stop you getting a lethal dose of current.
That's why RCD devices are used.
> That worked for about 20 minutes, and then the ends unhooked. Frustrated,
> my dad picked up the ends again... and then got up off the floor and
> UNPLUGED THE HEATER before repeating this action. ;-)
Luckily I guess the shock disconnected him from the supply before any
serious damage was done, if, for some reason, the shock made him grip the
ends tighter then he would have likely died. I have seen several people who
"flick" the end of a wire to see if it is live or not. I think it's the
amount of time as well as the current, plus how well you are connected to
other stuff etc. PErsonally, I wouldn't want to risk it!
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:24:30 +0200, "scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
>I have seen several people who
>"flick" the end of a wire to see if it is live or not.
It's always more exciting to stick your tongue to it. ;-)
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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
48f33dfe$1@news.povray.org...
>> Typically in the UK, the mains circuit, the socket *and* the plug all
>> contain fuses.
>
> Fuses do not act fast enough to stop you getting a lethal dose of current.
> That's why RCD devices are used.
>
It is not so a speed issue than a current issue.
If I don't mistake, RCD switches off if the difference between both wires
(which is assumed to be a leakage through a body for example) is higher than
30mA which is far less (typically around 500 x less) than the max current
that blows the fuse.
Marc
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Kyle wrote:
> It's always more exciting to stick your tongue to it. ;-)
"Exciting" is one way to put it. :-P
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scott wrote:
> Fuses do not act fast enough to stop you getting a lethal dose of
> current. That's why RCD devices are used.
Maybe. Personally I'd prefer to avoid having to find out either way. ;-)
>> That worked for about 20 minutes, and then the ends unhooked.
>> Frustrated, my dad picked up the ends again... and then got up off the
>> floor and UNPLUGED THE HEATER before repeating this action. ;-)
>
> Luckily I guess the shock disconnected him from the supply before any
> serious damage was done.
Er, yeah.
The closest thing I've done it touch an electric fence. Jesus, no WONDER
the cattle stay the **** away from that thing! o_O
Of course, it isn't permanently live, it pulses. Was quite funny
watching the class idiot try this, actually. (This was on a different
day.) I walk up to the fence, briefly tap it, and loudly yell "oh, it's
not turned on". Class idiot saunters over and grips it. "Hey, no, it
isn't o-ho-HUGG!" Looked like somebody had just kicked him.
Ah, we really hated that guy...
> if, for some reason, the shock made him grip
> the ends tighter then he would have likely died. I have seen several
> people who "flick" the end of a wire to see if it is live or not. I
> think it's the amount of time as well as the current, plus how well you
> are connected to other stuff etc. PErsonally, I wouldn't want to risk it!
My dad has also been hit by lightning, FWIW.
Basically, the dude is unkillable! >:-D
(And I inherited his genes...)
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> For example, that plug you use to plug normal equipment into the
> electricity grid. Apparently there's a name for it. It's called "BS
> 1363". (Memorable, eh?)
The model used here is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> The model used here is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
I see. So you can't put your fingers behind the plug while plugging it
in without shearing your fingertips off. Well, that's another way to
solve that problem. ;-)
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>> The model used here is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
>
> I see. So you can't put your fingers behind the plug while plugging it in
> without shearing your fingertips off. Well, that's another way to solve
> that problem. ;-)
I don't know about Finland, but here in Germany only higher power/earthed
equipment uses the Schuko plug, for lower powered stuff usually the Europlug
is used (which also fits into the Schuko sockets fine of course).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug
You can buy multi-way mains extensions with sockets for combinations of
schuko and europlug, quite handy for eg an office because a lot of equipment
(phone chargers, laptop PSUs etc) uses Europlug and the sockets are much
smaller.
Also from that page above:
"It is, in principle, possible to insert a Europlug into a BS 1363 socket by
inserting another object (such as a screwdriver or key) into the earth hole
first."
:-)
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scott wrote:
> I don't know about Finland, but here in Germany only higher
> power/earthed equipment uses the Schuko plug, for lower powered stuff
> usually the Europlug is used (which also fits into the Schuko sockets
> fine of course).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug
Interesting. That looks rather like the plug you often find on electric
shavers here. (Some bathrooms have a suitable socket for such a thing.)
> You can buy multi-way mains extensions with sockets for combinations of
> schuko and europlug, quite handy for eg an office because a lot of
> equipment (phone chargers, laptop PSUs etc) uses Europlug and the
> sockets are much smaller.
Now, see, in the UK, *everything* comes with a single type of plug, and
*all* sockets are of a single type. (The only real exception being
shavers. And these invariably come with an adaptor plug.)
> Also from that page above:
>
> "It is, in principle, possible to insert a Europlug into a BS 1363
> socket by inserting another object (such as a screwdriver or key) into
> the earth hole first."
>
> :-)
I am *so* not trying that! :-/
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> Now, see, in the UK, *everything* comes with a single type of plug, and
> *all* sockets are of a single type. (The only real exception being
> shavers. And these invariably come with an adaptor plug.)
Oh I forgot, we also have this type in Germany too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CEE_7-17_plug.jpg
It is for higher current devices that don't need Earth (eg hairdryers), fits
in the Schuko socket but the plug is not as big.
> I am *so* not trying that! :-/
It was an emergency, my laptop needed to be recharged!
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scott wrote:
>> Now, see, in the UK, *everything* comes with a single type of plug,
>> and *all* sockets are of a single type. (The only real exception being
>> shavers. And these invariably come with an adaptor plug.)
>
> Oh I forgot, we also have this type in Germany too:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CEE_7-17_plug.jpg
Looks pretty much identical to me...
>> I am *so* not trying that! :-/
>
> It was an emergency, my laptop needed to be recharged!
Um, noooo... the "emergency" is when you arrive at A&E with a heart that
isn't beating any more. ;-)
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Invisible wrote:
> scott wrote:
>>> Now, see, in the UK, *everything* comes with a single type of plug,
>>> and *all* sockets are of a single type. (The only real exception
>>> being shavers. And these invariably come with an adaptor plug.)
>>
>> Oh I forgot, we also have this type in Germany too:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CEE_7-17_plug.jpg
>
> Looks pretty much identical to me...
>
>>> I am *so* not trying that! :-/
>>
>> It was an emergency, my laptop needed to be recharged!
>
> Um, noooo... the "emergency" is when you arrive at A&E with a heart that
> isn't beating any more. ;-)
Whereupon they connect you to a massive electrical kick. :-)
--
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei
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Doctor John wrote:
>> Um, noooo... the "emergency" is when you arrive at A&E with a heart that
>> isn't beating any more. ;-)
>
> Whereupon they connect you to a massive electrical kick. :-)
Massive and very carefully timed. ;-)
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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> I don't know about Finland, but here in Germany only higher power/earthed
> equipment uses the Schuko plug, for lower powered stuff usually the Europlug
> is used (which also fits into the Schuko sockets fine of course).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug
Yeah, those are common here too. Depends on the device. Things like
PSU powercords and extension cords invariably use Schuko. Smaller devices
use the europlug.
I assume it's about the same as in Germany. After all, lots of electrical
devices are imported here from there (and I assume in some cases the other
way around too).
--
- Warp
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > Oh I forgot, we also have this type in Germany too:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CEE_7-17_plug.jpg
> Looks pretty much identical to me...
It has no ground connectors and is smaller.
--
- Warp
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>> Looks pretty much identical to me...
>
> It has no ground connectors and is smaller.
Ah, OK. You can't really tell the scale from the image...
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:48f33a4b$1@news.povray.org...
>
> So it seems putting 250 V through your hands isn't necessarily an instant
> fatality like they tell you on TV.
>
Through your hands, no. Through othe parts of your body, maybe.
I've been zapped by mains current once (240V, SA standard). I was trying to
remove the network cable from a server (10-base-2, coax), and as I turned it
to unplug it, my wrist brushed against the power cable, which was missing
insulation right at that point.
Next thing I was sitting with my back to the wall of the server cupboard
(1/2 a metre from the server)
I'd been resting elbows on the floor of the cupboard, so the current only
flowed wrist to elbow, but I couldn't write or type properly for a short
while afterwards.
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Gail wrote:
> Through your hands, no. Through othe parts of your body, maybe.
You would have thought holding the two halves in either hand, there'd be
a rather high chance of the current crossing your chest cavity... hell
*I* wouldn't like to try it!
> I've been zapped by mains current once (240V, SA standard). I was trying
> to remove the network cable from a server (10-base-2, coax), and as I
> turned it to unplug it, my wrist brushed against the power cable, which
> was missing insulation right at that point.
> Next thing I was sitting with my back to the wall of the server cupboard
> (1/2 a metre from the server)
>
> I'd been resting elbows on the floor of the cupboard, so the current
> only flowed wrist to elbow, but I couldn't write or type properly for a
> short while afterwards.
I bet that hurt! o_O
Actually, come to think of it, there *was* that time I was trying to
figure out why mum's electric shower wasn't working properly. I took the
cover off and had a look at the circuit board. I couldn't see anything
wrong with it. Of course, all circuit boards run at a mere 5V, so it's
quite safe to touch even thAAAAAARGH!!!! >_<
I guess standing in a fiberglass bath tub saved me. It hurt quite a bit
though. (I mean, it stopped hurting as soon as I let go, but I nearly
headbutted the wall!)
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:48f3154d$1@news.povray.org...
> It's amazing what you can find out on teh interwebs...
>
> For example, that plug you use to plug normal equipment into the
> electricity grid. Apparently there's a name for it. It's called "BS 1363".
> (Memorable, eh?)
We use both of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M_plug.jpg,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C_plug.jpg
It's irritating, as the two require different sockets and so people tend to
have a number of convertors lying around to allow the 2-pins to be used. All
the wall sockets are for the 3-pin only.
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Invisible wrote:
>
> Not something you think about every day - until you realise that less
> civilised countries just use a plain metal stick so it's frighteningly
> easy to pull out of the wall, plug in backwards, electrocute yourself
> with by touching the pins while inserting/removing, insert random
> objects into the socket, etc.
>
Heh, that's not a jab at the U.S. style plugs, is it? Our wall sockets
are just the right size for a determined toddler armed with only a
screwdriver to, err, well ... That's why we invented any number of
different solutions to prevent determined toddlers armed with
screwdrivers from sticking the end of the screwdriver in the appropriate
slot and causing a simultaneous power and life failure. :)
So, can't a kid stick something metallic in a British design socket?
> I guess it's like you don't realise how stringent UK health and safety
> rules are until you see some pictures on the TV of workers in some
> random country using blowtorches and angle grinders without any safety
> equipment at all...
I remember on a cruise to Mexico, they were working on fixing the pier,
they had run out to their power tools, above the salty water, what
looked like a pair of wires, twisted together at some points to extend
it. OSHA would have had a field day with their utter lack of regard for
basic electrical safety.
--
~Mike
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Looks pretty much identical to me...
> >
> > It has no ground connectors and is smaller.
> Ah, OK. You can't really tell the scale from the image...
(Of course "smaller" meant "smaller in volume". Naturally the round part
has the same radius.)
--
- Warp
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scott wrote:
>
> Saw a big 3-phase motor once, the supply cable was simply stripped back
> and tied around the contacts on the motor! No cover, nothing.
>
My favorite are the 3-phase plugs. I had one hell of a time trying to
unplug one, until someone walked up, twisted the plug and pulled it
right out.
Reminds me of the test bench we had set up once. 3-phase from the
wall-socket, neutral screwed to a big steel plate, and 3 phases into
breakers, all nice and well exposed. Some guy from a vendor was out
trying to diagnose some problems we were having with the bus and
electronics on the test rack actually jammed his screwdriver straight
into the contact of one of the phases. That had to hurt :/ Then after he
got jolted pulled out his multimeter to see why the ground plate was
"hot" I just told him he should be more careful when he's holding long
metal objects around hot electrical stuff.
Man, I miss working at the equipment division sometimes. :)
--
~Mike
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Invisible wrote:
> OTOH, take a look at those overhead power lines. It's not so much that
> the current involved might make your heart stop beating... it's more
> that your body is liable to be transformed into an actual human crisp. ;-)
Somewhere on Youtube there's a video of a backhoe making contact with a
(I think) 15kv overhead line. Needless to say, the backhoe was no more.
--
~Mike
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scott wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug
We use those (or used to) for some devices but most have this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Australian_dual_switched_power_point.jpg
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Invisible wrote:
> That worked for about 20 minutes, and then the ends unhooked.
> Frustrated, my dad picked up the ends again... and then got up off the
> floor and UNPLUGED THE HEATER before repeating this action. ;-)
As a kid, about 5, for some reason still unknown to me today, I got it
in my head that I should unplug the clock that was on top of a dresser,
so I crawled underneath the furniture, grabbed the plug, slid my fingers
behind it to get more leverage, and >Thump< a nice 110V hit. From that
day forward, I've had a very healthy respect for electricity. But, no. I
wouldn't recommend anyone make contact with live wires. It's just asking
for a trip to the morgue.
--
~Mike
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Gail wrote:
> Next thing I was sitting with my back to the wall of the server cupboard
Wow. I'm glad we only use half the voltage here. I've been shocked a few
times in the US, and while it leaves you shaking a bit, I can't imagine
it being bad enough to knock you down. I mean, I wouldn't want to repeat
the experience, it's like stubbing your toe: not especially dangerous.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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Mike Raiford wrote:
>> Not something you think about every day - until you realise that less
>> civilised countries just use a plain metal stick so it's frighteningly
>> easy to pull out of the wall, plug in backwards, electrocute yourself
>> with by touching the pins while inserting/removing, insert random
>> objects into the socket, etc.
>
> Heh, that's not a jab at the U.S. style plugs, is it?
Nooo, at at all... </sarcasm>
> Our wall sockets
> are just the right size for a determined toddler armed with only a
> screwdriver to, err, well ... That's why we invented any number of
> different solutions to prevent determined toddlers armed with
> screwdrivers from sticking the end of the screwdriver in the appropriate
> slot and causing a simultaneous power and life failure. :)
Hmm. It's like natural selection, but backwards: the kids who get bored
quickly enough don't figure out how to do it and survive to reproduce! :-D
> So, can't a kid stick something metallic in a British design socket?
Nope. As the Wikipedia article explains, there are sprung-loaded plastic
covers that only move out of the way as the earth pin is inserted.
So you'd actually need *two* pointy things - one to poke the earth
socket, and another metallic object to insert into the live socket. Oh,
and some coordination. I'm sure if you try hard enough you can kill
yourself, but seriously... ;-)
(Interestingly, Wikipedia also points out that the "safety covers" you
can commonly buy are actually ideal for opening the pins so you can kill
yourself. Neat, eh?)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> As a kid, about 5, for some reason still unknown to me today, I got it
> in my head that I should unplug the clock that was on top of a dresser,
> so I crawled underneath the furniture, grabbed the plug, slid my fingers
> behind it to get more leverage, and >Thump< a nice 110V hit. From that
> day forward, I've had a very healthy respect for electricity. But, no. I
> wouldn't recommend anyone make contact with live wires. It's just asking
> for a trip to the morgue.
[Another safety feature of the BS1363: partially insulated pins. You'd
need very thin fingers to touch live by the time it's inserted far
enough to make contact...]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Somewhere on Youtube there's a video of a backhoe making contact with a
> (I think) 15kv overhead line. Needless to say, the backhoe was no more.
If you can think of it, it's probably on YouTube.
I heard some guy has one of those mains grid transformers in a shed at
the end of his garden. (I don't know how common this is in other parts
of the world, but it's not "rare" in the UK.) Apparently one day the
whole street lost power, and this shed looked "like the 5th of
November". Apparently when the power company finally turned of the
circuit, there was a bit of a crater.
Damn, I would *not* want to be around that crap! o_O
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Darren New wrote:
> Wow. I'm glad we only use half the voltage here. I've been shocked a few
> times in the US, and while it leaves you shaking a bit, I can't imagine
> it being bad enough to knock you down. I mean, I wouldn't want to repeat
> the experience, it's like stubbing your toe: not especially dangerous.
...which reminds me of the time I stood on an upturned BS1363 plug,
barefoot.
Trust me, it hurt.
It hurt *almost* as much as a split second later, when I grabbed a
red-hot gas fire griddle to support myself as I hopped around in pain.
I had a griddle pattern on the skin of my hand for, like, a month after
that...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Nope. As the Wikipedia article explains, there are sprung-loaded plastic
> covers that only move out of the way as the earth pin is inserted.
Is it guaranteed that the difference in potential between the earth pin
and the physical ground is always very close to zero?
Because AFAIK there may be surprisingly large potential differences
between the earth pins of neighboring buildings at some places.
--
- Warp
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
> Hmm. It's like natural selection, but backwards: the kids who get bored
> quickly enough don't figure out how to do it and survive to reproduce! :-D
>
That explains a lot, actually ... :)
>> So, can't a kid stick something metallic in a British design socket?
>
> Nope. As the Wikipedia article explains, there are sprung-loaded plastic
> covers that only move out of the way as the earth pin is inserted.
Sounds similar to what we have installed over our plugs. Essentially,
you have to slid the cover over as you plug something in. The drawback
is if you have older plugs that don't hold firmly, the plugged-in device
will slip out.
> So you'd actually need *two* pointy things - one to poke the earth
> socket, and another metallic object to insert into the live socket. Oh,
> and some coordination. I'm sure if you try hard enough you can kill
> yourself, but seriously... ;-)
Ah, so only the most determined toddlers with a good bit of hand-eye
coordination, and manual dexterity will be successful.
--
~Mike
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Warp wrote:
> Is it guaranteed that the difference in potential between the earth pin
> and the physical ground is always very close to zero?
>
> Because AFAIK there may be surprisingly large potential differences
> between the earth pins of neighboring buildings at some places.
I'm not an electrical engineer, so I couldn't say. I do know that on
many appliances the earth pin is physically connected to the metal
chasis of the appliance, so I *hope* it's similar to the
surroundings...! o_O
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> Hmm. It's like natural selection, but backwards: the kids who get
>> bored quickly enough don't figure out how to do it and survive to
>> reproduce! :-D
>
> That explains a lot, actually ... :)
Hmm... how depressing! :-S
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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> "It is, in principle, possible to insert a Europlug into a BS 1363
> socket by inserting another object (such as a screwdriver or key) into
> the earth hole first."
>
> :-)
Back on my holidays in Ireland I've just used the native plug of some
hotel room equipment upside down :) Then jammed the europlug in the
mains holes.
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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:48f38551@news.povray.org...
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Nope. As the Wikipedia article explains, there are sprung-loaded plastic
>> covers that only move out of the way as the earth pin is inserted.
>
> Is it guaranteed that the difference in potential between the earth pin
> and the physical ground is always very close to zero?
>
> Because AFAIK there may be surprisingly large potential differences
> between the earth pins of neighboring buildings at some places.
When I was at university, there was a noticable potential difference between
the earth pins on different floors of the same building. It played hell with
the coax network cable...
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:48f381e2$1@news.povray.org...
> Gail wrote:
>> Next thing I was sitting with my back to the wall of the server cupboard
>
> Wow. I'm glad we only use half the voltage here. I've been shocked a few
> times in the US, and while it leaves you shaking a bit, I can't imagine it
> being bad enough to knock you down.
It didn't really. I was sitting on the floor fiddling with the server. It
knocked me back about half a metre
When I said server cupboard, I meant it. It was a 'room' about 2.5 m long
and just over 1 m wide
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Gail wrote:
> When I said server cupboard, I meant it. It was a 'room' about 2.5 m
> long and just over 1 m wide
Gee, that sounds just like *my* server room...! o_O
Tell me, is it also freezing cold in there?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> ...which reminds me of the time I stood on an upturned BS1363 plug,
> barefoot.
>
> Trust me, it hurt.
>
> It hurt *almost* as much as a split second later, when I grabbed a
> red-hot gas fire griddle to support myself as I hopped around in pain.
>
> I had a griddle pattern on the skin of my hand for, like, a month after
> that...
>
...
Dear god.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> ...
>
> Dear god.
...and *then* everybody was mad at me for yelling my head off at, like,
6 AM on a Sunday. O_O
I mean hell, if you spiked your foot and then burned your hand, would
*you* care what time of day it is???
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:26:05 +0200, "Gail" <gail (at) sql in the wild (dot) co
[dot] za> wrote:
>
>"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
>news:48f381e2$1@news.povray.org...
>> Gail wrote:
>>> Next thing I was sitting with my back to the wall of the server cupboard
>>
>> Wow. I'm glad we only use half the voltage here. I've been shocked a few
>> times in the US, and while it leaves you shaking a bit, I can't imagine it
>> being bad enough to knock you down.
>
>It didn't really. I was sitting on the floor fiddling with the server. It
>knocked me back about half a metre
You probably threw yourself back and it wasn't the electric shock. Working in
the business I have had more shocks than I can remember from 110 Vac tingles to
a 660 Vac wallop from a 3 phase distribution board. The most painful was when a
loose strand of wire pricked my finger with the power off and I hurt my hand
against the case getting it out of there. I knew the power was off but try
telling that to your reactions :)
I once got a 500 Vdc belt that lifted my feet off the ground even though I was
standing on a rubber mat and wearing insulating boots. As we all know ac throws
you off and dc makes you grab on so it was a reaction that made me jump
incidentally breaking the contact with the supply. It sure does waken you up ;)
Here are a couple of tips for everyone when working on live equipment. Wear
insulating footwear and keep one hand in your pocket. That way the current is
less likely to find a path through your body.
Incidentally when you see medics using that "Stand Clear, Stand Clear" electric
defibrillator. They are not starting the heart but stopping it. Think on :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> Incidentally when you see medics using that "Stand Clear, Stand Clear" electric
> defibrillator. They are not starting the heart but stopping it. Think on :)
It's like rebooting a computer. Gotta shut it down to make it start back
up again in normal working order. ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> Nope. As the Wikipedia article explains, there are sprung-loaded plastic
>> covers that only move out of the way as the earth pin is inserted.
>
> Is it guaranteed that the difference in potential between the earth pin
> and the physical ground is always very close to zero?
The Earth wires in your house (in the UK at least) are connected to the
physical ground at your house, usually by being connected to the mains water
pipe or some similar big lump of metal in the ground. So I don't think
there can be much of a difference, there is probably some building standard
that gives limits on the resistance. I assume these limits are set so that
any potentially dangerous Earth voltage would result in the current in the
defective device blowing a fuse.
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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >> Nope. As the Wikipedia article explains, there are sprung-loaded plastic
> >> covers that only move out of the way as the earth pin is inserted.
> >
> > Is it guaranteed that the difference in potential between the earth pin
> > and the physical ground is always very close to zero?
>
> The Earth wires in your house (in the UK at least) are connected to the
> physical ground at your house, usually by being connected to the mains water
> pipe or some similar big lump of metal in the ground. So I don't think
> there can be much of a difference, there is probably some building standard
> that gives limits on the resistance. I assume these limits are set so that
> any potentially dangerous Earth voltage would result in the current in the
> defective device blowing a fuse.
I’ve seen them connected to plastic water pipes and a fat lot of good that would
do :)
In new builds you will often find a metal rod driven into the ground as an
earthing electrode.
--
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> I’ve seen them connected to plastic water pipes and a fat lot of good that would
> do :)
Isn't that illegal?
> In new builds you will often find a metal rod driven into the ground as an
> earthing electrode.
"I think having a lightning conductor on a church represents an
extrodinary lack of faith."
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