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Oh my God... I just found an illegal copy of the sheet music on teh
interwebs! Muhuhuhu!! >:-D
OK.. So I realise it says "toccata" on it... but... OMFG!! o_O
*dies*
I thought my hand was going to span in half by the time I got to the
second page! Seriously - an inteval of a 10th?! How big do you think my
friggin' hards are?!! 0_0
Also... I mean, Mr Bach's Toccata & Fugue is pretty damned hard, but
*this* piece of music appears to be actually impossible. As in, there
are *three* lines of notes, yet homo sapiens only has *two* hands. And
it's not like there's any chance of modulating either - one hand is
holding down 4-note block chords, the other if flying through an
insessant torrent of quarter notes, and the third... hand... is supposed
to be holding down sustained bass notes...? I'm confused.
**** me, it sounds good though!
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Also... I mean, Mr Bach's Toccata & Fugue is pretty damned hard,
I was amused to learn it was not uncommon for composers to write music,
then go to conductors etc and ask "is it possible to perform this?"
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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That should be about the largest interval you will encounter in onventional
keyboard music. While the music indicates the notes are to be played
simultaneously, it is forgivable for those with smaller hands to play the
notes in a quick rapid succession (like a grace note). Or, if you have a
largish proboscis, you could peck the note at the appropriate time.
--
H²
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Or, are you required to use the sostenuto pedal on that passage?
--
H²
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"Halbert" <hal### [at] gmail com> wrote in message
news:48ab31fc$1@news.povray.org...
> Or, are you required to use the sostenuto pedal on that passage?
>
>
> --
> H²
>
Answering my own question: Duh, it's an organ piece! ( Organs do not have
sostenudo pedals.)
--
H²
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Wow... 4 replies in the time it takes to have a shower!
Oh, wait...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Halbert" <hal### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
news:48ab3181@news.povray.org...
> That should be about the largest interval you will encounter in
> onventional keyboard music. While the music indicates the notes are to be
> played simultaneously, it is forgivable for those with smaller hands to
> play the notes in a quick rapid succession (like a grace note). Or, if you
> have a largish proboscis, you could peck the note at the appropriate time.
LOL!!! Thanks for that! Wasn't expecting it, then fell off my chair!! :)
:)
~Steve~
>
> --
> H²
>
>
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Oh my God... I just found an illegal copy of the sheet music on teh
> interwebs! Muhuhuhu!! >:-D
Given that the toccata was composed in 1879 I think it has long ago
passed into public domain, even if we take into account the Mickey Mouse
Protection Act in the US.
--
- Warp
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Oh my God... I just found an illegal copy of the sheet music on teh
> interwebs! Muhuhuhu!! >:-D
Considering he died in 1937 his music should by now be public domain in
much of the world (though I don't know about England specifically).
> I thought my hand was going to span in half by the time I got to the
> second page! Seriously - an inteval of a 10th?! How big do you think my
> friggin' hards are?!! 0_0
Big enough to span a 10th I'd imagine, I don't think that's terribly
uncommon in keyboard. You should enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKKlhYF53w
> Also... I mean, Mr Bach's Toccata & Fugue is pretty damned hard,
It all depends on what you measure it's difficulty relative to. I'd say
that it's actually one of the easier classical organ pieces (though I'm
not very familiar with what the standard organ repertoire would be).
This is not to diminish the effort you spent learning it of course, it's
certainly challenging enough to present a challenge to people without
serious training in the instrument. (as a note, it's also at about the
limit of my meager piano skills).
> *this* piece of music appears to be actually impossible. As in, there
> are *three* lines of notes, yet homo sapiens only has *two* hands.
I assume you're talking about the toccata from his Symphony No.5 for
organ? The third staff would be for the foot pedals -- almost all organ
music will have three staves. If your version of Bach's Toccata and
Fugue didn't, it was probably a piano reduction of the original 3-staff
organ score.
That said, there is honest to goodness piano music with three staves,
but it's a bit less common (although still not all that rare).
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:36:37 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> As in, there are
> *three* lines of notes, yet homo sapiens only has *two* hands.
Only per person. Maybe it's written for "four hands". I've seen the
occasional piece for 3 hands; I often could manage the third hand (but
not the fourth - my left hand is stupid when it comes to piano). :-)
Jim
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:56:00 -0400, Halbert wrote:
> Answering my own question: Duh, it's an organ piece! ( Organs do not
> have sostenudo pedals.)
Well, no, but some have three rows of keys (or more) + foot pedals...
Jim
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"Halbert" <hal### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
news:48ab331a$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "Halbert" <hal### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
> news:48ab31fc$1@news.povray.org...
>> Or, are you required to use the sostenuto pedal on that passage?
>>
>>
>> --
>> H²
>>
>
> Answering my own question: Duh, it's an organ piece! ( Organs do not have
> sostenudo pedals.)
Being an organ piece explains the "third hand". Organs have a foot pedal
keyboard for bass notes. That is the third line that Andy can't play.
There's a Gershwin Prelude that I learnt to play once, that is also full of
10th intervals - typically C#-to-E. As Halbert said, if your hand is too
small for the interval (as mine is) roll across the two notes from low to
high. With a lot of parctice on long intervals, your hand will eventually
stretch further than it can now.
Brian
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"Halbert" <hal### [at] gmailcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
48ab331a$1@news.povray.org...
> Answering my own question: Duh, it's an organ piece! ( Organs do not have
> sostenudo pedals.)
>
Nope but they are commonly played in churches or cathedrals with long
reverberation times up to 4 or 5 seconds which blends fast notes
Marc
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Warp wrote:
> Given that the toccata was composed in 1879 I think it has long ago
> passed into public domain, even if we take into account the Mickey Mouse
> Protection Act in the US.
I'm confident that the music itself is in the public domain now.
However, I was under the impression that a particular publication of it
can still claim copyright. As in, a publisher can publish the score and
charge you money for it, and if you photocopy the book, that's illegal.
(Also... I'm impressed you happened to know it was 1879.)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> Also... I mean, Mr Bach's Toccata & Fugue is pretty damned hard,
>
> It all depends on what you measure it's difficulty relative to. I'd say
> that it's actually one of the easier classical organ pieces (though I'm
> not very familiar with what the standard organ repertoire would be).
>
> This is not to diminish the effort you spent learning it of course, it's
> certainly challenging enough to present a challenge to people without
> serious training in the instrument. (as a note, it's also at about the
> limit of my meager piano skills).
Well, Bach's Toccata & Fugue contains rapid melodies and dizzying
harmonies and counterpoint. And it seems to hop from key to key at whim.
Whoever wrote this thing was either a genius, or insane. (Possibly both,
thinking about it...)
Widor's Toccata involves big block chords, wide intervals, a hyperactive
stream of 32nd notes, and awkward rythems. I doubt I'll ever be able to
play it as an actual toccata. It's too complicated! o_O
> I assume you're talking about the toccata from his Symphony No.5 for
> organ?
Hell yeah. ;-)
> The third staff would be for the foot pedals -- almost all organ
> music will have three staves.
Ooo... Well, obviously, my synthezier doesn't have those. (Which is
precisely why it fits inside my bedroom BTW.)
> If your version of Bach's Toccata and
> Fugue didn't, it was probably a piano reduction of the original 3-staff
> organ score.
That would explain a few things. For example, the Widor score I have
mumbles something about which organ stops to use at the beginning. The
score I have for Bach says no such thing.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Brian Elliott wrote:
> Being an organ piece explains the "third hand". Organs have a foot
> pedal keyboard for bass notes. That is the third line that Andy can't
> play.
Thank God the bassline is pretty simple...!
> There's a Gershwin Prelude that I learnt to play once, that is also full
> of 10th intervals - typically C#-to-E. As Halbert said, if your hand is
> too small for the interval (as mine is) roll across the two notes from
> low to high. With a lot of parctice on long intervals, your hand will
> eventually stretch further than it can now.
This thing has an interval from C to E. Specifically, it has this part
that goes
Eb G Bb Db
D G Bb D
C G Bb E
On reaching the final chord, my hand was in pain! >_< I mean, it
*sounds* amazing, but a 10th interval with a black note in the middle? Ouch.
I mean, I *can* play it, but it's not very comfortable.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news:
48abd019$1@news.povray.org...
> I mean, I *can* play it, but it's not very comfortable.
I'm not a piano but a guitar player and some chord positions (I call them
"kung-fu positions") neither are very comfortable when you begin practicing
them.
It is mostly muscle training and with practice it becomes much easier and
painless.
I guess it is the same on a keyboard.
Marc
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>> I mean, I *can* play it, but it's not very comfortable.
>
> I'm not a piano but a guitar player and some chord positions (I call them
> "kung-fu positions") neither are very comfortable when you begin practicing
> them.
> It is mostly muscle training and with practice it becomes much easier and
> painless.
> I guess it is the same on a keyboard.
I've been playing keyboards extensively since I was about 9 years old.
Playing piano is harder because the keys are much heavier. But still,
generally I'm quite good at playing keyboards. I have long, slender,
bony fingers that are quite suited to the task. (Indeed, I would say my
fingers are my most attractive physical feature - insert witty remark
here.) But even for me, a 10th is a pretty big interval. It wouldn't
even be so hard if it didn't have black notes in the middle... heh.
Clearly I'm going to have to post a recording at some point. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news:
48abd6cc$1@news.povray.org...
> I've been playing keyboards extensively since I was about 9 years old.
> Playing piano is harder because the keys are much heavier. But still,
> generally I'm quite good at playing keyboards. I have long, slender, bony
> fingers that are quite suited to the task. (Indeed, I would say my fingers
> are my most attractive physical feature - insert witty remark here.) But
> even for me, a 10th is a pretty big interval. It wouldn't even be so hard
> if it didn't have black notes in the middle... heh.
>
> Clearly I'm going to have to post a recording at some point. :-P
>
> --
I did not mean that you are a beginner but I understood you are not familiar
with 10th extensions with black notes in the middle.
I think it needs antagonistic muscular actions our hand is not designed for.
Practicing will make it easier, that's all what I mean :-)
Marc
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Wow... 4 replies in the time it takes to have a shower!
>
> Oh, wait...
The group could also be named povray.nothing-better-to-do .
Regards,
John
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John VanSickle wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Wow... 4 replies in the time it takes to have a shower!
>>
>> Oh, wait...
>
> The group could also be named povray.nothing-better-to-do .
>
> Regards,
> John
>
...or possibly povray.look-busy.here-comes-the-boss
John
--
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> (Also... I'm impressed you happened to know it was 1879.)
Unlike some people, I do the research. It's not that hard.
--
- Warp
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:36:37 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> As in, there are
>> *three* lines of notes, yet homo sapiens only has *two* hands.
>
> Only per person. Maybe it's written for "four hands". I've seen the
> occasional piece for 3 hands; I often could manage the third hand (but
> not the fourth - my left hand is stupid when it comes to piano). :-)
I've seen three people on the same piano. (I think not all three were using
both hands all the time, but still...)
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> Oh my God... I just found an illegal copy of the sheet music on teh
> interwebs! Muhuhuhu!! >:-D
You can get it legally for free at free-scores.com
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:24:58 -0300, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I've seen three people on the same piano. (I think not all three were
> using both hands all the time, but still...)
Yeah, there are a few pieces written like that....
Jim
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On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:43:38 +0200, scott wrote:
>> Oh my God... I just found an illegal copy of the sheet music on teh
>> interwebs! Muhuhuhu!! >:-D
>
> You can get it legally for free at free-scores.com
Cool, I never knew about that site. Bookmarked. :-)
Jim
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scott wrote:
>> Oh my God... I just found an illegal copy of the sheet music on teh
>> interwebs! Muhuhuhu!! >:-D
>
> You can get it legally for free at free-scores.com
...you are my new best friend, Scotty.
The file is 10x smaller, and in crispy clear vector graphics. Huzzah!
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> You can get it legally for free at free-scores.com
>
> ...you are my new best friend, Scotty.
>
> The file is 10x smaller, and in crispy clear vector graphics. Huzzah!
Eep! I just found a missing note... o_O
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Eep! I just found a missing note... o_O
And now I've found a note that's actually different between the two
scores. The old score says C, the new one says E. (This makes that
hand-breaking 10th inveral into a simple octave.)
I'm a little concerned now... ._.
Is this kind of thing normal?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> Eep! I just found a missing note... o_O
>
> And now I've found a note that's actually different between the two
> scores. The old score says C, the new one says E. (This makes that
> hand-breaking 10th inveral into a simple octave.)
>
> I'm a little concerned now... ._.
>
> Is this kind of thing normal?
>
It depends on who transcribed it. In general, it's not uncommon for the
scribe to edit the music their transcribing. Usually there will be a
note to that effect in the music, but not always.
...Chambers
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Just out of curiosity... is anybody here actually able to play this thing?
(I know we have all kinds of people here, from silicon designers to
games developers, so we *might* have an organist somewhere...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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