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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote in message
news:489b2bbd$1@news.povray.org...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:49:24 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> But using that money appropriately is the key - using it to enhance the
> value of the property through improvements seems to be the best route to
> go.
I think that has 'always' been the way to go. I know if I want, (and
NEED), a new roof for my place, then your mother bank is the person to ask.
I think you'll probably always get it. (Well, as long as you've never been a
defaulter, that is).
~Steve~
> Jim
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:43:01 +0100, St. wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:489b2bbd$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:49:24 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> But using that money appropriately is the key - using it to enhance the
>> value of the property through improvements seems to be the best route
>> to go.
>
> I think that has 'always' been the way to go. I know if I want, (and
> NEED), a new roof for my place, then your mother bank is the person to
> ask. I think you'll probably always get it. (Well, as long as you've
> never been a defaulter, that is).
Yep - as long as you've got good credit (both in general and with the
bank), that goes a long ways.
Jim
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On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:14:54 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
Oh! Thanks, next time I'm in the Caribbean I'll remember that :)
I hope.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:49:24 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> I don't want to owe that
>>> kind of money on an unsecured loan of any kind. I'd much rather have
>>> things paid off (that's a really good feeling to have).
>> That's good. But better an unsecured loan than a secured loan! :-)
>
> Well, from a credit standpoint, a secured loan like an equity line (where
> the "security" is the property) makes good sense.
Sure. I just meant that all else being equal, having the person you owe
money to being unable to do something about it if you don't pay them
back is a good thing. :-)
Of course, it's easier to get a lower rate and more money on a secured
loan.
> I have heard some
> people use the equity in their homes to make money (by investing it), but
> that seems a little risky to me.
Everything that makes you money is risky. It's a matter of whether the
payment is worth the risk.
> But using that money appropriately is the key - using it to enhance the
> value of the property through improvements seems to be the best route to
> go.
It certainly doesn't hurt. Even better is saving up, *earning*
interest, *then* putting the roof on, if you can wait.
> types of "secured" credit cards (where you pay money as a security
> deposit and then your limit is set to what you put down as a deposit).
The quotes shouldn't be around "secured" but around "credit" there. It
isn't a credit card if you're not borrowing the money.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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St. wrote:
> That's exactly what I do. I hope they never get rid of cash,
They can't. There's huge portions of the economy that are actually
black-market. :-)
Alternately, they already have. There's no cash left. All that's left is
debt and federal reserve notes.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:37:46 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:49:24 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> I don't want to owe that
>>>> kind of money on an unsecured loan of any kind. I'd much rather have
>>>> things paid off (that's a really good feeling to have).
>>> That's good. But better an unsecured loan than a secured loan! :-)
>>
>> Well, from a credit standpoint, a secured loan like an equity line
>> (where the "security" is the property) makes good sense.
>
> Sure. I just meant that all else being equal, having the person you owe
> money to being unable to do something about it if you don't pay them
> back is a good thing. :-)
>
> Of course, it's easier to get a lower rate and more money on a secured
> loan.
Oh, ISWYM. And yes, good point.
>> I have heard some
>> people use the equity in their homes to make money (by investing it),
>> but that seems a little risky to me.
>
> Everything that makes you money is risky. It's a matter of whether the
> payment is worth the risk.
True. I know that some loans do prohibit certain uses of the money, but
that seems *generally* easy to get around - you don't use the loan money
for investing, but you use it to pay for what it's allowed for, freeing
up other money for investment. I suspect those types of restrictions
would be very difficult to enforce.
>> But using that money appropriately is the key - using it to enhance the
>> value of the property through improvements seems to be the best route
>> to go.
>
> It certainly doesn't hurt. Even better is saving up, *earning*
> interest, *then* putting the roof on, if you can wait.
Of course. Most people find it difficult to save up the $14K that we had
to spend (total tear-off and replace). But most people are very poor
money managers. :-)
>> types of "secured" credit cards (where you pay money as a security
>> deposit and then your limit is set to what you put down as a deposit).
>
> The quotes shouldn't be around "secured" but around "credit" there. It
> isn't a credit card if you're not borrowing the money.
True....
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> True. I know that some loans do prohibit certain uses of the money,
The only restrictions I've ever seen are for gambling (which is more a
legal restriction) and for paying a "down payment" (because, you know,
the point of the down payment is it's the part you didn't borrow).
> Of course. Most people find it difficult to save up the $14K that we had
> to spend (total tear-off and replace). But most people are very poor
> money managers. :-)
Depends how much you make, too, I guess. I'm pretty conservative with
savings.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:56:57 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> True. I know that some loans do prohibit certain uses of the money,
>
> The only restrictions I've ever seen are for gambling (which is more a
> legal restriction) and for paying a "down payment" (because, you know,
> the point of the down payment is it's the part you didn't borrow).
I vaguely recall seeing something about investing in one set of paperwork
I looked at (not the one we agreed to).
>> Of course. Most people find it difficult to save up the $14K that we
>> had to spend (total tear-off and replace). But most people are very
>> poor money managers. :-)
>
> Depends how much you make, too, I guess. I'm pretty conservative with
> savings.
Yeah, we tend to run closer to the edge than I'd like. Part of the
challenge is when you make the transition from "not making much" to
"making enough to save some" is that you've got to pay off what you've
borrowed while in the "not making much" phase. Many people (myself
included) don't learn until after you get to the "making enough to save
some" how to really manage money.
Money management is something that I think *should* be taught in school,
though - there are so many "life skills" that kids coming out of high
school (or college for that matter) don't have but should; that's one of
them.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Money management is something that I think *should* be taught in school,
Yeah. I never understood why "home economics" never taught any economics.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:50:09 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Money management is something that I think *should* be taught in
>> school,
>
> Yeah. I never understood why "home economics" never taught any
> economics.
LOL, you know, I never thought of it that way, but you're right....
Cooking and sewing on buttons are useful skills, but only if you can
afford the equipment for either of those activities. :-)
Money management definitely should fall in there somewhere. How to
balance a checkbook, schedule payments, do financial planning, set goals
and figure out how to meet them.....I'm sure there are others.
Jim
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:489b415e@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> That's exactly what I do. I hope they never get rid of cash,
>
> They can't. There's huge portions of the economy that are actually
> black-market. :-)
>
> Alternately, they already have. There's no cash left. All that's left is
> debt and federal reserve notes.
OMG. Don't start me on that side of it. I heard the other day that a
payment for your old car to be scrapped might be introduced here. (Remember
my post?) I don't want to drive around in an electric matchbox! I will sit
at home instead and do everything on the internet, and get fat, costing our
lovely National Health a whole lot more money until I die... :o/
Damn, this world is... ******
~Steve~
>
> --
> Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
> Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
> kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
> who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
> and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:489b51f0$1@news.povray.org...
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Money management is something that I think *should* be taught in school,
>
> Yeah. I never understood why "home economics" never taught any economics.
Heh, they did in our school: Beans on toast or cheese straws.
("Home Economics" was our cooking lessons which they don't have now).
Yes, I had to wear a pinny too... O-O
~Steve~
>
> --
> Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
> Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
> kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
> who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
> and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Phil Cook wrote:
>
> Eh? You mean where I monitor bills and credit card statements as one
> combined outgoing prior to payment dates and ensure that funds exist
> within the bank account to deal with them in advance such that going on
> holiday for a fortnight and not being able to get to the bills doesn't
> mean me returning to invoice plus reminder plus reminder plus
> threatening letter; that sort of maturity?
Yep.
>
> That's the bizarreness so you buy something on CC for $40 then when it
> comes to pay you send them $50 so you have positive $10? The only way I
> see this as a good thing is if the credit card pays interest on the
> amount, which I know some do, but in that instance they wouldn't be
> refunding it to you so why do it?
>
More like: keep +$400 in the account. I know I'm going to go down to
Circuit City to buy a $59 router. So I transfer $60 in before I go.
While I'm there I remember I needed some toner for the printer. $70. So
I pickup the router and the toner on the card. I come home. No
worries, the router and the toner is covered, so is the $40 of groceries
and $75 gas that I charged and for got about. In a coupla weeks I
notice all the activity warnings in the bank folder on my e-mail and I'm
waiting for a scene to render anyway, so I pop a couple open and notice
that my +ve balance is down to +$316. I check the activity and see all
is okay. I post transfer of say, $100, into the account. Meanwhile the
recurring topup charge I set up for my daughter's cell phone is never
going to fail.
I'll admit that maybe it's bizarre but what am I *so* guilty of? Maybe
of being a bit neurotic, maybe of just thinking in a different way? It
keeps the money more tangible to me. The monthly due-date lockstep just
trips me up that's all.
-Jim
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St. wrote:
> ("Home Economics" was our cooking lessons which they don't have now).
Actually, I dated someone who took "Home Economics" as a college-level
course. (She was studying to be a grade-school teacher, so it probably
wasn't as lame as it sounds.) There they actually taught things like
how to examine clothes in the store to determine how well made they are
and such. Sorta like economics.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Jim Charter wrote:
> I'll admit that maybe it's bizarre but what am I *so* guilty of?
I don't think anyone is accusing you of being guilty of anything. I'm
just wondering, if that's how you're trying to use a "credit" card, why
you don't switch to a debit card. That's what they're for.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Jim Charter wrote:
> Yeah I guess. But that's the reason? Since it's called a credit card
> account I can't keep a positive balance as a buffer?
That would defeat the point of it. As a "credit" card, it's a line of
credit to you. That is, a loan for you to access. What you're trying
to do is make payments on money you haven't borrowed yet.
Sounds to me like you'd be just fine with a debit card. Rather than
drawing against a line of credit (and thus increasing your debt every
time you use it), a debit card draws against the balance in a checking
account (reducing your capital instead).
...Chambers
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Jim Charter wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>
>>
>> More specifically, see what your grace period is and what your monthly
>> billing date is. Sign up for on-line bill paying at your bank.
>> Complain at them if it isn't free, or at least if it costs more than a
>> stamp.
>
>
> Yes I have to understand this grace period concept better. I was under
> the impression that at say midnight of the day of the due date which is
> I think the 15th of the month, if I happened to have an amount owed
> showing, then I would be charged interest.
I believe it's a law in the US that you have at least one billing cycle
before interest is charged. That is, if your bill comes every 30 days,
then they can't charge interest on something until 30 days after you've
charged it, no matter when your bill comes.
That's why so many people don't care about the interest rate on their
credit card: they pay off the balance every cycle, so they never get
charged any interest :)
...Chambers
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And lo on Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:50:18 +0100, Jim Henderson
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:28:52 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>>> Same thing with the majority of utility bills - the invoice comes
>>>> through and the payment drawn a few days later. In some case they'll
>>>> charge you an 'admin' fee for not doing it this way.
>>>>
>>> Yeah, I might try and get organized enough to try something like that.
>>> At least for bills. I didn't know you could do it for credit card.
>>
>> Well you can in the UK
>
> You can with some cards in the US as well. We do autopay for nearly
> everything (but we also look at the bills closely, too)
Well yeah, I don't understand people who don't bother.
> Got hung up *once* with this because the payment I put in ended up being
> less than the minimum (had to get the brakes done on the car - and we
> used the wrong card) and I got a call from their collections department
> the *day* after the bill was due. We got them to reverse the late fee
> and reinstate the 0% transfer balance, but it was really surprising they
> turned it over to collections so quickly. Discover Financial apparently
> is struggling.
Well the setup on my credit card is that the full amount is taken
automatically unless I change it, but I could set it up to take the
minimum only; again unless I change it. The only account I then have to
monitor money-wise is my bank-account.
> (Of course you wouldn't know anything about them in the UK, since
> virtually nobody accepts them over there)
Who now? :-) It's Visa and Mastercard here (for credit cards), unless it's
somewhere fancy that'll accept Amex. Heh read a piece from Amex justifying
their higher-then-others transaction charges, people with Amex spend more
so you make more profit then the el-cheapo cards; to put it another way
rich people use Amex so let them do so at your store. To put it yet
another way if you see a store accepting Amex expect all the prices to be
double :-P
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo on Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:37:02 +0100, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom>
did spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> that sort of maturity?
>
> Yep.
Well that's okay then ;-)
>> That's the bizarreness so you buy something on CC for $40 then when
>> it comes to pay you send them $50 so you have positive $10? The only
>> way I see this as a good thing is if the credit card pays interest on
>> the amount, which I know some do, but in that instance they wouldn't
>> be refunding it to you so why do it?
>>
>
> More like: keep +$400 in the account.
But you're not getting any interest on this money, as Darren said if
you're going to do this you might as well have a debit card which
shouldn't have any fees at all and pays you interest for a positive
balance.
> I'll admit that maybe it's bizarre but what am I *so* guilty of? Maybe
> of being a bit neurotic, maybe of just thinking in a different way? It
> keeps the money more tangible to me. The monthly due-date lockstep just
> trips me up that's all.
You're guilty of being bizzarre, which if it were a crime would mean I
(and the vast majority) would be locked up with you.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
>> Phil Cook wrote:
>
> But you're not getting any interest on this money, as Darren said if
> you're going to do this you might as well have a debit card which
> shouldn't have any fees at all and pays you interest for a positive
> balance.
>
Something to check into also. I was under the impression they charged a
fee per use. I do use it on occasion. Never really confirmed if a fee
was charged.
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Phil Cook wrote:
>
> You're guilty of being bizzarre, which if it were a crime would mean I
> (and the vast majority) would be locked up with you.
>
As you get older you get comfortable with it I guess. Another 'buffer'
situation for me involves the need to take a 'till' with me when I am
driving the taxi. When I first started I got caught unable to make
change a couple of times. This situation I found embarrassing even
humiliating. So I began to hoard 10's, 5's, and singles. Now I have a
'buffer' well in excess of 150 $10's, 200 $5's, and 500 singles,
jacketed and hoarded away in a box. I am finally comfortable and pay
less attention to the problem and no longer aggressively hoard. For
instance now at the end of a shift I will deposit my receipts across all
denominations instead of just the $20's. But the funny thing is,
certain techniques and disciplines I developed during my hoarding phase
became so integrated with my daily life that I continue them anyway. In
fact I now have to consciously 'prune' my hoard down from time to time.
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And lo on Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:33:15 +0100, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom>
did spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> But you're not getting any interest on this money, as Darren said if
>> you're going to do this you might as well have a debit card which
>> shouldn't have any fees at all and pays you interest for a positive
>> balance.
>>
>
> Something to check into also. I was under the impression they charged a
> fee per use. I do use it on occasion. Never really confirmed if a fee
> was charged.
The only time we in the UK tend to get charges is if we use our debit
cards abroad, saying that though some banks are advertising the fact that
they don't do this
>> You're guilty of being bizzarre, which if it were a crime would mean
>> I (and the vast majority) would be locked up with you.
>
> As you get older you get comfortable with it I guess. Another 'buffer'
> situation for me involves the need to take a 'till' with me when I am
> driving the taxi. When I first started I got caught unable to make
> change a couple of times. This situation I found embarrassing even
> humiliating. So I began to hoard 10's, 5's, and singles. Now I have a
> 'buffer' well in excess of 150 $10's, 200 $5's, and 500 singles,
> jacketed and hoarded away in a box. I am finally comfortable and pay
> less attention to the problem and no longer aggressively hoard. For
> instance now at the end of a shift I will deposit my receipts across all
> denominations instead of just the $20's. But the funny thing is,
> certain techniques and disciplines I developed during my hoarding phase
> became so integrated with my daily life that I continue them anyway. In
> fact I now have to consciously 'prune' my hoard down from time to time.
Just the way we work; we do something out of neccesity, repeat it, and
then find it turns to habit and we keep doing it long after the cause has
passed. I suppose it's the potential in the neural pathways, just easier
to follow the groove.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:12:48 +0100, St. wrote:
> Heh, they did in our school: Beans on toast or cheese straws.
>
> ("Home Economics" was our cooking lessons which they don't have
> now).
They did when I was in middle school as well (well, it wasn't called
"middle school" when I went through it). We had sewing and cooking
classes.
Jim
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On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:16:30 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>> You can with some cards in the US as well. We do autopay for nearly
>> everything (but we also look at the bills closely, too)
>
> Well yeah, I don't understand people who don't bother.
I think it's a matter of trust - I can understand that. It's also (for
us) a matter of checking the bills out carefully before autopay goes
through. Some things, though, like the mortgage payment, we know the
amount that it should be so if it varies that raises a red flag for us.
(And it hasn't varied).
>> Got hung up *once* with this because the payment I put in ended up
>> being less than the minimum (had to get the brakes done on the car -
>> and we used the wrong card) and I got a call from their collections
>> department the *day* after the bill was due. We got them to reverse
>> the late fee and reinstate the 0% transfer balance, but it was really
>> surprising they turned it over to collections so quickly. Discover
>> Financial apparently is struggling.
>
> Well the setup on my credit card is that the full amount is taken
> automatically unless I change it, but I could set it up to take the
> minimum only; again unless I change it. The only account I then have to
> monitor money-wise is my bank-account.
Yeah, if we were to do that, we'd bounce payments at the moment. My
parents worked things like you do, though - pay it off every month.
AFAIK, my mom still does that.
>> (Of course you wouldn't know anything about them in the UK, since
>> virtually nobody accepts them over there)
>
> Who now? :-) It's Visa and Mastercard here (for credit cards), unless
> it's somewhere fancy that'll accept Amex. Heh read a piece from Amex
> justifying their higher-then-others transaction charges, people with
> Amex spend more so you make more profit then the el-cheapo cards; to put
> it another way rich people use Amex so let them do so at your store. To
> put it yet another way if you see a store accepting Amex expect all the
> prices to be double :-P
Yeah, like I said. :-)
We did get an Amex card - I use it to the tune of a whopping $11.99 per
month for a credit monitoring service (which is handy as well, because
that tells me if anything hokey goes on in my accounts). But the reason
we got it was so we could establish some form of credit that would be
accepted when we move to the UK. Our Visa/Mastercard cards are usable
over there, sure, but from the research my wife did, if we want to open a
bank account, it's easier if we have an Amex account to show good payment
history. I don't recall all the details on why this worked better,
though.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> So, for example, on one of my Discover cards (don't ask - long story),
> I've got a 0% transfer rate, but I have to use the card twice a month to
> keep the 0% rate on what was transferred. But I get hit at something
> like 14% on those two usages, and those two usages continue to accrue
> interest until the 0% amount is paid off.
I'd recommend you check with a local Credit Union about getting a new
card; those terms are horrible.
Alternatively, if you live in WA, OR, ID or CA you can get a card at
Sterling Savings Bank with pretty good terms, as well.
...Chambers
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Darren New wrote:
> I always liked the ads that come with those checks: "Cash some in and
> spend it on fun stuff, or pay off bills, or just put it in the bank for
> a rainy day!" Yeah, right.
If you bring it to our bank, we'll ask you to take it somewhere else :)
Of the three banks I've worked at, two of them wouldn't ever accept a
CC check.
...Chambers
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Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Well, with the debit card, you've got a PIN associated with it, so I
>> don't quite understand the issue there.
>
> Not the ones that work just like a credit card, AFAIK. In any case, the
> legal system distinguishes. If someone's going to steal money, I want
> it to be the bank's money, with them proving I owe it to them, rather
> than my money, with me proving to the bank they need to give it back.
>
Just for the record, I help people with fraudulent use all the time, and
at least the bank I work at is pretty good about giving people
provisional credit*. They'll usually get it in less than 48 hours.
*That is, we assume that when you fill out a fraud report you're telling
the truth, so we deposit the missing money to your account. Once we've
finished our investigation, we either take the money back from you (if
you were just trying to work the system), or pursue it from the
criminals (if you were telling the truth). In practice, the system
works rather well. The only people I've ever heard complain about it
are the ones we proved were lying about the fraud.
...Chambers
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Chambers wrote:
> If you bring it to our bank, we'll ask you to take it somewhere else :)
> Of the three banks I've worked at, two of them wouldn't ever accept a
> CC check.
No, of course not. For the same reason I won't accept a debit card from
a bank that looks like a credit card. :-)
They're SOL if they take the "check" and then you reverse the charges.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:03:58 -0700, Chambers wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> So, for example, on one of my Discover cards (don't ask - long story),
>> I've got a 0% transfer rate, but I have to use the card twice a month
>> to keep the 0% rate on what was transferred. But I get hit at
>> something like 14% on those two usages, and those two usages continue
>> to accrue interest until the 0% amount is paid off.
>
> I'd recommend you check with a local Credit Union about getting a new
> card; those terms are horrible.
>
> Alternatively, if you live in WA, OR, ID or CA you can get a card at
> Sterling Savings Bank with pretty good terms, as well.
Oh, I've got terms on other cards that are better. We've more or less
decided to transfer the balance when the next good offer comes along.
Jim
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St. wrote:
> I hope they never get rid of cash
I hope they *do*! At least, I think we should do away with paper
currency. Use coins if you need to carry something around, but anything
more than a few dollars should be electronic.
Of course, I also think commercial banks and the Federal Reserve should
run 24/7 (and yes, I'm willing to work odd shifts due to that
scheduling). But for some reason, Bernanke hasn't called to ask my
advice yet, so they're still on the 9-5 business day...
...Chambers
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Chambers wrote:
> I hope they *do*! At least, I think we should do away with paper
> currency.
Why? So that you can be an Enemy Combatant and completely dicked over
by the government without even the slightest chance of being able to
hire a lawyer after?
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Darren New wrote:
> Depends how much you make, too, I guess. I'm pretty conservative with
> savings.
I'm having trouble parsing that...<G>
--
Aibohphobia: Fear of palindromes.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Darren New wrote:
> Chambers wrote:
>> I hope they *do*! At least, I think we should do away with paper
>> currency.
>
> Why? So that you can be an Enemy Combatant and completely dicked over
> by the government without even the slightest chance of being able to
> hire a lawyer after?
>
No, because paper money is filthy. Have you any idea the sheer number
of germs that are transmitted with paper money? Coins are much cleaner.
Besides, one of the purposes of government is to protect property. If
they were really as malicious as you're afraid of them being, the
revolution would come.
...Chambers
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Chambers wrote:
> No, because paper money is filthy.
Well, there is that. That's why I wash my hands after handling it.
> Besides, one of the purposes of government is to protect property.
Only some governments.
> If
> they were really as malicious as you're afraid of them being, the
> revolution would come.
Sure, just like Zimbabwe, right? Or (Godwin forbid) the victims of the
Holocaust who were clearly defended by the uprising of the majority of
the people involved at the time. (I.e., history suggests you're wrong.)
You only get the revolution if enough people with power are actually
getting screwed over. If you keep it down to maybe 5% of the population,
or keep it up to 95% of the population, you don't really get a very good
revolution.
But if you want to, say, shut up anyone who suggests that the government
could be improved by getting rid of the people currently in charge,
being able to take all their money away as well as track everyone who
ever gives them any money at all, well that's certainly a bonus.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Darren New wrote:
> But if you want to, say, shut up anyone who suggests that the government
> could be improved by getting rid of the people currently in charge,
> being able to take all their money away as well as track everyone who
> ever gives them any money at all, well that's certainly a bonus.
Money is an imaginary concept anyway. Do you really think that you
physically have all the money in your bank account? It already exists
solely in the form of a number in a computer somewhere (well, ok, a
number in *several* computers, thanks to redundancy :) ), so what's the
difference between the 1% of your net worth you carry with you being
cash versus some form of electronic payment?
...Chambers
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Chambers wrote:
> Money is an imaginary concept anyway.
No it's not. It's only fiat money that's imaginary.
> Do you really think that you
> physically have all the money in your bank account?
No. Indeed, I don't even have the "money" that's in my wallet in the
terms of green pieces of paper.
> so what's the
> difference between the 1% of your net worth you carry with you being
> cash versus some form of electronic payment?
That I can actually have as much of my net worth I want in the form of
anonymous untraceable bits of paper I can use to buy stuff with?
Say you're the wife of an abusive police officer. Wouldn't it be nice to
be able to hire a cab and buy a bus ticket without your abusive
homicidal husband being able to ask the bank where it is you're hiding?
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Chambers wrote:
> number in *several* computers, thanks to redundancy :) ), so what's the
> difference between the 1% of your net worth you carry with you being
> cash versus some form of electronic payment?
>
The differences are several I think.
There is not what amounts to a tax on commerce going straight into
financial institution coffers, if two people use cash as an interface.
There is with electronic, and if all money were electronic this would
amount to a tax from the 'bank' on all existing commerce. Further,
there would be little cost to adding tax apon tax apon tax. Tax money
for everybody with influence. Whoopee if you're one of them.
But if you are of the underclass, the demi-monde. You bear the burden.
Also, if you have little access to the establishment, if you are 'other'
and deemed undesireable, and cannot access the official mediums for
money exchange, without cash the sanctions against you would be even
more severe. With the availability of currency, those forced to inhabit
this shadow world could carry %100 of their 'net worth' as cash.
With solely electronic money, the ability for those in power to monitor
people is enhanced tremendously as was already mentioned, and along with
such control comes the ability to sanction others.
Now, there will always be a blackmarket and barter will always be used
to circumvent this because such a homogeous world as is implicit in the
vision of a cashless world can never exist.
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St. wrote:
> "Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message
> news:489b20cd$1@news.povray.org...
>
>> I now try to use the CC for online-only transactions. There was a long
>> while where I just kept it at home. I try to pay whatever I can in cash
>> now. Not to save money, but I got wary of various companies knowing my
>> shopping habits.
>
>
> That's exactly what I do. I hope they never get rid of cash, to me, it's
> the most important thing in life, (as far as paying something goes). I
> wouldn't feel safe if there wasn't any hard cash to use.
>
>> Paranoia, as Sabrina said.
>
> Yes, that's it.
>
> ~Steve~
>
>
I hope neither of you are using those 'customer benefit' cards that
everyone hands out. Or, at the least, carry 8 of them for the same store
with different invalid addresses under fake names.
And I wonder why my key chain gets heavy . . .
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Darren New wrote:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> Same thing with the majority of utility bills - the invoice comes
>> through and the payment drawn a few days later.
>
> While handy, it hasn't been available in the USA long enough for me to
> trust it to work reliably. :-) It only took them about 5 or 10 years
> before direct deposit failed to suck. No way am I letting them take it
> *out* without my interaction.
>
I have to agree. Besides, I find it much simpler to know that you always
have to manage that withdrawal of money at a certain time, rather then
remembering to do it the one time you charge too much. And the late fees
on a credit card are normally much kinder then the overdraft fees from
the bank.
The only time I've seen automated utility payment done right, was when
it automatically billed a credit card. Cash back bonus, ding the utility
company for the service fee, and have that extra month to pay it.
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On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:21:25 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>
>Say you're the wife of an abusive police officer. Wouldn't it be nice to
>be able to hire a cab and buy a bus ticket without your abusive
>homicidal husband being able to ask the bank where it is you're hiding?
There is also "skimming" to take into account.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skimming_%28credit_card_fraud%29#Skimming
Cash is anonymous and safe to use. Also it is quicker to get the transaction
through a till if the shop is using a dial up connection.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> There is also "skimming" to take into account.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skimming_%28credit_card_fraud%29#Skimming
> Cash is anonymous and safe to use. Also it is quicker to get the transaction
> through a till if the shop is using a dial up connection.
Yeah the speed/convenience does depend on circumstance. For instance it
cuts two ways with me. At the gas pump the card is faster and more
convenient than having to walk some cash over to the bullet-proof booth,
maybe wait in a line, overpay, then walk back, pump the gas, then back
over to the cashier to get any change. But in the taxi, waiting for a
customer to pay with a card slows things way down. Utterly frustrating
to loose a fare to another cab because you can't get your current people
out of the car fast enough. And then of course there is the wait to get
your receipts from the dispatcher at the end of the shift.
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On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:30:20 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
>Yeah the speed/convenience does depend on circumstance. For instance it
>cuts two ways with me. At the gas pump the card is faster and more
>convenient than having to walk some cash over to the bullet-proof booth,
>maybe wait in a line, overpay, then walk back, pump the gas, then back
>over to the cashier to get any change. But in the taxi, waiting for a
>customer to pay with a card slows things way down. Utterly frustrating
>to loose a fare to another cab because you can't get your current people
>out of the car fast enough. And then of course there is the wait to get
>your receipts from the dispatcher at the end of the shift.
Here we still fill up with fuel then pay. Some places do have card facilities at
the pumps though. "Pre-pay", it is a terrible world :(
My pet peeve is people who pay for "small change" shopping with a card. But then
I'm getting old and cantankerous ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> Here we still fill up with fuel then pay. Some places do have card facilities at
> the pumps though. "Pre-pay", it is a terrible world :(
Sadly, one pump-and-run can take the profit of an entire week from the
gas station.
> My pet peeve is people who pay for "small change" shopping with a card. But then
> I'm getting old and cantankerous ;)
I get annoyed at people who pay with a personal check for that sort of
stuff, myself. Altho I understand that's usually not their own fault.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> I hope neither of you are using those 'customer benefit' cards that
> everyone hands out. Or, at the least, carry 8 of them for the same store
> with different invalid addresses under fake names.
Valid point. I have one for one store. I've always felt like getting
another one with a fake address. Then I felt that would just be plain
dishonest. Then I end up deciding to just shop elsewhere.
--
When a toast with butter falls from your hand, it always falls on the
butter side.
When a cat falls from a height, it always lands on her feet.
If you tie a buttertoast over a cat with the butterside to the top, and
let both fall, what will face the floor, the butter or the feet?
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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"Sabrina Kilian" <"ykgp at vtSPAM.edu"> wrote in message
news:489e857d$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> "Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message
> I hope neither of you are using those 'customer benefit' cards that
> everyone hands out. Or, at the least, carry 8 of them for the same store
> with different invalid addresses under fake names.
Noooo thank you. :) Heard enough horror stories about them.
>
> And I wonder why my key chain gets heavy . . .
Why does it get heavy?
~Steve~
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And lo on Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:48:40 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake, saying:
> I get annoyed at people who pay with a personal check for that sort of
> stuff, myself. Altho I understand that's usually not their own fault.
Becoming less of a problem here. A lot of stores, especially petrol
stations, don't accept cheques anymore.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:28:39 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
> Becoming less of a problem here. A lot of stores, especially petrol
> stations, don't accept cheques anymore.
Yeah, it seems most restaurants here won't accept cheques either....
Jim
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On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:58:45 +0100, St. wrote:
> Heard enough horror stories about them.
Such as?
I used to work in IT in the food/drug retail industry (but I don't any
more). So I'm curious how people think that data's being used. I don't
have a complete picture myself, but what I've seen of it in the chain I
used to work in, I don't think it's anywhere as bad as people think.
Understanding customer spending habits allows a store to better stock up
on the things I need/want. In general, it would be impossible for a
large chain to use that data to track individual shopping habits - the
data is much more useful in determining things like aggregate products
purchased by the local population and a better understanding of how
customers use multiple stores in the same area.
I wonder what kind of stories Starbuck's data would give you, for
example....
Jim
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On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:13:53 -0400, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> The only time I've seen automated utility payment done right, was when
> it automatically billed a credit card. Cash back bonus, ding the utility
> company for the service fee, and have that extra month to pay it.
Where do you think the utility company gets the money to pay the service
fee?
We're all paying that fee for the customers who do it through an increase
in price....
Jim
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And lo on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:34:38 +0100, Jim Henderson
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:58:45 +0100, St. wrote:
>
>> Heard enough horror stories about them.
>
> Such as?
>
> I used to work in IT in the food/drug retail industry (but I don't any
> more). So I'm curious how people think that data's being used. I don't
> have a complete picture myself, but what I've seen of it in the chain I
> used to work in, I don't think it's anywhere as bad as people think.
>
> Understanding customer spending habits allows a store to better stock up
> on the things I need/want. In general, it would be impossible for a
> large chain to use that data to track individual shopping habits - the
> data is much more useful in determining things like aggregate products
> purchased by the local population and a better understanding of how
> customers use multiple stores in the same area.
Yet I get vouchers from the supermarket tailored to correspond to items
I've already purchased from there. I doubt anyone's picking over the data
individually more a case of X purchases within Y days of product type Z
all ranked with the top five being assigned corresponding vouchers.
It's also something to remember that such stores are branching out into
other areas such as insurance etc. and that some cards can be used in many
participating stores. In theory if I used a store card everywhere I could
the company could know what I eat and how often, what type of clothes I
buy, the books I read, the movies I watch, where and how often I buy
petrol. Sure it's all automated until someone in the government decides
they want to know more about a suspicious individual's habits.
> I wonder what kind of stories Starbuck's data would give you, for
> example....
At the very least it could reveal your work hours.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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