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I'm thinking of a system upgrade. It's been a while since I've shopped
computers. Dell has a discount deal with the company (I wished I had
known this when I bought my wife's laptop ... I literally found out the
day after I pushed the "purchase" button) So, I start specing a system.
When greeted with the processor options, I found something drool-worthy.
Core 2 Quad. O.o (!!)
[Mmmmm, thinking very pleasant thoughts of POV 3.7 and this machine.]
Speced out with everything except the video card, it's less than $600
(!!!) I'll have to get the card I want separately, though.
I'm wondering how it'll fare in terms of gaming performance, and
photoshop performance (the only other big CPU soaking things I do)
I'm planning on installing a mid-level DX10 GeForce card into it for my
gaming pleasure (something that *might* run flight sim decently)
--
~Mike
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:08:47 -0500, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm thinking of a system upgrade. It's been a while since I've shopped
>computers. Dell has a discount deal with the company (I wished I had
>known this when I bought my wife's laptop ... I literally found out the
>day after I pushed the "purchase" button) So, I start specing a system.
>When greeted with the processor options, I found something drool-worthy.
>Core 2 Quad. O.o (!!)
I'm doing something similar, but piecing it together instead. We get a discount from
Dell too, but I couldn't find any Dell machine that I thought was a good starting
point. I keep adding nicer and
nicer parts though. I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
+ Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
+ Asus P5Q-E motherboard
+ 4GB PC8500 DDR2 memory
+ GeForce 9800 GT video card
+ Antec 300 case
+ 2x 500GB hard drives
+ 22" Samsung LCD
+ ...
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Kyle wrote:
> I keep adding nicer and
> nicer parts though. I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
>
> + Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
> + Asus P5Q-E motherboard
> + 4GB PC8500 DDR2 memory
> + GeForce 9800 GT video card
> + Antec 300 case
> + 2x 500GB hard drives
> + 22" Samsung LCD
> + ...
I did that once - but with HP servers.
"Hmm, OK, so I'll take 32 Quad-Xeon CPUs, 64 GB RAM, 16-element RAID
array..."
Obviously, the price tag ended up at something absurd like £80,000.
(Mind you, I think that includes HP-UX, so it's probably a bagin.)
More recently I did a similar thing with Apple. I mean, a "basic" Mac
starts at over £1k anyway. (IOW, Apple don't do "basic".) But just for
fun, I took a PowerMac and put all the best options on it - 2x
Quad-Xeons at the highest clock rate, lots of RAM, etc. It came out...
expensive, oddly enough. :-D
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:42 -0400, Kyle <hob### [at] gate net> wrote:
> I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
Speaking of which, anyone running the 64-bit version of Vista? I'm concerned about
any compatibility nightmares with 32-bit apps.
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Kyle wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:08:47 -0500, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of a system upgrade. It's been a while since I've shopped
>> computers. Dell has a discount deal with the company (I wished I had
>> known this when I bought my wife's laptop ... I literally found out the
>> day after I pushed the "purchase" button) So, I start specing a system.
>> When greeted with the processor options, I found something drool-worthy.
>> Core 2 Quad. O.o (!!)
>
> I'm doing something similar, but piecing it together instead. We get a discount
from Dell too, but I couldn't find any Dell machine that I thought was a good starting
point. I keep adding nicer and
> nicer parts though. I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
>
> + Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
> + Asus P5Q-E motherboard
> + 4GB PC8500 DDR2 memory
> + GeForce 9800 GT video card
> + Antec 300 case
> + 2x 500GB hard drives
> + 22" Samsung LCD
> + ...
>
>
That sounds strangely like the one I just built.
Intel Core2 8400
ASUS P5Q-Pro
4GB PC8500
Sapphire 3850 512MB DDR3
Antec Sonata III case
2x 500GB
total ~$750
The P5Q-E is a nice board, I would have went with it except a deal made
it a $60 difference instead of the $20 difference it was when I was
first looking.
Tom
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Kyle nous illumina en ce 2008-09-30 10:58 -->
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:42 -0400, Kyle <hob### [at] gate net> wrote:
>
>> I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
>
> Speaking of which, anyone running the 64-bit version of Vista? I'm concerned about
any compatibility nightmares with 32-bit apps.
>
Vista 64 bits should run just about any 32 bits apps without problem. It's a
little bit like when windows 95 came out and most applications where still 16
bits...
Where you can have problem, is with drivers for some older periferals that won't
run in a 64 bits environment. If all your components are post 2007, you
should'nt have any problem.
This is based on the various repports I red about Vista 64.
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
You know you've been raytracing too long when you are compulsive, neurotic,
anti-social, paranoid and manic-depressive but basically happy.
Quietly Watching
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Mike Raiford wrote:
>
> I'm planning on installing a mid-level DX10 GeForce card into it for my
> gaming pleasure (something that *might* run flight sim decently)
>
Hmmm. No, no. that won't work. :(
After looking up the tech specs I built and priced, it turns out it's
PCIe 1x (16x seems to be the standard for just about any decent video
card) The next series up does have 16x (32x, I believe, actually), but
the price is closer to 1000. Still not a bad deal, but it means I'll be
holding off for a while before I put down the cash on that one.
In the meantime, I found a nice AGP card that will probably boost gaming
performance nicely using the Radeon 3850 chipset.
--
~Mike
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> After looking up the tech specs I built and priced, it turns out it's
> PCIe 1x (16x seems to be the standard for just about any decent video
> card) The next series up does have 16x (32x, I believe, actually), but
> the price is closer to 1000. Still not a bad deal, but it means I'll be
> holding off for a while before I put down the cash on that one.
>
> In the meantime, I found a nice AGP card that will probably boost gaming
> performance nicely using the Radeon 3850 chipset.
If you ever want 3D functionality in Linux, then be *very* careful
about your video card selections.
--
When you die, you lose a very important part of your life.
-- Brooke Shields
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawaz org<<<<<<
anl
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> Speaking of which, anyone running the 64-bit version of Vista? I'm
> concerned about any compatibility nightmares with 32-bit apps.
Running 64-bit Vista here on this machine. Haven't seen any compatibility
problems at all, and I've installed a fair amount of 32-bit stuff (actually
most of what I've installed is 32bit I'd guess).
As Alain said, check for the drivers of each part you plan to buy, check
that they offer a Vista-64bit version on their website otherwise there
*might* be a problem.
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:37:58 -0500, Mueen Nawaz <m.n### [at] ieee org> wrote:
> If you ever want 3D functionality in Linux, then be *very* careful
>about your video card selections.
That's one of the things that has now led me away from the ATI cards. The same can be
said for OpenGL support, ATI has not done it well. Plus, their Windows drivers are
now very bloated, I think due
to them being converted over to the .NET platform.
I haven't used an NVIDIA card personally, but have read good reviews regarding their
Linux and OpenGL support. What about their Windows drivers? Are they as bloated as
the ATI drivers?
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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> If you ever want 3D functionality in Linux, then be *very* careful
> about your video card selections.
Not worried about Linux at all. :)
Poor OpenGL support may be a minor concern, but seeing as the games I
primarily play are all DirectX, I'm not too worried. I don't use modeler
software very frequently, so OpenGL isn't that big of a deal.
--
~Mike
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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>> In the meantime, I found a nice AGP card that will probably boost gaming
>> performance nicely using the Radeon 3850 chipset.
>
> If you ever want 3D functionality in Linux, then be *very* careful
> about your video card selections.
>
I really want the quad-core, but I can't afford that right now. (at
least to get the PCIe bus width I'd need.)
But, eventually I'll upgrade.
--
~Mike
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> I haven't used an NVIDIA card personally, but have read good reviews
> regarding their Linux and OpenGL support. What about their Windows
> drivers? Are they as bloated as the ATI drivers?
>
I have used nVidia cards exclusively since 3Dfx died. I don't know how to
determine the "bloatness" of my video driver. I occasionally install the
latest update if a game/program requires it, but apart from that I don't
even notice it on my system (I wouldn't even know where half the files it
installs are put!). It gives you a "nVidia control panel" thingy where you
can change all the options, but that's pretty slick and does exactly what it
says.
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"Kyle" <hob### [at] gate net> wrote in message
news:5gf4e4prf7o7bqol9psmnvvplq6tef22vf@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:42 -0400, Kyle <hob### [at] gate net> wrote:
>
>> I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
>
> Speaking of which, anyone running the 64-bit version of Vista? I'm
> concerned about any compatibility nightmares with 32-bit apps.
>
Yes. 32 and 64 apps running fine. That's games, graphics stuff, dev stuff.
I've had no problems with apps at all.
Just watch for the drivers. Other place you may have problems is with a
firewall. I haven't yet found one that I trust for 64-bit Vista
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Mike Raiford wrote:
>> If you ever want 3D functionality in Linux, then be *very* careful
>> about your video card selections.
>
> Not worried about Linux at all. :)
>
> Poor OpenGL support may be a minor concern, but seeing as the games I
> primarily play are all DirectX, I'm not too worried. I don't use modeler
> software very frequently, so OpenGL isn't that big of a deal.
It's not just for games. If you want to run stuff like Compiz, you need
3-D support.
And frankly, I *do* play 3D games in Linux. Either using Wine, or just
plain Linux games. Not as famous as the Windows ones, but many require 3D.
--
... "All we are saying," "Is give pizza chants."
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawaz org<<<<<<
anl
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Gail wrote:
> Yes. 32 and 64 apps running fine. That's games, graphics stuff, dev
> stuff. I've had no problems with apps at all.
Good to know. I was just thinking about how I'm going to upgrade my
aging machine.
Has anyone used an XBox as a media center extender on Vista? I've still
got an N64 and a 15-year-old TV downstairs. Time to upgrade that too maybe.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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Kyle <hob### [at] gate net> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:08:47 -0500, Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm doing something similar, but piecing it together instead. We get a discount
from Dell too, but I couldn't find a
ny Dell machine that I thought was a good starting point. I keep adding nicer and
> nicer parts though. I'm up to about $1300 without an OS. :(
>
> + Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
> + Asus P5Q-E motherboard
> + 4GB PC8500 DDR2 memory
> + GeForce 9800 GT video card
> + Antec 300 case
> + 2x 500GB hard drives
> + 22" Samsung LCD
> + ...
I'm looking at a Samsung 22" SyncMaster 2243wm. What I love is the 1680x1050
resolution. I'm a LaTeX freak and for the first time I can see two 800x1000
portrait windows that show me the source and a full page that don't overlap.
The screen real estate at 1680x1050 just seems a huge improvement over 1280x1024
Jim.
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 06:01:24 EDT, "JimT" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>I'm looking at a Samsung 22" SyncMaster 2243wm. What I love is the 1680x1050
>resolution. I'm a LaTeX freak and for the first time I can see two 800x1000
>portrait windows that show me the source and a full page that don't overlap.
>
>The screen real estate at 1680x1050 just seems a huge improvement over 1280x1024
That looks like a nice LCD. I was originally looking at the Samsung T220, but based
on reviews at CNET, I'm now considering something different. Perhaps the Dell
SP2208WFP, which they rank quite
high.
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> I'm looking at a Samsung 22" SyncMaster 2243wm. What I love is the
> 1680x1050
> resolution. I'm a LaTeX freak and for the first time I can see two
> 800x1000
> portrait windows that show me the source and a full page that don't
> overlap.
Check that you can return the monitor if you have dead/bright pixels (or at
least check it before you hand over the cash). I got two Samsungs recently
and they both had bright pixels quite near the center of the screen.
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JimT wrote:
>
> I'm looking at a Samsung 22" SyncMaster 2243wm. What I love is the 1680x1050
> resolution. I'm a LaTeX freak and for the first time I can see two 800x1000
> portrait windows that show me the source and a full page that don't overlap.
>
> The screen real estate at 1680x1050 just seems a huge improvement over 1280x1024
>
> Jim.
>
I have a similar Samsung 224bw, I think... very nice monitor. What I'm
loving is the workstation I'm on now: 2 Dell 22" side-by-side. Lovely
amount of screen real-estate.
--
~Mike
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"scott" <sco### [at] scott com> wrote:
> > I'm looking at a Samsung 22" SyncMaster 2243wm. What I love is the
> > 1680x1050
> > resolution. I'm a LaTeX freak and for the first time I can see two
> > 800x1000
> > portrait windows that show me the source and a full page that don't
> > overlap.
>
> Check that you can return the monitor if you have dead/bright pixels (or at
> least check it before you hand over the cash). I got two Samsungs recently
> and they both had bright pixels quite near the center of the screen.
It's a work PC, but I seem to have 1,764,000 functioning pixels.
JimT
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OK, so I popped in the AGP Radeon 3850 board, and a new 500W power
supply, because I knew the 320 watt that had been keeping my computer up
and running was woefully inadequate for the graphics card. The new
supply had a 24-pin ATX connector and my motherboard had a good ol'
classic 20 pin connector. From the looks of it, the 24-pin beastie was
designed to be "Universal" or so the manual states. Just line up the
litte locking lug thinamajig and good to go. Hook in the additional 12v
connector to the main board and connect the PCIe connector to the
graphics card. Only the board is 8 pin and the power supply is a 6 pin.
No problem, they have an adaptor that will connect to the board's 8 pin
to 2 molex connectors. Just get one from each molex-chain and I'll be
good to go. Flip the hard switch on the power supply (no smoke, yet...
that's a good sign!) and punch the "On" button on the front of the
computer. Success! It boots. Load up Vista, which has taken on the
default resolution, and the computer promptly locks hard.
Hmm. Not good.
Reboot, and ... Nothing! Really not good.
Fine, power down, make sure everything is seated well, and power up.
Nothing for a few seconds (pretty normal for this motherboard on a cold
boot) then I hear something from the speakers. So, I turn the speakers
up.... It's a scratchy, poorly sampled, female voice stating repeatedly
something that sounds astonishingly like "System failed CPU check"
Oh, crap! the new PSU fried the processor. crap crap crap. OK, maybe
it's something else. In desperation, I yank the plugs from the new PSU,
plug in the old PSU, and power up the computer. Same result. :( Double
not good. My face turned pale, my wife kept asking if there was anything
she could get me. "A new computer?"
Hmmm. Vexing. So, I put back in the old video card. Fire up the system,
same disheartening result. Auggh. Wife pulls up the dell site, and hands
me her card. "Just buy it" After arguing back and forth about purchasing
a computer we can't afford on HER credit card (our main emergency card)
I finally sit at her computer. As a last ditch, I keyed in Asus and the
audio message I was hearing. Someone made a post on a Quicken forum (of
all things) about forgetting to plug in the power supply to the video
card. Aha! I intentionally didn't plug it in in an effort to speed
things up when I put the old card in. So, I go back, plug it in and the
system boots. Now, why won't the new card work?
Swap in the new card. Notice that it's precariously close to my old HDTV
tuner that I haven't used since I finally bought a real HDTV. OK, that
card can go. New card seems to fit well, so I tie it down, plug the
power connectors in and hook up the new PSU. System boots.
I installed the drivers, and fired up Spore, which ran just fine. Nice
and smooth on the movies, too. Good. good. Run the little Vista
Experience test, and the system goes from 4 to 2.9 the Aero rating was a
2.9 Hmmm. Well, I knew there were problems with Vista and this
particular card, and handily ATI released a hotfix just for this
situation. Started that install and went to bed.
Woke up, did some finishing touches, ran spore again. The intro video to
the cell stage was glassy smooth. Niiice. Everything was definitely
smoother. Everything was automatically cranked to max, too, in the
settings dialog. Thanks for that :) Though it does expose the CPU bottle
neck, since it procedurally generates textures, creatures, buildings and
other things still have a basic color for a few seconds.
But, Spore was not the reason for this video card. Oh, no ... Spore only
requires DX9. I wanted it for something that supports DX10. FSX. So,
this morning I fired up FSX and cranked the sliders to medium-high, just
to see what it did and it ran .... reasonably well. Again, exposing some
of the bottle-necks expected on an aging AGP system.
I have yet to enable DX10 support... So, I'll have to try that later.
But I'm happy, if a little shaken by the whole installation nightmare.
In retrospect, "System failed CPU check" was probably "System failed
video check" ...
I much prefer the characteristic 2 long beeps followed by 4 short beeps.
I at least KNOW what that is, and it isn't subject to a subjective
interpretation of poorly sampled speech.
The good thing is, even with the GPU-hungry FSX my new power supply ran
as cool as can be.
--
~Mike
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"Mike Raiford" <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48e6119b$1@news.povray.org...
>
> But I'm happy, if a little shaken by the whole installation nightmare.
Not fun.
Worst I had was not seating the CPU properly then switching the machine on.
The system did nothing. No beeps, nothing on screen, zip.
>
> I much prefer the characteristic 2 long beeps followed by 4 short beeps. I
> at least KNOW what that is, and it isn't subject to a subjective
> interpretation of poorly sampled speech.
Do you, by any chance remember what a single beep signifies?
I'm getting it intermittently from one of my machines on startup.
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] san rr com> wrote in message
news:48e3a9aa$1@news.povray.org...
> Gail wrote:
>> Yes. 32 and 64 apps running fine. That's games, graphics stuff, dev
>> stuff. I've had no problems with apps at all.
>
> Good to know. I was just thinking about how I'm going to upgrade my aging
> machine.
I have however had problems with drivers, even ones that are supposed to
work on Vista 64.
Ever since I installed the wireless network card and drivers, my machine
frequently hangs on bootup. They're supposed to work, but I get the feeling
it was a half-done job for an older card.
> Has anyone used an XBox as a media center extender on Vista? I've still
> got an N64 and a 15-year-old TV downstairs. Time to upgrade that too
> maybe.
No. On my list of things to do is to 'persuade' the Xbox to talk to the
Server 2003 machine.
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Gail wrote:
> Do you, by any chance remember what a single beep signifies?
> I'm getting it intermittently from one of my machines on startup.
Depends on the motherboard. On most "modern" systems that don't have a
POST beep, it usually means the BIOS has a message on-screen. it could
be as simple as a keyboard error, or something like a message stating
the processor was overclocked too much (Yes-- I've seen it, no I didn't
overclock, I think CMOS memory got junked somewhere along the way.)
But, check with the OEM or board manufacturer for any codes.
Of course, on some systems there's a beep on start-up if everything is
fine.
--
~Mike
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Gail wrote:
> Ever since I installed the wireless network card and drivers, my machine
> frequently hangs on bootup.
Wireless seems to be a bugaboo for everyone, which is rather surprising
to me.
Interestingly (at least mildly so), my machine has been hanging trying
to log out, with some compute-bound process locking up for 2 or 3
minutes when I log out. I finally got around to replacing a failing DVD
drive, and all of a sudden, it's not failing again. I wonder how much of
the "My Windows slows down over time" kind of complaint is just hardware
that's wearing out and causing hangs during retries in places where the
kernel really doesn't need to be waiting for retries.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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"Mike Raiford" <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48e63bfd$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Depends on the motherboard. On most "modern" systems that don't have a
> POST beep, it usually means the BIOS has a message on-screen. it could be
> as simple as a keyboard error, or something like a message stating the
> processor was overclocked too much (Yes-- I've seen it, no I didn't
> overclock, I think CMOS memory got junked somewhere along the way.)
The screen's black at the time, so no message
> But, check with the OEM or board manufacturer for any codes.
Intel board, intel processor.
I'll search their site, see if anything comes up. I should have the manual
for it somewhere.
> Of course, on some systems there's a beep on start-up if everything is
> fine.
This is intemittant, so...
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Gail wrote:
>
> Not fun.
> Worst I had was not seating the CPU properly then switching the machine
> on. The system did nothing. No beeps, nothing on screen, zip.
1999 oslt, I had just fried ~half of my summer-job payment to new
hardware (AMD K6-2 350MHz, MoBo, 128MiB SDRAM DIMM etc). I carefully
loaded the set to my case, checked everything and re-checked everything.
I flipped the switch and the light at the ceiling of the room came out.
That kind of... hmm.. freaked me out a bit.
--
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
http://www.zbxt.net
aer### [at] removethis zbxt net invalid
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A peace of advice:
1) You may want a 64-bit Windows, if u r gonna use Windows, on 4G system
since is a tricky business to get Windows XP/(maybe Vista) 32-bit to
recognize 3+ GB of RAM even 2+ GB 'coz of the PAE (Physical Address
Extension) support on motherboards and their ability to successfully
remap hardware addresses above the 4 GB limit and keep device drivers
still working properly.
2) Don't forget to buy memory modules in even pair(s) to enable
Dual-Channel and Dynamic Page mode on a Intel platform.
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Here's what I ordered today:
* Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
* Xigmatek HDT-S1283 CPU cooler
* Asus P5Q-E motherboard
* Corsair 4GB DDR2 800
* 2x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1TB 7200RPM drives (for RAID1 configuration)
* Asus EN9800GT video card
* Samsung 22X DVD burner
* Antec Three Hundred case
* Antec 850W power supply
* Samsung 2232BW+ 22" LCD
* Window Vista Ultimate 64-bit
It should be pretty sweet, so long as everything plays nice together. We'll see when
it all gets here...
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Kyle wrote:
> Here's what I ordered today:
>
> * Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
> * Xigmatek HDT-S1283 CPU cooler
> * Asus P5Q-E motherboard
> * Corsair 4GB DDR2 800
> * 2x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1TB 7200RPM drives (for RAID1 configuration)
> * Asus EN9800GT video card
> * Samsung 22X DVD burner
> * Antec Three Hundred case
> * Antec 850W power supply
> * Samsung 2232BW+ 22" LCD
> * Window Vista Ultimate 64-bit
>
> It should be pretty sweet, so long as everything plays nice together. We'll see
when it all gets here...
>
It looks like you are going to have a bit of fun ;-)
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:27:43 -0400, Tom Austin <taustin> wrote:
>
>It looks like you are going to have a bit of fun ;-)
>
I can take that comment both literally and sarcastically, as it will likely be true in
both instance. :-D
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:14:13 +0200, Kyle <hob### [at] gate net> wrote:
>
> * Antec Three Hundred case
I am not a big fan of the Three Hundred. It may look nice on the outside,
but it can be rather awkward when you actually try to mount things inside
it. Antec cases are usually good, but this one seems almost deliberately
poor.
--
FE
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