Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone here might have a clue how to solve the latest 
culprit my dad achieved with his laptop.

It's a Samsung with Vista installed. Some might say: See, Vista is the 
mistake. But a friend of mine has a laptop with Vista, and even though 
it's new design and handling isn't to the liking to some, it's been 
running smoothly for her ever since she got it. Heck, my MacBook crashed 
more often with it's new Leopard OSX installed than her Laptop!

Anyways, since the last automatic update on 24.8., its acting up. I can 
log on (PW and such), but right after that, the screen goes black, I get 
a moving cursor, but no more than that. The HD spins and rattles now and 
then, but I don't get a desktop.

Once this evening I DID get a desktop (that's how I found the last 
update to have taken place on the 24.) and ran an AntiVirus-Scan using 
AVG, but didn't find any. My dad was able to shut down AVG, but the 
Windows Update (which I had started in case Microsoft created a Hotfix 
for their buggy update, if that is indeed the problem) crashed the 
Laptop. So now I'm back to a black screen with a mouse I can move, but 
nothing to click on.

Safe mode et al yield the same black screen, just with "Safe Mode" 
printed in the corners. Still no Taskbar or Desktop Icons...

*sigh*

Regards,
Tim

Post a reply to this message

Tim Nikias wrote:
> Safe mode et al yield the same black screen, just with "Safe Mode" 
> printed in the corners. Still no Taskbar or Desktop Icons...
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Regards,
> Tim
You are not alone. A friend of mine has encountered the same problem on 
an Acer. As of this moment in time (don't you just hate that expression) 
we haven't found a solution. Any Win gurus out there?
TGIRL (Thank $DEITY I Run Linux)

John

-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

Post a reply to this message

Doctor John wrote:
> Tim Nikias wrote:
>> Safe mode et al yield the same black screen, just with "Safe Mode" 
>> printed in the corners. Still no Taskbar or Desktop Icons...
>>
>> *sigh*
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim
> You are not alone. A friend of mine has encountered the same problem on 
> an Acer. As of this moment in time (don't you just hate that expression) 
> we haven't found a solution. Any Win gurus out there?
> TGIRL (Thank $DEITY I Run Linux)
> 
> John
> 

Hm, my dad fumbled with it and found: Starting in Safe Mode to get to 
the Log In screen, but then hitting "Shutdown" allows a normal mode log 
in... But it'll crash when shutting down.

Last update (of course) can't be uninstalled, and we've got no clue what 
to do or to change, cause it seems like it won't write a startup 
protocol, even when told.

So, still in need of help. I'm debating whether I should bet that the 
only fix would be reinstalling...

Regards,
Tim

Post a reply to this message

Tim Nikias wrote:
> Last update (of course) can't be uninstalled,

And you can't use System Restore to go back before the update? That's 
pretty rude.



-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Tim Nikias wrote:
>> Last update (of course) can't be uninstalled,
> 
> And you can't use System Restore to go back before the update? That's 
> pretty rude.

As an aside, at least in XP, the black screen just before the login 
screen is when it mounts all the partitioned devices (i.e., disk drives) 
and sets up the swapping and so on. If you can get it into safe mode, I 
suggest doing a chkdsk /f (or a chkdsk /f /r) [or whatever Vista calls 
it these days], checking that your swap space is set up right, that you 
don't have any USB dongles plugged in or CDs in the drives, etc.  (In 
the "is it plugged in? is it turned on?" department...)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Tim Nikias <JUS### [at] gmxnetware> wrote:
> It's a Samsung with Vista installed.

  Two solutions come to mind, the first one not so drastic, the second
one more drastic:

1) Upgrade to Windows XP.

2) Upgrade to Linux.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> 2) Upgrade to Linux.

We're almost considering that at work. Most of the computers currently run
pirated Windows XP. Except the server, which runs pirated Windows 2003, and
just today we had to fight yet another activation problem.

Post a reply to this message

Tim Nikias wrote:

> Safe mode et al yield the same black screen, just with "Safe Mode" 
> printed in the corners. Still no Taskbar or Desktop Icons...
> 
> *sigh*

Just for giggles, have you tried logging in via Remote Desktop?

(If it's a problem with the video driver, this might just work. 
Unlikely, but it's an easy thing to try...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > 2) Upgrade to Linux.

> We're almost considering that at work. Most of the computers currently run
> pirated Windows XP. Except the server, which runs pirated Windows 2003, and
> just today we had to fight yet another activation problem.

  Assuming that's illegal in your country you could do a bit of good work
and report your company to the proper authorities. ;)

  (At least here, AFAIK, there exist authorities who do take seriously
reports of companies using pirated software for their work. For this
reason basically no respectable company here uses pirated software.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>  (At least here, AFAIK, there exist authorities who do take seriously
> reports of companies using pirated software for their work. For this
> reason basically no respectable company here uses pirated software.)

Same here, and if you want your company to be acreddited to any standard, 
you need to demonstrate that you have licenses for all software you are 
using.  For this reason I have some background task running on my computer 
that keeps a list of all installed programs and reports back to IT...  Any 
freeware programs I install I have to send a copy of the license to IT so 
they don't get in trouble.

Post a reply to this message

>>> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>> We're almost considering that at work. Most of the computers currently 
>>> run
>>> pirated Windows XP. Except the server, which runs pirated Windows 2003, 
>>> and
>>> just today we had to fight yet another activation problem.

>> Warp wrote:
>>  (At least here, AFAIK, there exist authorities who do take seriously
>> reports of companies using pirated software for their work. For this
>> reason basically no respectable company here uses pirated software.)


> scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> Same here, and if you want your company to be acreddited to any standard, 
> you need to demonstrate that you have licenses for all software you are 
> using.  For this reason I have some background task running on my computer 
> that keeps a list of all installed programs and reports back to IT...  Any 
> freeware programs I install I have to send a copy of the license to IT so 
> they don't get in trouble.

good ..... at least I'm not the only one who raised an eyebrow on this one. 
I even give my friends who use pirated software a bad time about this. I 
won't work on ANY system that I think has pirated software!!! Shame on you 
guys (Nicolas)!!!! Also (if I were prone to this behavior) I won't admit to 
anyone

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Tim Nikias wrote:
>>> Last update (of course) can't be uninstalled,
>>
>> And you can't use System Restore to go back before the update? That's 
>> pretty rude.

When I was attempting things, I couldn't use "Last working 
Configuration" (or however it would be called in English, my dad is 
running the german version), Safe mode didn't work and that one time I 
did get it to work, as I said, I couldn't uninstall the latest update.

Today, however, my dad brought the laptop to his tech-support at the 
university, which, reluctantly took it in. After they got it running, 
they found that the latest update didn't download properly, which was 
the reason for all the culprit: It was attempting to install an update 
which wasn't functional or complete, and shot itself trying that.

Their fix was to delete the corrupted updates and re-download them, 
which then allowed a proper update run and everything is back to normal. 
They also accused my dad of having messed with the system, however, I 
know my dad better: He has no clue when it comes to doing maintenance on 
a PC. All he does is allow the automatic update to run.

Isn't it awesome if even the automatic updates (which *should* be 
idiot-proof, given that it's all automatic and the user shouldn't be 
able to mess things up aside of not updating at all) screw your system?

And no, that's not just Microsoft, I've heard this happen on PSP, PS3 
and various other funny systems. For months know my Mac won't play 
Starcraft/Diablo2 because Apple decided to remove the 256-color mode. 
Their solution: Install Windows using Boot Camp. *sigh*

Oh, these software corporations!

Regards,
Tim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Tim Nikias wrote:
> 
>> Safe mode et al yield the same black screen, just with "Safe Mode" 
>> printed in the corners. Still no Taskbar or Desktop Icons...
>>
>> *sigh*
> 
> Just for giggles, have you tried logging in via Remote Desktop?
> 
> (If it's a problem with the video driver, this might just work. 
> Unlikely, but it's an easy thing to try...)

Nope, didn't try, wouldn't have a system here with which I could try it 
anyway (assuming you need Windows and a running LAN to log in). As I 
pointed out to Darren, it seems the problem was a corrupt update 
download, so I'm not sure if a remote login wouldn't have triggered the 
"attempting update kills me"-procedure.

Regards,
Tim

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>> > 2) Upgrade to Linux.
> 
>> We're almost considering that at work. Most of the computers currently
>> run pirated Windows XP. Except the server, which runs pirated Windows
>> 2003, and just today we had to fight yet another activation problem.
> 
>   Assuming that's illegal in your country you could do a bit of good work
> and report your company to the proper authorities. ;)

I'd rather keep the job, and instead report the guy on the train today who
was selling Encarta 2008 for $10.

Post a reply to this message

> was selling Encarta 2008 for $10.

Who would buy Encarta for $10 - even legally ?!?!?!

Post a reply to this message

> however, I know my dad better: He has no clue when it comes to doing 
> maintenance on a PC. All he does is allow the automatic update to run.

My dad has no clue either with regard to maintenance, yet he somehow managed 
to uninstall the sound card driver and then of course I had to walk through 
installing it again over the phone.

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Nikias" <JUS### [at] gmxnetWARE> a écrit dans le 
message de news:48b5b402$1@news.povray.org...
> They also accused my dad of having messed with the system, however, I know 
> my dad better: He has no clue when it comes to doing maintenance on a PC. 
> All he does is allow the automatic update to run.

Really, never understimate people who have no clue when it comes to mess 
with computers. Some time ago, all it took to get a BSOD on my old laptop 
(that had been BSOD-free for years) was a friend of my wife, who wanted to 
chat on Yahoo and somehow managed to plug/unplug the modem at exactly the 
wrong moment. Not that they are guilty, but they do certain "dangerous" 
things that more geeky people wouldn't dare to.

BTW, was your Dad's Vista upgraded to SP1? Certain vendors were still 
selling machines with pre-SP1 Vista and I know from experience that it did 
have issues with automatic upgrades.

G.

Post a reply to this message

Gilles Tran wrote:
> 
> Really, never understimate people who have no clue when it comes to mess 
> with computers. Some time ago, all it took to get a BSOD on my old 
> laptop (that had been BSOD-free for years) was a friend of my wife, who 
> wanted to chat on Yahoo and somehow managed to plug/unplug the modem at 
> exactly the wrong moment. Not that they are guilty, but they do certain 
> "dangerous" things that more geeky people wouldn't dare to.
> 

People who have no clue about computers and know it are a lot wiser with 
computers than people who have no clue but don't know it. Last group 
tries to fix everything themselves, while only doing things worse.

> 
> G.
> 


-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

Eero Ahonen wrote:

> People who have no clue about computers and know it are a lot wiser with 
> computers than people who have no clue but don't know it. Last group 
> tries to fix everything themselves, while only doing things worse.

As So Greats once wrote, "the greatest knowledge is in knowing that you 
know nothing".

I forget exactly how many millennia ago he wrote that... Seems oddly 
fitting, does it not?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Tim Nikias <JUS### [at] gmxnetware> wrote:
> > It's a Samsung with Vista installed.
>
> Two solutions come to mind, the first one not so drastic, the second
> one more drastic:
>
> 1) Upgrade to [some other version of Windows]
> 2) Upgrade to Linux.
[ 3) Go to Mac]


2003: the response above would be the troll or OS-fascist's attempt to start a
flame war.
2008: the response above needs to be said by more brave souls in these troubled
times.


The question then, if Linux is chosen, is which distro is best for guiding your
Dad in for a landing over the phone.  I've seen Linux big-wigs in forums say,
"I positively do not care if Linux is ever the right OS for someone's
grandfather. UNIX never was."  I think I'd stay away from a distro where too
much say was purists about closed source drivers.  Folks' Dads might not be
able to roll their own.

Post a reply to this message

gregjohn wrote:

> The question then, if Linux is chosen, is which distro is best for guiding your
> Dad in for a landing over the phone.  I've seen Linux big-wigs in forums say,
> "I positively do not care if Linux is ever the right OS for someone's
> grandfather. UNIX never was."  I think I'd stay away from a distro where too
> much say was purists about closed source drivers.  Folks' Dads might not be
> able to roll their own.

I think somebody needs to sit down and write an OS which *is* designed 
for people's dads to use.

However, I seriously doubt that anybody is going to do this just because 
I say so...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

> 
> I think somebody needs to sit down and write an OS which *is* designed
> for people's dads to use.
> 
IMHO, I'd say that the key obstacle would be the vast diversity of 
hardware you can find on people's dads computers. All the different 
possibilities drivers may or may not co-operate, not supported hardware, 
etc.
And yes, I have your favourite Amiga in mind, when I say that.

(And yes, I own one too, but not your kind of fancy A1200 with HDD and 
whatnot. I'm prowd owner of an A500, Kickstart version 1.2, 512kB chip 
and 512kb fast ram, OCS and no HDD but additional external floppy drive! 
Youngsters...)

Post a reply to this message

Michael Zier wrote:
>> I think somebody needs to sit down and write an OS which *is* designed
>> for people's dads to use.
>>
> IMHO, I'd say that the key obstacle would be the vast diversity of 
> hardware you can find on people's dads computers.

Both Windoze and Linux seem to have got around that, not to mention 
MacOS. So it can't be that insurmountable...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I'd rather keep the job

  You can report anonymously.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

gregjohn <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> The question then, if Linux is chosen, is which distro is best for guiding your
> Dad in for a landing over the phone.  I've seen Linux big-wigs in forums say,
> "I positively do not care if Linux is ever the right OS for someone's
> grandfather. UNIX never was."  I think I'd stay away from a distro where too
> much say was purists about closed source drivers.  Folks' Dads might not be
> able to roll their own.

  Well, you have two options:

1) A computer with an OS which has a steep learning curve.
2) A computer with an OS that doesn't even boot.

  Which of the two options is better?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I think somebody needs to sit down and write an OS which *is* designed 
> for people's dads to use.

  Apple has already done that. MacOS has been always designed to be very
easy for average persons to use (unlike Windows, no matter how much MS and
Windows fanatics lie about this).

  But of course Apple is never an option to you.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Am Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:29:05 +0100 schrieb Invisible:

> Michael Zier wrote:
>>> I think somebody needs to sit down and write an OS which *is* designed
>>> for people's dads to use.
>>>
>> IMHO, I'd say that the key obstacle would be the vast diversity of
>> hardware you can find on people's dads computers.
> 
> Both Windoze and Linux seem to have got around that, not to mention
> MacOS. So it can't be that insurmountable...

Yes, but isn't it so, that hardware/driver issues are the most prominent 
problems People's Dads (TM) run into (maybe followed by incomprehensible 
error messages).

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:

>   Apple has already done that. MacOS has been always designed to be very
> easy for average persons to use (unlike Windows, no matter how much MS and
> Windows fanatics lie about this).

I was under the impression that MacOS X is just Unix with a prettier UI?

>   But of course Apple is never an option to you.

Well, that's a whole "other" discussion too...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Warp wrote:

> >   Apple has already done that. MacOS has been always designed to be very
> > easy for average persons to use (unlike Windows, no matter how much MS and
> > Windows fanatics lie about this).

> I was under the impression that MacOS X is just Unix with a prettier UI?

  A kernel doesn't make the OS.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>>>   Apple has already done that. MacOS has been always designed to be very
>>> easy for average persons to use (unlike Windows, no matter how much MS and
>>> Windows fanatics lie about this).
> 
>> I was under the impression that MacOS X is just Unix with a prettier UI?
> 
>   A kernel doesn't make the OS.

Depends how you define "kernel".

How different is MacOS? Is it just a typical Unix environment with a 
different UI shell running on top? Or is it more fundamentally different 
than that under the hood?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Depends how you define "kernel".

> How different is MacOS? Is it just a typical Unix environment with a 
> different UI shell running on top? Or is it more fundamentally different 
> than that under the hood?

  It is quite different from typical unix systems. For example, it
implements many file system features (such as metadata) that typical
unix systems don't have. Also the windowing system is its own entity
and has nothing to do with unix.

  Of course the great thing is that you *can* compile and run most unix
programs in it if you want. IIRC it can even emulate the X windowing system
so you can run graphical unix programs as well.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Eero Ahonen wrote:

> People who have no clue about computers and know it are a lot wiser with 
> computers than people who have no clue but don't know it. Last group 
> tries to fix everything themselves, while only doing things worse.

I have just got back to my desk after another support call from one of 
our lab staff.

I've seen many things - people who accidentally removed the taskbar, 
deleted a print queue, stuff like that. But even today, after working 
here for 5 years, users are still finding new ways to surprise me.

This user called me over because she has somehow rotated the display on 
her LCD monitor through 270°. Even though that's not actually possible. 
Somehow, she did it.

Quoting Einstein: "There are only two things that are infinite - the 
universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not even completely sure about 
the first one..."

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> How different is MacOS? Is it just a typical Unix environment with a 
>> different UI shell running on top? Or is it more fundamentally different 
>> than that under the hood?
> 
>   It is quite different from typical unix systems. For example, it
> implements many file system features (such as metadata) that typical
> unix systems don't have. Also the windowing system is its own entity
> and has nothing to do with unix.

If you look at any typical Unix, you'll see the following things:

- The /dev folder.
- init and getty (and that whole TTY mess).
- Runlevel scripts (written in Bash, obviously).
- at and cron.
- UIDs, GIDs, setuid, setgid, sticky bit and associated chaos.

How much of this sort of thing does MacOS have?

>   Of course the great thing is that you *can* compile and run most unix
> programs in it if you want. IIRC it can even emulate the X windowing system
> so you can run graphical unix programs as well.

Yeah... I recall Haskell doesn't have any bindings for the native UI 
yet, so many people on MacOS evidently run X so they can use the 
standard X bindings instead...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> I think somebody needs to sit down and write an OS which *is* designed 
> for people's dads to use.

That's what Singularity is supposed to be about, in part. Unfortunately, 
everyone's going to say "I don't want some big bad company managing my 
software for me."

Linux also fits that bill, as in TiVO, where the company that sold it to 
you manages it for you.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> 
> - The /dev folder.
> - init and getty (and that whole TTY mess).
> - Runlevel scripts (written in Bash, obviously).
> - at and cron.
> - UIDs, GIDs, setuid, setgid, sticky bit and associated chaos.
> 
> How much of this sort of thing does MacOS have?
> 

AFAIK ~all of them. But most of the users never even see them.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> This user called me over because she has somehow rotated the display on 
> her LCD monitor through 270°. Even though that's not actually possible. 
> Somehow, she did it.
> 
Actually, KRandR does it quite happily. I've just had fun rotating my 
desktop by 90 deg increments and as an encore mirroring it vertically 
then horizontally and rotating it once again (I've got to get a life)

John

-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

Post a reply to this message

On 28-Aug-08 16:17, Invisible wrote:
> Eero Ahonen wrote:
> 
>> People who have no clue about computers and know it are a lot wiser 
>> with computers than people who have no clue but don't know it. Last 
>> group tries to fix everything themselves, while only doing things worse.
> 
> I have just got back to my desk after another support call from one of 
> our lab staff.
> 
> I've seen many things - people who accidentally removed the taskbar, 
> deleted a print queue, stuff like that. But even today, after working 
> here for 5 years, users are still finding new ways to surprise me.
> 
> This user called me over because she has somehow rotated the display on 
> her LCD monitor through 270°. Even though that's not actually possible. 
> Somehow, she did it.
> 

My wife did that once. Try ctrl-alt-shift up (or down or sideways).
If that works, disable that shortcuts in the advanced settings of your 
monitor.
Shortcuts are handy if the monitor physically can rotate, if not they 
are annoying.

Post a reply to this message

Gilles Tran wrote:
> Really, never understimate people who have no clue when it comes to mess 
> with computers. Some time ago, all it took to get a BSOD on my old 
> laptop (that had been BSOD-free for years) was a friend of my wife, who 
> wanted to chat on Yahoo and somehow managed to plug/unplug the modem at 
> exactly the wrong moment. Not that they are guilty, but they do certain 
> "dangerous" things that more geeky people wouldn't dare to.

Well, in this case, he would have to mess up the download itself, and 
the only possible way is to just shutdown the computer without letting 
it finish it's tasks. But my dad doesn't do that, he tells it to 
shutdown and then lets it do its job.

> BTW, was your Dad's Vista upgraded to SP1? Certain vendors were still 
> selling machines with pre-SP1 Vista and I know from experience that it 
> did have issues with automatic upgrades.

Hm, AFAIK, it was already installed, the Laptop is only four weeks old 
or so. But I'd have to check.

You'd figure it would be a stupid idea to sell hardware with outdated 
software, but then, how long are laptops kept in stock and catching 
dust, until they're sold?

I'm just glad it got fixed. Lately, my dad calls me at least twice a day 
because of some software he didn't yet install, but needs. I didn't like 
Vista that much on first sight, and since my PC is running fine with XP, 
I never upgraded - and my laptop is a Mac. So I didn't come to terms 
with all the querks and how to tweak it to my liking. Then along comes 
dad, with no real clue, and expects me to work some magic. *sigh*

Regards,
Tim

Post a reply to this message

Tim Nikias wrote:
> Well, in this case, he would have to mess up the download itself,

Well, downloads can get broken, and when you talk about all the packets 
ever downloaded over the internet, a 16-bit CRC doesn't necessarily do 
the job. But you'd hope such a thing gets checked more completely once 
the downloads finish. :-)

Of course, if you screw things up, and (say) don't double-check the 
configuration is right before you change it, it can get messed up. Hard 
to say what happened without more details.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:

> My wife did that once. Try ctrl-alt-shift up (or down or sideways).
> If that works, disable that shortcuts in the advanced settings of your 
> monitor.
> Shortcuts are handy if the monitor physically can rotate, if not they 
> are annoying.

Yeah, I've seen monitors that do. But the Dell monitors at work don't 
rotate like that...

As it is, I managed to open the video options window and manually adjust 
the setting. The hardest part was operating the mouse with its axies 
transposed - the user thought I was God-like for pulling that off! ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

> The hardest part was operating the mouse with its axies transposed

Couldn't you just rotate the mouse to match? It might be a bit awkward to 
hold at 90 degrees, but at least it should be easy to control.

> the user thought I was God-like for pulling that off! ;-)

Hehe, reminds me of when I had to download and reinstall the graphics card 
driver on a Japanese laptop.  I managed to locate and download the driver 
from a Japanese website, uninstall the old one and put the new one on there, 
all without being able to read a single word of Japanese.  The owner of the 
laptop was suitably impressed that I could apparently "translate" phrases 
like "do you want to restart now?" and "are the new display settings ok? if 
not will revert back in 15." :-)

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>> The hardest part was operating the mouse with its axies transposed
> 
> Couldn't you just rotate the mouse to match? It might be a bit awkward 
> to hold at 90 degrees, but at least it should be easy to control.

Hmm, would that actually work? And how do you press the buttons?

Anyway, it's not _that_ hard to do this. (Ever played a flight simulator 
where the Y control is inverted?)

>> the user thought I was God-like for pulling that off! ;-)
> 
> Hehe, reminds me of when I had to download and reinstall the graphics 
> card driver on a Japanese laptop.  I managed to locate and download the 
> driver from a Japanese website, uninstall the old one and put the new 
> one on there, all without being able to read a single word of Japanese.  
> The owner of the laptop was suitably impressed that I could apparently 
> "translate" phrases like "do you want to restart now?" and "are the new 
> display settings ok? if not will revert back in 15." :-)

Hee... I did this with a machine that was running a German copy of 
Windows 3.11. (This was in 2006 by the way...!) I can't remember what I 
was called in to do - probably just install the right language files - 
but I succeeded at any rate.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> Couldn't you just rotate the mouse to match? It might be a bit awkward to 
>> hold at 90 degrees, but at least it should be easy to control.
>
> Hmm, would that actually work?

Yes.  I used to use that trick the whole time in some puzzle game where it 
rotated the pointer response to make levels harder.  So long as it doesn't 
invert just one of the axes you are ok.

> And how do you press the buttons?

For a rotate left 90 degrees, use your thumb and 1st finger to click, for 
right 90 degrees I used my left hand, for 180 degrees I think I used both 
hands to hold the mouse and then my thumbs to click. [if there was anyone 
else in here they would be wondering what the hell i was just doing with my 
mouse!]

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Invisible wrote:
> 
> Anyway, it's not _that_ hard to do this. (Ever played a flight simulator 
> where the Y control is inverted?)
> 

I'll have to confirm - does inverted Y on flight simulator mean that 
pressing the UP key or pushing the joystick actually makes the plane go up?

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

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scott wrote:
>> The hardest part was operating the mouse with its axies transposed
> 
> Couldn't you just rotate the mouse to match? It might be a bit awkward 
> to hold at 90 degrees, but at least it should be easy to control.
> 
>> the user thought I was God-like for pulling that off! ;-)
> 
> Hehe, reminds me of when I had to download and reinstall the graphics 
> card driver on a Japanese laptop.  I managed to locate and download the 
> driver from a Japanese website, uninstall the old one and put the new 
> one on there, all without being able to read a single word of Japanese.  
> The owner of the laptop was suitably impressed that I could apparently 
> "translate" phrases like "do you want to restart now?" and "are the new 
> display settings ok? if not will revert back in 15." :-)
> 
> 

I once installed the German version of Windows ME on a computer with a 
French keyboard.  I've never used ME before or since.  Not as bad as 
Japanese, but still, kinda crazy with the different position of some 
keys in each language.  BTW, I don't know French or German.


Tom

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> gregjohn <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > The question then, if Linux is chosen, is which distro is best for guiding your
> > Dad in for a landing over the phone.  I've seen Linux big-wigs in forums say,
> > "I positively do not care if Linux is ever the right OS for someone's
> > grandfather. UNIX never was."  I think I'd stay away from a distro where too
> > much say was purists about closed source drivers.  Folks' Dads might not be
> > able to roll their own.
>
>   Well, you have two options:
>
> 1) A computer with an OS which has a steep learning curve.
> 2) A computer with an OS that doesn't even boot.
>
>   Which of the two options is better?
>


3) A computer with a version of an OS which does NOT do crazy things like make
you recompile the kernel to install a wireless driver in order to meet some
ideologue's view of "freedom". [Debian circa 2005 did this.]  Ubuntu, for the
moment, unless RMS's legions get to Mark, does not.

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gregjohn <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> 3) A computer with a version of an OS which does NOT do crazy things like make
> you recompile the kernel to install a wireless driver in order to meet some
> ideologue's view of "freedom". [Debian circa 2005 did this.]  Ubuntu, for the
> moment, unless RMS's legions get to Mark, does not.

  I have had linux in my computer for many years (started with Suse 9.3,
then upgraded to 10.2), and I have not needed to recompile the kernel
even once.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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>> 3) A computer with a version of an OS which does NOT do crazy things like 
>> make
>> you recompile the kernel to install a wireless driver in order to meet 
>> some
>> ideologue's view of "freedom". [Debian circa 2005 did this.]  Ubuntu, for 
>> the
>> moment, unless RMS's legions get to Mark, does not.
>
>  I have had linux in my computer for many years (started with Suse 9.3,
> then upgraded to 10.2), and I have not needed to recompile the kernel
> even once.

I tried several different Linuxes on my machine over the last couple of 
years, and I never managed to get past the really steep learning curve that 
would enable me to get the wireless card working.  I found some ridiculous 
50 page PDF explaining in detail how to do it, but then I got stuck on like 
page 3 when something it told me to do didn't exist on my system.  Every 
time I just gave up (and it's not like I didn't try for several evenings and 
several hours on Google to get it working).  And I'm not even going to 
mention the first few times I tried Linux (maybe 5 years ago) where I got a 
big green triangle across half the screen permanently, or that I couldn't 
get 3D acceleration working, or ..., or ....  It's just too much hassle to 
learn when you can't even get started.

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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> It's just too much hassle to learn when you can't even get started.

  Then don't use it. It's that simple.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 29-Aug-08 9:50, Invisible wrote:
> andrel wrote:
> 
>> My wife did that once. Try ctrl-alt-shift up (or down or sideways).
>> If that works, disable that shortcuts in the advanced settings of your 
>> monitor.
>> Shortcuts are handy if the monitor physically can rotate, if not they 
>> are annoying.
> 
> Yeah, I've seen monitors that do. But the Dell monitors at work don't 
> rotate like that...
> 
> As it is, I managed to open the video options window and manually adjust 
> the setting. The hardest part was operating the mouse with its axies 
> transposed -

been there, done that.

> the user thought I was God-like for pulling that off! ;-)

unfortunately not, the user was my wife.

Did you turn off the keyboard shortcuts? Or do you want to play God 
again later?

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