My mum has just sent me an email saying that the price of cheese (my 
favourite food) has gone up by 10% in the last week.





1 tonne of cheese.



the stuff, and I'm sure it doesn't include refrigerating it in the shop 
or any other overheads, but basically the price you pay is about 10x the 
price the shop pays. That's an impressive price difference...

Also, I was under the impression that *all* food prices have gone up. So 
my mum's comment that "you'd better start eating something else" seems a 
bit daft to me.

No doubt at some point somebody will blame all this on the credit 
crunch. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the 
"credit crunch" exists exactly because... everybody says it exists. If 
the world woke up tomorrow and everybody decided that the credit crunch 
was over and they were just going to act normal... there wouldn't be a 
problem any more.

If you think about it for a moment, it's quite amazing the power mankind 
how has to screw itself just by thinking about it. It only takes one 
news reporter to say "but don't panic-buy, there's plenty of fuel" and 
within hours every filling station in the land has been denuded of fuel. 
How powerful reverse psychology is! A crysis exists because somebody 
says so.

I think Mr Adams said it right, when he wrote "In summary, people are a 
problem."

In a more or less unrelated thread... Which is healthier? A cheese 
sandwich, or a packet of crisps?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Hmm, I very much doubt that 600 GBP per ton figure.  There's no way Asda 
could get away with a 10x markup, the other supermarkets would be charging 
62p/kg if they could buy it for 600 GBP/ton.  I suspect Asda are actually 
paying very close to what you pay for the cheese.

> In a more or less unrelated thread... Which is healthier? A cheese 
> sandwich, or a packet of crisps?

A low-fat cheese sandwich on brown bread isn't too bad, but I guess you can 
get some pretty healthy crisps nowadays too.  Look on the labels and work 
out how much you're eating of fat etc from each one.

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> 
> Hmm, I very much doubt that 600 GBP per ton figure.  There's no way Asda 
> could get away with a 10x markup, the other supermarkets would be 
> charging 62p/kg if they could buy it for 600 GBP/ton.  I suspect Asda 
> are actually paying very close to what you pay for the cheese.

Except that ASDA has to store the cheese in their warehouse, move it 
onto the shelves at the appropriate time, keep it refrigerated all the 
while (those big open-front refrigerators must be *so* inefficient!), 
pay for all their staff's wages, the lighting, rent on the building, 
etc. That's a hell of a lot of overhead, which all of their competetors 
also have.

Plus, as I say, I have no idea whether this figure includes transport, 
which can't be cheap and is also unavoidable cost...

>> In a more or less unrelated thread... Which is healthier? A cheese 
>> sandwich, or a packet of crisps?
> 
> A low-fat cheese sandwich on brown bread isn't too bad, but I guess you 
> can get some pretty healthy crisps nowadays too.  Look on the labels and 
> work out how much you're eating of fat etc from each one.

This amuses me. Given that cheese *is* fat, the very concept of "low-fat 
cheese" seems incongruous to me. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> Except that ASDA has to store the cheese in their warehouse, move it onto 
> the shelves at the appropriate time, keep it refrigerated all the while 
> (those big open-front refrigerators must be *so* inefficient!), pay for 
> all their staff's wages, the lighting, rent on the building, etc. That's a 
> hell of a lot of overhead, which all of their competetors also have.

Supermarkets also sell a hell of an amount of stuff each day.  Within the 
first few minutes of being open they probably have enough money to pay all 
their staff and rent the building for the day.  The rest goes towards 
actually buying the goods that they are then selling.  Supermarkets only 
make 3-4% profit, there is no way they could get away with a 10x markup on 
something basic like cheese.

Actually I just googled, and it turns out that the 600 GBP/ton figure you 
quote is actually the *increase* in cheese price.  It was also increased 
back in July by 300 GBP/ton.

> Plus, as I say, I have no idea whether this figure includes transport, 
> which can't be cheap and is also unavoidable cost...

How many kg of cheese can you fit on a truck?  How much does it cost to 
drive a truck across the country?  They manage to sell tins of beans for 19p 
so it can't be that much.

> This amuses me. Given that cheese *is* fat,

Even full-fat cheese is usually only 40-60% fat.  Low fat cheese is often 
around 20% fat.  Still a lot of fat when compared to other products.  IIRC 
you should aim to be eating around 100g of fat per day max.  Check the 
labels.

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scott wrote:
> Supermarkets also sell a hell of an amount of stuff each day.  Within 
> the first few minutes of being open they probably have enough money to 
> pay all their staff and rent the building for the day.

Really? As fast as that?

> The rest goes 
> towards actually buying the goods that they are then selling.  
> Supermarkets only make 3-4% profit, there is no way they could get away 
> with a 10x markup on something basic like cheese.

Well, it did seem odd to me.

> Actually I just googled, and it turns out that the 600 GBP/ton figure 
> you quote is actually the *increase* in cheese price.

Ah. That would be something completely different...

Any ideas what the *actual* price is then?

>> Plus, as I say, I have no idea whether this figure includes transport, 
>> which can't be cheap and is also unavoidable cost...
> 
> They manage to sell tins of beans for 19p so it can't be that much.

Mmm, that's true.

>> This amuses me. Given that cheese *is* fat,
> 
> Even full-fat cheese is usually only 40-60% fat.

Really? So what's the rest of it then?

> Low fat cheese is 
> often around 20% fat.  Still a lot of fat when compared to other 
> products.

I still remember buying a packet of Dairylee cheese and looking at the 
ingredients: "Cheese (22%)". Uh... so this "cheese" is only 22% cheese? 
WTF is the rest of it?!! o_O

(It turns out the rest is actually just margerine, which isn't so bad.)

> IIRC you should aim to be eating around 100g of fat per day 
> max.  Check the labels.

Probably.

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>> Supermarkets also sell a hell of an amount of stuff each day.  Within the 
>> first few minutes of being open they probably have enough money to pay 
>> all their staff and rent the building for the day.
>
> Really? As fast as that?

Tesco's turnover is 47.3 billion pounds and they employ 273028 people (from 
wikipedia).  Assume average salary of 7 pounds / hour and 24 hour opening, 
and it takes just 21 minutes of sales each day to pay the entire workforce.

> Any ideas what the *actual* price is then?

Funnily enough it doesn't seem to say on any article...  I found one that 
said it was 2000 per ton, but that was from a long time ago - maybe it's 
around 4000 now?

>> Even full-fat cheese is usually only 40-60% fat.
>
> Really? So what's the rest of it then?

Water?

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48ce3c25$1@news.povray.org...

>> Even full-fat cheese is usually only 40-60% fat.

>Really? So what's the rest of it then?

The dry matter content of milk is roughly 1/3 protein, 1/3 fat and 1/3 
sugars (+ some minerals). When making cheese, the sugars are mostly washed 
off in the whey, so what remains in the cheese is fat and protein, in 
variable proportion depending on the method.


G.

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And lo on Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:30:59 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> My mum has just sent me an email saying that the price of cheese (my  
> favourite food) has gone up by 10% in the last week.

 From what I recall profit-wise Tesco operates at about 4%, Sainsbury's at  
3%, Asda at 2%, and Lidl etc. at 1%. That's overall of course some  
products are higher than others.

> Also, I was under the impression that *all* food prices have gone up. So  
> my mum's comment that "you'd better start eating something else" seems a  
> bit daft to me.

While at the same time some supermarkets are advertising that they're  
lowering prices. Which as I believe I've mentioned elsewhere doesn't  
engender a feeling of warmth from me more so a query of why they couldn't  
do that when everything was 'cheaper'?

> No doubt at some point somebody will blame all this on the credit crunch.

Which is only tangentially true. It's the cost of fuel throughout the  
entire production chain from simply harvesting them through to transport  
and then onto storage costs. Then you have the fact that certain countries  
(such as China) have been increasing their demand for both fuel and  
certain food and demand begins to outstrip supply. In such times the  
response is to start growing more food except to do so normally requires  
seed money (if you'll pardon the pun) to buy the land etc. That would  
normally be provided by a bank who at the present time doesn't want to  
lend out any money.

> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the "credit  
> crunch" exists exactly because... everybody says it exists. If the world  
> woke up tomorrow and everybody decided that the credit crunch was over  
> and they were just going to act normal... there wouldn't be a problem  
> any more.

Yes, kind of. To simplify things down it's about confidence or the lack  
thereof. Previously if banks got into a bit of a problem and couldn't get  
help elsewhere they could turn to the Bank of England as the lender of  
last resort, which is one of its main purposes. However since Northern  
Rock, turning to the BoE is now depicted as a sign of weakness amid cries  
of "the bank is failing" which rapidly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  
Mix in a greater degree of scrutiny since NR, FannieMae and FreddieMac and  
all the banks are cleaning house and ensuring they have enough liquid  
assets to cover their own arses because they can't trust anyone to provide  
them with loans.

> If you think about it for a moment, it's quite amazing the power mankind  
> how has to screw itself just by thinking about it. It only takes one  
> news reporter to say "but don't panic-buy, there's plenty of fuel" and  
> within hours every filling station in the land has been denuded of fuel.  
> How powerful reverse psychology is! A crysis exists because somebody  
> says so.

Yes the recent fuel-tanker drivers strike demonstrates that nicely -  
petrol stations across the country had enough fuel to last it out until  
everyone decided to top up their tanks "just in case" and then acted smug  
when the stations did start to run out.

> I think Mr Adams said it right, when he wrote "In summary, people are a  
> problem."
>
> In a more or less unrelated thread... Which is healthier? A cheese  
> sandwich, or a packet of crisps?

As scott implies, this is a piece of string - too many variables.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

>  From what I recall profit-wise Tesco operates at about 4%, Sainsbury's 
> at 3%, Asda at 2%, and Lidl etc. at 1%. That's overall of course some 
> products are higher than others.

It would be interesting to know which items are their loss-leaders... ;-)

>> Also, I was under the impression that *all* food prices have gone up. 
> 
> While at the same time some supermarkets are advertising that they're 
> lowering prices. Which as I believe I've mentioned elsewhere doesn't 
> engender a feeling of warmth from me more so a query of why they 
> couldn't do that when everything was 'cheaper'?

I just find it interesting that shops of all kinds are *always* 
advertising that their prices are going down and down and down. So, 
like, why didn't you do this sooner? (And besides, as far as *I* can 
tell, the actual prices rise and fall more or less at random, and they 
only advertise the ones that have fallen. I'm surprised that's legal...)

> To simplify things down it's about confidence or the lack thereof.

Heh, and I thought that only *I* had serious issues due to lack of 
confidence. ;-)

> All the banks are cleaning house and 
> ensuring they have enough liquid assets to cover their own arses because 
> they can't trust anyone to provide them with loans.

I'm begining to wonder whether the banks' product is actually *money* or 
just *confidence*. :-P

> Yes the recent fuel-tanker drivers strike demonstrates that nicely - 
> petrol stations across the country had enough fuel to last it out until 
> everyone decided to top up their tanks "just in case" and then acted 
> smug when the stations did start to run out.

Does it worry anybody *else* here that when all the oil runs out in 10 
years' time, the nations of the world are basically going to have a 
global thermonuclear war over the rights to the last remaining few drops?

I mean, theoretically some alternative might be found. But let's face 
it, do you invest years in R&D? Or do you just bomb the hell out of the 
people who've got what you want? Gee, let me think...

I'm a little concerned that I'm likely to whitness the end of the world 
in my own lifetime. :-(

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> It would be interesting to know which items are their loss-leaders... ;-)

Usually very common items (bread etc), also usually placed at the back of 
the shop so that you have to be tempted by 31434 other items before you get 
there.

> I just find it interesting that shops of all kinds are *always* 
> advertising that their prices are going down and down and down.

Ermm yeh, it helps get people to go to that store rather than a competitor.

> So, like, why didn't you do this sooner? (And besides, as far as *I* can 
> tell, the actual prices rise and fall more or less at random, and they 
> only advertise the ones that have fallen. I'm surprised that's legal...)

Why? There's no law that says you have to advertise your entire product 
range or not at all.

> Does it worry anybody *else* here that when all the oil runs out in 10 
> years' time, the nations of the world are basically going to have a global 
> thermonuclear war over the rights to the last remaining few drops?

Long before oil actually runs out there are going to be cheaper 
alternatives.  Industries that are reliant on oil today will gradually shift 
as prices increase.

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